Hello All, this has been a very bad day for me.<P>I twlked to W today about the kids. If I was to feed them here or go to her house. She was very hate ful on the phone.<P>She said to go to her house and she would be there around 9:00pm(WHAT!!!). I said I had a Union Meeting tonight. She got mad and said " i thought you wanted to spend time with the kids". I do, but I dont want to watch them while she has sex with this OM. SHe said " you need to tell me these things. I said you didn't ell me you had plans,She said" I DONT HAVE TO TELL you [censored]!!!!".<P>I told her we needed to talk about things ie...The hate she has towards me(not signing), visitation(get it strait), Her bringing OM around MY kids(diffrent race, son said somthing to me today about it).<P>She said "ypu will just say the same thing you always do".<P>I tell her I love her and want to work this out.<P>My mom got on to me today, cause all i do is try to make her(W) believe in me. She says that i'm just obsest. how could you want to be with her when she has done what she did, and the way she treats you, how could you have sex with her now. I know she is tired of hearin it too.<P>This is so F^%ked up, I guess I will just give her the papers and let her go.<P>W told me today that she could never be with mw again. she said " do youremember how I begged you not to go? I went anyway. She also said "I do love you cause you are the father ofmy kids, but dont love you in the way a W should, I could never have sex with you again."<P>what to do now??????????<P>------------------<BR>brownphdt<P>

Oh, Brownphd, I am SOO sorry. I know how much you want your marriage.<P>Maybe a suggestion. She seems to negatively react to EVERYTHING you do. You might need to back off a little bit, for your sanity as well.<P>Ask her to work w/ you to come up w/ a regular visitation schedule that you both can stick with. Don't ask her to come home. Don't push at all. Enjoy your kids.<P>While she's in the middle of this muck, she's not going to be receptive to anything.<P>Hang in there, ok? It's a tough ride.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{Brownphd}}}}}}}}}}}}<BR>Lori

Do not sign the paper unless you want the divorce........! Remember, She is living a fantasy and her head is spinning...... Don't get to caught up in that. I wish I could of taken my own advice sooner. If you love her and want your marriage then be there for her.... Plan A stuff. <P>As far as Mom goes, She is just tired of seeing her baby hurt. She doesn't understand what your going through.... Don't sweat it......<P>Remember, DON"T SIGN UNLESS YOU WANT A DIVORCE!!!!!!!! <P>No matter how hopeless you feel, My thoughts are with you.....<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Brown,<BR>I think you stole some of my posts. It sounds like you are a few weeks behind were I am now. I' so sorry.<P>My mother said the same things.<P>I don't know what to tell you. You have to stop thinking about her as you will drive yourself crazy. You may want to think about anti-deps because it can get bad.<P>Try to keep yourself busy. Workout, try new hobbies, anything to take your mind off of things.<P>LEt me know if I can be of any other help. <BR>I'm praying for you.<P> Bob<P>

brownphd -- I'm very sorry my friend. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My mom got on to me today, cause all i do is try to make her(W) believe in me. She says that i'm just obsest. how could you want to be with her when she has done what she did, and the way she treats you<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The answer to this is very simple, and very very complicated . . . You love your W. There is nothing more that needs to be said.<P>lostva is probably right when she said that you might need to back off a little bit, for your sanity as well. There is an awful lot going on right now which, unfortunately, you have no control over. Backing off does not mean giving up though. It just means doing thing for you instead of for your W.<P>Tough love time here brownphd. . . This is what I would do, and please remember that this is only my opinion, and I have been known to be wrong more than once. . . <P>You do not want a divorce . . . Fact<BR>You want to reconcile with your W . . . Fact<BR>Your W is full of hate and venom right now. Nothing you do or say will be enough for her right now.<P>With this in mind. She continues to push you to sign the divorce papers, and you do not want this. Fine, take the divorce papers over to her. . .tear them up in front of her, and tell her that if she wants to be divorced, then she is going to have to do it all on her own. Period, end of story. You will not do anything to help her get divorced. Then go down and talk with your attorney. Have them help you get visitation set up. Protect yourself at all costs.<P>I'm really very sorry my friend, but it sounds to me like you only have two options right now. Back off, or fight for your rights. Neither option is ideal, I realize this, but your going to end up driving yourself nuts otherwise.<P>I am praying for you, your children and your W.<P>God Bless<BR>

Hi Brown,<P>everyday, this rollercoaster gets faster and faster doesn't it.?<P>I have been saying (suggesting) to you for a while now - to give her space.<P>She is seeing you loving those kids, loving her, and wanting the marriage again.<BR>When she has her 'second' of clarity - she sees that. But she has so few 'seconds' of clarity.<BR>She is still in la-la land, and most of the time, not thinking straight, if she's even thinking at all.<P>Of course you're obsessed - I think we all are. We want our spouses back, the old spouses that we know - these OP have no idea what our lovely H/W's are really like. <P>I think the suggestion of tearing the divorce papers up in front of her is a good idea - you're not exactly saying no, but she's going to have to do it all herself. Then don't discuss it again with her. If she brings it up - say to her "you know how I feel about that." end of story.<P>You have done so many good, beautiful things. Don't let her make you cross, and think that it's all for nothing. Not at this stage anyway.<P>I think a firm schedule where visitation is concerned is a good idea. You both need to know where you stand where that is concerned, and the children need to be protected at all costs. I know you have your children's best interests at heart - do it for their sake.<P>Your Mum is concerned about you, and for you. That's a Mummy's job. And no matter how old you are - it never stops. Mum's never stop being Mum's.<P>An example - I have signed cheques for millions of dollars in a previous job, been a purser with an airline and gone through a bomb scare, built and run my own home, paid all my bills on time, had 2 children, etc etc <P>BUT<P>now I'm going through this mess with my H, my mother and father think I can't tie my own shoelaces. !!!!!!!!!<P>They are giving me advice on how to budget, how to talk to men (for god's sake), what to say to my H, (and what not to say) !!!!!!!<P>The list and advice goes on and on and on.....<P>My point is - they, you, and I will never stop being parents. And one day, when your baby is going thru something awful, or my baby is, WE WILL be exactly the same. OH MY GOD - I'M JUST LIKE MY MOTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>Let her be there for you, and cut her a little slack. She says these things out of love and concern - but she doesn't really know what you're going thru. Most of our parents probably don't.<P>Give your W the space she needs - and keep letting her see the wonderful you, the caring you, and the loving you.<P>Jo

I don't think that it is obsession, you love your W & kids there's nothing wrong with that.<P>When my W was having here affairs she told me similar things (ie. "I still love U just not the way a wife should" ect.)<P>I started wondering the same things "am I obsessed", "what is wrong with me, why do I still keep trying"<P>I was lucky my W came back to me before I left the state.<P>Only you can decide when enough is enough. With me it was when I felt I was losing to much of myself, trying to keep us together and getting nothing back in return.<P>I really hope things will work out for you.<P>Good luck,<BR>Jason

Iwould love to reply , but I'm drunk. I will read these replys tomorrow.<P>SORRY, I HAVE ZTO GET TO BED<P>------------------<BR>brownphdt<P>

Rest well my friend. I'll be here tomorrow to check on you.<P>God Bless

HI brownphd,<BR> I've read here that anger is really guilt. Maybe you being "there" all the time is killing her with guilt?<BR> Back off. Try the 180 thing from Marriage Busters. What have you got to lose.<BR> I told my W that I didn't want to talk the bid "D" until AFTER the holidays. This may work for you. STALL! The bubble may break.<P> In the meantime. Back off and re-group. 180 her. My sister said to me once, "When some guy kisses my A** too much, I have a hard time thinking about kissing him!!!" <BR> GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK

HI, I only got a second. I'm 2 hrs late for work.<P>I gave the papers to her lastnight, and had a long talk. Well I talked and told hert I did not want a response. I told her how I felt about her and the kids, and how I have learned things to be better to her and.(emotional needs). she did listen and said nothing. She looked said.<P>I told her as I was leaving " I have been told if you love somthing let it go." and I did. I asked for a hug, she said no. <P>I'm not gonna call her and see what happens. I also told her that I'm her for her and I mean this.<P>Sorry I have to leave.<P>------------------<BR>brownphdt<P>

I feel a little better today. I guess. <P>after gining her the papers. I dont know what will happen now.<P>------------------<BR>brownphdt<P>

brownphd,<P>Did you sign the papers or just give them back unsigned???? I couldn't tell from your posts....<P>Roll Me Away<BR><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

The are actually temp. orders, and they are singed<P>------------------<BR>brownphdt<P>

I'm sorry Brownphd.....<P>I wish I was here last nite before you went to her and would have talked to you......I was embroiled in my own stupid nonsense and might have been able to talk it through with you.....I feel terrible!!<P>All I can do is talk to you now....<P>So....why did you sign and what are your thoughts now? Did you leave a schedule set for your time with the kids? I don't quite understand how you left it with her......<P>What are Temp orders? Do you have a lawyer?<P>Hang on....it isn't over, by any means!!!<P><BR>HUGS,<P>Sheba<P>

SHEBA I left her after tellinhg her how I feel about her. <P>I still want her back, I told her that I will not talk to her about this anymore. I said I will sit back and let this relationship run its course. I also told her that when and if it dont work out I will be waiting for her.<P>Me not giving her the papers was making her madder at me. She said she wants this so she dont feel so guilty with him, cause we are still married. I told her if this is the key to her happyness then here they are.<P>I feel alright i guess, nothing has changed. she is still not her.<P>TEMP. oreders are temporary custody and child support orders. They have told me when I could get the kids. this during the week is our agreement<P>I do not have a lawyer, cost to much money. we dont have anything any way. house is already gone. we kept the cars. <P>------------------<BR>brownphdt<P>

Hi Brownphd -<P>OK...so does that mean that you will have the kids on the days you have said already? What are they...Tuesday, Thursday and weekends? or everyother weekend.....<P>Are you feeling strong enough to be able to do this? I know how much you want to help her!! I think that you can do it and we will help!!! It's gonna be real hard though.....you have to fight the craving!!!<P>I am sad about you signing, but am very glad that you talked to her and laid out your feelings. Now is when you have to stick to it though....you have to be very strong and no more contacting her all the time!!!<P>This may be a very good thing...I have felt that she was starting to use you and that isn't a good thing...she could have gotten stuck in that for a while!<P>Now she will have to see just how hard it will be on herself - both physically and mentally - to be so independent of you....and yes, you will see it being hard and will want to jump to help.<P>YOU WILL NOT do that though!!!!!<P>You need to take a breather from the ups and downs of your emotions....time to get some sort of "normalcy" back into your life!!! That's good though!!! We're supposed to be strong, steady and safe!!!! <P>You are headed in the right direction, Brown.....sit back and let the stress subside a bit.<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba

SHEBA I have some more to add.<P>I'm supposed to get the kids tomorrow. I have something to do that evening. I called her at work and tried to tell her. She got mad. I asked what wa wrong she said alot, she is having a bad day. I told her to call me tonight. she didnt so i called her. I told her what I had to do, she just said alright.<P>She acts as if she dosent want to talk to me now. although it may just be me.<P>I just act chipper when I talk to her. I told her to try and have a nice day and smile. she just said alright. She says that alot.<P>Also in the enelope I left the poems I wrote for her. I told her they were in there. i asked if she read them she said yes. I asked what she thought. she replied I'm trying to put the kids to bed. SOOORRRYYY<P>------------------<BR>brownphdt<P>

Sheba we wre posting at the same time. it wont be hard on her she has this other man and men.<P>She does only call when she needs somthing though. IT IS HARD cause I love to see her, and the kids every second I can.<P>I guess this is a kinda sorta PLAN B????<P> <P>------------------<BR>brownphdt<P>

No - I wouldn't call it Plan B...I think it's Plan A with some self control!!!<P>You HAVE to stop asking her how she is feeling all the time Brown!!! What do you expect her to say? She is not going to say "Oh, thank you for asking now come home!!" when you ask her all the time!!!<P>Give her space...forget these "men" if that's what you call them!!! I, personally, think that they are not MEN at all!! She will see that eventually! But she won't want to see it if you are there for her all the time....then it doesn't matter about the MAN part (you do that part) and she will fool herself into thinking that all this other attention is something "real"!!<P>Let her discover that a lazy beer guzzling trucker who cheats on his wife and uses her washing machine is not the be all and end all - if you know what I mean!!!<P>I think with her being in this confused and fantasy state of mind....you set yourself up to be kicked when you keep asking her things...like with the poems!! Why can't you just let her say something when she is ready? Remember the EMail thing...you asked right away and she responded badly. When you two talked last week - she told you it made her cry, right? See - she is trying to be this tough independent - "don't have to answer to anyone" woman when deep inside she is just confused and scared.<P>Let her figure it out....she probably doesn't know how she feels about the poems yet!!!<P>Do you understand why it's not good to keep asking things? It's not good for her and not good for you either....just let it flow for a while!!<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba