Hello All,<BR>For those of you that don't know my story it is much like all the others.<BR>H cheated with co-worker...<BR>Upon D I threw him out...<BR>H trapes around with OW for 6 months...<BR>H still saw me too...<BR>H treated me like dirt...<BR>H put me through hell...<BR>H started missing me...<BR>OW put H through hell...<BR>I stood by H & picked up the pieces...<BR>H and I got back together.<P>There are all sorts of questions that I wanted to know the answers to during this whole ordeal. Things that I just don't think that you understand until well past the end of the affair.<P>I remember when I stayed on this board day and night, posting and posting and posting. In hopes that someone would tell me what I wanted to hear but it was rarely enough or what I thought I needed.<P>What did I need? My H I thought, but I was wrong. What I needed was me back, the part of me that was lost long before my H's affairs.<P>Like I said we are back together and for the most part I think everything is pretty good but I won't lie to you... there are days that I wish that we hadn't gotten back together and I guess that I have been having quite a few of them here lately.<P>It's been a little over a year since H and I reconciled and in the beginning it was great and I thought that I had what I wanted, I was proud of myself for winning this battle and saving my family. But now there are times that I wonder what my life would've been like if we hadn't reconciled?<P>While we were apart, I used to remember all of the good things or at least what I thought were good things, but now I don't see that many good things, mostly I wonder what the hell was I thinking then? I had my chance not to be treated like this anymore and I threw it away.<P>Does my H abuse me physically? NO, he doesn't. Does he abuse me mentally or emotionally? YES, he does. Does my H take me for granted? YES, again.<P>He is a good man, but there was someone that asked me when we were separated, what if he does come back and afterwards you decide that you don't want him? Then what? Of course, at the time I thought that was absolutely absurd! Now I wonder.<P>Maybe I did live in a fantasy world myself? Seeing only what I wanted to see and blocking out alot of reality myself. I know I did. But here I am still struggleing to have the type of love that I have always dreamed of, and still going without.<P>Its funny, my H told me that he couldn't be the type of man that I wanted him to be but I wouldn't here of it... I knew he could if he would only try. And I still believe that but the problem is that he doesn't want to be.<P>It's not like I ask for alot, I just want to feel loved and like I am the only woman in the world for him. I want to have fun with him the way we used to. And I would like to feel as if he is proud of me. I would like for him to put his arm around me sometimes, hold my hand, be tender and loving sometimes; but that is like asking for the moon.<P>I am in one heck of a mood today I know. I don't always feel quite this bad... I sort of have days that are worse than others and then I have days that aren't so bad.<P>Perfect example....<P>A couple of weeks ago I wanted to go camping, I mentioned to him how much I would love to go camping for the weekend on a Tuesday, he said no that he didn't want to or feel like it, with a rather scrunched up face. You'd a thought he'd taken a swig of vinegar.<BR>But on Friday afternoon around 6pm, his brother calls and says hey we're going camping, wanna go? Well, hell yes he wanted to go and we had about 1 hr. to get ready, packed, and out the door. <BR>Well, I wasn't particularlly fond of the idea since there was so much to do in so little time but he was the one that would love to go this time.<BR>I guess the problem I have is that when I wanted to go... he didn't want to go with me, but when his brother called he did want to go with him.<P>That is pretty much how everything is, when it comes to me he would rather not. When it comes to anyone else... Why hell yes, let's go. If we go somewhere together just ourselves, we have a miserable and boring time. If someone else is with us well then we have a good time. But as far as the two of us... forget it.<P>I am no fun to him and I guess I am starting to feel the same. I am just here to cook, clean, take care of the children, run the errands, do the laundry, mow the grass and be his little bed fella when he wants it. So I am a maid, a nanny, a chef, a gopher and a whore. Sure is my idea of a good relationship.<P>What happened to the days when we looked forward to having a babysitter, or the time after the children went to bed, or a night out together. We haven't had a night out together just the 2 of us in a year.<P>Maybe it is unrealistic to think that after you've been together for 13 yrs. that you should be having some fun together. But I will be damned if I want to feel like an old foggy that is too old to feel froggy and leap.<P>Things could be worse I guess but I will tell you one thing... they sure as hell could be alot better too.<P>So there is my update, sorry so long but for those of you who know me... you know how I can be sometimes.<P>Genie

Hi Genie -<P>So glad to see an update from you even though I had hoped you would be faring better than this sounds....<P>I wanted to 2nd you comment about finding the old "you" was really what you needed.....THIS IS SO TRUE!!!!!<P>I have to ask you.....have you and H put any of the Harley tools into play in this "recovery"? If not - how come? These are needed to fortify the rebuilding of the marriage in a different atmosphere than you both experienced previously. Otherwise it will be the same old, same old.....<P>I understand that he may not want to contribute.....but that is not the correct foundation for recovery...why bother then? <P>This question has been bothering me for awhile from seeing so many "get back together" around here but yet they have not implemented the "Four Rules"...<P>I am sure that quite a few WS's don't want to "learn, etc"....but without these tools things can't change.<P>I often wonder HOW one is to introduce them if their spouse in not open enough to follow along......<P>I think that there should be more coverage of this phase.....other than "you both should go by the 4 rules", <P>Is this the problem in your situation? <P>Perhaps K (or anyone else who has been successful at getting these rules implemented can lend a hand on this hurdle!!!!!<P>I am sorry that it isn't yet what you want it to be Genie....you are such a caring and smart woman who has a gift of explaining things so well for benefit of other's understanding. I only wish I had the answers to give you on how to get H to move his a$$ and get on the bandwagon!!!!<P>Have you ever spoken with Harley? (Sorry, I forget more than I retain lately!!! LOL!!) Perhaps he can guide you in the best approach with H on the rules?<P>BIG HUGS and I will say prayers for this for you and H,<P>Sheba<BR>

Sheba,<BR>Thanks for your reply. I was beginning to feel a little stupid for posting earlier but reading your reply to my post helped me get a new perspective on what is definately a problem. I guess before I was doing alot of venting but I was venting about things that do bother me a great deal. And that in itself is a very big problem.<P>As far as your questions, its like this. No my H and I have not implemented the 4 rules or anything else really. I have tried to get him to do many things to help our relationship, so that we both could be better friends and lovers; but nothing that I have tried has been met with the least amount of effort on his part.<P>I have tried to go to marriage counselling... he went twice and refused to go back anymore. I got a bunch of tapes on marriage. Actually it was a seminar on the keys to marriage. It contained 12 tapes, he watched 1. I have tried to implement the techniques here at MB, but as far as we got was the emotional needs questionaire and that also seemed one-sided.<P>I hate the way that this makes my H sound but I know that it isn't very good, but I don't want to make excuses for him anymore either. The fact of the matter is that I do just about all the work in this marriage, I reap few rewards, and I am really starting to resent that.<P>What to do about it though? That is the million dollar question! Don't get me wrong, my H isn't a terrible person, actually he is a very good person. Sometimes I just can't help but wonder if we will ever be truly "in love" again? I really miss how that feels.<P>Thanks again Sheba, I appreciate your reply, you gave me something to really think about. <P>Genie

Hey "Coach"...<P>I can't tell you how excited I was when I saw your name on the board, but then...<P>I can't add much nuts and bolts stuff to what Sheba did. She surmised the situation nicely...or...I think succinctly is a better word.<P>I can really feel your anguish through your words. I wish I could send you some of my peace through cyber space.<P>I honestly don't what to tell you...or if even I should do something other than commiserate through this bulliten board...<P>I will pray that God gives you the peace you are searching for. <P>I do believe happiness and misery are are a choice as I stated in my thread on the other board. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/000555.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/000555.html</A> <P>Hang in there dear frind keep praying and the answers will come...It may not be what you expect but they will come.<P>E-mail if you want my addy is the same.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Genie}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR><P>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.

Hello G,<P>You have been posting this way for a while but then again there is the "Look What Wonderful Thing He Did!" post as well.<P>You ARE so far removed from that person who first posted here, and it is all you, nothing to do with him.<P>As smug as this sounds, you DID win that battle and it was important for you to do, for a ton of reasons. As opposed to being smacked in the face with infidelity and a financial crisis you are now strong enough to make some choices based on "reality". <P>What is happening now or re-happening really sucks. So, what changes or choices are you going to next? How about you think of some things and run them by the braintrust? <P>I think Sheba's suggestion of following some MB guidelines is worth a try. Would it be possible to talk with Harley? You may have to do this by yourself but, so what? You made it this far, why not try just a little bit more?<P>I am using MB and Harley for my current, to-soon rebound marriage It really can be quite nice. Give it a shot German Queen.<P>Catch you later.<BR>V

WilliamJ,<BR>It seems strange hearing from you but nice at the same time. <BR>Sheba did pretty much hit the nail on the head. Makes me realize that I have somethings to defiinately think about instead of just pondering on from time to time.<BR>Hope everything is well in your corner of the world. I think it is your turn to do some e-mailing...lol.<P>V...<BR>My dear old friend, where have you been? I haven't heard from you since your niece IM'd me...lol , that was funny. Drop me a line when you get a chance. <P>Oh listen guys, I am ok guess I just need to think some things over. I feel quite torn right now. I love him but so much has happened that its just not the same. Our relationship does need help but I don't know what to do. <P>Maybe I am having one of my own little mid-life thing-a-ma-jiggies, since 30 is coming. Funny I don't feel 30... its more like 80...lol. <P>I believe in marriage and the whole till death do you part thing but I'd like to enjoy life with someone while I am still able to enjoy it. I am not old and I am tired of feeling like I am. <P>I thought that is why we got married? Because we wanted to spend the rest of our lives together because we liked/loved being together? Now I just feel like I am just the maid, nanny, ect....<P>Can't help but ask myself, why things had to change so much from the way it was in the beginning? Those were some fantastic times! <P>I just wish I had a little bit of that back again.<P>I just don't know how to communicate with someone that doesn't want to communicate. And I don't know how to make things easier or better without a certain amount of help from him.<P>But....<P><B>{{{{{THANKS}}}}}}}</B><P>Genie

Genie,<P>I have a bit of insomnia tonight...<P>30 huh ?<P>I'll be 32 next month, and yesterday ar work I had a distrubing realisation. Music from our generation is now on the oldies station here....Growing up stinks sometimes...<P>I'll write this weeke end.<P>B

G,<P>Embarassed about the niece thing, but here. And, a PUBLIC APOLOGY on Genie's thread:<P>If it appears that I IM'd anyone with the term "butt monkey" I am sorry. I allowed my niece to use the computer and she decided to offend everyone on my buddy list. Sorry.<P>Now for you ... I thought this was a blip in the grand scheme. Way back when you had posted that the two of you were going out on Friday nites as a "rule". Is that still happening? I still don't think going to a bar was a great idea but heck, it was something. You still need to do things, just the two of you. I'm sorry he acts like a total jerk about it but, don't give him a choice. How about a nice dinner and some mini-golf? Have some fun again and remind him. Maybe this will open the door for some intimate talking?<P>Finally 30, ha ha ha !! You know, they say women peak at about 32-33. It's far from over for you now c'mon.<P>WilliamJ,<P>PinkFloyd, Yes, Kinks .... all on the oldies station here. Let me be old then, man. Korn, Limp Biscuit ....what is that crap anyway?

Genie,<P>When I first read your post, I didn't have a chance to reply. It's amazing I can write at all with two young ones.<P>I came back and read Sheba had said exactly what I was thinking, and probably better too.<P>It is a shame there is not more recovery talk on the site. Even on the recovery board.<P>Sheba asked for some recovery successes.<P>Anyway, we started the New Year with a pledge to each other to live by the four rules and I think that is when recovery really began for us.<P>My h needed some convincing too. I think it took the realization that the only way he will be in an in-love marriage is to do his part in creating it, and Jennifer Harley took much of our first sessions convincing him.<P>These truly are principles to live by, but it is very difficult to take them from a general principle in a book to changing our behavior without a coach.<P>She kept us accountable. We had to do the questionnaires by the next call. We had to develop plans to meet each other's needs and fax them to her and report in each time.<P>My h did things I did not agree to for years but I ALLOWED IT. Plan A is designed to help him out of the fog and get the ball rolling, but at some point it has to be a two way street to make a great marriage.<P>We did not become saints overnight, but the dynamics of the relationship changed forever.<P>He still does inconsiderate things and I have emotional outbursts, but not often, and we recognize what is happening right away.<P>He doesn't make any decisions without our reaching an enthusiastic agreement. This is actually very hard and time consuming as it entails really understanding each other, but it is key! I don't either, but that was not the problem in our case.<P>Actually, dear, life begins at 40 and I have one more year to get ready. <P><P>------------------<BR>Cindy

Hi Genie -<P>Glad I could help with your thoughts, what do you think about calling the Harleys?<P>Schizzo - Thanks for sharing....could I ask you how you got your H to talk to Jennifer? That seems to be the biggy!!!<P>Thanks and Hugs,<P>Sheba<P>PS - Hi WilliamJ and InShock!!

I want to thank all of you for your replies, I really do appreciate them.<P>As far as talking to the Harleys, I talked to Steve once on the radio show but that has been the extent of it.<P>Its like I said before, once we got back together we did the emotional needs questionaire and he promised to read the SAA book and follow the techniques but no such luck.<P>The other day I felt alot of contempt for my H, alot of resentment and alot of anger and disgust. Today, I feel alot of confusion.<BR>But I hope I will have plenty of time to think some things over since my H is away on business for a few days.<P>The funny thing is... you know that saying "out of the mouth of babes"? Well, our daughter got me the other day real good. She was asking me about her grand-father, actually her step-grand-father, my stepdad. She was trying to figure this whole step-parent thing out. <P>She then asked me if she would ever have a step-father or a step-mother? I replied that I didn't know. She then asked if her father and I would have to get divorced and re-married for that to be true? I told her yes. She then started telling me about a friend at school that has a new step-father and that she didn't like to see someone else kissing her mother. KAABLAMMM!!! It hit me.<P>I guess I was somewhat caught up in me and as much as I hate to admit it, wasn't thinking about my kids and how something would affect them to much. Bad mommy!<P>HOw do you re-introduce these methods or any for that matter when any conversation or communication seems to be a LB? Yes I am a talker, my H is not. We never seem to be able to come to terms with anything or finish a conversation about anything. Then when things are left so unresolved and they come back up later.... he acts disgusted. <P>How do you get a man to listen and take some things seriously. How can you break out of that rut of running in place, beating your head against a brick wall and getting nowhere?<P>There are somethings that I feel still need to be worked out but trying to talk to him about them is like asking him to lie still for a root canal.<P>Any suggestions would be appreciated.<P>Genie

Genie,<P>Have you read Divorce Busting or How one of you can bring the 2 of you together? Both of them are full of ideas of how you can change your behavoir to affect your spouses. Maybe you could find something you could do to affect a change in him.<P>Lora

Lora,<BR>I read Divorce Busting about 1 1/2 yrs. ago and have even recommended it myself. I think I will pull it out and take another look at it though. Thanks for the idea. <P>Genie<BR>