I realize that many of you do not know me or my story. I also know that there are many "old timers" out there who are not only still posting, but I imagine there are many others who are still lurking.<P>If anyone, "relative" newbee or "old timer" has any thought or comments . . .I welcome them.<P>I really haven't posted much in the last 6 months or so. There are many reasons for this, but the most preve;ent reason was simply a feeling that I didn't belong here any longer.<P>A friend from work has been going through some difficult times with her H. My W and I have both offered her what ever support she may need. A week or so ago, we went over to this friends house to keep her company because her H felt he needed to go out on his own that night.<P>I had told this friend about this forum several months before, and while we were visiting we starting talking about MB. I offered to come to the site and print out the Emotional Needs questionares for her.<P>When we got home that night, I came to the site, and decided that I would print out Dr. H's basic concepts as well. I spent about 90 minutes that night printing everything out. The next day I found a binder around the house that I could place everything in and thena few days later my W gave the binder to this friend.<P>Well today this friend and I drove to work together, and had a chance to talk both to and from work. We talked about her situation and ended up discussing how my W and I are doing . . . This friend knows a great deal about our past so I wasn't having a conversation which would effect the relationship my W has with this friend.<P>We ended our conversation by talking about a subject which has been discussed on this forum many times in the past. . .Long term results and marriage survival after infidelity. I made a comment at one point that for the most part my W and I are doing very well. but that there are times when I truly feel like I am back at the very beginning again.<P>Our D has been visting her grandparents for the past week, and tomorrow (oops today, since it's after midnight here) my W and D were supposed to meet with my MIL to go shopping for dresses to be worn at the wedding of one of my SIL's. Apparently this SIL talked with my W today and wanted her to come down tonight instead of tomorrow. (We live about 60 miles away.) My W went ahead and went down after we finshed eating dinner.<P>Anyway, I was sitting watching TV and decided that I wanted to find some of the papers and notes I written when the problems between my W and I first got out of hand.<P>I did not find what I was actually looking for, but did find some things that I had sort of pushed to the back of my mind. It was in going through these things, that I found myself in a position of needing to create this post. . . <P>a short history is probably necessary for the "newbee's" to catch up. . .<P>In Feb 1998 my W walked out while I was at work one night. She took our D, who was four at the time, and disappeared. The next day she filed a restraining order against me.<P>I found out much later, and did not realize the time-frames until tonight, that 2 months and 3 days later my W made a very conscience descion to have an affair with a co-worker.<P>About two months later my W tried to have me arrested. Then about two months after that we finally reached a point where we were able to reconcile.<P>About four months later, I discovered that my W was involved in MANY internet / Email affairs. This almost destroyed the progress we had made thus far.<P>About a month or so later, I discovered my W's physical affair.<P>It was shortly after this that I discovered this forum. . .<P>It's been almost 29 months to the day since all of this began . . . I still have so many questions which have not been answered. Most of them really do not involve the physical affair, though some do. My W has, in my opinion, stopped all efforts at getting past this. She is either unwilling or unable to answer those questions which still remain.<P>I have reached the point, where I fear that I will never be able to obtain full closure. I fear that those behaviors which help lead our marriage to near destruction are beginning to resurface. I can feel the pain and anger beginning to creep back in to me and <B>quite frankly it scares the hell out of me.</B> I feel tears sliding down my cheeks again. I feel doubts that I believed were long gone coming back.<P>Is everything unravelling? Am I losing my sanity? Am I losing my W?

Empty Shell:<P>I think my eyes are too tired to help anyone else tonight, since I've been crying myself, but I will send your post to the top so that it will get everyone's attention in the morning.<P>This happened to me after the affair ended. H came back, we worked on marriage, but something evidently was still not resolved and he left again for a second and last time in May. Until what is wrong with a marriage is addressed there really can be no healing...it's not enough to just get back together and continue in the same old ways.<BR>Of course back then I wasn't aware of the MB principles, so I had no opportunity to impliment them. <P>I assume you did use the principles during your reconciliation. Did you keep it up, or did you stop trying so hard when things got a little better and the hurting eased a little? They say you need to continuously be working on your marriage, but so many of us just slack off because so much is going on. Maybe it's just time to tune in again and start getting things back on tract.<P>Well, some folks with better help will probably be by in the morning, so I'll get myself to bed and wish you some good answers to your questions...answers from some more experienced MB'ers then me.<P>Buffy

ES,<BR>Part of what you are experiencing in my opinion is something similar to post traumatic stress disorder - if there is such a thing as this after infidelity.<P>Triggers: Your wife is with her family. I realize from the past history that her family played an integral part of your wife's decision to hurt you, and have an affair. So, #1, the situation tonight is relative to those triggers - your wife is out of the home, away from you, and with family.<P>#2. You revisited the pain, through the writings. Perhaps you feel some sort of "false" control through anger from "reliving" by re-reading. I know you are angry. But, I think that your anger is post traumatic, and not exactly relative to what is REALISTICALLY happening now.<P>You know I am a Christian. So, how I interpret and my opinion is relative to my Christianity. To me, this is like an attack from the enemy, that wants you to get caught up in anger over the past. Whenever I get angry about the past, or fearful of the future - it is from the enemy. I am saying this because of Bible knowledge. My anger is justifiable, but not applicable to the (for example) present situation. I hope that made sense.<P>God says: Since I believe that Christ died for me, I should also believe that I have died to the old life I used to live. Lesson: What happened is in the past, and I must not live in the past.<P>God says: I don't give you a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind. Lesson: Do not be fearful. If I am, it isn't from God.<P>On Pulling Down thoughts & imaginations: 2 Corinthians 10:3 Where impure thoughts come from Galations 5:22<P>I have a physical/mental exercise that I have tried before, and seemed to work. First of all, I recognize the thought that I have - that is counterproductive to the glory of God... (like fear, or living in the past.) And I reach my hand up to my head and say to myself "that is an impure thought, that does not glorify God." And I say that I rebuke the impure thought in the name of Jesus, and then I say that my mind shall have thoughts that are obedient to my Lord, and glorifies Christ.<P>I have to first recognize the wrong thought, and then decide to get rid of it, and I use the strongest method I know to do it, the name of Jesus.<P>That is my opinion, my method, and I sure hope some of this helps you.<P>said a prayer for you, old friend.....<BR>TnT<P>

buffy -- <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I assume you did use the principles during your reconciliation. Did you keep it up, or did you stop trying so hard when things got a little better and the hurting eased a little? They say you need to continuously be working on your marriage, but so many of us just slack off because so much is going on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You're right, I did and like you I didn't know about MB at that time. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Until what is wrong with a marriage is addressed there really can be no healing...it's not enough to just get back together and continue in the same old ways.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You are correct in this as well. For the most part I thought we did have the majority of the issues addressed with. Unfortunately in order for everything to be addressed, you must be able to "put things in their proper place." I am the type of person who has to understand everything. I find it very hard ot take things at face value. As the saying goes, I see things in "Black and White" I don't function very well in a lot of "Grey" areas. I still have an awful lot of questions concerning our situation, and I am reaching the point, I think, where I will never recieve the answers I need.<P>Thank you buffy for taking the time to reply to me.<P>TNT -- My friend, thank you very much for replying. You and I have so much in common on this forum, I am very glad that you are around. You seem to remember details about me which I didn't relay in this thread, and I think you may be right in your interpretation. It's just amazing to me that I can still have such vivid memories after so long, and after as much progress as I think my W and I have made.<P>I do know your religious beliefs, and respect them greatly. This to may be part of my dilemma . . . I am still trying to sort out a lot of things related to religion as a result of EVERYTHING which has happened in my life. In fact the friend from work, mentioned above, has befriended my W and the two of them go to church meetings most every week. I have gone once, but my work schedule makes it difficult. The pastor at this church has offered to talk with me a couple of times, and I think he knows some of my past from my W and my friend, but I do not know how much he really knows. I haven't really decided if I am ready to talk with him yet, but I am close.<P>Thank you again TNT and thank you very much for the prayers.

I know how hard it is to feel that you may never get the answers you desire. My H lied to me so much after the discovery that I will never feel that he really came forward with all the details. I find this very hard to live with.<P>TNT is right. I think old wounds are being triggered by reading old notes and making more connections that you did not make previously. Try to focus on what is happening now rather then dwelling on the past. <P>If it were me, I think I would tell my spouse about the new connections you have made. Tell her how it hurts you that she did not share this with you but try not to dwell on it.<P>I think is is more important to ask yourself how your wife feels about you now. How honorable you sense her intentions are in recommitting and moving forward? How do you think she would act today given the same set of circumstances that led to the affair? Do you think she has confronted the issues in her heart or are you only questioning her because you took the off ramp to your past by reading those notes?<P>If she can not really confront the issues and is keeping information from you that would give you closure than you do have a problem. Try to impress this on her. <BR> <BR>Your wife may belive that with holding the answers you need is in your best interest. Maybe you can find a way to explain to her that you find her lack of information a road block to your recovery.<P>Acacia

No doubt about it, in my mind. It was those notes bringing back that old pain. Brings that gut-wrenching ache right back to the surface. <P>As you know, my H and I have been in recovery now for 2 1/2 years. Things are going great,,better than I would have ever hoped. However, many months ago I ran into some items that were my proof of the affair. H was not home. There had been a previous discussion and my H and I disagreed on a statement he had made. I made the mistake of going through these items to reconfirm in my own mind that I was not mistaken about his comment. Ohhh, the pain of going through my proof was unbelievable. Darn, it was just like it was happening all over again. It was all I could do to compose myself before he came home. He could sense the difference in me and asked several times if there was a problem,,is something bothering you. Evevntually, that evening, I told him what I had done that day. He just held me, hugged me and apologized for the pain. He asked me if I was finally able to let these items go, to throw them away. <P>ES, the trigger was the notes and reliving the pain. Coupled with the feeling that she is not comfortable with discussing the past. If possible, try to encourage meeting with the minister. It would give you both the chance to discuss your fears and to bring up the issues that still haunt you, in a constructive manner,,rather than an attack.

Hello ES,<P>We talked a long time ago about this. The bottle thread, where we took it out and then put the cork back on and put it away. So, tonite you uncorked the bottle again and relived the pain.<P>I do it too and use it as a reminder of just how much I want my marriage and I want it to be a great marriage. My H is not always in the right place to talk when I am but, I find it really does help when you share this. So, let her know what is going on in your head. At times I am surprised at the comfort I get.<P>There is also something to be said for throwing away the physical reminders. I have managed to throw away some papers, pictures and recently a Lenox vase that was really bugging me. Maybe it's just me but somehow I am ready when I do this and what a relief it is!!<P>It's been a long time for me with the religon thing too. As yet, I have not gone back and don't know when or if I'll ever be ready. If there is a god or gods they all failed me while I lived this hell. My pastor sent me a card over a year ago and left the door open. I thanked him, and that's all I can do for right now.<P>It's not unraveling, you're not insane and you're not losing your W. I just hope you can have her understand what this is like for you. Maybe ES, this is all part of the closure, I just don't know. But use it as a reminder of how much you love your W, your life and yourself.

Hi ES - Busy weekend and just got here to see this.....<P>Here's some BIG HUGS, pal!!!<P>Are you feeling better?<P>I completely agree with all that TNT said...triggers, triggers, everywhere!!<P>I also want to add another aspect...I am getting red flags about your discussing marital issues with this coworker......<P>I don't like it.....making me very nervous!!!! <P>When not with Hopeful, do not elaborate on your feelings with this woman!!! Very bad situation for two hurting and vulnerable people......<P>What's the deal with the questions still? I thought that Hopeful had answered most of them a long time ago and that the only ones left were the ones where she hadn't figured out here own reasoning of yet? Did you think of more or something?<P>Have you guys been adhering to the 4 rules? I mean really putting them into practice? I hope that life's circumstances are not causing you both to slack off and not communicate properly......<P>Talk to me....<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba

Sheba,<P>Just thought I would clarify my feelings about the coworker he has been talking to. I too have told her about the problems ES and I have had in the past. I have told her that I left and that I had the affair. I told her all this at church one night because I was having a really bad feeling that ES was never going to forgive me for everything that has happened. I felt that he was never going to forgive me for the affair or that I left with our D. I still have feelings that no matter what I do he will never love me the way he did before all this happened. Every once in awhile I feel that the best thing he could do would be to go out and sleep with a coworker just so that I would know how he felt when found out about my affair. I know that wouldn't make things any better for us but it was something I thought would make me understand what he was going through and why he needs to know everything.<P>I also feel sometimes that no matter what happens or how many questions I answer (or don't answer for him reading this post) we will never get past the fact that I had an affair. I feel that he will always come here and read the posts and thus reminding him of the past. I won't say for him not to read because I feel that he needs to be here to help get past everything that has happened. I also feel that he needs to be here in case his coworker comes and posts. I feel that he thinks that he needs to protect her like a little sister. I don't mind if he does. She has become a friend to me as well and I adore her kids. I would be hurt if I couldn't see her kids sometimes because they are adoreable and one of her daughters flirts big time bad with ES. Its really cute.<P>About the questions, I feel that no matter my answers to them he will always have questions that need to be answered and he will never have closure to this. That the answers I give will just produce more questions and this cycle will go on forever. Maybe if I give an answer to a question, he will do what I did to him, leave me with our D and that if he leaves I will never see our D again because he will never be forgive me. I know that this last part (about him leaving) will probably never happen but it's a fear that I have.<P>Sometimes I feel that I should never contact my family again. I shouldn't email them, call them, accept letters from them etc because they don't like ES. I feel that if I do have contact, it's just opening wounds for ES and he will feel that I will allow them to control me and thus leave again. I think I have learned that it doesn't matter what they think of ES. I love him with all my heart and he and our D is my family. They will always be there for me no matter what happens. I will not allow what my parents and sisters think only what I think.<P>Sorry this is so long. Just thought I would interupt my H's post.

acacia -- <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think old wounds are being triggered by reading old notes and making more connections that you did not make previously. Try to focus on what is happening now rather then dwelling on the past.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In some ways, both you and TNT are correct. Blantant reminders, such as those this weekend are probably far too much for me to be able to handle. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>How do you think she would act today given the same set of circumstances that led to the affair? Do you think she has confronted the issues in her heart or are you only questioning her because you took the off ramp to your past by reading those notes?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't know if these are questions I can answer. my little trip down memory (Nightmare)lane has sort of brought to the forefront and solidified questions which have yet to answered, or which before were only feelings an inconsitancies. I have asked my W exactly how she was able to make the decisions that she did, and I have never gotten any type of answer, so even with the progress we have made, and it is considerable, I really don't know if given the same set of circumstances, my W would avoid the affair. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If she can not really confront the issues and is keeping information from you that would give you closure than you do have a problem. Try to impress this on her.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I have tried to help my W see how important this is too me. Thus far, I have been unsuccessful.<P>Nerlycrzy -- <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> No doubt about it, in my mind. It was those notes bringing back that old pain. Brings that gut-wrenching ache right back to the surface.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yea, the notes had a lot to do with it, but so did talking with my friend. I think I had gottent o the point where I simply tried to pretend that this had never happened. Talking with this friend, and trying to help them see the options available to them, other than the choice which led us all to this forum, caused me to open a door in my mind. Just like the preverbial skelatins in the closet, everything came crashing out.<P>InShock -- <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We talked a long time ago about this. The bottle thread, where we took it out and then put the cork back on and put it away. So, tonite you uncorked the bottle again and relived the pain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You know, I remember that thread. . .Time in a bottle if I remember correctly. . . <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It's not unraveling, you're not insane and you're not losing your W. I just hope you can have her understand what this is like for you. Maybe ES, this is all part of the closure, I just don't know. But use it as a reminder of how much you love your W, your life and yourself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thank you. I do want my W to be able to "understand." I do not want her to ever have to "feel" what I went through.<P>Sheba -- <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I also want to add another aspect...I am getting red flags about your discussing marital issues with this coworker......<P>I don't like it.....making me very nervous!!!! <P>When not with Hopeful, do not elaborate on your feelings with this woman!!! Very bad situation for two hurting and vulnerable people......<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This is <B>NOT</B> a concern. There was a time during all of this, when there "might" have been cause for concern, but I know too much, have felt to much pain. This possibility is something that I am far too aware of. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What's the deal with the questions still? I thought that Hopeful had answered most of them a long time ago and that the only ones left were the ones where she hadn't figured out here own reasoning of yet? Did you think of more or something?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The short answer is yes. AS I expalined earlier, there wer many questions which have not been answered. There were also many feelings and inconsitantcies, that really had not formed themselves into questions until just recently. I would truly like to think that I am not the only one in my situation who has experienced this, but I do not remember seeing any posts convering this situation. Maybe it's just because so many here are dealing with spouses who are still actively engaged in the affairs . . . I simply don't know. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I hope that life's circumstances are not causing you both to slack off and not communicate properly......<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This amy be part of it. Unfortunately life has this very nasty habit of demanding that we push ourselves to extremes, at the expense of a great many other things.<P>This <B>IS NOT</B> about my IL's<B>! ! !</B>Yes, they had a lot to do with things going as far as they did. I still feel that tehy owe me an apology, that they my W an apology, and that they owe our D an apology. It's not something that is ever going to happen, I realize this, but their refusal to admit any quilt in this just adds insult to injury. I know, understand and freely admit to my contributions leading up to my W's infidelity, and to a point my W has done so . . . <P>I truly wish that I was able to function in shades of grey. I wish that I coulod accept things at face value . . .<P>I have never been able to do this. I tend to frustrate people I work with, because I won't accept the answer "this worked for me" I need to know why "it" worked. I realize that there are many who will probably think that I am placing too much stress on my W by this way of thinking. . . For that I am truly sorry, but I can not change the way my mind works.<P>I love my W will all of my being, and that last thing in the world that I want to do is hurt her.<P>Thank You again to all who have replied. I truly appreciate your thought and insights.<P>God Bless<P><BR>

Hi you two -<P>Well, I have to admit that you both have me a tad befuddled!!! Don't worry though cuz that is very easy to do these days!!! LOL!!!<P>I feel a mini "momma" episode coming on so take what I am going to ask/say in the spirit of the love from which it is meant....OK? Use it as food for thought - No defensiveness allowed!!!!<P>Hopeful - Glad you chimed in. It helps to see where both of your heads are at and therefore makes it more productive to know what direction we could possibly advise...<P>From what you wrote, I am thinking that as far as ES's questions....<P>1. You don't know what he is looking for because a) the question confuses you b) you are scared of telling the truth of the answer or c) you have no idea what the answer is.<P>2. I think that you are also afraid that he is never gonna stop asking questions and therefore the whole nightmare will forever be in your face.<P>3. Perhaps a little of there being times when enough is enough......not that you don't want ES feeling better, but that nothing you say is going to be good enough.<P>I have some ideas about this...we'll get to them more fully with ES, but as far as for you. TELL THE TRUTH, TELL IT ALL and phrase it in as good a way as you possibly can. ES is making the choice to want to know things....it is up to HIM to be sure that he can take the answers!!!!<P>As far as this coworker.....well, I am glad that you both are involved in this relationship, if it has to be. What the heck was that "ES have an affair so I can know what he is feeling now" stuff all about? Are you crazy? LOL!!!<P>Honey, have you learned anything here? Do you not remember the fact that a lot of things contributed to you making a bad decision? Do you not realize that you are not the only person ever to do so? PEOPLE make mistakes!!! ESPECIALLY when influenced by others.....<P>Do you feel any more confident in yourself than you used to? Have you gained any strength throughout these past months? Are you working on being the woman you want to be?<P>Es - As far as the questions you have:<P>I think I may have seen a bit of the problem.....you are kinda vaque!!!<BR>That example question of "How Exactly did you make the decisions you did" made me go "huh? How the heck do I know!! It was just everything and everyone at the time!!!"<P>That isn't what you are looking for is it? I think maybe you need to break it down some.....take what your "fear" is and ask about that.. There is no way she can answer this with any exactness, ES..... <P>I don't know what you are looking for with this question....you know by being here on MB that confusion causes a lot of things.....so what do you expect EXACTLY? Do you want to know what her folks said to push her into her actions?<BR>Do you want to know if she loved you? WHAT?<P>Have to be a little more specific I think......<P>What other questions do you still have? Take a good look at them and see if they are just as vague......perhaps it is simply a matter of rewording it to get to the point......<P>Now, about this coworker......<P>Sorry, but still feel very uneasy about it, ES. Yes, you know alot, you've gone through alot....but it doesn't mean you don't also FEEL alot.<P>The biggest red flag is that you have said yourself that through talking with HER you started to realize a lot more negatives.....<P>WARNING LIGHTS FLASHING AND SIRENS SOUNDING!!!!!<P>I will ask you the same thing I asked Hopeful.....Have you learned anything here? You are putting yourself in a dangerous position. It does not matter how much self-control you feel you have.<BR>Things happen!!! Things are more open to happen when we are vulnerable!!! <BR>YOU KNOW THIS........You even admitted that there was a time when it could have. That time is not over. You have become emotionally involved with her life and she in yours. If you only saw her when Hopeful was present, it would be acceptable. BUT you don't!!! YOU have a bond with her that is nurtured everyday just one on one.....<P>NOT GOOD!!!! ESPECIALLY when you are "realizing" more hidden feelings. Those new fears didn't come up with any of us when you spoke with us did it? Funny how it does with her....I don't think that it is ALL because of the revisited memories of the past pain and I don't think that you do either.<P>Now to both of you.....you guys REALLY need to start implementing these MB tools, otherwise what direction are you heading in? What has been gained towards that better marriage that can be achieved through them if you aren't using them?<P>POJA....the Four Rules.....look them up again. START doing them consistantly!!!<BR>You don't want to stay like this forever do you? Of course not!!! Get moving!!!<P>Life does get in the way, but you know - if we let "life" rule us then we end up in these big messes, don't we? <P>Gotta rule your own life.......<P>BIG HUGS and I love you so this is the end of my semi-yearly motivational homily!!!!<P>Sheba <BR> <BR>

ES -<P>My friend, I'm sorry this is so late getting to you. I was out of town this weekend and didn't see your email until this morning.<P>Here's my take:<P>I agree with the others that rereading the information and re-imersing yourself into the past is what has caused these feelings to resurface so violently. I don't think it's wrong to have reflected on the past . . . we all need to remember what it is that has hurt us so that we will NEVER let it happen again.<P>However, completely reliving the past is harmful in just about ANY context, especially this one.<P>ES, I firmly believe that "getting over" these kinds of things is a concious decision that we make. I heard a speaker this weekend say that every one of us is a product of two things: (1) the circumstances that we encounter, and (2) the choices that we make.<P>Those of us who never recover from an affair (both betrayer AND betrayed) are people who let our circumstances dictate who we are. Those of us who DO recover, make the CHOICE to recover.<P>It would be easy to give up . . . to let the past wear you down. Overcoming an affair is not something that is easy. It takes a conscious and determined effort to TALK your way through it; to CRY your way through it; and to LIVE your way through it.<P>Sometimes it may seem like you just can't make it anymore, but believe me, if you give up, you'll regret it for the rest of your life.<P>I've "known" you now for over a year. You wouldn't be here if you were a quitter. Hopeful wouldn't be here if she were a quitter. Don't let the despair allow you to quit. You've got to learn to forgive and to move on.<P>You remember that you and I came here at about the same time. We identified with each other because of the circumstances and similarities of our wives' affairs. Of all the people that I've met here at MB, I feel closest to you, and I sympathize most with your pain.<P>If Petunia and I can get over something like this, then I know you and Hopeful can too. ES, call me any time. You've got my phone number. If you've lost it, email me and I'll call YOU (I've still got your number). <P>I'm still planning to come to Colorado in the near future, and I want to meet you face to face to thank you for what you've done for me. The least I can do is be there to talk to you when you need ME.<P>Hang in there, and don't be a quitter. Your daughter needs you and Hopeful together as a loving, happy family.<P>I'm praying for you, buddy.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

Maybe ES should post his questions that he still has on this thread. Then I wouldn't be able to avoid the questions. If someone thinks the questions or answers are to vague then we could try to elaborate more on them.<P>What does everyone think?

ES, Do you remember me? You and Lonestar and<BR>Sheba used to give me some great advice. I too had stayed away from the board for along time. I though my marriage was really going good again. H was home we were communicating ect. For some reason I started to lurk again. What it did was to start to trigger all of those same feelings I had. Not to mention that it was a year ago that H left me the first time. To make a long story short I think my behavior the past few weeks along with my H guilt about last year has caused big problems. H just left today again. Packed up what he needed and said goodbye. Of course I was angry but now I don't know. He told me that he is again feeling that restless feeling and that he feels again that he is not in love with me anymore. I really wonder how much of that can be blamed on the way I have been this past month. I have brought up last year alot and I've been kind of cold towards him. I haven't meant to be but I think it was still the pain. Maybe our marriage just wasn't meant to be saved. I love him with all of my heart but it's really hard to respect a man who could leave his wife and kids twice. Any way the point of my rambling is don't let those old feelings ruin what you and your wife have built again together. I let myself get lost in the pain again and now I think I'm paying for it.<P>Jill

Sheba -- <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think I may have seen a bit of the problem.....you are kinda vaque!!!<BR>That example question of "How Exactly did you make the decisions you did" made me go "huh? How the heck do I know!! It was just everything and everyone at the time!!!"<P>That isn't what you are looking for is it? I think maybe you need to break it down some.....take what your "fear" is and ask about that.. There is no way she can answer this with any exactness, ES.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I was intentionally vague in the "question" I asked here. I was trying more to give a generalization that ask a specific question. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>ESPECIALLY when you are "realizing" more hidden feelings. Those new fears didn't come up with any of us when you spoke with us did it? Funny how it does with her....I don't think that it is ALL because of the revisited memories of the past pain and I don't think that you do either.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This I am afraid is not all accurate. Other than an occasional peek, I have not been on this forum in almost 6 months. I avoided thinking or feeling anything about the infidelity. I have directed two people to this forum during that time period. As the odds would have it . . . both are women. While it is true that I had been told the basics of their situations which led me to giving them the URL, I had not gotten involved in talking about or thinking about the situations. It has only been in the last few days that I began talking about infidelity and marital difficulties in general enough, that I had to consciously think about my situation. It was during these conversations and the subsequent reflection, that some of the things which had been concerns, but never formed themselves into questions, began to take shape. Thus prompting my unfortunate trip down memory lane. I am still trying to sort through my thoughts in an attempt to actually put my thoughts and questions into words. So why didn't these questions come up before, when I was actively posting? ? ? Probably because I was to close. I was dealing more with the obvious thoughts and questions. I never allowed myself to back away long enough to get past the obvious.<P>By way of example . . . I used to work security for Disney. I was a supervisor in charge of a 15 man shift. There came a time one night (I worked the graveyard shift) when we had a local area gang come onto the property. Things ended up getting out of hand and there was an all out war between my men and I and this gang. I was responsible for the safety of my men, the guest and the property of Disney. As a result of my responsiblities as well as my experience I was forced to not only be involved in the fight, but to keep an overall eye on the situation and attempt to direct things in such a way as to prevent serious injury. . .Well one of the men who worked for me was 19, very head strong, and "gung ho". He was involved with fighting one individual. At one point he was drawing back to hit his opponent when he was blind sided by another combatant and almost knocked out. He was doing very well at holding his own with one opponent, but unfortunately, we were involved in a fight involving 30 some people. . .<P>In a way I was that young 19 year old man. I was fighting with blinders on during the last few years. My primary goal was survival. It was not until some time had gone by, and things had calmed down, that I was able to finally start recalling some of the other things happening around me.<P>I hope this made sense. . . <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Life does get in the way, but you know - if we let "life" rule us then we end up in these big messes, don't we?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I am sure that most all of us here on this forum wish that this was not the case. I have tried to not allow "outside influences" to direct my life, and I must admit that I am not always successfull. In fact there are times when I do a very poor job.<P>I feel very confident saying that both hopeful and I share the same feeling of love for you for my friend.<P>Lone Star -- <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You remember that you and I came here at about the same time. We identified with each other because of the circumstances and similarities of our wives' affairs. Of all the people that I've met here at MB, I feel closest to you, and I sympathize most with your pain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My friend, we have had similar conversations with each other in the past, and I want you to know that I love you too. We have both fallen victim to life interferring in our lives and have been out of touch with each other for too long. Perhaps I really do need to just sit down and talk with you some more, one on one. In fact, I will plan on calling this weekend, if you are going to be home. Send me an Email and let me know.<P>My Dear Wife -- <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Maybe ES should post his questions that he still has on this thread. Then I wouldn't be able to avoid the questions. If someone thinks the questions or answers are to vague then we could try to elaborate more on them.<BR>What does everyone think?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't think I am going to do this. firstly, we don't need to take up valuable server space on this, when so many others need to be able to come here for more immediate support. As I said to Sheba, I am still trying to formulate my thoughts and feelings into actual questions which are not vague or threatening.<P>I Love You.

crazy or what? -- Yes, Jill, I do remember you. I am sorry that things have not worked out for you and your H.<P>I didn't mean to ignore your reply for so long, but you must have posted while I was posting my last reply.<P>Since that time I have talked on the phone with my dear friend Lone Star. He tried to help me realize some of the things you mentioned as having gone on in the past month or so.<P>It is not my intention to cause my W any further pain, nor is it my intention to undermine the progress which my W and I have made thus far. This is all just so difficult some times, and we have to find a way to work through all of this <B>together</B>.<P>My thoughts and prayers go out to you Jill.<P>God Bless