Hi Everyone,<P>My H landed a job for the first time in his life. He has been a Professional Musician for the last 28+ years. His new job is working for the city in charge of their Cisco network. A day job (8:00 - 4:30p)<P>OW is a Welfare mom, although in the last year she has decided she wants to get into Music (Hmmmmm ..) so she has purchased Studio equipment and a Kareoke system and hosts Kareoke at local establishments (under the table money I might add - can you say Welfare Fraud?). She also has local musicians come to her home to record in her studio and charges them. This "career" change of hers is all actions to show my H they have sooooo much in common. Yeah Right! OW wakes up at noon and stays up until 2:00 or 3:00a.<P>Now my question(s):<P>Do you think since my H is now working a day job and is no longer in that nightlife (smokey dark bars, depressed and drunk people, drugs and lots of loser type situations) that the dynamics of their relationship will change. And if so, can you tell me what your thoughts are of how they'll change. Now remember, OW has OC from H that is 8.5 yo. And she uses OC situation to manipulate my H BIG TIME!<P>Your thoughts and help on this are very much appreciated.<P>God Bless Us!<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 22, 2000).]

If his new job is going to last, the dynamics have to change. He can't be a barfly and be at work at 8:00a.m. If that is what she is doing, she will either ruin him or she'll have to go. I guess it's just a waiting game now to see which it will be.

My sympathies about your H being a musician lol. Been there done that. Lived with one for 5 years. Here is my take - OW sounds like the "groupie type" getting into music herself, recording. All typical behavior for women who want to put themselves in the presence of musicians. What I have noticed about these type of women is that when the guy gets a regular job and is no longer in the spotlight their attention drifts. I'v never met a woman who says "I'm just so into guys who work for the city" Sometimes it takes afew months but once they are out of it for awhile they seem to be pretty quickly forgotten. It's just so much more exciting to be with someone who is up there onstage. Plus the bar life will be much harder for him to keep up with. I would expect a change, maybe not right away but I think it will happen.<BR>

First of all, congrats on H's new job. If he's Cisco certified, that's no small potatoes.<P>If what attracts OW to your H is that he's a musician, than you can bet your booty that their dynamic will change. My H was the World's Oldest Living Deadhead early on. He didn't want marriage, commitment, house, anything. He worked a dead-end job, indulged in substances, etc. I never pushed him, just set an example that there was another way to live. He got a job as a computer operator, then on a help desk, then a number of other jobs, and now he's an Information Systems manager, we have a house that he loves as much as I do, and he's about as suburban as you can get.<P>While the OC will always be a complication, if she's got that groupie mentality, I think your H will find himself cheated on, by her, very soon.

Hi Jo,<BR>That OW sure is a piece of work! A welfare mom commiting fraud and harassing you at the same time! I find myself asking once again, what the #*(@ does Jo's H see in this OW???? Then I reread your post and the following sentences jumped out.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Resilient:<BR>My H landed a job for the first time in his life. He has been a Professional Musician for the last 28+ years. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm not sure how to express myself here. Plus I'm staying up too late again, but I'll give it a shot... If your H is a musician, he's creative and talented. That makes him special. My H is an artist, and I really fell for him when I saw his work. Maybe it was the same for you? <P>Our lives changed dramatically when my father-in-law and mother-in-law died unexpectedly within a year of each other. Since that time, H has been a "full time" artist. We have differing views of what that means, and I believe it may be the number one source of discord between us. H makes zero dollars from his art. Yet creating his art is how he spends most of his time. I consider a "full time" artist to be someone who earns their living at what they do best. We're now on the brink of bankruptcy (love banks and bank banks both). <P>I'm the first to admit that I just don't understand him. I thought at one time that my supply of patience was infinite, and then it ran dry. A rapid downward spiral ensued. LBs multiple times daily, angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements. He always made me feel like nothing I did "counted." Anything he did was always more important. Now I wonder if he was simply reflecting what he felt from me. I recognize his talent and appreciate it. But to this day I can't shake the notion that by gosh you've got to earn a living from your art if you're going to spend every waking moment creating art!!! It's been a problem for a long time and continues as I type this.<P>Jo, the two sentences I quoted above really got me thinking. You make it sound like being a musician "doesn't count," the same way that my H's time spent creating art "doesn't count unless he earns a living from it". I have to accept what is the core of my H's being. I have to believe in my heart that it counts. Believe me, I try to be supportive of my H and his work. It's very difficult for me, especially now that July is almost gone and I still have June bills to pay. <P>Jo, I think our H's may have one thing in common: there's something they need from us that they're not getting, and I believe that whatever it is that's missing relates to their work. You gave me a glimpse of what I may be doing wrong. I hope that I can return the favor. And I haven't even answered your question. The answer really depends on your H and what motivates him. If his job is one that he really wants, he will succeed and the OW will be history. On the other hand, if he's sacrificing his life as a musician for the sole purpose of earning an income, he'll be paying a very high price for that income. He'd be turning into something that he doesn't want to be. He has a rough road ahead. From reading other posts, it sounds like the WS gets really mean and nasty as the relationship with the OP falls apart. Fasten your seatbelt! A rough road for him means a rough road for you too Jo. Hang in there!

Jo:<P>Just a question. What made H quit musician lifestyle? Has he always been a systems wantabe or is this his real calling? These two jobs seem like the anthesis of each other. It he going to continue the music on the side?<P>This change to a 9-5 job could have a great influence on his relationship with OW.<BR>A musician's life is different from the mainstream, the hours, the people, the places...all conducive to the alternate lifestyle...the lifestyle of OW. <P>Maybe this is his way of providing the structure to his life that he needs to be a good father. Some people don't deal with freedom too well, they need the structure of being told they have to be at a certain place, doing a certain job at a certain time, to be able to control their life. <P>My husband's like this. He has no self-motivation and would probably have been better working at a 9-5 job for someone else where someone else could supply his incentive.<P>All in all, I think this is a good move for you...at least he will be out of that lifestyle for 8 hours a day. Maybe his head will clear at little away from it.<P>I hope so because you deserve it.<P>Buffy<P> <P><BR>

Thank you Popeye, Fairydust, D & C, Buffy and Lonesome Heart,<P>Since the day I met my H I've always admired his talent, I don't have a single artistic bone in my body. He's very talented and his dream was to be "famous" one day. He graduated from GIT (Guitar Institute of Tech) and he wanted more than anything to make it in the music scene down in Hollywood, CA. We met in California 21 years ago. I have always supported him in his music, then when we moved here for his family, he had a really hard time adjusting to the fact he was now in a lounge band, and was doing copy music instead of his own. Again I supported whatever he chose to do. He had many many probs with other band members (King of Conflict Avoiders) and eventually put together a single act using Midi sequences for the background musicians. He struggled financially for 8 years doing this and it was from hand to mouth for him in paychecks, but he was resigned to it. Again I supported him in his choice. Throughout the years, myself and his family tried to encourage him to attend school during the day, he never followed thru. I was willing to suuport him financially until he earned his degree but he never did it.<P>So in 99' he started to see his boys (2 OC) and participated in their lives, little did I know he was also participating in OW life as well. It was the beginning of the end. He then started school and played at night only to make the minumum to get by, I carried us financially. <P>So where I'm headed with this is I have always supported and wanted whatever he decided to do, I knew he would resent me if I ever pushed him into another career choice until he was ready to realize it. What hurts is he finally decided to do it for his boys, not me. And I fear he also did it for OW too.<P>When I use the phrase a "Real" job it's becuz that's what he's saying too now. A year ago he would have been very offended if myself or anyone else would have used that phrase, as if what he was doing as a musician was not real or hard work, or acknowledged as having value. I was very conscious in our homelife never to refer to his career as playing, it was work. Sensitive man but I love him for that.<P>Yes, D & C, he will be going to school to get his Cisco certification, and the City pays for it, is that not cool?<P>I believe in my heart the relationship w/OW is a way of grabbing whatever was left of his Musician life, a 43 year old groupie who also happens to be the mother of his son, she worships the talented ground he walks and constantly tells him what a great guitar player he is. <P>I use to tell him that too, not every day but every so often, and he knew I believed in him and still do.<P>Lonesome Heart,<BR>I think I see what need I did not meet for my H, he needed constant admiration, when I say constant I mean it. Afterall, that's one of the biggest reasons he was an entertainer, he loves the admiration and attention. But who is going to treat their H like a god in their home day in and day out, isn't that asking for too much. He is or was my hero but he is also a human just like me, and I'll be damned if I'm going to ever be able to treat my H like he is King Tut. I don't think any wife could do it. Sorry ... I'm getting worked up just typing this, probably becuz I know OW is doing this very thing as I speak. <P>What can I do? How can I treat my H with admiration and attention but to the degree he expects when his expectations are based on how these Groupies treat him, it's not reasonable, is it?<P>Now I'm confused and feel so inadequate. Please help.<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 24, 2000).]

Hi Jo,<BR>I'm not very good at writing and probably can't give you good advice but here I go..<P>I feel the admiration your H wants it's impossible to get from W... because in relationships both men and women have to be equal.. either one should not be in the higher place... Like you wrote if he wants constant admiration from someone he wants to be treated like a king.. And any W can't do that.. If he gets that from OW, that's not a real relationship... She still acts like a groupie in my opinion. I know nothing I wrote make you feel better but just want to say that you can't act the way your H wants.<P>Your post made me think... since my H is a musician and he's pretty successful in a folk music scene. But when we started to see each other he was playing at a restaurant and I supported(emotionally) all these years. I feel resentful that as soon as he became successful and get all of the attention from beautiful girls he doesn't need me anymore.. I feel I was used. And do I deserve this kind of treatment? NO!<P>Jo, I'm sorry you have to go through this(and I'm saying this to me too). It's sad you supported him so long and he could just take off like this.<P>I really hope his new job do something to OW(in a bad way). I really do.<P>Take care,<BR>Meg

Hi Meg,<P>Your post was very sweet, thank you for responding to me.<P>I'm sorry for the both of us too. I, like you, supported my H emotionally for all those many years, and while doing it my heart broke for him. I could see it was tearing him appart not realizing his dream. He was certain he was going to "make it".<P>He saved and saved his money when he was younger so he could go to GIT in Hollywood, and he met so many successful musicians, he was just as good if not better than most too. Everyone that hears him play says he's great, and he is.<P>I don't believe he'll ever give up his guitar and music, and maybe one day he'll realize his dream when he least expects it to happen. That is my prayer for him. I'd give anything, do anything to see him happy.<P>I'm so sorry that your H has treated you this way after so many years of being his mate, best friend and number one fan. I know how you feel, like being kicked to the curb.<P>Please say a small prayer for me this evening, going to court house to see the judge about OW and I've been stressed all week-end.<P>I'll keep you in my prayers Meg and your H too, Hon.<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 23, 2000).]

Jo,<BR>Hi again,<BR>I just drop in to say thank you for your kind words and let you know you are in my prayers. You are a strong woman and you can go thorough this(seeing OW)! Finally you get to see her and maybe that's not what you reall wanted but at least you can badmouth about her figure <BR>Let us know how it goes!!<P>Meg<BR>

Hola again Meg!<P>Don't know that I can bad mouth about her figure, she has silicone tits. I'm sure they're big, why else would she get em' installed? Hear she's tall, like me, with platnum blonde hair, unlike me, I'm a brunette.<P>So, she may be attractive...at least in the physical sense.<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 24, 2000).]

Jo,<P>First of all, I have to say that you are an amazing woman for dealing with as much as you have. I don't know how you can stand this waiting game.<P>Will the new job affect the relationship? As a former City employee myself (SeaTac, not Tacoma), I can definitely tell you that it WILL impact the relationship tremendously. If it sticks with the job, the relationship (I'm willing to bet) will end. I guess the main question with this is Is his heart really into this job? Is this something that is really important to him?<P>If he needs an excessive amount of positive attention (BTW, did you get Staheli's book yet?), then this job will cause a conflict. From the sound of things, her trying to fit into the City group will be like a streetwalker trying to fit in at a cocktail party - and she DEFINITELY doesn't sound like Julia Roberts, so there's no chance. And she doesn't seem like the type who would WANT to fit in with that group.<P>I think that they will both get sick of each other with the career change. They're in completly different environments now. Their relationship seems tenuous as it is, I don't see it surviving much longer. If I may be blunt, she's nothing but a one-night-stand gone amuck (because of the OC). <P>Just sit back and let the affair die. You're a strong person, you'll make it through this.<P>Best of luck,<BR>Ali<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think I see what need I did not meet for my H, he needed constant admiration, when I say constant I mean it. Afterall, that's one of the biggest reasons he was an entertainer, he loves the admiration and attention. But who is going to treat their H like a god in their home day in and day out, isn't that asking for too much. He is or was my hero but he is also a human just like me, and I'll be damned if I'm going to ever be able to treat my H like he is King Tut. I don't think any wife could do it. Sorry ... I'm getting worked up just typing this, probably becuz I know OW is doing this very thing as I speak. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Jo, I think my H may need the same level of admiration. Like you, it's more than I'm comfortable in giving. While I was able, I supported him financially and felt that was "more than enough" support. He doesn't think in terms of money. It's a need, of course, but he acts like it's a need that's not even on his list. H's like ours need others who have 110% faith in them. Like you, I ask how can I give him that??? I suspect you're right about the OW meeting his need for admiration. If you and I were to see her in action, we'd probably consider it pukeworthy! Kinda makes it hard for us to meet that need. <P>I enjoyed reading more about your H and his music. These talented guys are d*(@#&$ difficult to be married to! <BR>

Resilient,<BR> You are one strong woman! 2 OC? Are they by the same woman? Your H may crave that "groupie attention". Heck, who wouldn't! My exBF was a totally lazy slacker who used to get mad that I wouldn't become a stripper and let him stay home and "concentrate on his music". He constantly pointed out to me that there were plenty of other girls who thought he walked on water. Keep in mind, I am an artist too. My degree is in art and I'm pretty darn good! Yet I supported myself working jobs that weren't my ideal, that's life. Eventually I had enough. I know there are many long suffering musician wives out there and your H must have some wonderful qualities for someone like you to keep loving him. He better appreciate it! Pretty soon he'll see that you are the one still there when the stagelights fade.<P>As far as the OW appearance I bet she is what we used to call a mirage. I was in my early-mid twenties during the musician period and there were quite afew mirages. Definition = A mirage is a woman who is way too old to be chasing band guys around. From across the dark bar she looks pretty good (mirage). Pamela Anderson hair, fake boobs, tight skimpy clothes, good body. Then you get closer or (heaven forbid) in the light of day. Nine times out of ten the years, the lifestyle and too much tanning bed have not been kind to these women! However the occasional twenty something band guys will still have flings with mirages becasue it's a novelty. A mirage can never be satisfied with a "regular guy". She's addicted.

Hi Jo,<P>Not an artist's wife, here, but can I come to your thread anyway?<P>I still see similarities, though. When I met my h, he was going back to school and flat broke. I had the house and a very good savings built up. I had worked my tail off during my twenties and scrimped like crazy.<P>My dad would not come to the wedding. He was concerned on two counts (without even getting to know my h): he didn't have a real job, he was Colombian (and all hispanics cheat on their wives according to dad).<P>BTW, my dad knows nothing about the infidelities.<P>My h worked hard to catch up and pass me in earning power so I could realize my dream of staying home to raise kids. Since I was nearly 30 when we married, the ole clock was ticking...<P>He made a big pay jump when he took a job that required MAJOR travel (I was lucky if he was home one week a month). One thing I left out was that I travelled this much when we dated and he would not marry me unless I switched jobs and I did.<P>I thought it would be for a year or so. I was just looking at old passports, it started summer of '94. He liked it too much to quit, while I went through three pregnancies, two kids. He briefly tried a 9 to 5 job and HATED it.<P>Like you, I supported him in following his dreams. At first I focused on how he could pay me back this way, two affairs!<P>But I had become very resentful about supporting him and gave him less and less admiration. OW #2 gave him plenty!<P>JO, still awake? I'm long. The point for me was that POJA has to guide our lives.<P>We have to find a way to meet his need to develop his talents (extremely talented businessman) in a way I can be ENTHUSIASTIC about. We are still searching. In the meantime, we are thinking out of the box. I have spent 12 WEEKS in hotels this year going with him on trips with the kids, sometimes without.<P>Supporting him is good, but it has to be good for you too. Do you have a need for financial support? You will have to help him be a man you can admire. I still don't know where his career will take us, but now I know it will be somewhere we BOTH want to go.<P>

Hey Fairydust,<P>Yes 2 OC from 2 OW. The boys are 11 mos apart in age (7.5 & 8.5 yo). The first one is from OW #1 (one night stand) with fake tits, she named OC after my H, his exact name. That hurt alot! She is the Fruit Loop that is now harassing me 8.5 years later.<P>OW #2 is not a prob and she and I are good friends now, she even helps give advice about crazy OW #1, I absolutely LOVE her son (OC #2, my step son) and he me. I wanted to be as close to OC #1, but OW #1 would not allow it and she bad mouthed me to him. Oh well.<P>Yes, this is H*ll, it's very confusing for me to explain it to ppl, and can you imagine my poor Therapist....?<P>The OW is being served today with Anti Harassment Order, the Sheriff just called me to confirm her address. Yesterday I appeared in front of the judge and sobbed as I told my story. He listened to the notorious tapes and then asked me if I had Cancer (OW called me a Cancerous C*nt on the tape), I told him I am now in remission. He was very very nice.<P>Then aft court hearing I went to see my counselor, she told me that the Judge that heard my case has terminal Liver Cancer. So now I see why he was so empathetic, he even teared up a bit as I was talking/crying.<P>God works in mysterious ways!<P>So court date is set, Tuesday, AUGUST 1ST at 1:30p.<P>O..M..G! That's next Tuesday! Didn't realize... <P>Jo<P>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 25, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 25, 2000).]

Jo,<P>Maybe I missed this, but has your H been having an affair w/this OW for 8 years, or was it a one-night that recently started up again? Jeez, what a b*tch - what is he thinking??? Oh well, set her next to a heat source - she'll melt and you'll feel better. <P>Good luck w/the court appearance. You'll be in my prayers! <P>Ali

Nope Ali,<BR>My H and OW were not having an affair for 8.5 yrs. NO WAY JOSE!<P>Started up in mid 99', H had no contact w/OW or OCs for 7+ years, his choice. He paid child support but did not want to participate in the OC's lives. The OW is bad news and back then he had to file a restraining order on her. She kept coming into places he played and threw drinks in his face and heckeled him. I did not get involved in it, I just stayed in the background.<P>Thanks for the vote of confidence for next week. Very nervous.<P>Jo

Jo:<P>I'm glad your first court date went well; crossing my fingers for the second.<P>About the job...I think it will definitely change the relationship with OW, but I also think it may change your H's perception of himself. <P>If this is his first "real" job, that says to me he was really pursuing music as a career. This "real" job may actually be a blow to his ego--the admission of a failed dream.<P>If you thought he needed admiration before, I'm betting you will find he needs a double dose now. If I were you I'd be there to give it to him as much as possible. And I would give him praise for his work on his new job as well as ANY music work that he's still doing.<P>It's hard for creative people to find their niche in the 9 to 5 world. Let him know he's special to you, not just another rat in the race.<P>Good luck with everything! --HBC

Resilient,<P>I was looking to see if you replied back.