I've been reading about how I should be handling things with my H since he had his affair and while I do feel that he feels his emotional needs have not been met by me, I'm not sure that I can realistically meet them.<P>I've been seeing a counselor for months now about my own depression and panic attacks. This was before I found out about the affair. I was feeling unloved and unimportant for so long. My marriage has been troubled from early on.<P>My counselor feels that my husband may be a narcissistic personality from the patterns of behavior that I describe to her and what she has witnessed. He can never see any wrong in what he does, he feels that things happen to him because other people make them happen to him, and he is unwilling to see things from a perspective other than his own.<BR>He also feels justified in hurting me because from his perspective I hurt him so he's entitled to hurt me. <P>I feel like he plays mind games with me, always trying to make me feel bad for things I do to him, but never accepting that he does anything to hurt me or how it impacts me. He says I make it all about myself, but I feel like it is always about him. Our discussion are cyclical, we never seen to get anywhere. It's always "you did this to me, so I did this to you" and "Well, I did this because you did this".<P>Do any of the books listed here address personality disorders? Or cases where one person really controls the whole relationship?? In the book about surviving the affair, I got the sense that betrayed was responsible for not meeting the emotional needs of the betrayer. But what happens when the betrayed has always felt that way too? I just didnt' go the route of an affair. I went to counseling.<P>I hope I'm being clear. I am really confused about how to apply this to my situation. I DO love my husband, but I try so hard and I feel like I can never do anything right. No matter what I do it's suspect, no matter what I say it's never the right thing. <P>Thanks for listening.

adamanteve: I too wonder if my H has a personality disorder. Don't know if it's so extreme. But he usually can't "empathize" or understand something unless it's happened to him.<P>During his affair his actions were so evil towards me I just couldn't believe I was married to this person and had a child by him. I truly felt like he might have split personality. Something. It just didn't make sense. I wonder how you can determine this? My H is going to try counseling alone. For his own sake. I hope he opens up to this person and gets the help he needs. Have you suggested this to your H?<P>Another thing with my H is that when I get angry at him and start a fight he has a high potential to do something that he could never undo. So when we fight I fear he'd run out to be with OW to "get me back". Whatever. I'm like you. My needs were not being met either. But instead of an affair I built up a wall of anger, resentment, pain, sorrow, loss, etc. All my emtions. I was down right mean and would NOT give the effection I felt towards my H because he didn't deserve it. Ask your H to see someone. It might do wonders. Good Luck. LSM

My H does have a personality disorder - he's a BP (Borderline Personality). The book that helped me understand why he was blaming me for *everything* that went bad in his life and other things is called "Stop Walking on Eggshells." It taught me communication techniques. For a lot of people with personality disorders, affairs are quite common. Now, if your H has a personality disorder or even if he is behaving as though he might have one, you might want to look into getting a good cognitive behavioral therapist. What this kind of therapy does is attempt to change the patient's outlook and perspective - essentially to give them a healthier value system. Narcissistic Personality Disorder commonly goes along with BPD, BTW, and H definitely has aspects of that disorder, as well.<P>I wish you well, if you are dealing with this as well. It's been a hell on earth. For years, I could not understand my H's erratic and insane behavior. He pulled things out of thin air that were clearly absurd and which had no bearing on real life; I felt as though he were so paranoid and self-centered that he was willing to paint me as black as he could in order to justify his behavior and made to look like the "good guy."<P>Good luck. Please look into a cognitive behavioral therapy. For many people w/ personality disorders, drug therapy alone is not enough. They need to address their core value system.<P>belld

Thanks for your replies. It's interesting to note about Bipolar disorder. I think I really need that book you mentioned. My H's mother is bi polar. Does that run in families??? I have had a sneaking suspicion for a long time that he might be, giving his mood swings and his reckless behavior without regard for consequences. I am just not sure.<P>He is seeing a competent counselor. My therapist recommended him. He seems to like him, but who really knows. I am hoping they can get to the bottom of things, even just for his sake.<P>Thanks again for the support.

A very interesting site on Narcissism is:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6297/faq1.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6297/faq1.html</A> <P>Put that together with passive aggression and controlling manilulative as well as an oedipus complex and you have a powder keg!

I really need to reply to this because the old boy I'm married has such a horrid temper that his daily rages (and my reaction to them) have made our 7 years together a nightmare.<P>Anything makes him mad--and not just a little mad. Furious!!! He stresses over anything, and of course, every situation will have the possible outcome in his mind, for which I am to blame. (SOMEONE has to be accountable for everything that goes wrong, and it certainly could not be my husband! Never!)<P>He has only laid a hand on me once, which is fortunate because he is a huge man, (I ended up cracking a wall, but it wasn't his fault, you know, it was because the wall was so thin.) But it was on a daily basis that he stood screaming with a fist in my face, calling me every name in the book. He jumped up and down. He overturned furniture. He cursed. But, if I ever showed the slightest sign of anger in any way, towards anyone, he would say "You just can't seem to control yourself, can you?" (People really hate their own faults when they identify them in other people.)<P>Friends would say "If he's like that, leave him. He's dangerous." Yeah, I know. But I thought, like have said before, that a temper is just a temper and does not reflect a person's true character. My husband really was a sweetheart. Once a very charitable, loving man. I wouldn't have married him if he wasn't (I am not a stupid person and I am not a masochist.) I wasn't afraid of him. I wanted to stand by him because I loved the guy. I thought that loving him would ease his pain, make his temper go away. It didn't. The temper tantrums got worse.<P>One day, I just started ignoring him. No crying, no begging for him to understand me, no pleading for him to calm down like I always did (this always prompted "You big crybaby! Can't you face reality without a bunch of tears?" Crying compounded the fights 100x.)<BR> <BR>When he would yell at me, I would say "Oh, if that's the way you feel, go ahead, enjoy yourself." And then I would walk away. I was sick of the BS!!! It didn't take too long before he was sleeping by himself in another room, sulking like a child. (Because I was ignoring him and not letting him express himself to me.) And then, after this, he was sleeping with someone else when it was convenient (he went to a school on the east coast for six months and it was my fault that he was alone there with no one to "listen to him.") You know, I drove him to it--the EA--because I was ignoring his tantrums and verbal abuse. He says that I turned my back on him.<P>Funny, when I told the OW (in a fit of spitefullness, I admit) that the day he lifted her by the shirt collar and screamed, eyeball-to-eyeball, that she was stupid b****, (like he did me once)I was going to laugh my head off. "Oh, no" she said "He would never do that!" (That's how well she knew him--after all, they were soulmates, you know.)<P>Dr H addresses "Angry Outbursts" in his book "Love Busters" and when I read that chapter, I cried my eyes out. It described the absolute story of my life. Anger really does make you forget! My husband could never see his own temper--only MY reaction to it. If he could have, and we had addressed it early on in marriage instead just trying to "deal" with it, then we would not have ended it here, dealing with an affair as well. (This part IS just as much my fault.)<P>It is a terrible thing to throw a marriage away for a problem that we could have overcome before it snowballed. <P>But, macho guys like my H will not admit to problems and going to a counselor is like an admition to weakness (even if they know it will help in the long run.) Anger management is such an available therapy, and an important one.<P>Okay, here's a question: How do you get a person to counseling (for problems like I have described) when they need it, but are not willing to go? Going yourself does not help them. Your ideas?<P>[This message has been edited by Bernzini (edited July 27, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Bernzini (edited August 15, 2000).]

Bernzini,<P>Yup. It's official. We *did* marry the same guy. I told the OW once about my H's temper, his physical aggressiveness. Throwing a laundry basket of clean clothes at me, tearing off his own shirt in a fit of rage, destroying kitchen implements, screaming filthy names at me. I got the same thing, "I don't believe you, he's the sweetest kindest man I've *ever* met." Yes, I can understand why she'd think that, because I thought the same thing at one time, too. If you would have told me, during the first year of our courtship and right after our marriage, that my H was capable of uttering such filth from his mouth, I would have called them a liar to their face.<P>I too finally managed the art of walking away. Now, mind you, this meant a lot of walking home from the restaurant and taking cabs. It meant a lot of times I simply had to walk out of the house (he followed me from room to room, ranting). It meant that I had to calmly hang up when he started cursing me on the phone. <P>Sometimes I think, "I should have been the logical person in this marriage to have a protracted affair, given what I've been through." <P>In answer to your question about counseling: my H would have never gone to counseling had he not been arrested for assault. He is finally addressing some of his longterm issues with someone else, and I do notice a change in him. He relapses every now and then, but that's to be expected, given his living circumstances (he's living with a guy on probation for domestic assault). The short answer is that you cannot make them go to therapy. God knows that I tried and tried. It took my H getting arrested for him to get help. People with severe problems are always the very last ones to get the help they need. The only thing we can do is to fix ourselves so that we are more capable of dealing with their disorders.<P>BTW - even if you do not think that your spouse is BPD (borderline), I really recommend this book, because it has some conversational strategies to deal with people who lie consistently and people who tell falsehoods consistently. <P>belld

[QUOTE]Originally posted by belldandy:<BR>[B]Bernzini,<P>Yup. It's official. We *did* marry the same guy. <P>I am laughing my butt off here!!!<P>I got a baby bottle thrown once because I told him not use tap water in it--spring water. <BR>The day he took everything he "owned" and piled it up in front of the door because I had "pissed him off again." When, after about half an hour of flinging bedding and books all over the livingroom floor, and our house looked like the set of "Sanford and Son," he stood there and said "Do you want to talk about this?"<P>I am just screaming with laughter inside. Little boys grow up to be big men, but they basically don't change much after toilet training, do they?<P>Oh oh. I am slamming men, here. I'm sorry. Didn't mean for it to go that far.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Bernzini (edited August 15, 2000).]

LOL, Bernzini! Now when I look back on it, H's temper tantrums were ludicrous. He took all of my wooden spoons and beat them against the countertop so hard that they spintered and broke. At the time, I was reminded of a baby in a high chair tantruming and beating his spoon against his plate. <P>He kept his bag packed at the top of the stairs, ready to go, just in case I pi**ed him off. Sometimes all it would take is to look at him wrong. Swear. To. God. There have been times when he misconstrued a look that I gave him, got paranoid, and started ranting. One instance that I can think of is when I had just gotten off the phone with the vet, who told me that my beloved kitty had terminal cancer. Well, apparently my H didn't like the look of grief on my face and decided that I was unhappy with him. Instead of asking what was wrong, he launched into full attack mode. And there I was, having been given this devastating news, crumbling inside. <P>Oh - another really crazy thing that he did, and still does, which is typical of BPs. If we are talking on the phone, and there is someone in his presence whom he wants to impress upon the fact that his wife is looney, he will "pretend." He'll start into a rant. "I can't believe you said that! I can't believe - how DARE you call me that! You want what? You want money from me? How DARE you!"<P>And guess what? All along, I'm completely silent on the other end. Of course his friends are going to think that I'm egging him on. Thankfully, I taped the telephone conversations. If his friends ever heard the whole "story," they would run fast in the opposite direction!<P>belld

Belld,<P>Oops I thought you mentioned BIPOLAR not Borderline personality, although I think anything is a viable option at this point. I have it in my head that H may be Bipolar because of his mom, but I wonder if BPD is closer to what he has.<P>I really am going to get that book that you mentioned. It sounds perfect, especially if it helps to deal with someone who consistently lies.<P>Do they talk about what causes BPD? My H physically abused as a child and as I said his Mom is not on Bi Polar, but has OCD as well.<P>Thanks!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by belldandy:<BR> <BR>Still laughing!<P>I had a shirt-ripping scene, once, too! And thinking about it again makes me hysterical. He was standing there flexing those deltoids and pecs with rage, veins standing out all over his face, flames shooting out of his eyes, growling, teeth gritted, tearing at his shirt. All of the sudden, I just stopped talking and busted out laughing--he looked just like the Incredible Hulk!! I fully expected him to turn pea green. Of course, that only mad him madder when I laughed.<P>What is so heartbreaking now is that he tells me that the OW "Doesn't make him crazy like I do." And I stop to think, do I really make him that crazy? Did I do this to him? Am I really the one to blame? IS it really all my fault? I am searching my conscience for something that I did--am I the one who's wrong and just don't see?<P>But how COULD she make him crazy when all they ever did was chat on-line all week long, and she kissed his * and told him how gorgeous he was, how ambitious he was, how much more intelligent he was than her H, and then on the weekend, she would suck him all the down to the tootsie-roll center of his tootsie pop at Motel 6. She is SO wonderful !!! I AM a b**** after all!!!<P>Give me a break. <BR>

adamanteve:<P>No, Borderline Personality. My H meets 9 out of 9 DSM criteria. You have to be sure that certain criteria are met. BPD and Bi-Polars act remarkably the same, and remember that these personality disorders can also be present at the same time. Look up BPD on the web and you will see a list of criteria for which a person must meet in order to be diagnosed with BPD. Bi-Polar, too. My H does not fit the Bi-Polar DSM, however, because he did not engage in assaultive behavior using a weapon when he was a child or adolescent.<P>bernzini:<P>Your post made me howl, i.e., Incredible Hulk. My H did the same. He was wearing this really nice shirt that I bought for him on our last vacation to Central America, and he completely destroyed it by ripping it open. Every single button popped off. And he did indeed growl, like the incredible hulk! Sometimes you just gotta laugh, you know?<P>belld : )<BR>

BellD,<P>I went to <A HREF="http://www.mentalhealth.net" TARGET=_blank>www.mentalhealth.net</A> and they list the criteria and have an online diagnosis section. My H seems to fit both Borderline Personality disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I am not sure if he fits the BiPolar disorder completely because of the wording, but if he does it would be Bipolar II. <P>He is not physically violent thus far, but his anger is uncontrollable and seems disproportionate to the events that are happening. And lately he has been "in my face" about stuff which is very intimidating since he is 6'3" and weighs 280lbs.<P>Belld and Bernzini, does he make you out to be the psycho to everyone else? My H's family thinks I am so mean to him that I treat him like a slave. Ha! The only one who is a slave or more like a prisoner, is me. That infuriates me . Anyone who knows me knows that I am not that type of person and how much I do around here. I even read a letter from his mom saying how great he is and how horrible I am. And this was right after he had an affair! UGH! But she's a whole other story...

In answer to your question, yes, I am the bad guy. There is no one else to blame but me for my H's sorry lot in life. Well, there is the boss who fired him for coming in at one after months of staying out too late and drinking. He's to blame, too; and this was once a man my H had the utmost respect for. Then there is the "nosey neighbor" who phoned the police the night H was arrested. She is to blame. But no, he is not to blame.<P>My H has told me for several years that I have a bad psychiatric disorder, and even made me go to a psychiatrist. The shrink told me that he was abusing me, and that *he* needed help, and that I did not have any kind of personality disorder whatsoever. In fact, my only diagoses at this point are: Abused Wife Syndrome; and Situational Depression. It is quite common for BPs to accuse their spouse or loved one of being mentally ill and making *them* seek help. That's a big red flag.<P>BTW, join the "mother-in-law from hell" club. Seems to be a lot of us on this board who married Mommy's Boys.<P>belld

Belld:<P><BR>Yes, I am crazy, too. Actually, the word is "whacked." Or, what I get about ten times a day is: "Are you out of your freakin' mind?" <P>My little son picked up on that quickly. I have heard him echo, on occasion: "Mommy, are you out of your mind?" Just trying to be like his daddy, I guess.<P>Oh, the shrinks that I have been to trying to figure out what is "wrong" with me!!!<P>The last one I went to ref. the EA. H was not with me.<P>I said "Doc, please tell me what it is that I do--what is wrong with me? Am I FU in the head? Am I thoughtless and selfish? Am I not seeing what I do to destroy this relationship instead of foster it? Do I need drugs for the dark depression of mine, is that what it will take to get along with him?"<P>Doc sez "Girl, you are intelligent, motivated, hard-working, giving, self-aware, spiritually enlightened--and very beautiful. And this "dark depression" of yours is very well earned, you don't need drugs for it because it is conditional. The one thing that IS wrong with you--you are married to a [censored] who doesn't realize what he should be losing right about now. And that is the only reason why you should ever set foot in this office again."<P>I told H what the Doc said. No comment. It was my silent challenge to him to do the same--go to the shrink. But, no way. Going to counseling would be admitting to having a problem, and we can't do that, now can we?<P>I would figure that the simple act of going to a counselor would show him that I am ardent about fxing things--fixing myself, if needs be.<P>The night H pushed me against the bedroom wall (because I was "bothering" him about talking to me instead of sulking about whatever he had on his mind, that was the initial topic of the argument--"You should know better to leave me alone when I get like this.") I went to the hospital, the psyche ward. My command was called (I was still in the army then.) His command was called. BIG TIME trouble! Having a domestic incident on your record is no light matter in the military. It can kill a career. He has never forgiven ME for this incident. I got him into trouble, and he was COMMANDED to go to counseling. He went for two sessions to say he did. All better.<P>The previous was also a reason that he went astray--he told the OW that a relationship with me was dangerous to his career because of the volitile (SP) nature. Who's nature, in particular? Mine.<P>I told her "Just wait, honey. You'll see who is the real Predator." (Their nickname for me.)<P>Yeah, I am crazy. I love the guy very much, so I must be.<p>[This message has been edited by Bernzini (edited August 15, 2000).]

There is a web site NPD.com. On that site is a book by S. Vinkin "Malignant self-love" I believe. The full book is on line. It will open your eyes and make you weep. There is a book called "Narcissism and Intimacy" by Marion Solomon.<BR>I believe my husband is narcissistic. He lost a job/career a few years ago which deflated the grandiosity (a main element in narcissism) and there fore the depression became predominate and therefore he went into counseling. People with Narcissitic Personality Disorder are not the type to seek counseling unless something happens. If you look at a continuum, grandiosity is at one end and depression is at the other end. The grandiosity is a facade "a false self" they develop to cover up how bad they feel. If something happens that bursts that bubble (job loss, arrests) and they can no longer maintain the grand image they project about themself then the grandiosity is deflated and the depression comes out. It is at this point they will sometimes seek counseling.<BR>Terrance Real's book "I Don't Want To Talk About IT" deals with some aspects of this. His book is really about dysthymic Disorder, a form of depression, but he also discusses narcissism.<BR>Although it is hard to find research on it, some authors alude to the correlation between narcissism and affairs. I tried to do a literature review of the topic for a research class I was taking in grad school last year, but there was not enough out there. But I believe if research was done they would find a high correlation between the two for many reasons. First they feel they are entitiled to it. Second, it is hard for them to feel empathy for someone else, so they don't see how hurtful affairs are to their mates; Second since there is an underlying depression and they feel so lousy about themselves, the affairs make them feel better, temporaririly. Also they need constant mirroring. In other words because they don't feel good about themselves they need someone to tell them how wonderful they are all the time. After a while hearing it from the same source just doesn't have the same impact and they need someone new to tell them how wonderful they are for it to have an effect. There is a quote from a movie I love. In the movie "The woman" a woman is explaining to her daughter about her husband's affair. She says. When a woman is bored she buys a new dress or gets her hair done. When a man gets bored he needs a new mirror to look at so he has an affair.<BR>Well, I hope this helps.

hw:<P>Thanks for the enlightening post. You quite aptly described the way the NPD component has affected my H. No empathy. My telling him he's good enough isn't ... well, it's not good enough. He has to have the approval of the whole world. And unless they give it to him unconditionally, as is, with no changes, with all the b.s. he dishes out, then they are labeled "evil" (BPD rearing its head). <P>Bernzini:<P>My H was arrested for domestic assault as well, and is in counseling. He's doing much better at managing his temper, however, he said the same damned thing - that it's "dangerous for him to be around me" because I might call the cops on him. I told him the answer was simple: don't hit me, threaten me, or behave in an otherwise abusive manner, and the police will not be called, by me or anyone else in our condo complex. <P>We share the same story. Odd. Question: did your H make you go to shrink after shrink, psychologist after psychologist, simply because they didn't say what he wanted to hear? Every professional I've seen has told me that my H is an abuser. Even one we saw together told me that he was an abuser. My H tells me that I "lie" to these people to get them to say what I want to hear. I asked him, "Do you think I *want* someone to tell me that you are abusive? Don't you think that hurts me?" <P>Final analysis: my H will not be satisfied until someone in the mental health field tells me that everything is all my fault - including how my H has behaved - that I deserve what I got from him, that I'm lucky I didn't get beaten up, and that I am very, very mentally ill. That's what he wants someone to tell me. And it ain't gonna happen.<P>Oh, here I go. Topic drift. Look, if you want to email me at any time to kvetch about this, my eddress is: belldandy112@yahoo.com.<P>Take care, everyone - <P>belld

HW,<P>Thanks so much for that info on Narcissism. You have definitely described my H. He really fits that NPD completely...unfortunately. He seeks constant admiration and praise. He seeks out people who tell him he's wonderful and great and magnificent. And as you were saying, it kinda grows old with one person after a while they look for a new one. His Mom is the worst one for this. She has told him his whole life that he is great, wonderful, perfect even when he does bad things. She told him she was proud of him for having an affair. How twisted is that???? But I do get the sense that he really no longer believes her. She goes way overboard, outside the realm of reality. Maybe her lack of sincerity doesn't fill that "need" he has.<P>When I first met him I did think he was the best guy I'd ever met. In fact, everyone who meets him thinks he's so caring and wonderful. But after I got to know him that feeling faded. I saw the dark side. There is a side to him that is almost "sinister". He's angry and brooding and very controlling. When he gave nothing back to me and was starting to lie to me I became depressed. Once I was depressed I no longer could meet that need of his--telling him wonderful and great he is because quite frankly I no longer felt he was so wonderful or great. So he went off seeking someone new whom he could hide his "dark side" from, hence his affairs.<P>Willbok99 posted a good link on NPD and I went there read all about it. My H seems to just fit the description. I am hoping that this new counselor will be able to help him, but I realize that this may never get resolved and I just don't want to stay in something that is harmful to myself or my son.<P>Does your H seem to "get in his head" a lot? My H intellectualizes all the time. Although apologizes it seems very insincere, like there is no feeling behind it. It's almost like an appeasing thing. I read that NPD people fear abandonment so much that they CAUSE their own abandonment. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy.<P>Anyway, thanks for the info. This whole topic amazes me. I just always thought Narcissists were these great looking guys who were stuck on themself. Boy was I wrong.

Oh, thanx so much, you guys, on your info on narcissism; I am burning to go check out these references--but one question: Knowing all I can about narcissism, what can I possibly do to help someone who not only doesn't want help, but doesn't think he needs help? Anything at all? Or do I just understand him and learn to live with it? The last option is not so bad, I guess, if we can ever get over the EA. <P>Of course he doesn't need help--he is Mr Universe, God's gift to the world, the King of the Castle. . .. Why would anyone who's perfect need help? Silly question.<P>I know as well as anybody that my H is working hard to cultivate his own magnified self-image, possibly to compensate in for huge voids in his life. And the OW was necessary to help stroke his ego. She stroked everything, bigtime.<P>Bell--you said something interesting yesterday about Momma's Boys. I thought about it all day, and it hasn't been the first time that I ever thought about it.<P>Never should I question him. Never should I contradict him. Never should I tell him that he is less than he thinks he is--I am looking for a fight, if I do. Funny, but the only things that I have ever really demanded of him was that he keep his boots off the couch and to not clean up the coffee spilled on the floor with a clean towel (use a dirty one.) Can you imagine that these two incidences were a couple of out worst fights? It's because I "criticized" him.<P>I am seeing the same patterns of behavior in my little son. If I discipline my son and tell him that something he did was naughty, he cries "You don't love me!" If my child doesn't get a new toy every time we go to town, then I am a "bad mommy." <P>One of the many days that I refused to buy him a toy on a shopping trip--a very necessary shopping trip, which required concentration--my son howled. Then he berated me. He said "Mom, how could you treat a little kid like me this way? You only think of yourself. You only go to the store to buy things for yourself. (Yes, groceris and toiletries.) My dad always gets me stuff. My dad loves me more. You don't love me. You are the meanest mommy in the world, and I hate you! I want my dad!" If the child was grating on my nerves so bad, I would have laughed--he sounded exactly like his father!! (And I told his father this, which earned me another berating from the senior male member of the family.)<P>I can do something about my child, who is the absolute light of my light; I can raise him with discipline and teach him self-control. But what about my husband--he's already been raised, and I can do nothing about how he was!<P>Belld--I would love to talk to you. You seem to be living with a grown-up spoiled brat, too, and if it helps to talk about it--I am your devoted listening ear!! <P>mary579@hotmail.com<p>[This message has been edited by Bernzini (edited August 15, 2000).]

Bernzini:<P>In spite of the tragedy of bipolar disorders, borderline personality disorders and narcissic behaviors, I've been sitting here reading these posts and LMAO. Maybe I am just loosing my mind, because everything is funny to me now.<P>Mt husband was dianosed with bipolar I disorder in January 2000. <BR>Until he lost his sobriety in January 1998, he had been sober for nearly 18 years. During those 18 years, he would exhibit behavior similar to what you and Belldandy have described. <BR>I realized that the reason I stayed in the marriage was because his behavior was 'CYCLICAL'. Every year for twenty years my husband would have three or four outrageous tantrums/episodes where he would rant, scream, call me filthy disrespectful names, and on occasion, get somewhat physical. <BR>The rest of the time, he was sweet, considerate, loving, attentive and FAITHFUL. <BR>His tantrums weren't something that I couldn't deal with. I was willing to put up with a lot because we had exclusivity, and to me, THAT was the most important thing of all to me...it made it worth it.<BR>I overlooked my husband's quarterly bouts of insanity because I knew that my husband would never cheat on me, would never betray me, would rather die than loose what we had. It was a trade off.<P>On night, I asked his then-nine-year-old son who was living with us to take his laundry basket downstairs. The kid replied, "Take it down yourself you bit**". My jaw dropped and I stood there speechless. <BR>Spouse walks into the hallway where we are standing and says to me, "What did you do to upset the boy?" <BR>"ME?! What did I do to upset the BOY??" I was incredulous. I explained what I had asked him to do and what he had said to me and my spouse says to me, "Perhaps you should watch your tone of voice when you talk to him."<P>At this point, I am still incredulous, thinking that I must be hallucinating or I must be Alice and I am in the Looking Glass. <BR>I then tell spouse that he's insane and completely illogical and ask him why he would try to make me out the bad guy. <BR>Suddenly he grabs me and squeezes my face and presses his forhead against mine and screams filthy names in my face and then pushed me backwards into a laundry basket.<P>I am thrown into the laundry basket and land with a thud. I am like a turtle on its back, not able to get out and having this huge man stand looming over me screaming at me.<P>One of the next times he has his 'period', I cook chicken breast in sour cream, make boiled potatoes and salad and bring a tray for him while he's watching tv in the living room. I knew something was wrong-I could 'feel' it. He was ready to blow about something; the whole house had this horrible oppressive feel to it. I ignored it and was cheerful. I placed his dinner in front of him and when I walked away, he picked up the entire chicken breast and flung it at the fireplace in front of him and it exploded and splattered all over the bricks. The cat ran over to the chicken and started his dining experience and I stood there horrified, wondering what kind of man did I marry?<P>Just some early examples of insanity.<P>I feel like you do, too...what did I do to force him to be so manical? What did I do to force him to betray me and get some stranger pregnant and change my life forever? I wonder what was the catalyst for his destructive behavior. The bipolar diagnosis has given me an explanation and some peace.<P>Why on earth would a predatory OW call YOU a 'predator'? That doesn't make sense, that doesn't fit...you didn't stalk her husband or her, you didn't intrude yourself into HER life, she intruded herself into yours when she willing f***** a man she knew was married. THAT'S a predator.<P>Reading that really ticked me off. Who the he** do these ugly, evil people think they are? They come into our lives uninvited, ruin everything, break our hearts, hurt our families and then hate us and call us names. I am, as always, incredulous. Incredulous at the lack of dignity, decorum and grace in our society, coupled with the fact that no one seems to honor or respect marriage anymore in our 'throw-away' society...so tragic.<P>Bipolar disorder has outrageous behavior that brings on tragic consequences. I may not have the disease, but, I, like you, suffer the fallout with situational depression, anxiety and panic disorders brought on by not feeling safe, not being able to have any control. <P>Catnip =^^=