I agree that this one time in your whole relationship probably doesn't mean your H is an abuser. But you need to not only state your limits to him....but follow thru. <P>It's a good idea to become more independent for your own sake. And I think you're right...it will give him a chance to prove that his "promises" are for real.<P>I'm not one of those people who thinks animals are the same as kids, but the thought of him kicking that dog just eats me up. I don't have kids and if it weren't for my two black labs, I'd have been a gonner by now. They give me so much unconditional "love" and some days are the only living contact I have with anything! I hope your dog is okay.<P>I'm with you though.....no one, you, me, anyone....deserves to be treated that way. I believe in second chances and all, but there are just some lines that cannot be crossed twice.<P>God bless you and give you strength. And your kids too. My prayers are with you.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs. O

Peppermint and Mrs. O,<P>10 to 1 Fido didn't make it.<P>What animal could being kicked over 10 times by a full grown man in an uncontrollable rage wearing steel toe shoes?<P>I think that's why Genie's ignoring the question. <P>Afraid it might make her "non-abusive" H look a little less forgiveable to the rest of us.

Hello.<BR>Just some words of advice, or information. <BR>It sounds like you are in a very verbally, emotionally abusive relationship, if not physical too. My wife was married once before me- to a verbally,emotionally,mentally, and physically abusive man. It made her cringe just to read this. She was with this man for almost two years. He had never abused her before the marriage, only afterwards. He put her cat in the oven! for her refusal to do something. He beat her violently, putting her in the hospital at times. She was pregnant as well, during the abuse. He hit her with belts, tools, etc. Just a very bad situation. It took her a long time to leave. Partly out of humiliation- letting everyone know, and partly because she was young, and pregnant with his child. She was scared. She left several times before the final and last time.<BR>She left, and had somewhere to go- her parents. They gave her a roof over her head, but she worked. She had to get assistance from the state for childcare, she also got cash assistance. She found this humiliating to a degree, but knew that it was better than getting beaten emotionally and physically every day. She went back to school (college)- and made something of her life. Afterwards she looked back on the situation and knew that it wasn't love that she felt for him. He had taken what feelings she did have for him and completely destroyed them. She too at the time, thought that she was the one overreacting, that she was crazy. He told her this so many times, put her down so many times that she started believing him. <BR>PLEASE don't let this happen to you. She suffered greatly, and is still hurt by her experience. It is obvious that you are in at least an emotionally abusive relationship. My wife stood by and watched her cat being put in the oven, helpless, not knowing what to do. She tried to get him to stop, but she got more beatings. She came home from work one night and her three month old son had a black, swollen bottom- bruises all over. That was the final straw for her. She didn't want her son being abused, and didn't want her son to grow up living in fear of his father, or grow up like him! <BR>The decision for her to leave was a very difficult one- she had to admit to everyone what was really going on, she had to make it on her own, and she was scared to death. But it was worth it for her, and it will be worth it for you.<BR>Please don't let your children see any more violence. I don't mean to sound... bossy in any way. =) I just know the scars that she has, and I hate to see anyone else questioning their sanity, and suffering in an abusive relationship.<BR>You can make it. You can make it for you. And you can make it for you children.<BR>Please take care.

I have just read another post by you- as well as my wife. I think that you are in denial. She stayed with him, he sweet talked her, said he was soo sorry, that he saw the problems in their marriage, he saw the problems in him and that he was going to work on it. It wasn't a few days afterwards that he started abusing her again. Please don't let yourself be fooled. Anyone who would act that violently against you and an animal, is not going to just quit. She had let herself be fooled that he was going to change so many times. Please don't let this happen to you, and please be careful. From what you have said, you are being abused, and there is no excuse for that. Please think of your children, and your dog!<BR>We are praying for you.<BR>Please be careful.<BR>As I say all of this I know it's most likely not to do any good. My wife said that countless people told her the same thing, that he wasn't going to change, etc. Yet, she refused to listen to them, and believed him, and in him. She has said that there is absolutely nothing anyone can do. That it has to be a personal decision. So, I hope that you do listen to the advice of others, and listen to you head, - you will make it.

I would hope that you are listening to Leilana. I don't mean to be curt, but what your husband did to your dog, that's abusive and against the law. And people who abuse animals will take the next step, whether it be tomorrow or next year. I admit I love dogs, I have two and they are my babies. If anyone so much as touched a hair on them I would...<P>But I'm thinking you need to re-evaluate where you are, and if this admission of your husband's is just a bandaid to the problems that he really carries. I would hope you wouldn't allow him to mistreat anyone else like this, even a dog.

Genie,<BR>Seems like everyone's getting you on the bandwagon out of there. I hope we're not overwhelming you or making you feel reluctant to continue posting here. Please keep on posting here. We're not trying to scare you. We just care about you a lot. <P>I'd like to share a story with you if I may. It was back when the OJ trial was going on. I worked in a big office building where a display was placed in the lobby. It was lifesize silhouettes of women. Bright red women. Lots of them. Each figure had a story. Each figure represented a domestic violence homicide victim. It was indescribable how moving it was. But keep reading... that's not my point. <P>Every person who saw the display was deeply moved. It got people talking. I had worked in that building for 8 years. I thought I didn't know anyone who had been a victim of domestic violence. I was totally aghast at how many people I worked with had been victims. It was an eye opener I can tell you. You may know people too that will understand you better than you could ever imagine. <P>I want to share with you Genie some of what I learned from these women. Each story had remarkable similarities. The most dangerous point in time for them was after they left (H's would track them down and demand they return). They also said it required a plan. You'll need to have a place to go and be able to pack up yourself and your kids on short notice. I hope you never need it Genie, but please find your local women's shelter and practice packing up what you need in five minutes. You need a plan that you will hopefully never need to use. <P>

First of all....<P>Although I appreciate all of your replies I must say to Leilana that I do resent your sarcasum about Fido and the comment about me avoiding the question!!!!<P><B>#1: Her name isn't Fido <BR>#2: She is just fine. </B><P>As far as denial.... I see it as something that people don't necessarily even recognize but in my case I really don't feel that is the case. Do I fear my H? <B> NO!!!!</B><BR>I am just an old country girl living in the city, for the most part I am a loving, mild mannered person but don't think for a minute that I can't break red myself!!! If it was a case of real abuse... I would have no problem at all with leaving... that I can assure you.<P>I don't approve of what my H did in the slightest and I made it perfectly clear that I would not tolerate it!!!<P>There are cases where women are in denial and don't recognize the situation for what it is and I know that and believe that is a very serious situation but let me ask you a question....<P>How does a woman defend herself against ones that jump on this band wagon and won't let go? If someone has a bad experience but something that isn't or hasn't been an ongoing situation convince others that they are not in denial?<P>Listen folks.... I really do appreciate the care and concern that you all have shown but isn't possible that perhaps this is just a little over-reactive?<P>As far as my other posts.... I guess I have somewhat painted a poor picture. I have basically posted when things have been difficult and not so much while things are good. So I guess that in a way I have only been showing you all one side of the story. That would be my mistake.<P>Once I felt like a weaker woman that could be manipulated and fooled by the charms of a man but I also feel like I have come to a place in my life where that is no longer the case.<BR>The funny thing is that after this all happened, my mother was sent something by a friend of hers. She read it to me the other night and it was as if it had been written about me. I can't remember all of it from memory and therefore I won't even attempt to recite it. However, I am going to get a copy of it and when I do I will post it here. Believe me it was very powerful, I hope you all will look for it.<P>But until then... I do thank you for all of your replies but I still don't agree that my H is a classic textbook case of what they say is an "abuser"... but rather I would say that he had 1 incident of going overboard and being abusive.<P>1 drink does not an alcoholic make... and that is also how I see this.<P>This is a very passionate situation for many and I can appreciate that but I think that we need to be a little more realistic about this and not blow it out of total preportion.<P>Genie<BR>

Genie,<P>I use sarcasm to get people to answer a question after it's been asked several times and there's no answer.<P>Works every time.<P> <P><BR>Believe your H if you want. <P>Believe we're overreacting if you want.<P>Stay if you want.<P>Give your dog away to a nice home where it won't get beaten to a pulp if someone is having a bad day. <P>Aloha,<P>L<p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited August 03, 2000).]

Genie...<P>I'll agree that 1 incident does not necessarily make an abuser. I also believe that all humans have the potential for violence given the right circumstances. I think that the 1 incident just makes us (me anyway) worry that his potential for violence may be closer to the surface than most. That does not necessarily mean it will lead to anything, just that it could...thus all the concern. Hey, at least we care !!!<P>I'm glad you have drawn boundaries, and that your H has indicated a willingness to abide by them. Hope all goes well...<P>Kathi<P>

Genie,<P>I'm not jumping on the band wagon. <P>

{{{{{{{GENIE}}}}}}}}<P>I am not able to read all your replies on this but I feel your pain in your post.<P>Take some time to really think about this and maybe some counseling just for you. What do YOU want?? I remember thinking about those "retaliation" affairs and all at one point.<P>But there is a better life and a better way. You can achieve any goal you set out for.<P>Take your time, think long and hard because its a whole different world on the other side. <P>Can you and H get away on a romantic getaway ALONE??<P>Prayers and hugs, <BR>Dana<BR>

Hi Genie -<P>My goodness.....such an outpouring of concern for you!! I am sure that you appreciate all of it. Nowadays this "violence" stuff is all too prevelant in this world of ours and as soon as an "episode" occurs everyone thinks the worst......<P>Knowing your story.....as well as I can just from here, I do realize that the incident was unique and borne out of frustration, anger, fear about the child being hurt and the recent confused upheaval that life has been!! We all need to realize HOW DEEPLY we can be effected by our own emotions!!!<P>They can simply overwhelm us...that is what I believe happened to your H.<P>I have to be one of the most mild-mannered people around...and I LOVE MY DOG!!! But you know what? When emotions take over and My mind is frantic.....I have found that even I can take it out on her - not to the extent your H did, but I jerked her leash VERY hard when walking and she didn't listen to me!!!! She yelped!!!<P>I didn't mean to hurt her.....It was just one too many frustrations for me to handle at that MOMENT!!!!<P>Did I regret it later.....ABSOLUTELY!!<P>Did I feel AWFUL about it..DEFINITELY!!<P>Could I have stopped myself...APPARENTLY NOT!!!!<P>I know that this may not seem as bad as kicking over and over.....but it is the same principle. He broke....PERIOD!!<P>He regrets it, I am sure and now he is aware of what it caused!!! That alone is a good way to the cure.<P>Now....enough said on that incident!!!<P>SO GLAD that you and he talked....<P>I want to ask you though, did you and he come up with SPECIFICS for him to be doing to "work" on this marriage? Or is it the general "working on things"?<P>I think that you need some definitive steps here, Genie!!!<P>First, both of you should begin speaking with the Harleys....forget traditional counseling, the over the phone way may be exactly the best approach for you both!!!! I MEAN THIS.....you have to start implementing changes!!!! You have seen that without specifics things do not proceed......don't waste more time.<P>Second, you need to tell him EXACTLY what you want/need.....make sure that you are understood!!! You know that exercise of one person listening and the other repeating back? START doing that with him.<P>I say that because he said that he didn't see things the way that you did.<BR>That's a very big clue to what you two need to improve with your communication.<P>If you want to have changes....then you don't sit back and "wait" for them to magically appear...you have the knowledge (from being here, etc.) of HOW to get things going in the right direction......USE IT!!!!!<P>Don't expect him to know how to do this, just like you didn't know it all before you came here......<P>He will need direction......you know the destination.....<P>Time to pull together!!!!!<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba

My 0.02 worth (in inflation battered cents):<P>Run like he11. I grew up around guys like this. A good friend from a long time ago wound up with a broken jaw. Twice.<P>Run. Run. Run.<P>Bama

Sheba...<P>I must say that I so appreciate your reply. I am glad to hear that someone else can see that 1 incident doesn't a abuser make.<BR>My H loves this dog... he is her pride and joy just as much as she is mine. She is "OUR" old faithful. She sleeps with us every night usually beside him actually. She goes hiking with him, kayaking with us, camping with us, or just for a ride. He loves her and takes much pride in her.<BR>She is somewhat of a large dog but not too big but she is very strong and muscular as she is 1/2 chow and 1/2 lab. I think that he wanted to make a definate impression on her because of her strength and the damage that she could do to our small son if he wanted. But he did carry it quite too far and I beleive that he sees that now too. Did he feel bad of course he did.<P>As far as we are concerned and the question that you had about what we were going to do?<P>I have a set of 12 tapes that are a seminar on marriage and how to improve and create a loving marriage. I have had these for quite some time and he has promised that we will finally watch them together. I do truly think they will help alot. I have watched a few and they really are great!!!<P>As far as the communicating thing, we did find out the other night when we talked that even though we talked.... we had a definate problem with interpretation. In that I would say one thing meaning it one way and he would interperet it in a complete different way that would have a different meaning therefore causing a serious breakdown in communication. We are going to work on that too.<BR>Also there has been a definate problem with quality time together. So we are in search of a babysitter so that we can go out more and do things together again and learn to have some fun together again which I think is sooooo very important.<P>I have hopes but after all that has happened, I have learned not to get them up to high and to keep a level head on my shoulder at the same time.<P>Genie

Hi Genie,<BR>I hope for all the best in your efforts to renew your relationship with H. Maybe we had a group "Maximus Morphonius" reaction to your situation (MM is a Florida judge who would really throw the book gavel and bench at someone if she discovered a criminal act included injury to an animal). I hope and pray that the posts urging you to leave are overreactions. <P>I will also repeat my suggestion about deciding where you would go if you had to leave and what would you take with you. Disasters come in many flavors, and every person on this planet has the potential need of clearing out fast. A "disaster plan" is something that everyone should have. Excuse me while I go get some gallons of water. Here it is hurricane season and I'm not even practicing my own advice.

You are in exactly the position that I am afraid I will end up in if I stay with my husband who has cheated on me for the first time.<P>For me, I don't have children, so it would be easier to break up, but I don't want to make the wrong decision. <P>I think you need to put yourself first. Write down on paper why you should stay and why you should leave. That will tell you alot about what to do.<P>LIfe is a precious gift and if you are going to be unhappy, you might as well find happiness on your own!<P>Good luck!