This is for JNVC.....God I know how you feel. I am so glad you were intune enough to "catch it". the problem is that..at least to me....the emotional stuff is worse than the physical! Even though they (supposedly) haven't actually had sex...if they have been kissing horizontaly and discussing the very private personal matters of their life then that is very serious!! I know I sound harsh saying supposedly in the above, but one thing I have found out is that you will NEVER know the TRUTH about what has gone on unless you are a fly on the wall. this is true for both the OW, who hears all sorts of things about how "nothing" goes on in the bedroom of her MM and also true for the BW/BH who hears the kidn of thing you heard. You just don't know and YOU NEVER WILL. the important thing now is that you and your wife (I hope) want to make every effort to work out your marriage and move past this. If need be, then do exactly what the priest recommends.....even if your children don't understand it....by the way, they won't know why for sure if you don't tell them. Be protective of your marriage and family, regardless of what anyone thinks!! It is clear from your post that you are a man that cares very much for your wife and family.....do what you need to do. Believe me when I say that intimacy is more valuable to awoman than sex ever could be....be intimate with your wife and protect your marriage....I hope this helps...I am a BW myself and do know the pain it causes.Even 1 more than that I am the BW of someone who went back for more! Anytime you would care to chat about this just e-mail me....**edit** <P>------------------<BR>~Hope~

This is a reply to the reply that Duck and Weave's BO's sent....I hope they see it...I work with someone who has an ongoing affair..they are both married and both claim to be "committed" to their own marriages (what a joke) in that neither intend to leave their spouses. One of the games she plays (as the OW) is to make sure she positions herself in his sight at times that are very crucial...for example, he goes to church (I almost want to say this is a joke, but I only pray God's Word will convict his heart)with his wife and almost-grown chldren every Sunday and she makes sure she is out somewhere where he can see her ---with his eyes---when he is with his family, on his way home from church. That is, needless to say, SICK!!!!!, but it is just an example of some of the game-playing that goes on. Continue to be cautious....even change your routine, if you have one..so that she wouldn't have an inkling of where you may be at a given time. If you are confiding in someone that knows both of you........STOP!! You never know if they are relaying information as to your whereabouts or your plans (possibly even without realizing the effects of it), ect.. I only wish MY H would follow this advice. Please do this for your own self and for your family. <P>------------------<BR>~Hope~

To Brynn!!!!!!! I have made one reply to you and this is another. I truly believe with all my heart that my H wants this marriage to work...This is whst he should have done and what I wish with all my heart he would do.......If your OM calls again, assuming you really want to make YOUR marraige work....go the distance and tell him this....."I CANNOT AND WILL NOT TALK TO YOU ANYMORE! MY HUSBAND MEANS TOO MUCH TO ME!" and hang up. Your OM will not call you back.I promise!! Also TELL YOUR H about it. This will do wonders at building his self-esteem and his feelings toward the marriage with you....believe me they could use a boost! If you do, and I am betting somehow that you won't (unfortunately), you will have REALLY ended it and given your marriage a great big booster shot all at the same time! Please think of the future and what you REALLY want. Please understand I am writing this form the point of view of someone who has been and is there...<P>------------------<BR>~Hope~

For Hope3<BR>I got your meanings...thanks, but at this time I don't think we are pulling from the sports team, my son is 15 and very sharp, I am sure both he and my 17 yr daughter might even have suspicions , just the way we are acting now, Like a coupld of newly weds!.<BR>So we pray daily with each other and about the sitsuation. Yes we have a friend I confide in about this stuff, he is one of the<BR>pastors so I dont think he will tell. <BR>Our first game is tomorrow, so we will see how it goes, my W might not go even, not sure if I can handle it with them in that close of proximity. I am sure their minds will drift back to the "day in the park!" <BR>back in early Sept. I caught this on 9/8.<BR>I will update later. <P>------------------<BR>jnvc<BR>

Brynn-<BR>Hi, my H told me he replied on this thread so I read it and had a few things I wanted to say. First, let me say I can only imagine how hard it must be I am the betrayed and it is a little hard to see from your view point but I do have feelings and I know that we can't help what we feel but we can manage our feelings. Of course this guy still rattles your cage emotionally-your love bank with him is still full. Your love bank with your H is relatively low because it doesn't seem like you are allowing him to make deposits. If something had happened between the two of you and it was your decision to break it off (like you caught him(OM) cheating on you)it would have cost him a bundle from the old love bank but...it doesn't sound like that's the case. His deposit is just sitting there accruing interest. The only way to get past it is to totally avoid anything to do with him so his balance isn't right there in the forefront again. You've got to ALLOW your H to start building the balance up on his side. I've discovered (the hard way) it is so much easier to love when it's a two way street. You've got to meet his needs in order for him to be able to meet yours.<P>I know this is kinda a lame comparison but look at an addicted smoker-<BR>They try to quit again again and again but always fail why? and what makes them finally succeed? They CHOOSE to quit.<BR>They think they can't possibly go without they will go crazy-do they? Has anyone ever? No but the urge is strong and very genuine to them none the less.<BR>Most smokers would probably tell you after they have quit for a while the urge may hit them periodically but they also look back at how stupid and sickening that addiction was, I think if you CHOOSE to move on you will feel that way about your OM.<P>Hope3-<BR>The church thing with us was a definite issue, she didn't decide that's where she needed to be until after discovery, (she was my best friend, and made no bones about not liking to go to church but went to be with us....er, Him. SHe started out sitting on the other side and she brazenly moved to within a few pews, she liked to sit in front of us. One time at the movies, she and her family came in after the movie had started and there were about 8 people in the whole theater and as chance (right) would have it she sat on the row in front of us with herself being placed directly in front of my H, she was close enought I could've reached out and slapped her head (and the thought did cross my mind) but God was near and the film broke so we had a great excuse to leave. It was awkward when the lights came on and she turned around and we were there, She started giggling with her maniacal laugh and I just said, "Kinda like a really bad dream, isn't it?" Nightmare more like it.<P>Once we made the decision to leave (it was definately hard since we had attended there for about 20yrs. and both our boys had been there their entire lives 9 and 12), things got better, we had been going back to square one every sunday and those came to be really bad days for me and I didn't like the way I was starting to feel about going to church.<P>It seems as though us leaving, which she knew was a difficult thing for us, brought her to reality. She had been popping up in many of the places we would be and now that seems to have stopped. I think it was giving her somewhat of a false hope thinking he would see her enough he wouldn't be able to help himself and go back to her. When in reality from our viewpoint-her stupid behavior and blaming attitude(she said she was a victim because she was depressed-depressed is not the word I use, conniving and manipulative seem to be better word choices, but anyway) these things she did actually made major withdrawals and it wasn't long before he saw things as they really are/were. He understands we weren't we should have been for a number of reasons one being the guilt and so forth made it hard for him to meet my needs and then I didn't meet his and it became a vicious circle. Although the affair was never sexual emotional seems to run just as deep and whoever made the comment to the effect of that matters more to a woman is so on target. Sex for men can be detached but when a man gives his heart to a woman emotionally -that almost takes an act of congress so we don't like to share that.<P>jnvc-<BR>Our older son and OW son will be playing ball in the same league (thankfully not the same team) and I too am a little anxious about that. All the kids know what is going on and prior to all this our kids were best friends. My oldest son, 12, has come to see how devastated I was and the pain his friends mother was causing me and he understands as well as a 12 yr old can. <P>This whole ugly mess is just a product of the selfish society me-centered society we live in. We think we deserve whatever it is we want even if it belongs to someone else and are so used to being a throw away society that we don't want to work to fix whatever is broken, we want to disgard it and replace with something new because after all we deserve it, right? Hogwash, it's time we started taking care of our things by doing the necessary maintenance, reading manuals, installing upgrades and doing a little spit and polish once in a while. Gee, that sounds a little preachy doesn't it? Maybe I should either run for office or become a TV evangelist. Can I get an AMEN?<P>Sorry to get on the soapbox, did I even help you a little teeny tiny bit?<P>Choice, not chance, determines destiny.<P>Duck and Weave

Hi Brynn,<P>I read what you wrote below:<P>"I am strong about my efforts when I talk about the situation...but...very weak when I am alone with my thoughts."<P>Yeah, I've been there bigtime. Sometimes I feel I'm my own worst enemy. That I resisted letting go of my OM because it was something so beautiful, so perfect. This is the fantansy of withdrawal. It is very, very hard to be strong and resist when we're alone. I know how hard it is. I have found that we need to change our lives around so we're in happy moments, and don't let yourself be alone too much, and when you are for example even driving in your car, I don't listen to the radio anymore, too many sad songs that can trigger my OM's memory, I have tapes I put in, with upbeat songs. I even put my wedding song tape in my car and I play that when I get really down. I know there will be times when there's no avoiding it, but time will help, I promise.<P>Brynn, have you considered counseling? Maybe individual counseling first so you can really discuss everything your feeling. When did you first realize that you were unhappy in your marriage? Was it after the affairs started? Did you feel lonely? Do you feel your husband should give you more attention? I think we long to feel the love we felt from our OM because they made us feel so special, loved, that we were the most important thing in the world to them, but that is that passion, that beginning stage of love, along with all the fantansy that they would solve all our problems, life with them would be so much better. All that would change over time. Did you have that in the beginning of your marriage? Maybe that's what you keep searching for.<P>No contact will allow these feelings to fade, it's the only way. Your OM is being very selfish, he's not thinking of anyone but himself. Think about that. Think about your OM's bad qualities that will help in moving on, think of all the good qualities in your husband, how much he loves you and is trying.<P>Time does heal, I promise and your doing the right thing. Your marriage is forth fighting for.