Oh yes...<BR>...the soap opera continues...<BR>(see <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/004332.html" TARGET=_blank>Biological Father just called!</A>)<P>I met with my (step)son's Biological Father today (... for 3 hours...)<P>This was unbelievable...<P>1. Yes... He is a Christian Minister... ordained in 1994 (started in 1991/1992)<BR>... He's converted from Catholicism to the Jahovah's Witness...<BR>...but was not pushy at all... especially with me...<BR>... no alcohol, smoking, extramarital sex... as an ordained minister...<BR>...Bibles, Concordances, Dictionaries.... all over his apartment...<BR>...Personal references checked out…<BR>...I could tell by the way he spoke... he was trained in scripture...<BR>...Ministers at a local Christian Center... about 2 miles away<BR>...There go anything ideas of him being "stalker"-like, like my W told our son.<P>2. This man, genuinely cares about the welfare of his "natural" son.<BR>... He said he'd be patient in establishing any contact with son...<BR>... He doesn't want to upset my relationship with son...<BR>……either with me or his mom<BR>… He wants some kind of relationship… but recognizes it as not being a traditional father-son relationship … mostly a friendship relationship.<BR>... Is now aware of what happened to SSA benefit money, my W has squandered (I told him)<BR>……he said if he could help get the SSA money back… he would…<BR>... Is willing to help <B>me</B> personally… to not upset son's life...<BR>... Is willing to contribute to son's post-HS education<BR>... Gave me some of the few pictures he had of son... for me to give to son<BR>…… (I gave him some new ones too… very gratefully accepted them)<BR>... Asked if it was OK to give son a "belated" graduation gift<P>3. Yes he is disabled...<BR>...was in a car accident in 1992 ... was close to death… had partial paralysis<BR>...had 6 spinal cord surgeries in the last 5 years...<BR>...uses crutches when the pain is too great<BR>...is on steroids, and cortizone shots (has weight gain to prove it)<BR>...has developed artheritis<BR>...but is <B>not</B> now wheelchair bound.<P>4. He was ever so grateful in how I raised his "natural" son<BR>...He was glad to hear of the ways son developed...<BR>......especially NO drugs, NO sex, NO alcohol (for me and son)<BR>....Glad to hear of school accomplishments (JrROTC)<BR>... Was gald to hear son was NOT interested in the military<BR>......(although I think son could use the discipline)<BR>...He was grateful for the upbringing in a nice home<BR>...and reiterated over and over again his desire to help financially<P>5. We discussed my W (his XW)...<BR>... WOW...<BR>... WOW...<BR>... WOW...<BR>... We talked about the similarities of how W treated both of us on the onslaught of the divorces<BR>... The lying and complete fabrication of facts<BR>... Her anger... her ill-mannered actions<BR>… Her very apparent greed<BR>... Her lack of care for any relationship between father and children<BR>… He warns me to fight for everything… for the kids…<BR>……that my W took advantage of his good nature<BR>………(she allowing only every 3rd weekend visitation… until it stopped completely after a year)<BR>………(accepting cash payments for CS… and then claiming to not get them)<BR>………(completely giving in to divorce wishes… and annulment filing)<BR>… He was very sympathetic to what I was going through<P>…The similarities between him and me are astounding…<BR>…… interest in same music<BR>…… both had appendicitis while married<BR>…… his house # is 152 (so was mine for over 20 years)<BR>…… treatment by W during divorce<BR>…… my desire to become an deacon… his becoming a Christian Minister<BR>…… the growth in faith(s) during/after divorce<P>-----------------------------------------------------<P>This was a very unusual experience for me.<P>My son was supposed to talk with his mother again...<BR>...but she hasn't called yet.<P>I still think that for my son to know his natural father…<BR>…could not hurt him.<P>It may, if anything, bring him to the realization that his mom has truly been telling gross lies about his natural father… and coupled with the lies he already knows she has told me… may give him second thoughts of the reputability of his mom.<P>My son is still leary about meeting his natural father…<BR>…in time… they will meet.<BR>It's just taking my son some time to acclamate to this change in his defined "relationships".<P>Prayer for him… me… and his natural father.<BR>(his mom too)<P> <P>Jim

Hey, can I get syndication rights??? <P>You're doing great, Jim. Wow indeed!!!

Thanks for the update Jim.<P>He sounds like a good guy. Give your boy time. I bet curiosity will overcome shyness in a month or so.<P>Keep strong.

Wow!<P>As always, you amaze me with how well you handle things.<P>It also occurs to me that maybe this guy coming forward at this time is a bit of a "gift" for you...to help you "see" your wife as realistically as possible as your divorce approaches.<P>Wow.<P>Kathi<P>

Jim, <BR>I think Kathy may have hit it on the head...this could be a sign for you to see your wife differently, if the divorce happens. It may help you to move on knowing how she was with him during the divorce. <BR>I know how despirately you want this marriage to work out, but she may not come back. And perhaps this will help you prepare. It may even help your son as well. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

Jim,<P>I think you are so excited about this that you may not want to hear what I have to say, but I'll try anyway for the sake of the boy.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I still think that for my son to know his natural father…<BR>…could not hurt him.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I could not disagree more with this statement.<P>You're not talking about him making friends with another 18 year old down the block. Yeah, then you think if the kid is not on drugs, etc...<P>You're talking about a major relationship in his life with an adult "authority".<P>I'm not saying this relationship WILL hurt him, but please recognize it COULD.<P>Maybe I'm very sensitive to this because noone was "home" to protect me as a child or as a young adult. Meeting my BF was a very mixed bag. I was hurt in many ways...I will not get into.<P>But one was that he raised my expectations that he was now ready to be the father I never had, only to totally fail me once again. Giving his money did not make him a father, I believe the new term for BFs that don't take part in their offspring's life is SPERM DONOR.<P>Jim, one other thing. Is it important to you that your son continue in the Christian faith? Yes?<P><B>Jehovah Witness is NOT a Christian denomination for a very important reason.</B> They reject the major beliefs of our faith, including the deity of Christ. (He was a good man). They use the same Bible, but twist the meaning. Converting others is a MAJOR requirement of their religion.<P>That should not rule him out by itself, but be AWARE. I am well versed in the Scriptures and have had many, many conversations with JWs, attempting to get them to read what the Bible says and see if what their church taught coincided. They would never take me up on it...<P>Please, let me know you are thinking about what I said. The weekend is coming when I can't get on, brother arriving tomorrow...<P>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited August 03, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited August 03, 2000).]

{{{{{{{{JIM}}}}}}}}<P>It just NEVER ends does it? I am amazed at the similarities in some of it. You are a strong person to go thru this. <P>I can't imagine adding that to the long list of other things going on. How come the biological dad has been out of the picture?? Had your son ever asked of him, or to meet him??<P>Sending extra prayers, hang in there,<P>Dana<BR>

Thanks everyone for the support...<P><B>schizzo</B>...<BR>...please don't worry... <P>My son's faith, rooted in Catholicism is quite strong...<BR>...he has many "true" Christian friends...<BR>...and they challenge him often...<BR>...and can handle himself!<P>He can not be swayed...<BR>...by anyone.<P>He will hear from me about the specifics...<BR>...you know I do do my research...<P><A HREF="http://www.catholic.com/ANSWERS/Groups.htm#witnesses" TARGET=_blank>ANSWERS</A><P><A HREF="http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=147633" TARGET=_blank>Q and A</A><P><A HREF="http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=149193" TARGET=_blank>Q and A</A><P>The faith differences, while important, doesn't mean that my son shouldn't meet his natural father.<P>I pray for him...<BR>...and his need to know his son...<BR>...more than a need to convert his son.<P>I won't get into a "religious" argument with his BF father...<BR>...and if he does try to convert my son...<BR>...my son will be prepared!<P>I'll be OK...<BR>My son will be OK...<BR>The BF will too... if he really wants any realtionship with his son.<P> <P>Jim<BR>

WOW JIM!!!<P>I am very very glad that you two had a GOOD 3 hours together. Could have been a very very akward situation, but it seems as though he is very willing to "play within the rules" and NOT pressure his NS into meeting him.<P>I would agree with Hanora, I bet with time, no that your son's mind is planted with the idea of his NF being around, that curiosity will lead him to eventually meeting up with him.<P>Glad that it went well!<P>Drew

schizzo,<P>I was horrified to read that you seem to think that the fact that Jim's son's biological father is a different religion would be a reason to hesitate to encourage a relationship between them. Since when do you have to belong to same religion as your relatives? Should my kids' cousin not be allowed to hang out with our kids, because she is Catholic and we are not? Should my H have avoided his grandmother because she was a JW? Should I avoid my sister because she is Episcopalian and I'm not? Was my mother really not good enough to babysit in the nursery when she used to go to church with her Southern Baptist sister, because she was Unitarian? <P>You can't be converted unless you want to. His biological father has a right to proselytize if he wants to, no matter how annoying it may be, and Jim's son has a right to listen or ignore it as he chooses. Children, even almost adult ones, can not have too many people who care for them, and to propose to deny someone a relationship with a biological parent because of a difference in religious beliefs is bigoted and cruel.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited August 03, 2000).]

Hi NSR -<P>Boy, life just gets more peculiar every day, doesn't it? LOL!!!<P>I think that this is very interesting...<BR>the timing of it has to just make you sit back and go "OK God, what do you want me to have this for?"<P>WOW.......<P>This is definitely coming about for a reason......hopefully, to your benefit with the nightmare!!!! And your son's as well!!!!<P>We all really have to start writing our stories down.....great book material - even though some of us classify as "horror"!!!!! LOL!!!!<P>BIG HUGS and Love ya,<P>Sheba

Hi Jim<BR>Have been away for a good few months so I am a bit behind in your story... just poped in to hi though see your are still hanging tuff you go ... stay strong<BR>(was prev Jendan69)

Jim,<P>I have been reluctant to reply here because I have zero experience. My gut however is telling me that this can be a good thing for all parties.<P>You are your son's "Dad". You raised him. This man is his "father", know what I mean?<P>My concern is that factthat his Mom has this evil streak in her. It is hard to escape the facts as you have portrayed them...<P>Now about BF MHO is that even if he is party to a particular non-christian faith does not mean he doesn't live live with the spiritual principles of committment, selflessness. love, faith, open-mindedness, tolerance, acceptance, and humility espoused by our Christian beliefs. To me this is more important in some areas than his actual faith. These principles are the blue print I try to use in living life with other people, and by applying them I am a more "meek" person...now I realise that whatever humility I had just went out the window with statement...LOL however, this is how I judge the character of others also. For me this is the litmus test for people I have relationships with and allow to get close me.<P>This is what my gut is telling me about you currant situation...Your son according to the U.S.M.C. is a man. Ultimately it is his decision and I'm sure you will provide him with guidance only as wise man as yourself can offer.<P>Love You,<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR><P>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.

NSR,<P>Thanks for the reply. Sounds like you have your head on good, as usual.<P>As you know, I said that this should not in itself prevent the relationship, only that YOU as the father should be AWARE. I was concerned about the way you reiterated many times that he was a Christian minister, etc.<P>Again, the purpose of my post was to point out that your son could be hurt or could be really benefited. All relationships have that potential. But especially one like this, it is important to go slow and let the man be a friend.<P>I was hurt by my BF in many ways. One way that I was pointing out was not intentional. I believe he raised many EXPECTATIONS that he was now ready to be the Dad I did not have (your son is truly blessed to have you), then changed his tune. I was then an "adult (barely 18) totally on my own with neither parent to turn to.<P>Again, it sounds like your head is on nice and tight, and this could be a good thing under your management.<P>Take care...

<B>schizzo</B>...<P>I really do thank you for your words...<P>I know you were not trying to be bigoted...<BR>...you had an honest concern... more so in terms of a possible harm any Natural Father(NF)/Biological Father(BF) could cause...<BR>...your words, I find comforting in concern... and take no offence.<BR>I do have my head on straight... I've been given a chance to do a very good Plan A for 10+ months... and it has kept me straight on course.<P>I will go slowly...<BR>...and not rush my son too much...<BR>...but will not let him just ignore it.<BR>Sure there could be hurt...<BR>...but denying a chance to meet him...<BR>...isn't the way to avoid...hurt ...love or any other emotion.<P>I honestly believe... his NF will <B>NOT</B> push any religious beliefs on him...<BR>...(he committed to me he would not)...<BR>......and even (in recognition of the JW's reputation) was reluctant to say he was a JW...<BR>......but broke through that reluctance... since he sensed my attitude!<P>His immediate goal is just to establish a "friend"-like relationship<BR>...and no intent on a new father-son relationship<BR>...He is very impressed on what I have done for "our" son....<BR>......and pledges not to take that away or supplant it with his relationship.<P>My son has no expectations of his NF taking over... (or starting as a "new" father)<BR>... he is more than comfortable with me being his <B>father</B> for his life!<P>And <B>Nellie</B>... I thank you too for your concern... <BR>(I love you sister... and am very impressed with what you have done for your kids!)<BR>...please don't come down hard on <B>schizzo</B> based on her own <B><I>bad</I></B> experiences with the re-introduction of her NF/BF.<BR>Her concern of introduction to the NF and possible influence to a new "belief" system... is from her experiences... and I respect her for that concern. Yes... the JW's do have some principles that "collide" with Christian(especially Catholic) teaching... My son's exposure to it is not a threat to his own entrenched beliefs... and is himself open to a "faith-filled" understanding of other's belief systems.<P>I have been privileged to have know many of you at the MB forums...<BR>...and I know some of you as Christians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, agnostics, and others.<BR>I... harbor no ill will against anyone's convictions of their faith...<BR>...I never will.<P>The fact that my son's NF is a Jehovah's Witness...<BR>...is a concern... but one that would never keep me from allowing my son to have contact... nor for that matter... for me to make contact with his NF.<P>I wouldn't keep him from his NF, if his NF was a Jew, or Muslim, or virtually any other religion. My son's uncle (on W's side) is an avowed agnostic... and my son knows it! His grandmother is now a congregation of Reformed Christians, and one of his aunts/uncles/cousin have recently joined a born-again Christian demonination.<P>You, who really know me, know the strength of my faith...<BR>...and my children follow me in that faith.<BR>...and follow me in respect of anyone who leads an honest moral life...<BR>......more than the specific beliefs of that faith.<P>...Enough on that...<P>-------------------------------------------------------<P><B>K</B>...<BR>...I'd say let's gather all the syndication revenue...<BR>...and help out those on this forum who are really struggling financially...<P><B>hanora</B>...<BR>...I'd hazard a time less than one month...<BR>...maybe even in a few days...<P><B>Kathi</B>...<BR>Strange you mention this...<BR>...almost makes me want to warn the OM...... Nahhhhh!<P><B>Susan</B>...<BR>This <B>is</B> helping me to prepare for the divorce...<BR>...my W is (if it is possible... now even angrier with me)<P>It can... and in the long run will help my son... I really think so!<P><B>Dana</B>...<BR>NF has been looking for 6 or 7+ years...<BR>But realized he could get no help from my W's side of the family...<BR>...and had no money for a PI...<BR>...but has been helped by a "family-search" group!<P>My son had once or twice some interest...<BR>...3 or 4 years ago...<BR>...but his mom beat that interest down.<P><B>Drew</B>...<BR>Thanks again... I think you are right!<P><B>Sheba</B>...<BR>...my wisdom...<BR>in buying a house... it's location... location... location...<BR>in a trial... it's timing... timing... timing...<P><B>Sugarinbritches/Jendan</B>...<BR>...WOW... a blast from the past...<BR>...Thank you! ...and hope your doing OK!<P><B>Bill</B>...<BR>You are still struggling through your own problems...<BR>...you "brotherly" comments are appreciated!<P>-------------------------------------------------<P>You are all so wonderful...<BR>...I'll let you know what happens.<P> <P>Jim<P>

Jim: I have read this latest update with much interest. My father left my mother when I was 9 and my brother was a newborn. He moved out of state and we never heard from him agian until my brother was in his late 20's. My father actually sent a letter to my brother and wanted to arrange a meeting with the both of us. I had very vague memories of my father, but decided not to meet with him, because I just didn't want to . My brother on the other hand, decided to meet with him, mainly because of curiosity. He was raised by our stepfather, butalways wondered what his real father was like,etc. The first time they met, my brother came away very disa ppointed, because his dad was not at all like he imagined or built up in his mind. They met one other time after that, and then they went on their separate ways. My brother does not regret meeting his natural father because it cleared up a lot of unresolved issues for him.<BR>Your son is at the age where he can handle the meeting., but it has to be when he wants and on his terms. There has to be a reason for this happening in both of your lives at this particular time. THings will work themselves out.

It isn't that any "good" expectations exist in my son... about his NF.<P>If fact, it is just the opposite!<BR>He has been constantly told (by his mom) how "bad", "evil", "uncaring"... and a "threat" ...his NF was.<BR><B>and to be honest</B>... I saw not one sign of any of these characteristics...<BR>...I saw a repentant man...<BR>...one who recognizes the failings of his youth...<BR>...now ...with a simple desire to see his son.<P>...and now (this morning) ...when talking to my son...<BR>he was saying to me ..."I(son) don't want to complicate my(son's) life".<P>I agree some time is needed...<BR>...but my son's procrastination...<BR>...could mean that he will <B>never</B> want to see his NF.<P>There is very little I feel that should keep my son away from his NF....<BR>...the religion issue should <B>not</B> be a deciding factor!<P>I will continue to talk to him...<BR>...but again... his will have to be the final decision.<P> <P>Jim