Just a thought in repsonse to Leilana's unanswered question to Freedom as to why he couldn't make the OW resume their relationship, obviously I don't know what actually happened with Freedom but...the OP also can get tired of being hurt, being lied to, being misled. Just as anyone's lovebank can empty. <P>When my husband was working so hard to keep us both and it was like he was on an 18 month pulley system between us, I told him it was quite likely he could end up without either of us. She moved on to H's good friend...I served divorce papers. I don't know if he gave much effort to get her back after that, but I do know he WORKED a diligent Plan A to reconcile with me.<P>I've demonized the OW as much as anyone on the board, but as my counselor said, "She doesn't want to be hurt anymore, either."<P>My H is out of withdrawal. NoMas, forest withdrawal can end and he does see her sometimes at work, so it can end even under those circumstances.

Forest, my heart goes out to you....I to have been in withdrawl. It is the most painful thing H and I have ever been through.But It seems to me that your head knowns what is the proper thing to do but your heart tells you another. The heart can be very strong at times and isn't always wrong...maybe just not appropriate. I am not like the rest here, addition is a word,I don't equate with any kind of Love! I save that word for chemical additions. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by forest:<BR><B>Married 16 years to hs sweetheart, two teenage children, cyclical relationship with wife (fight over and over about the same things), empty job, extremely unhappy at work. Met the OW, who was trying to salvage her own bad marriage. Extremely strong relationship developed, first via email, then phone calls, then physical, then spiritual bonding, then planning a new life together. Informed wife and children of affair, moved out of house, remained separated for two months. Wife and children freaking out, i respond by trying to be there for them, and end up reconciling with wife and moving back in. I go down and end the affair (out of state). Have had no contact with OW in over two months. Am going through what appears to be extreme withdrawal, to the point where i'm vomiting on the way home from work. I miss the OW, her love, her son, the plans and everything. At the same time, going through counseling with my wife. I am committed to making our marriage work. The thought of divorce is unacceptable to me now, yet what do i do with these feelings for the OW (even hate calling her that)? If I speak of this to my wife (although she is aware that i had these feelings for this woman), she freaks out, and it feeds her feelings of inadequacy and panic. I know i can never go back to OW, but when does this pain end? In surfing through the site, Dr. Harley mentions that very few affairs ever end in the two affairees getting married, but some do. How and when does it become clear that the relationship wasn't an addiction, but a real relationship? I know this is a 'welcome to real life' type of unanswerable question, but how can i love my wife and children and also feel a love so so strongly for someone else? How can i think i can be a good husband and father to anyone else when i'd be walking out on my own family? Or am i just an emotional crack addict? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Forest, <P>I am new here also. When I read your post it really scared me b/c if I didn't know better I would have thought my H wrote it.<P>My H isn't the least interested in posting on these self-help sites, therefore, I try to do this in secrecy of sorts. But, I believe he could share so much and it would be theraputic for him and he could also help others like yourself.<P>He is doing so much better now, but six months ago he was right where you are now.<P>I'll see if I can work my magic on him one more time and get him to commune with you and others.<P>Hang on ! My best advice to you is do things with your wife, walk, talk , go to the park, the movies, the yogurt shop, do dumb stuff, do anything, everything. Just do it!!! Go...now... do it!!!<P>Cathy

Boy, this is somewhat of a discouraging post for those of us (me in particular) who's spouse's are in a "soul mate" romantic affair.<P>Like I said on an earlier post, it was reading this type of description of the connection that made me want to push my H off the fence into the OW.<P>I could't stand the obsession. And my H is a great rationalizer also. He also would hear NONE of what I would try to gently tell him about affairs, addiction (ok so sometimes I screamed it) or the fact that there seems to be a handbook "out there" that describes his behavior, and words verbatim. I know my H believes that he is an exception. HE's "changed". I recently saw a book in his car about "tapping into your psychic connection". This is just where he is AT right now.<P>He has never come right out and said much to me. He actually said I couldn't understand it. But from OP's H I heard "connection" thrown around. And I would bet he would tell me they could read each others minds.<P>Guess what. My H and I seemed to have the same attribute in our "salad days". My H was very infatuated with me and very lustful.. couldn't wait to get me in the sack. I worried about it. He was married before, and although there was no A and I met him on the tail of his divorce I knew he didn't have a lot of experienc.e<P>I actually looked at photos early in our relationship to see if he had the "possessed" look, and I think he did.<P>Maybe he is just in love with being "in love". Maybe he just cannot really love!!! (I'm not trying to make the in love state less than it is, but there is so much more to it.... I know because I still feel it (love) even after being battered emotionally for the past 8 months.<P>I think I should have seen this coming. I think my H can only be connected and totally there emotionally to the person who he is having sex with. That is pretty much where his connection comes from. It's that lustful feeling that is tremendous.<P>I think I'm doomed. A h who is great at rationalization ( I have lived with it for 13 years), does not "play well with others" (i.e. can only have one person whom he is attached too), does not have strong faith, and walked out on his children so easily . ( I say this because he never said a word about any problems AT all, and said suddenly that there was nothing we could do, that the kids would be "fine" and that he lost his connection to me and the kids)<P>At this point all I can really do is pray for a miracle.

For az allison,<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by az allison:<BR><B>why why why are do we want to see such a quick turn-around by the betrayers on these boards, and are oh-so patient with out own WS?<P>The betrayed spouses here on these boards are endlessly patient, I mean to the point of waiting years and years for their husbands or wives to "come around". But, let a betrayer show their emotions, tell us truthfully how hard it is and they get lectures from others here who "know more" about life and how things should be progressing.<P>Why are we so patient with the ones we love, and demand instant action from those here in the throes of what our own spouses are going through?<P>Are we telling the betrayers here all the things we'd like to be telling our own WS? Are we so busy Plan Aing our foggy partners that we take it out on those here brave enough to show us just what it's like on the other side of this huge mess?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Allison,<P>Exactly! And I would wish to God someone would give straight talking advice to my H whenever he gets on his pitty potty about how much he's suffering! (He was recently snobbed by the uncle of his XOW and came home "woe is me-ing". What? Did he expect to be congratulated?! Those are the damn consequences of his actions. But I am MB-obligated to say "My poor baby! Come here and let me give you a hug." I so wish he would post here and get a reality check from somebody else when he gets like that. <P>I think we all wish someone would talk to our H's the way we're advising to these guys. <P>And Allison, it works both ways. I posted something a while back cause I desperately wanted to get flamed/reality checked. I asked for it so I could stay on track and not go backwards. I did not want coddling. I wanted you guys to pull me out of my fog!<BR>Please feel free to slap me upside the head if I get that way again!! <P>I'm glad you're getting alot out of Forest's and NoMas' posts. For alot of others here, tho, it's sapping their plan A strength. <BR>

Yeah, I just said that same thing in "I like hearing from betrayers but. . ."<P>It is valuable hearing that stuff, I guess, I won't deny it. I should feel more compassionate toward my husband. He lost his teddy bear and must now forget she ever existed if he is to continue being a husband and father, you know, that ol grind. Wake up, shower while I iron his uniform and fix his lunch, get a kiss goodbye, work all day at the same ol job at the same ol desk, come home and eat the same ol chicken dinner, play with the same ol kids, watch the same ol Law and Order, go to bed and see the same ol woman laying there waiting for him. Blase blase. Oh, wah. My heart bleeds for him. Where is his lovey-dovey to rescue him from the everyday drag of suffering through family life with the same ol boring people?<P>I think that life is going to be for you the way you insist on seeing it. And the people in it are going to be the way you treat them.<P>It has been very valuable to know about withdrawal, and I know that I must be patient and help him along by depositing sweetness into his love bank, but jeez. . .<P>What happens the day that I am tired and cranky, don't feel like talking, have had a bad day, a bill doesn't get paid on time or the toilet jams and floods the house? Is that the day that he's going to run to her because I haven't been nice to him? It's like he has an automatic back-up plan, an over-draft protection from unpleasantness: HER!<P>I don't get it. It's like when my kids are mad at me for discipling them. My five-year-old says "You are a mean mommy. I want a new mommy." The same as: "You are a cold-hearted crotchety old wife who has a pudgy bottom and I just don't feel the magic anymore. I found a new one who makes me feel like a man. Whew-hew!" <P>Sorry, a family is too precious and important to make any replacements in. I promise that I will do what I can to be a faithful, hardworking, attractive wife, but I am not always going to be a magical whispy fairy-princess complete with wand and sparkles. . .not everyday, anyways.<P>Yeah, I am just venting. Ya got me going again!<BR>

OPEN MOUTH, INSERT FOOT!<P>Boy, did I write something offensive?<P>Sorry, didn't mean to offend any of us bleeding hearts. Read Forest's post and it appeared to me that he was asking for suggestions on how to stop thinking (obsessing) about the big, giant OW!<P>All of our situations are different,has been said many times.<P>The memory of my H's withdrawal is still so fresh in my mind, it still hurts me and I am so desperately trying to save another (sister) from this pain. I know Forest is in pain also."If I can stop one heart from breaking, I shall not live in vain". Emily Dickinson. <P>All of the WS's bring on this pain b/c of the poor choices they make. They are the only ones who can make the decision to stay or leave, to get over and get away from OW.<P>To the WS's:<BR> Don't even start about the kindly abbreviations used here, you certainly wouldn't want to read what we secretly call you people!<P>Back to topic:<BR>Not you, not me, not her, not anyone can make that decision for WS. Just thought I would offer a few simple suggestions for him to consider and too, maybe it is something I wish my H would do for me and maybe they are some of the things my H has done for me and worked quite well. No harm in sharing with others, is there?<P>You know I could have said ugly,ugly things to all of the WS's, b/c of my war wounds, but what good would it do? They would only retaliate and fire back their usual hypocritcal jargon, trying to defend their sheepish selves.<P>I really don't want to get started on that right now, b/c if it were up to me, I'd line them all up in front of a firing squad at dawn and the aim would be dead on "wee willy winky" and "camel toes ". Someone needs to be held accountable for destroying so many lives! And they will be, one day, we are promised that!<P>There now, feel better? I'm still with you.<BR> <BR>Cathy

Catplay--Who said you wrote anything offensive?<P>True, there has been a couple of fights on this thread, it's been a real touchy subject.<P>But, I think just about everyone who posted on this thread has pretty much shown some support (well, almost everyone, I can think if one or two. . .) for those who feel that they are losing their whole world by giving up someone they love dearly. Or at least shown some gratitude in letting us know what our WS might be going through, painful as it is to know.<P>I know how much it hurts. If you have ever buried someone that you love in a cold grave after losing them to a sudden death, and know that life must go on without them, then you can probably sympathize. It's the same emotion, completely and totally.<P>I read the stories, in some magazine, about people who were widowed young and how they coped. One story that stuck in my mind was about a young Marine fighter pilot whose wife kissed him goodbye just before he left on a mission--plane crashed in the Pacific, and his body was never found. No closure. How the waves of grief did not subside for months and how she did everything in her power to keep busy until the thoughts of him became happy memories, not shards of pain. (I think that this story stuck with me because my husband is a Marine, and God, if he ever came back in a body bag, I think that you might as well put me into the ground next to him--even if he did cheat on me. Even if I did find pictures of him and some ugly chick in a hotel room.)<P>This is pretty much how these folks who have had a complete marriage-like relationship with their OP (not a "fling") are feeling, well, pretty much. . .<P>Except for one thing. The betrayer, aware of what he/she is doing, brings another love into his/her life when he/she has already has one that he has vowed to love forever. Many of these folks have children. The emotion they feel for losing is unwarranted --the loss that they are suffering should have never been a gain in the first place. And they have to deal with that reality. Hopefully, with help. And to that end, they come here to this forum to share their feelings. I am glad that they do.<P>It is so unfortunate, the one thing that this society should be founded upon--the family--is easily ripped apart by temptations, misunderstandings, boredom, pain seeking comfort, ect.<P>If we, as a society, cannot keep our families together and strong, what is the point? What CAN we keep together?<P>That's why I say, and I stand by this, if you cannot do it for yourself, at least do it for your children. You owe them comfort and security and two loving parents who will stand by them and see them safely off into the world. Not one parent, working two jobs to stay off food stamps. Not 3 or 4 parents who squabble and hate each other. The kids did not ask to be brought into this world. You did it--you volunteered them to be here.<P>That's why you have to reconcile and rebuild with the one who helped you bring kids into the picture.<P>And if that is totally and completely impossible, and you know this firmly--then divorce, but do it on as friendly terms as possible, put all of your ugly feelings aside, and make good your vow to always be a parent to your children, no matter what.<P>But don't live in limbo--that's such B.S., and you all know it. All you are doing is hurting people all the more by being dishonest, people that you are supposed to love and protect; your spouse, your kids, and yes, even the OP, if they are still in contact with you.<BR> <BR>That's why I say, do all you can to get that OP out of your mind. That is kind of teenage thing--obsessing about another human being. Like crying over Elvis or something. You are all grown-ups and have the means and willpower to be strong. You have to be.<P>Fake it until you make it.<P>I figured that I would make someone mad sooner or later by something that I had written, but, man, understand that some of us have loved so deeply and so unconditionally, just to be scorned, mocked, abused and abandoned by the person that we trusted and would die for. And to continue to forgive and love unconditionally, we have to have some hope for the future.<P>I am so hurt, like many others, and the subject on this thread is a stark reminder that there is a long, hard road ahead of us to win back the ones we love. Or there may be no road at all for some of us. But which is it? That's the hard part--not knowing.<P>

Forest,<P>I too, am the wayward spouse. <P>There are some deep, difficult to answer questions which you need to answer for yourself before you move another step in any direction.<P>Why, if you are so in love with the Other Woman do you still seek to rebuild your marriage w/ your wife? What are your true motivations?<P>Why do I see you doing very little descriptive writing extolling the virtues of your wife? <P>Were you the perfect spouse to live with yourself before you got yourself into this mess?<P>Forest, I'd like to see you get focused on the right things - to get more 'on task.' That is why I ask you those questions. <P>Don't just think of your wife's face, think of HER. I keep hearing you supply reasons why you 'can't do' or why it's 'hard to' by the truck load. It's ok to vent here. But eventually, you either will yourself to come around to your goal of living happily with your wife OR you continue to wallow and cycle in the land of woe. I've seen it. Hell, I've DONE it. <P>Get thru this next week without breaking the no contact rule. Keep coming here to get your "I miss her's" out. So far, you have played the game, but it doesn't seem like your heart is in it. It's hard to focus thru the fog, but focus you must. As more time and distance grows between you and this woman, you will gain perspective on WHY you strayed and WHAT you need from your wife and out of life that you went looking in the wrong places for. <P>If we're coming across as harsh or abrasive, try to rememeber this - if we didn't give a crap about your feelings or the turnout of your situation, those of us who were so inclined would simply rip your words to shreds. But we want to help - and I believe in tough love. Sometimes a 'poor baby' speech is the last thing you need when you're already giving so many to yourself. (I know - I am the 'poor me' queen sometimes!)<P>Forest, I'd like to see you show some follow thru and strength and straighten up. You are trying, I know. I'm telling you to not only try harder, but try in different ways. <P>You will get thru this. I think the strength you need is right there - you need to keep reaching.<P>Khyra <P>

Well Forest, your question has brought about a lot of conflicted views from both sides and as usual nothing really is settled and your question mostly goes unanswered.<P>But you know the reason is that there is no one right answer...humans are too complex for any one answer to be right for everyone.<P>There was a sad little lady named "the student" who has disappeared from this board in the last few months.<P>There were no real answers to her struggle either but she lamented and debated for months. But I quess she moved on...but I miss her. But Nomas has come to take her place (although their situations were not that similar) as he tenaciously tries to convince himself and us of the futility of his struggle.<P>In the end it boils down to total commitment to what you decide to do. If you want Ow...then end your marriage and go...if you want marriage...then commit to that and let go of OW. <P>If every thought you had of OW was of how she had betrayed you, left you alone, told you she didn't "love you anymore", walked away from years of being your best friend, and told you "she had found her soulmate", I doubt if you would be so eager to think of her so lovingly or be willing to endue the ups and downs of an unrewarded Plan A to win her back.<P>No, basking in love and lust is much easier even if it does hurt when you have to enter withdrawal. Would you trade for the betrayed's lot? Think about it.<P>Buffy <P><BR> <P><BR>

Forest: I want to give you some encouragement here. I will give you a little background of my story... Had a good, solid marriage, lots in common etc. Nov. 98, my h began affair with a co-worker. (h is a police officer, she was a new recruit). At that time, our work schedules did not allow us to spend much time together. H spent 40hrs. a week at work with ow.. <P>March 1, 1999.. After suspecting from the very beginning, I discover affair. H moves into hotel for 3 weeks, then moves home. Within a week of him coming home, I discover h was with ow again. I react, and kick him out of the house, divorce discussions begin (my initiation). H immediately signs a lease with ow for an apartment..<BR>Within 2 weeks of h moving in with ow,, he is calling me crying and telling me he misses and loves me...<BR>He continues this for 2 months at which time he moves home (june 99). <BR>H was in and out of withdrawal.. (it was very difficult for me to watch).. August 99, ow doesnt want to give up and she buys a home around the corner from us.. H breaks down and tells me about it... H literally cries to me and says "PLEASE HELP ME!!" It was the saddest thing to watch him go through this... For 4 more months we battled his withdrawal and set backs of him slipping up and seeing her.. <BR>Nov. 99, FREEDOM, and another friend reach out to h to help him (at this point I was ready to throw in the towel). H was going through hell and so was I. Finally Dec. 99, i start seeing a breakthrough that he was getting through withdrawal...<BR>Totally, it took my h a year to finally break it off and begin to get over withdrawal. H began trying to end the affair the first few weeks it started... Officially withdrawal was going on and off for that year, but finally after he moved home, I think it took 7 months to start feeling better for him, and another 3 before I would say he is totally over ow... (h had some slip ups though)<P>Freedom doesnt think he did a lot for my h but he did.. My h didnt like talking to counselors, but h did listen to people like Freedom who had "been there"...<P>Now,, our marriage is awesome! Most of the time I never think about the affair anymore, which is a big step for me. My h treats me like a queen, and we have a more open relationship than we had before the affair.<P>What helped my h are the following: Having a wife that understood (through reading and MB). People to talk with that had been there. The books Private lies (chapt 13), After the Affair and Surviving an affair. <P>I want you to know that we have been through so much and my h was every bit addicted and sad as you are right now,, and he has come through this all the way... <P>Get your wife some reading material too, so she will have an understanding of what you are going through... Otherwise its very possible she will get too impatient and push you away to the ow... <P>You are going to have to take your recovery 1 day at a time,,, in the end, it will be the best decision you ever made.. someone else said it that the next year of your life is worth sacrificing to get better,, its only a small amount of time in the scope of it all...<P>You can do this!!!<P>Also, if you want to read chapt. 13 exerpts from the book "Private Lies", do a search for my post titled Private Lies under Mickey65....<P>good luck!!!!!!<p>[This message has been edited by mickey65 (edited August 07, 2000).]

Khyra,<P>Thanks, I know the key here is to focus on my wife, not 'A'. My wife has changed through all this, at least she seems to have. It amazes me to no end, that when i originally came back, she just didn't empty my closets onto the lawn and tell me to go spin on a fork. We'd had such incredible, long drawn out fights (for weeks, sometimes) that i really believed that once adultery was admitted, she would just unload me completely. Which would have been the easy way out for me.<P>As for what my motivations are, at first, the kids, and the kids alone. Experiencing their reactions ripped me in half. I had come to believe that i really didn't make a difference in their lives, that my wife was the sole control and foundation of who they were and should become. Which was basically me looking for an easy way out.<P>I honestly had tried to sell myself on the 'i don't love you anymore' crap, and told my wife that over and over again (yeah, swell guy i am). Yet i couldn't bear with the fact of leaving her, and over the first few weeks back, i finally started to realize that i had destroyed a person, a young girl, a woman i had shared life with for twenty years. There's also the tremendous fact that i know what i did was wrong, no matter how sweet and pure the feelings/intentions are, and i've already seen the results of crossing the line. This may sound extremely fundamentalist to some, but sin does lead to death. Like death of a baby. I firmly believe i got 'A' pregnant and she lost the baby, after an argument with her husband. So my crying jags and vomiting are always tempered with the fact that God is in control, and those weren't the Ten 'Suggestions'. My wife, protectively, is sure the child wasn't mine, but I was close enough to 'A' and her marital situation to know it was mine. <P>So tired. Thanks Khyra, i will keep trying, and abrasive and harsh is the last thing i've seen from anyone here. Actually, as i've already told my friend/pastor/counselor, i would actually prefer someone to knock my teeth out (a few times). I'm not looking for namby pamby poor forest from anyone. I'm just finding this 'double minded man' existence hard to get rid of.<P>thanks again.<BR>

Thanks Buffy, i'm actually trying some mental gymnastics with my feelings, like staring out the window of my front door, thinking 'if 'A' loved me so much, why doesn't she come down my driveway, and drag me away from here?' 'If she loves me so much, why doesn't she try to call me?" And all that ends up doing is bringing back the fact that all she ever wanted was my happiness, no matter what that meant to her situation, which starts me all over again on another wallowing, teary-eyed pining session. <P>I always thought the Nike 'just do it' approach was a bit lame and unrealistic when <BR>dealing with emotions, but i guess that's what it boils down to. Being the cold scab that i am, i have started to realize that the 'just build a bridge and get over it' I used to say to people in some emotional predicament, is, like most things, alot easier to say then do.<P>And again, as posted earlier, I have no idea how my wife has managed not to put a nice big hole in my head. I try every day to comprehend how she must feel. The big jerk coming home saying 'guess what, i don't love you anymore, i feel empty, i want out..." When i detach myself and look at this whole thing, it really seems unreal. And i feel more and more like the consumate loser. And i also know that i would bring all these fabulous traits with me to 'A', if i could burgeon up the idiocy to go through with a divorce. <P>I only felt my wife needed me to fight with, to be there for her and the kids, and to keep us solvent. Now, seeing just how much she does love me, it's painful and scary at the same time to know i was ready to throw it all away. For my own supposed selfish shot at my own 'happiness'. Speaking of whom, i need to call her right now, my wife, that is... thanks, all.<P>

Berzini:<P>Come back, come back, you went off on me.<BR>The post just after mine had a tone about it that lead me to believe she was offended by my offering, not sympathy to forest, but suggestions for diversions until he can get out of the foggy, foggy, fantasy fog.<P>Yes, I know the pain of burying someone I love, in fact four, one every two years, back to back, and slide in three more from my H's fam. in between.<P>I know pain! I'm not very adept with the use of adjectives. But I do know that if I could have buried my H last July, I would probably be a hell of a lot better off today than I am. Better yet, they should <BR>have buried me a year ago. I died!!!<P>I know what TT is going through, I share and commiserate with all of you. I'm much better now, my H has at least budged on this issue, made some type of commit. not 100% but at least something. and I just wish that every WS could do at least some of what he has done, some move in the right direction, to eliminate some of your pain.<P>I feel extremely fortunate, but at the same time guilty b/c of the heartache I read here.<BR>And I can't stop the heartache, only be here for you and I obviously don't do that well.<P>Nothing will change until the OW is gone and that is that, we all know this.<P> Jan. 17, 2000, I finally called OW at work and said "do ME a favor, please leave my h alone" end of story. End of her!!! for me. She knew at that point that I had enough and would win and there was absolutely nothing she could do to sway him to stay with her.<P>I believe my creating an atmosphere that was condusive to showing him how much he had to lose was when the fog lifted for him, granted, it took a while but, when I settled down (somewhat), and began to focus on the children and myself and life w/o him, he opened his eyes.<P>I'm sure I haven't experienced anything that is totally unique. H and I have a history, I know pain, we have four children who have been ripped apart emotionally, we have family that is distraught, our finances are aghast, I've made a fool of myself. You name it, I've been there, done it all. Begged, screamed, cussed , cried , hit , thrown, stomped, smashed, torn up, cut up, spit on, thrown up on, jumped on, jumped out of, sat on, rode over or on , all this and then some more. <P>Yes, I know PAIN. Ask my children!!! <P> Cathy

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Jan. 17, 2000, I finally called OW at work and said "do ME a favor, please leave my h alone" end of story. End of her!!! for me. She knew at that point that I had enough and would win and there was absolutely nothing she could do to sway him to stay with her.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If I were the OW and I got a phone call like that I would think the opposite. That he COULD be swayed if I kept in contact. I think you're lucky if this worked for you.<P>If HE had called and said that, it would be a different story. It would tell me that HE didn't want me to contact him anymore and the if I had any respect for him, I would respect his wishes and not call.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by TruthSeeker (edited August 07, 2000).]

So, the key here is to end up with someone, or the truth. The one thing i haven't heard here yet, is, no matter what happens, harboring feelings and keeping them from your wife does no one any good. I've had pastors and counselors tell me and my wife to our face that the truth isn't always constructive. Which means lie to keep your marriage together. <P>I would not be at all surprised that if i did get divorced and go back trying to find a life with 'A', that she'd tell me to go leap. Usually now, when thinking things all the way through (a little late for that now, i know), i imagine finding out that she's reconciled and restored her relationship with her husband, or that she's involved with someone else. Neither of which would surprise me and either of which would at least let me know that she might be happy. Which i think, might end this emotional/mental treadmill. <P>forest for the trees<BR><p>[This message has been edited by forest (edited August 07, 2000).]

Forest...<BR>If you and your wife can talk kindly and supportively about what you are going thru, you WILL end up making it...I really believe that. Just don't shut each other out to avoid dealing with the hurt. Each of you is in pain; each of you has the chance to show the other compassion and caring.<P>Hang in there.<P>Kathi

Truthseeker:<P>Yeah, I did the same thing--called the OW and told her to stop writing to my husband. Made her promise. Just stop!<P> It was an unsettling feeling to go to bed, have him make love to me, fall asleep in his arms, and then about 2 or 3 in the morning, I would wake up to hear the clicking of the keyboard keys on he PC in the extra bedroom, and hear him muttering quietly as they did that voice chat thing.<P>Somebody had to stop it!! And I don't care who! Me, him, or her. Stop the madness!<P>And I do not feel bad about it. Sure, it would have been nice if he had been the one to say "Please leave me alone and I'll leave you alone," but it wasn't gonna happen. At that point in time, I was the only sane one of the bunch, so I made the first move. Had to be done. Don't feel guilty.

Kathi:<P>It's a frightening thing, at this point, to try and tell my wife, "oh yeah, by the way, the feelings haven't gone away yet..." She is despondent enough at times without me adding fuel to the fire. She knows, she can't believe it,and alternately hates remembering the adultery and then needs to express her interest in the why's when's how's which just get her more and more upset. I know she has issues to work through, but the reality seems to be that we're both on treadmills, bleeding, and don't have the ability to help ourselves, let alone each other. I have to be honest and let her know what i'm feeling, and she keeps unsuccessfully grappling with the fact that although she loves only me, there was someone else in my life, our life. And i can't make that go away. Even if i didn't have these feelings.<P>forest<P>QUOTE]Originally posted by kam6318:<BR><B>Forest...<BR>If you and your wife can talk kindly and supportively about what you are going thru, you WILL end up making it...I really believe that. Just don't shut each other out to avoid dealing with the hurt. Each of you is in pain; each of you has the chance to show the other compassion and caring.<P>Hang in there.<P>Kathi</B>[/QUOTE]<P>

Bernzini,<P>I'm not the one who called an OW. I'm also not an OW. I was responding to someone else saying that if I was the OW, I would not have interpreted the call as "You will never be able to sway him away from me." I would have interpreted it as "Stop it before you sway him away from me." Guilt might make a caring person actually stop - realizing that she is hurting someone's marriage. But knowing how strong the addiction can be, I think it would fuel the fire. It would be an outright challenge. I think an OW hearing that would think that there WAS a chance of getting him away from his wife and that the wife was reaching a point of desperation about it. <P>I think if anyone has success by calling the OW, they are extremely lucky.