I recently had posted to NoMas and got started thinking back to my own Plan A.<P>I automatically Plan "A"ed for about a month before I even knew about it. In many ways I continue today.<P>To my knowledge, my H never considered leaving, he was remorseful and I don't think he even ended up liking the OW...so admittedly I had it "easy".<P>Anyway, here are my questions:<P>How nice did you actually feel while Plan Aing?<P>How different was Plan A from your pre Plan A demeanor?<P>I am really a nice easy going person. Really I am. EVERYBODY says so. I really don't hold grudges, don't have hardly any temper and honestly like to help people. HOWEVER, after discovering my H's affair, although I was sincere about rebuilding and recovery, and I did love him and want the marriage at all times, I really had to act nice a lot of the time when I felt anything but nice.<P>We do not swear or use foul language in our house at anytime. However, in the first few months after the affair, I think I may have SILENTLY ended my SWEET PLAN A sentences in "you lying ***". In fact I remember when I was alone I would hear myself saying "My H is an adulterous liar." Yet I could Plan A up a storm.<P>Now my words and actions are more congruent. Although I wasn't dishonest in anything I said, I kept my eye on the goal and didn't LB too much. It wasn't that I didn't want to be kind, but there was so much anger and hurt that had to be contained and worked through in my private thoughts.<P>I wasn't perfect, but all in all I was successful.<P>Although my H thought I was incredibly kind to him after the affair and more understanding and supportive than he would have imagined (or I felt), my Plan A was really not too much different than the plain old easy going me. Does Plan A have more dramatic results when it isn't natural to your personality?<P>Just something interesting to mull over.<P>

FaithHopeLove, <P>I have been thinking about the same thing. I have been told even though I am the wayward that I should think about doing plan A. However, these are things I think I do on a regular basis anyway and don't know how to do anything different to be more effective. Any one out there with some ideas?? Starry-eyed

I've thought about this too. I am easy going person too, although I can and do get on a tear when I finally do get upset and let go. <P>After the affair was revealed I did the typical things...LBing to the hilt...tears...but after a while I calmed down...and began to just do what I've always done best...wait. <P>He got sick and came back...left again in April...or rather I kicked him out. <P>This time I'm not doing anything but letting him go and Plan A'ing him when I can. But this too seems like the usual to me...the only thing I could do different is to perhaps walk around the house naked like the OW does...but that's not my style. <P>Since his main EN is admiration...I'm loading up on that...but I've tried affection and he is entirely agreeable but it just seems false to me. I know I'm suppose to keep doing it until it become more natural...but when he hugs me I really feel like I hugging my father...there's that much passion. But he's always said he's afraid to hug me..so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.<P>I too would like to know what to do to be different...do a "180" in divorcebusting terms.<P>Buffy<P>

Since a lot of my Plan A took place while we were separated, I can say that the more limited contact made A easier for me to carry out. Who can't be nice when your only contact for the day is a phone call...or even a couple hours in the evening? If I felt like crying or being angry, I knew I'd have alone-time later. I had a difficult Plan A time when we were together, but my H was also not committed to the marriage until the last several months--the frustration was incredible, but then Plan A wasn't designed to go on for 18 months of limbo and back & forth!<P>This time being back together is so different. No walking on eggshells...I really see the 4 rules of a successful marriage surfacing this time. With my H also wanting & working on the marriage, I'm not nearly so frustrated and prone to LBs. In the 2+ months he's been home (the longest time since Jan-Apr 99) we've only had maybe 3 agruments.<P>The biggest change in my behavior is that I do NOT bring up what he was doing on such & such date last year...or the year before. He can't change what he did and reminding him gives him a big dose of hopelessness which in turn scares the !!!! out of me. In not reminding him, I have helped both him & myself...and that's what forgiveness and reconciliation is all about.<P>Hmmm, I bet someone, could it have been you, FHL?, told me this last year .<P>Anyway, as someone who has both performed and been treated to Plan A...it definitely has a positive effect!<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

FHL:<P>I certainly had a large change in my demeanor and behavior after I discovered the affair and started counseling with Steve (plan A).<P>Prior to the affair, I was very angry with my wife. I'd even say that there were times where I hated her. Classic "taker" syndrome where neither person was satisfied with the marriage. I was in conflict, and my wife was in withdrawal (the other one---not associated with an affair). She ended up in the ER one day shortly before I discovered the affair with a (relatively minor) reaction to medication, and I honestly began thinking about the upside of having her dead and gone. I loved my wife and hated the way she was behaving---and she had pretty much lost all feelings for me.<P>Nice, huh???<P>Post-discovery, a lot of things became clear to me. One was that her behaviors over the past years were "normal", and a lot of them had to do with the way I treated her. Not that I was solely responsible, or that I did a lot of mean things to her intentionally, but it was the "ah-ha" that came with reading Harley's "Lovebusters" and seeing how I was a good illustration for several of these chapters. I could also see the dynamics of how my wife's poor behaviors affected me, and how these taken together had made our marriage spiral downwards.<P>So, with Steve's guidance and the "illustrations" in the Harley material that demonstrated that you could pull out of this "marriage death spiral", I started on Plan A. I was actually able to release almost all my anger---I was really angry at not knowing what was wrong and being "powerless" to stop it. Once I knew what the problem was and had a coach to help me, I could focus on "doing", and being a successful, motivated individual, I realized that the anger was misplaced. I needed to get busy.<P>That didn't mean that I felt nice. I felt very hurt. I felt numb for nearly a month. But I never (very rarely) felt angry or mad---I was just so sorry at what I had done to contribute to this mess that I wanted to make it up to her. And I made very profound behavioral changes during my plan A time that demonstrated to my wife that I could change, and things could be better.<P>Of course, she had been beaten down for so long, that the combination of that and the nature of the affair led her to not completely believe it. She sat on the fence until I couldn't take being at home anymore, and went to Plan B. <P>But those Plan A efforts made a huge difference in the end. As I've said before, I had no clue (based on my wife's outward behavior) that I was having much of an effect. Here I am making these "heroic" efforts to change my behavior, and she's still continuing the affair. Part of my motivation was to realize that the plan A behaviors were helping me become the person I wanted to be (the husband and father), and that this was good for me regardless of the effect it had on my wife. That's the "Plan A is for YOU" approach. I get a bit worried when people discuss this in terms of going out and getting your nails done or having a massage---Plan A is about eliminating undesirable relationship behaviors from your life, and learning the skills to have a good marriage.<P>In my case, it worked. The dramatic effect was that we saved our marriage. If I hadn't started on that process, I'm pretty sure that we would have been divorced.

Very good thread.<P>My situation is a little different. I initiated a "predisclosure" plan A, and have decided to live plan A the rest of my life.<P>I had given up on plan A completely at one point, and just "let it all hang out" - for about a month after a good predisclosure plan a of 6 months.<P>My husband had a pretty full lovebank when I stopped plan A for that period. It was then that he decided to confess to an "almost mistake", and said that if I couldn't live with that information he would know that the marriage was over.<P>I floundered for a little bit after that, and then I started back on plan A. It has helped tremendously.<P>How did I feel - the first time I started Plan A, when I had nothing but an empty lovebank for so long? FRUSTRATED as all get out! Thank God for this site! ha ha<P>My plan A has never been perfect. I would say that my plan A has been much better since partial disclosure. I do know, that treating your spouse with respect, and stopping the lovebusters DOES work.<P>However, at some point, you have to find a way to express yourself - how you feel, in a non-lovebusting way - or it will eat you alive.<P>Plan A - the first time around for me - was to achieve the goal of a change in my husband. The 2nd time around, I became more focused in the changes in myself, and it isn't so much of an "act". I think I'm getting better at it.<P>Although it has been over a year since I've started the original plan A, my husband at this point is unwilling to embrace the basic concepts, so until HE is willing to embrace MB concepts (even if it isn't labeled MB concepts to him - he does not like MB) - I will continue plan A.<P>

FHL<P>Here's a different perspective, again from a WS. My H had no idea that he was "doing" Plan A - he had no idea what it was. He's just an all-around nice guy.<P>But, as a WS, I thought that when I told him about the affair he would (1) want a divorce; (2) wouldn't be able to trust me for the rest of my life; (3) be angry as h*** and belittle me; or (4) be so distraught that recovery wouldn't be possible. So, while he may have experienced all of the above in his mind, he never showed that to me. <P>He was always loving and supportive before the A, and in my eyes, it seems like he's tripled that love and support. Has he really done anything different? Yeah, a little bit. He calls me more often, he's more in-tune to my thoughts, he's more willing to talk about our "problems." Is it really a Plan or a lifestyle, I don't know. But from my perspective, someone continued to love me when I did the unimaginable. It is absolutely amazing to me - from my perspective - because I don't know how I would have handled things if I were in my H's shoes.

K,<P>I have the utmost respect for what you accomplished in your marriage and in your willingness to reach out and help others.<P>Although my overwhelming feeling was plain old pain, I think my secondary emotion of anger was rooted in the idea that my very very nice life was messed up. We had a wonderful family and really were very good partners overall. Although I had always yearned for more emotional itimacy, I truly loved and respected H for who he was. It was like the affair fell out of the sky (although I now see little things that contributed...and yes, of course I contributed to the vunerability of our marriage, too).<P>Chris of course had the problem with Pepsi and Oat Bran. When I pressed my H for what was wrong in our relationship he said I never shut the vertical blinds correctly. You gotta admit he was reaching.<P>So although I was fully ready to make and did make changes, I think my angry for the enormous pain created by a stupid mistake.<P>Since Plan A me was just a bit polished regualar old me, I could easily maintain it and process my anger personally and of course by coming here.<P>I continue on hybrid of Plan A and the 4 rules and Susan Page's "One of You can Bring the Two of You Together" ideas. And although my H remains his old nice guy clueless self for the most part, I do see glimmers of progress now and then.<P>I figure this guy is my H for the rest of my life. I am responsible for what I put into the marriage regardless of what I get out. So what choice do I really have to be kind and loving while taking care of myself the best I can, too?<P>Lor, I said that . Hey that must have been one of my bright days <P>Starry-eyed and Buffy...I have wondered how to do a 180 in your relationship when your relationship skills were already pretty good. I guess for me it meant just becoming a little more independent and just doing things for myself. Not selfishly, but realizing if I didn't meet my own needs, NO ONE would. I think my H appreciated my self suffiency.

Plan A has helped me. Before D-day of an EA I had no idea what was wrong. My H had shut me completely out of his life. He also shut everybody else out too and stopped doing activities he enjoyed. I was angry, hurt resentful, tried all the wrong things to get him to open up. D-day was like a huge weight was lifted off of me and I had direction and focus. I went into plan A within an hour of him admitting to me about the OW - just a friend, nothing serious, they talked, they had kissed, it was only a month or two. She is married and is supposedly working on her marriage. I have held up so well that I am shocking myself, so I have to be shocking him. D-day was 7 weeks ago. My H is still in withdrawl. 5 Weeks ago he is telling me he wants out, here is how we will split things up, D stays with me. He is basically telling me he wants a divorce and I am sitting there listening to him and calmly telling him that I do not agree and standing my ground on issues without any LBing. 4 weeks ago he reached out for me in the middle of the night and has been sleeping on the sofa since so he does not do that again. He keeps teling me he is leaving. Everytime he brings it up I tell him that I do not want him to leave but if he chooses to do so I will not stop him and there will be consequences for him doing so. Then the next few days he seems to be coming around some and then he threatens again and I tell him the same thing again. <BR> <BR>My plan A made him mad - he said I was faking it, it is bulls**t and it p****s him off. I see this as a good sign because at least I was getting an emotional reaction from him. At first when I would not react to his anger and take his bait for the fight he was looking for he would get mad and since he is not an angry person normally he does not know how to handle his anger so he would leave and drive around for hours at a time. When he came home he would have a different attitude and be nice until the next blow up. Now when I do not react to his anger it seems to have a calming effect on him. I see him coming around and I see the changes helping me feel better about myself. I have no anger against my H. I am bursting with love and desire. I do not know how long these feelings will stay but every little positive I receive from him helps. Of course there is usually a couple of back steps to deal with but I am managing. <P>He is in withdrawl, says he does not love me, I had the perfect marriage he did not, there is nothing left to save etc. I am loving, respectful, kind, no LB, proving support and just being there for him. If an oppurtunity arises I will make a comment like I miss you, or I love you. I push when he is reseptive and back off when he starts to get defensive. I have left him a Thank you card, bought him a pair of earrings (MLC action he did back around Christmas), wrote him a positive letter letting him know how I felt about him being honest with me, how we are both at fault and I am taking responsibility for my actions and attitudes, how good of a person he is and how I am not giving up on us and that I believe in him after a not so good phone call the other morning.<P>I have a goal and the only way I am going to get to it is with plan A or a 180 in divorce busting terms. I believe they are the same for me. <P>

TNT...you know I love you lots and I am amazed at your commitment to your marriage.<P>SKM...your H sounds wonderful and you sound appreciative. I wish you the very best.<P>Even if your H felt angry, hurt and distraught, Plan A wasn't phoney, because he was working toward what he wanted to feel.<P>I guess I knew what I had to do, even if I didn't feel like doing it every moment. Actually I usually did feel like doing it, but I have to say it did coexist with the layer of hurt and anger under the surface.<BR>

Good thread.<P>Like K said...prior to all this, I was angry with my H for quite a while. Yes, I'd considered the benefits of life without him...By the time this all hit, he was working to hard, depressed and uncommunicative at home, and there were few benefits to life with him. It is still hard for me to admit how angry and resentful I was. And, while my LBs were pretty subtle, I have to admit they were there...it wasn't just him who behaved poorly. <P>Then, I found out he was miserable too. In the couple of weeks before I found this site, I began an instinctive sort of plan A...eliminating the hurtful way I had been treating him, and being supportive of the crisis he was going through (although I did not know at first that someone else was...at least in his mind...involved). What I learned here about Plan A and marriage skills has helped immensely.<P>So, during all those months when he was "in-love" with someone else, and very moody, those times when he cried for her, how did I feel? Mostly compassionate. Every now and then I'd get angry, (and then I'd come here and blow off steam). I was lucky in that I rarely felt like a doormat, probably bcs my H was at least trying (feebly at first, but still). I felt very remorseful for the way I'd contributed to the problems we'd had...that feeling is still a bit hard for me to deal with; I'd much rather be able to say it was all his fault, but it was not. I continued to believe that we would be OK in the end, it was just a matter of sticking out the path and getting there.<P> And, a funny thing happened along the way. I found the person I wanted to be again. The woman who had been hurt and subsequently had resorted to hiding behind a wall and sniping learned that I could stand up to a whole lot more than I ever would have guessed I could. I found that I could face whatever storm the day brought, armed only with the love I continued to show him; no need for a wall. <P>Our marriage is still evolving. We both have learned a lot, and I think will end up in a much better marriage. I can't quite say I'm glad we went thru this, but I am glad to be where we are now.<P>Kathi

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithHopeLove:<BR><B>K,<P>I continue on hybrid of Plan A and the 4 rules and Susan Page's "One of You can Bring the Two of You Together" ideas. <P>FaithHopeLove...where do I find this page???<P>Starry-eyed and Buffy...I have wondered how to do a 180 in your relationship when your relationship skills were already pretty good. I guess for me it meant just becoming a little more independent and just doing things for myself. Not selfishly, but realizing if I didn't meet my own needs, NO ONE would. I think my H appreciated my self suffiency. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>this is something I have learned over the years...my H travels sometimes up to 9 mos out of the year. Because we have 5 kids and and 3 will be in college next year, this is the way we keep ahead of the debt. However, it is not conducive to a great marriage. One of the things that bothers my husband the most is that I am independent now. I don't know how I can not be after 6 years of being by myself dealing with life. One thing that he would love to have is a submissive wife. I would love to be that proverb woman and strive to do so...I am far from it at the moment...<P>Buffy...how do you heap on the admiration. It is my H's #@ EN and since his self-esteem has always been an issue, it is something I am shooting to enhance. <BR>

Buffy-<BR>I too could use some ideas on how to heap on the admiration. It's really hard these days to find something to admire without being insincere.

This is a whole other discussion, but personally I think the Proverbs woman is a pretty independent cookie and not the submissive type that is promoted by some Christian demoniations.<P>I believe when the bible is viewed in its origional language and historical context, the modern submissive role of the wife is not what God intended.<P>To put it in a nutshell. I believe God calls men to love their wife and women to respect their H's. We are to submit to each other. Now obviously a wife that bosses her H around is not being respectful. <P>I find it odd that when the submissive subject comes up, it seems to rarely include or contrast what God calls the man to do, which is to love and care for his wife as he does his own body. A man that demands submission is not being submitting or the kind of H God intends.<P>But again, that is another subject entirely.<P>My H is a bit peculiar as men go in this area. My H has never expected any sort of submission. He values self suffiency and that is a two edged sword. I think his two greatest needs are not to need (self suffiency) and not to be needed (values self suffiency in others). It is a little hard to fill these needs and build intimacy some days. He has never shown any tendency to ruch in and be the knight for anyone. I wish he would be a little more protective of me, but I guess I should be happy he thinks I can take care of myself.

Hi FHL,<P>Very good topic you got here. <P>As for me, I am a transformed man. Any life changing event will mark its impression on us, but this event, by far, has tested me beyond what I thought I could do. <P><B>How nice did you actually feel while Plan Aing?</B><BR>Early on I felt like like poop. Now, I usually feel pretty good. I know I am now doing my best for my wife each and every day. I don't have any regrets for trying to save our marriage. I like myself more. I think I'm one heck of a good husband now. From time to time my Taker rears its ugly head, but I can recognize those times. I accept what my wife gives me back as all she has to give. We're healing very, very, slowly. Much more time must pass. <P><B>How different was Plan A from your pre Plan A demeanor?</B><BR>Pre plan A or pre affair knowledge, I was pretty self centered. I neglected my wife in so many ways I understand why things happened. I wasn't a bad husband, but I wasn't going to win any awards either. Somewhere along the line, my wife and I drifted apart. We stopped talking, we stopped touching, we stopped caring for each other. Neither of us really cared about the other. I don't know why exactly. It certainly wasn't planned. Maybe we just got sucked in to the rut that many families get sucked into. Work, kids, surviving. We just lost focus in our marriage. <P>My Plan A is filled with focus and attention. I now do all those little things that I never did before. I give my wife loads of touch every day. I give her compliments. We talk at length every day now. I leave her little notes telling her how special she is to me. I send her flowers for no reason. I take on lots of the household duties I never did before. As a result, I like the man I have become. My self image has improved. I no longer have any regrets for things I should have done. <P>Thanks for making me think about all this. <P>SHA<BR>

This has gotten interesting.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>. But from my perspective, someone continued to love me when I did the unimaginable. It is absolutely amazing to me - from my perspective - because I don't know how I would have handled things if I were in my H's shoes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>SKM - would that all betrayers could realize this...how much love it takes to continue to love someone when they (1) claim to love someone else; (2) claim not to be "in love" with you anymore and (3) want to start a new life with this OP. How much easier it would be just to give up, move on and get away from all the pain.<P>Cloudy & Starry-eyed - Giving admiration is easy for my H because he's always giving me opportunities to do so. For example, he's lost a lot of weight...and he makes comments about how all the women at the courthouse have notice how much weight he's lost. In the past I would have just ignored him...now I say "Gosh, it really is miracleous how much you have lost and how good you look now." And I think to myself "how can he eat this up this way." But he does and loves it. Or yesterday he said something about needing to really study a real estate matter to determine what needed to be done about it and I said "Well, you if can't find out what's wrong, then no one can since you know more about real estate then anyone in this area." It's easy since there is always something your can find to admire in your H.<P>You may not like him right now particularily, but there must be something about him to admire...even if it is only the way he keeps himself well groomed, or is a good father, or always willing to help people at his own expense...something that makes him feel good about himself. After all underneath that "Mr. Foghead" is a pretty nice man with lots of good qualities.<P>Don't worry about it seeming insincere...I ask my H about this one time and he said although he knew what I was doing it still felt great to him. <P>FHL - My being a nice person was never the problem in our marriage and neither was my self-sufficiency...except that I was too... his EN is to be needed (part of the self-esteem thing). I will admit because of my self-sufficiency I have neglected his needs and have made my 180 in that direction. When you are self-sufficient you don't realize that others are not and need reaffirmation from others, especially people pleasers like my H. I was giving him what I needed not what he needed. I'm trying to change.<P>Buffy <BR><p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited August 04, 2000).]

Wow SHA...it is good to here from you.<P>I want to quickly agree my post discovery Plan A internal mood is far different than my current Plan A (most days anyway).<P>I am also proud of what I have accomplished and how I have grown, even if my outward demeanor hasn't changed much, I am a much stronger person internally. <P>Keep up those notes and flowers. The only notes I find around are shopping lists, to do lists and notes to myself. A flower? What a concept.<P>You know, I wonder what would have happened if I would have had the affair instead. Would my H have transformed as you have? Or if I would have kicked him to the curb upon discovery, would he have worked harder in recovery? <P>No, I am not considering an affair and I know how to run like a gazelle at any questional circumstance. My H is a kind man, a good provider and a wonderful father. <P>But it does bring up another interesting idea. When recovery is as complete as it is going to get (not that you ever stop growing as a couple) who comes out with the better deal?<P>In my case my H became trustworthy and is a committed partner, but pretty much the same clueless guy. Although externally I am not much different, I do think I am at least a somewhat improved wife. I do take the recreational thing more seriously and have made steps to make our home life less chaotic to take pressure off of my H, so I guess that would be improved domestic support.<P>Maybe it is not a betrayed or betrayer thing, maybe it is the Plan A'er vs. the Plan A'ee, which in most cases is the spouse more emotionally invested, which may not change even when recovery is complete.<P>I'm going to think on this a while.

OK...you touched ever so slightly on a nerve. I like being self suffient. I admire H for being self suffient. But I still want to be needed in our marriage. I want him to need my love. Plus as a marriage partner I want to lighten the load on each of us by drawing on one anothers strengths.<P>I don't think I'm needy...and I don't want to be needed to the point he can't function on his own. It is just hard to feel like "one flesh" when the other flesh is an island. <P>Another kind of odd thing about my H guy wise is that he isn't into admiration. I dole it out and he could care less.<P>He doesn't seem to need an attractive spouse, although I am no slouch. He for sure doesn't need coversation. His sex drive isn't what it used to be, but I think that is from being tired with his crazy schedule, he doesn't need my financial security, he knows I am absolutely open and honest so if it is a need I don't think he is aware of it, he does need family commitment, but again he has got that 100%. He's pretty affectionate, but I think he does that to please me. That leaves Domestic support which he is perfectly capable of handling himself. I have to wrestle chores away from him so he gets enough rest, and recreational companionship. Oh and the recreation can only be I swear, things that put my limbs in danger.<P>I wish it could be as easy as verbal admiration. The worst that could happen is that I'd bite my lip <P>I guess my origional point is not to mistake someone that is seeking intimacy through admiration or affection, etc...for someone that is not self suffienct. I think self suffiency and the need for intimacy can coexist.<P>

FHL...you write:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You know, I wonder what would have happened if I would have had the affair instead. Would my H have transformed as you have? Or if I would have kicked him to the curb upon discovery, would he have worked harder in recovery? <P>No, I am not considering an affair and I know how to run like a gazelle at any questional circumstance. My H is a kind man, a good provider and a wonderful father. <P>But it does bring up another interesting idea. When recovery is as complete as it is going to get (not that you ever stop growing as a couple) who comes out with the better deal?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I do often think about this. I think how nice it would be if he put out equal effort. He is trying to be more considerate, but so far (7 months) I'd have to say we've moved more towards his ENs than mine. I think I'm working at "marriage building" and he is sortof vaguely following along. <P>That's OK for now, but there are things that caused me to be hurt and withdraw to begin with...and they DO need to be addressed. And, I DO need someone who will be more emotionally open with me, who will share their thoughts and feelings more. <P>So, sometimes I fear that things will never be quite what I want/need them to be. But, so far we are still working on things, so I'm holding out hope. I don't care who ends up with the "better end of the deal," as long as we both can feel we are getting what we need.<P>

Wow! Great topic, FHL!<P>I have to say almost "ditto" to what K and many others have said. I experienced the "downward spiral" and, looking back, I realize how much I contributed to it ... and I also realize that I was not the only contributor - for those that get upset when we betrayed "blame ourselves" for the affair. When I realized what I had done to contribute to the situation, I instinctively "Plan A'd" and then came here to really find out what I was doing and how to make it better.<P>No, I didn't always feel as nice as I was being, and there were times when I was forcing myself to do things that I didn't really WANT to do - and enjoyed them once I started! That was probably the most shocking thing to me - that I could be wrong about how much fun some things could be. It was sort of like the way we tend to be during the "courtship" phase of our relationships - we do things with our significant others because we want to be with them and because we want to please them! And we discover things we enjoy because we are doing new things.<P>At any rate, for me, Plan A has been a time of discovery, some re-discovery, growth and "coming of age" in many respects. I have always been an odd mix of child and adult - but during the worst part of our marriage, I had lost touch with all of the child except the immaturity of her! I know now, that no matter what happens in the future, I am a better person because of my Plan A - and that I gave my best effort to saving my marriage.<P>FHL, one thing that you said really struck me as the epitome of not just Plan A, but marriage - heck, of life in general! You said, "I am responsible for what I put into the marriage regardless of what I get out." It is so important for us to realize that we all ARE responsible for our actions ... and that we are NOT responsible for the actions of others. Granted that is probably not quite what you meant by it, but that is the bottom line: You must be the best you can be for YOU - not for your husband, not for your parents, not for your boss - not FOR anyone else... If you concentrate on being the best person you can be, regardless of how others view or treat you, you can be satisfied that you have done the right thing.<P>Sorry to get so philosophical - I have those moments occasionally <P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I can see clearly now,<BR>the rain is gone ...