Help me, help me, anybody,<P>You people don't even know me, you don't know the whole story, only parts of it.<P>I need desperately to find a starting point to help you all understand, what and who I am. I don't think I know at this point in my life.<P>I dated the "singer" in the band from 1965 until 1969, May 10 to be exact, the day I married him. Both of us virgins, until we met each other, this could be relevant to my story. Other guys were all over me and I never gave "it" up for them. Most were jerks and I could see straight through them, knowing they only wanted one thing from me.<P>I was a beauty queen of sorts and he was as proud to be with me as I was to be with him.<BR>He was awesome, wirey little Italian guy, and one hell of a singer and such a sweet, honest, wholesome guy; from a good Catholic family, with some local prominence. <P>I on the other hand, was a simple, but yet complex "pretty girl" from a mill-town family that didn't have much. Most of my clothes I borrowed from my married sister. I could turn some heads and made the most of those opportunities. I had "married" men after me also. But no go there said I. I guess I was a tease, maybe?<P>While we were dating he was to good to be true, just admired the hell out of me. Just like my dad did. My dad wanted me to be Miss America. I'm fifth out of seven children (was always told by siblings that I was dad's favorite). <BR>Disappointment #1. I didn't become Miss America, not even close, didn't win local title. Tried twice! Fool girl!<P>But that was ok, now I could focus on my singer man and make our wedding plans. I loved him and we both had high aspirations for our future (which would involve music).<BR>That didn't bother me at all, for I knew he would make it! <P>My mother's health began to deterioate after I became engaged and therefore money for my wedding became a major issue, with the help of my sister and her husband, we went ahead with the plans, because they offered to help us if we would pay them back at some point. <P>With all set to go, my mother had to have major surgery to remove a tumor from her spine that was pressing on the nerves. She couldn't even walk. This was one week before the wedding. Everyone said go ahead with your plans, your mother would want you to.<P>We did go ahead and the day of our wedding my mother lay in the hospital intensive care unit. My aunt, her sister, stood in for her.<BR>It was an incredibly stressful time.<BR>I sobbed at our wedding b/c she wasn't there with us. I can truly say it was not a happy day. And I will always believe in my heart that we should have postponed for her.<P>I sobbed on my honeymoon and wanted to be with my mother so badly. My fantastic husband was so understanding and kind about the entire situation.<P>My mother did recover very well, thank God. But I didn't, I still don't know if it were out of guilt or just the stress of the finances, the wedding, my mother or what, I began having anxiety attacks. <P>We are talking 31 years ago, what was an anxiety attack? No one knew, no one had a clue. I went from doctor to doctor trying to find out what was wrong with me. I mean, I had a major disorder, just knew I was going crazy and so did my sweet wonderful H.<BR>Disappointment #2. New bride having some kind of mental disorder, have I married a NUT, what has happened to my girl?<P>I think back on that now and try to see all of that from his perspective b/c our daughter got married last June and a few months prior she had a few panic attacks b/c of school, the wedding plans, and worrying about the financial end of it. Her fiance and I worked with her to get her through this, along with a little help from her doctor. No big deal, just a little bump in the road. Thank God her's didn't escalate the way I did.<P>Mine became a debilitating disease. I quit my job, stayed with my mother or my sister everyday that my H had to work and sometimes I would go to work with him b/c I couldn't stand to be alone. I was so unexplainably afraid. I wouldn't do anything, nothing, alone.<P>The doctors told my H that my nerves were bad and put me on all of this "zombie" medicine. Soon I began to gain weight, looked so bad, so unattractive. I distanced myself from my H b/c I knew he was so disappointed with me. Our sex life was practically non-exsistant. By the end of our first year together, Boom, bad marriage!<BR>Disappointment#3. New bride is now fat bride and very undesirable, not to mention she is a Zombie!<P>My H's recording group (they were the Hootie and the Blowfish of the late 60's) had to make some serious decisions about their future. In the midst of the Vietnam War, most of them were college students and the recording companies they had signed with wanted them to go on tour, Great! Only one problem: If they go on tour , they have to quit school, if they quit school, they will be drafted! So, they disbanded in order to stay in school and get their degrees instead of getting their legs blown off. Some of them did persue the military, my H tried to but his very poor vision kept him out of the service.<BR>Disappointment#4. H is unsuccessful with this area of his music career, a definite set back for us both.<P>H begins another group and starts doing pills and drinking. Me, very disappointed and upset with his depression. I too, am suffering from depression over my state of mind and my fatness.<P>We muddled through the next four years, arguing, blaming, degrading and just down right tearing each other apart for all we were worth. We both didn't lift each other up at all.<BR>Disappointent#5. We are both a big disappointment to each other and we needed help. But where? More Zombie meds, more alcohol, more uppers?<P>Then a miracle happened! Our precious, sweet, son was born. This lifted us up to a new level. It gave me a reason to live again, b/c someone needed me and would love me even if I were FAT. But, the birth of our son, even though we were both so very proud of him , only added fuel to my H's fire, over time, b/c now I left him in the dust. Not literally, but in the sense that all of my focus was on this baby.<BR>Disappointment #6. Wife doesn't love me or need me, she now has baby to play with and love.<P>We almost got it all together when our beautiful daughter was born 18 months later.<BR>My H participated in her birth and that really bonded us for a long time after. Some or one of our greatest and most treasured memories are her birth! <BR>

Hey, Catplay:<P>What happened!!! I was reading your story and then.....it just ended way back in...197? something. What's up now.<P>I'm about to crash, so I may not get back with you today, but let us know what's going on so we can help.<P>Buffy

Trying to continue this saga!<P>Things were going fairly well for us marriage wise, financially and with the two new, little people we were having a grand old time, The happy little suburban family. Husband self-employed (with his Dad). Mommy at home with the kids and doing all the carpooling and activities and such. Several new band groups have come and gone since the Big one. H is still loving his music and holding out hope for another chance. Enter: new groups, female singers are added for spice. Lots of travel away from home and trying to keep the business with Dad alive.<BR>Not much time for the kids and the stay at home mom, but that's ok b/c she knew what H loved when she married him.<BR>Disappointment #7. H doesn't have time for Mom or kids, too busy, she is happier with them than with me anyway, I'll just go off and sing, drink, and earn some extra money while I boost my ego.<P>We outgrow our small home and buy a slightly larger one. Finances are a big issue, his mom and dad help us out alot b/c after all he went to work with his dad when none of their other children would. So they feel like they owe us. We struggle for awhile, but all in all things are looking up. Seven years later we are having our third child, a son. He was so special and was born at a good time for us. The first two are now in school and I (mom) could focus on him now.<BR>H still persuing musical career, even if on a local level. For the ego boost and for the good money it brings in. He is terrific at what he does, can't take that away from him!Disappointment #8 H unhappy with self for not succeeding in music industry, in business with dad and not prospering as hoped it would. Mom, lonely, sad, depressed 99.9% of the time. Dad drinks too much, stays out to late after band jobs.<P>Seven years later, boom, another baby boy. Beautiful, needless to say. At this point I am forty years old and scared to death of being pregnant at my age. H was very supportive and was my dream H during this period of time for us. All went well and so glad it was all over. But now, we have two teenagers, a very young adolescent and a baby. My H literally abandoned me for health club, tennis teams, bars, drinking and singing and just avoiding the entire home front all together.<BR>Disappointment #9. H is never home, feels left out b/c of all the attention the children get from mom. Very stressful times for mom, doing the kids and the bills and wondering where H is.<P>After ten years of this very stressful lifestyle that we have made for ourselves, My H decides he has had enough and moves out as of July 3, 1999. By the end of July, I discover why he had moved out. He has tried to replace me with someone who would carry him away from all of the responsibilities of fatherhood and husbandtry. Someone who will let him do what he wants to do b/c he has the right to do what he wants to do.<BR>Disappointment # 10. H moves out b/c he feels trapped and stale in our relationship so he makes room for his new muse in his life. 11 months with ow already. Hot and heavy, not just an EA, but the real thing.<P>Spent 6 months vascillating btwn me and the ow. I finally said you need to decide with whom you want to be with, b/c I refuse to live this way any longer. So, he decides it's me and the family.<P>Things have been the typical rollercoaster ride I have read so much of on these threads.<BR>Good days, bad days, now good weeks, bad weeks. Only one major problem, he now says that he is unhappy b/c he feels like I bagder him too much about his whereabouts and what he's doing and he just wants to be able to do what he wants to do, when he wants to do it and that if we are to live in an emotional divorce then so be it b/c he is not going to leave b/c this is his house just as much as it is mine and he doesn't have to leave. He came back b/c me or the children might need him and that I couldn't handle it if he did leave again.<BR>Disappointment #11. H made a commitment to help make our marriage better that the one we had, that was the stipulation we agreed (verbally) on for his coming back home. He has done very little, and I can tell he is becoming more and more unhappy! I find it very difficult to meet someone else's needs if they act as though they don't give a flying flit about mine.<P>Now, tonight the topic of discontent is: He is not so sure he has made the right decision. It was made out of a moral issue only. He wants to know how he can go about life doing what he wants to do, when he wants to do it and feel good about that instead of having the moral value of what he does disturb him.<BR>He also told me that he would like for me to loose 30 more pounds to see if I would stay with him or go with the first Joe that gives me a second look. He wants me to experience what he felt with his ow. He wants me to experience how it feels to have betrayed someone, and what it feels like to live with that pain. <BR>I told him, I don't need to experience this pain,furthermore I am not about having affairs, I want to be with him b/c I feel like our efforts have always been thorted for some reason or another, and we deserve another chance at life together. Not to mention that I did experience that euphoric state of having someone "drool" over you, many times. But, many years ago and I don't need that now. I'm past that, I want my H back, I want to try to make this work. I cannot go back 30 years and change what is written in our history. <BR>Disappointment #12. H wants me to loose 30 more pounds, have an affair b/c he did and to let him live here and do what he wants to do when he wants to do it and not make a moral issue of it.<P>Bottom line: I'm 52 years old, still have an 18 and 11 year old in our home. I am totally dumbfounded and I absolutely don't know what I am too do. <BR>I don't want to live in an emotional divorce with this man. He loves his alcohol, he is so depressed, feels like such a failure and I'm afraid it is too late for me to pull him up or out of this life sytle that he supports all by his lonesome. <BR>I guess I do support it or I wouldn't be here now. Is this not the most screwed up mess you have ever read? I could probably write a book. <P>Sorry this wouldn't fit in a nut shell! Thirty one years won't fit...<P>Sorry, one more thought, My therapist, (after hearing in detail of our traumatic beginnings) told me she couldn't believe that I had never been treated for depression all of these years, b/c what I experienced and never had resolved most certainly has held me in a depressive state and now add environmental stress to this.<BR>They have prescribed an anti-depressant for me to get me out of this environmental funk. <BR>In thinking about this, I believe that my h is afraid I will get better emotionally, loose weight and turn heads and not need him so much any more. I was hoping he would be happy for me if someone could find a way to help me become the person I once was or supposed to be, before this terrible disorder took control of my life.<P>Pray for us please!<P>Cathy<BR>

Hi there Cathy<BR>Prayers going up for you and your hubby .... My goodness but you have been through alot a happy ending is what your need work hard at it I am sure it will be yours<BR>Jen

It sounds like you, like so many of us, have not had a fairy tale life. The good thing is that you can see where so many things went wrong. It doesn't seem like you are unfairly blaming him or taking all the blame yourself. That is good! So, if both of you contributed to making your lives "bad", you have the same power to make it better, right?<P>Don't underestimate the power of morality. If that is what got him to come back home, so what! Use it to your advantage. As long as he is there, you have the potential to make him stay not just because he feels he should, but because he wants to.<P>So, what can you do? <P>Well, I know how it feels to give and feel nothing is returned or that the receiver is undeserving. Again, so what? If you want him to stay and for things to change, this is what you must sacrifice. It's hard and feels self depreciating, but it is what is required. Are you going to let your pride stand in the way of reconciliation?<P>You complain about his wanting you to lose 30 pounds, but it sounds like you don't particularly like being heavier and would feel better about yourself if you regained some of your beauty queen youthfulness. So, do it for yourself! You're going through a hard time, and you can use the boost that comes from looking good. Get your hair done. Buy a new outfit and get a new attitude, girl! That beauty queen is still there. You can make the best out of the physical assets you have no matter what your size.<P>We all want to be loved for who we are inside, but when we feel good about how we look on the outside, it's easier for us to love ourselves and allow ourselves to be loved in return. I am not saying there is anything wrong with the way you are now. What I am saying is, if that's what it takes to make you feel more attractive and for him to be more interested, is it such a bad thing? You can resent him for it or look at it as something that can change your life. If it were me, I'd go for it.<P>Now, about the depression. Sounds like you know you could use some help. My question is, are you getting it? There is no shame in not being able to cope with life's tragedies. The harm comes in not ever rescuing yourself from that. And the power of that lies in YOU. Give yourself the gift of therapy. It will make you stronger and better able to deal with your own feelings as well as your family situation. <P>Don't blame the disorder. Don't use it as a crutch to stay comfortable in the same life situation. You are stronger than this. You can change. It will be hard, but you will be rewarded with a more fulfilling life if you persevere. You are not a condition, and this condition does not have to be a part of your existance forever. I assume it served you in some way in the past, but you can let go of this whenever you are ready. You just have to make the first step.<P>It could be that your husband fears you being more attractive and alive. It could be that you fear it. You could both use this fear as a rationalization to stay stuck, but I don't think you want to do that. This situation is prodding you to action. What are you going to do? (I hear the music swelling in the background and the crowd cheering for you).<P>It's not as bad as it seems to you right now. You have blessings. Despite all you see as disappointments, your H stayed with you all those years! He was committed. You have beautiful children who love you. It wasn't a lifetime of zombified numbness, but you have a chance to experience each day from here forward living in the moment. Don't you want that for yourself? <P>Whether we are in the throes of despair or the arms of ecstacy, we are alive! And that is a glorious thing. I'd take those lemons life is giving you and make some lemonade, girl! Don't just make lemonade, but make a million selling it to your friends and neighbors. You *can* do it. It starts with changing yourself.

The right anti-depressant may change your life. It made the difference between night and day with my husband, and I took them for 6 months in order to cope with the life we had when he wouldn't take them.<P>We all want to be loved exactly as we are, even when we don't love ourselves that way. I'm not going to advise you diet...but exercise is crucial for women's bones, the natural seratonin release also helps with depression, and sometimes you just look & feel better. I'm off my own exercise program at the moment (hmmm and why is that? ) but when I was lifting weights I felt and looked strong and fit.<P>You have a lot on your shoulders, tackle it piece by piece.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Hi Catplay,<P>I'd like to pass on a few things that I know about Panic Disorder. <P>Mine started in my late teens, and escalated to almost total agoraphobia. I lived in a nightmare for many many years. I managed to function while raising my three children by taking tranquilizers, and becoming addicted to them. This also started in the 70's when there was almost no information on Panic Disorder...the Doc's called it a nervous condition back then.<P>When Prozac came out I was terrified to take it. I read all the stories about people doing crazy things while on it. I also had some OCD stuff going on, so those stories terrified me even more. Well, I got a perscription and started taking it, and it changed my life. I mean...big time. <P>I can now do almost anything. Going all the way through the mall still scares me...driving on a busy freeway still gets to me. But let me tell you, I flew to another state on a four-seater airplane last month! Huge accomplishment for me. I mean, I was at the point for a while that I could hardly go to the grocery store.<P>Did this effect my marriage? You bet. My H was always there for me, taking care of me during the first 15 years of our marriage. He did everything for me, because I just could not do much. It drove him away. It was just too much for a person, to constantly take care of another that way. My H, like yours is a highly social person, and to tell the truth, I was just not a whole lot of fun to be around for a long long time. I was insecure...gained a LOT of weight, just didn't know how to have fun.<P>There are so many anti-depressants out there right now. YOu have more options than I did when I started taking Prozac.<P>I'm addressing you right now, rather than your marriage problems, because until you get to work on yourself, and start feeling better about yourself, nothing else will happen. Your extra weight should not make a difference in your H's opinion of you, but unfortunatley...everyone wants an attractive spouse, especially men like your H and mine.<P>I know it's hard to do, but take a look at how you want to change your life for yourself, not for your H. My H's affair was exactly the kick in the butt I needed to get to work on ME. Even though I don't struggle with the Panic Disorder as much as I used to, I still used it as an excuse to not live my life to it's fullest.<P>Your H is not afraid you'll get better, turn heads and not need him as much anymore...that is the kind of woman he wants and needs, and you can be all of that, and more. Don't be afraid to get better Catplay. Even in our 40's and 50's we can learn and be better and have full lives.<P>BTW..there is a book called "Hope and Help for Your Nerves". Kind of an ancient book, written back when Panic Attacks were called Nervous Breakdowns, but it saved my life...gave me a new way to look at the whole Panic problem. Teaches cognitive thinking skills to "float" through panic and not avoid it.<P>As usual, this is too long, too much coffee again. Please keep posting and letting us know how you are doing.<P>allison

Cat,<P>Did you ever find out the difference b/w EA's & PA's? (You asked back on Aug 1st in the recovery forum)<P>Emotional affair=no sex. Lots of debate done here on what the definition of an emotional affair entails. All I know is my H had both kinds with his OW. They told eachother that they loved eachother. They had sex. It's all bad. But we're recovering pretty well--I think we'll be the one of the one's who make it.<P>Anyway, praying for your recovery from depression, Cat. So glad you're getting help and finally taking care of yourself. <BR> I'm on prozac (weaning off now) and it really has been a lifesaver!<P>God Bless!

The kids have been on all day, so didn't get to respond to all you lovely people.<P>To az Allison: So sorry you were in that predicament also, it is a living hell. Knowing you can't even get past the produce section of the grocery store without feeling as if your heart will stop. Early on,we would be in the car and I would get down on the floor board of the car so I couldn't see things going by. Scary!!!<P>I've been much better since first child was born, I guess he was a blessed diversion. I still have a twinge of panic in certain situations but, I have learned through hypnosis how to tell it to come on and get me. It really works!<P>Thanks for your thoughts and concern. Have never had anyone to discuss this issue with. Some of the girls in my bridge club know I'm prone to such disorders and they still love me.<P>Doctor is lowering my dosage of Wellbutrin SR b/c it was making me very "active", kind of like nesting when you are about to give birth. I've been cleaning everything!!!<P>To Leilana: Your name reminds me of Hawaii.<P>I haven't checked that post of Aug.1, can't remember where I posted.<P>I think my h and I will also be ones to make it. H has agreed to go see therapist (psych.), not a counselor, b/c he truly knows now that he is "sick" with some issues. It really kind of scares me but, if he gets the help he needs, hopefully our marriage with become much better, if it doesn't end as a result of his therapy.<P>My H had a full blown PA with ow. He had planned to live with her, but she lives 70 miles from our town and he didn't want to commute, and she didn't want to live in our town, too bad, she could have gotten to know me better!!!<P>Today, my h approached me with much remorse about his behavior last night. It is brought on by too much alcohol, you know.<P><BR>H was very sorry and hoped he hadn't said anything cruel to me. He has never been physically abusive to me. I want so much to believe he is not alcoholic, but I think he could be. His grandad, mother, dad and sisters were and are. If he goes to the psych. I'm sure the doc. will pick up on this.<P>H called me late this afternoon and asked to speak to Cathy, and then proceeded to ask me for a dinner date and he would pick me up at 6:45. It was such a sweet and cute gesture. <BR>We had a nice dinner out , came home and watched the Do Wap groups on PBS. He went to sleep earlier, I guess he is wiped out from last night. <P>I wonder though if I will be able to hang on to this relationship long enough for us to see if the meds help me and if therapy helps him (probably meds for him too).<P>I told him my love and any respect I have left for him is fading daily and seems to go more quickly with each disrespectful incident we go through.<P>This was a brighter day despite the night before. Thank you all for responding, sorry I can't write to each one of you, if I did I would be at this keyboard all night again. I need some rest!<P>Sincerely, Cathy

I too have been maried a long time, except that I thought I had a perfect marriage.<BR>Well guess not, or at least it was until H decided he needed to have an affair....<BR>What has helped me is taking another look at myself. I have read many of the books suggested on this site. I am reading them again with the objective of not fixing "my H" but knowing ME better. <BR>The one that has really helped focus on ME is "Relationship Rescue" Dr. Phil McGraw.<BR>I have done the things suggested in the other books, they have helped us restore some sort of civility to our relationship, but I want more and must discover what part I truly had in "all " of this and try to fix myself. <BR>H is getting ready to leave town to interview for another job out of state, and now I'm not so "afraid" of his leaving. <BR>I felt I was given the chance to show him how much I still cared about him and loved him. Until he is ready to make choices and be happy with them (staying or leaving) they will always be the wrong choices in his eyes. <BR>So now that he is leaving "again" I will take this time to discover myself, who I am, what I want if we never get back togehter and how to move on with my life.<BR>Stange but now that I've changed my focus on what I can do, instead of what I can't. I feel so much more in control of my own life.<BR>Hope this book helps. <BR>Your H and you have been together thru good times and bad, this is just another road to cross on the path of life.... Hang in there. Do for yourself , then you will be able to do for others. <BR>I know us Mom's we always put ourselves not 3rd but 33rd. Well now take time to work on you, let God, your H and his therapist work on him. Just be there to support and comfort him during the bad times. I hope he will do the same for you.<BR>Take care<BR>TYra

Catplay,<P>I read your postings and I am sure I will get a few things wrong, but my general impression from reading all of this is your H is depressed. He is at an age where one starts to look back on life and realize how many things didn't get done or acheived. We all do this. This stage is often called the Mid Life Crisis. <P>It seems to me that the alcohol is just self medication for the depress and once he sees the docs, there is a good chance things will get better. <P>From you last post it seems to me he is still in love with you but was looking for an escape for his troubles. This is not the time to be telling him you are running out of love for him. This the time for you to use Plan A, big time. Please read up on it if you haven't. NSR has many good places on this site booked marked and you can get to his greeting by clicking on the colored NSR I just pasted into this thread. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank> NSR </A><P>Catplay, it seems to me you have every reason to be optimistic that your marriage will survive and thrive, but it will take patience and time. You will learn to hate those words . So read up on the items in NSR's post and hang in there.<P>It seems to me your H wants this to as well.<P>God Bless,<P>JL