No, as far as I know, H has not started back up with Cafe Woman or anyone else.<P>It's just that I am increasingly thinking, "I want a divorce." That I'm tired of living with a man who is not in love with me, although I believe he loves me as a person (I guess). I'm tired of living with the pain of having a H who has failed to do any more toward recovery than break up with OW, go to only one counseling session, buy me a new wedding band, and be nice to me. And, oh yeah, have sex with me once in a while again. I'm tired of living with a H who thinks that the wedding band is enough...no recommitment required. I'm tired of being a wife who doesn't have a husband.<P>Last weekend, I stayed at our new vacation spot from Thursday night until Monday noon. I was working my butt off to make it a nice and pleasant "home", but I was happy up there. I did NOT want to come home!!! I found myself thinking that I would just love to live there all by myself. And, while at Walmart, I was at the checkout counter and looking around while I waited. I did a double-take at this guy who was about 20 feet away...I don't know why, as I barely glanced at him. But, when I looked again, I was attracted to his beautiful eyes. Other than that, he did not look like my type at all. We never spoke, but I was amazed at my reaction to a complete stranger.<P>I know I still love my H, but I'm beginning to suspect that my lovebank is draining. I don't care for the obligatory sex I feel we're having. The hurtful remark he made about pleasuring me being "too much trouble" still rings in my ears. Other than a tweak of my breast or a grope of my rear, the only sexual/romantic interaction we have is when he reaches for me in bed a couple of times a week.<P>I have told him how I feel about just about everything, but I've pretty much kept my mouth shut about his cheating because he considers any mention of it to be "punishment". He is just not going to do a darned thing except what HE wants to do. He will not do anything that he perceives as "kissing my @$$", yet I'm supposed to kiss his. Our so-called "recovery" is supposed to be totally on his terms.<P>In the meantime, I'm getting sadder and more unhappier in our marriage. I think that I'm burned out on over 2 years of Plan A, although I do feel that I'm a better and stronger person for it. I do think that my H thinks that I'm a doormat. Well, I feel like shaking that rug out.<P>I am seriously considering going up to our new place for a couple of weeks, and leaving a letter telling him how I feel and asking for no contact from him during the time I'm away. I need to think without being in pain or being roped in by his temporary sweetness (when I pull away). I know that I run the risk of his going out to Cafe Woman or someone else, but I'm almost to the point where I don't care...it would be almost a relief to have a good reason to kick him out.<P>My taker is taking over, but after putting up with his emotionally abusive behavior for over 26 years (and probably his cheating for that length of time) and trying to Plan A for over 2 years, I think it's high time. Right now, I don't see our lives as ever changing from what it is right now.<P> I don't want to grow old without ever again feeling like my H is in love with me.

Are really and for true doing the Plan A thing? Isn't plan A where you are supposed to be figuring out what each other's emotional needs are and how to fulfill them? No, actually, this is supposed to be a recovery, if he is home and not messing around.<P>Sounds like he is not doing the textbook things, but he did make some small moves in the right direction--did you reciprocate?<P>Being nice goes two ways, you know. You're nice to him (he's had an affair, you've got to grit your teeth and do it, I admit) then hopefully, he is nice to you, and then you are nice to him, on and on<P>However, no matter what effort you are putting into being nice, you gotta figure out what it is he wants, and he had to do the same for you (the textbook thing I was talking about) Did you mention this to him, this research that he has to do to learn what will fufill your emotional needs? Try approaching him about learning your needs.<P>Also, it is quoted that no matter how much effort and love you are putting into the situation, if you are being thoughtless, it's like putting water into a sieve. What's the point?<P>If he is tweaking and groping, he is interested in you. Maybe you gotta meet him in the middle. Granted, I know it's hard (you have been through a lot) but he is making small steps to connect in his own way, it sounds like.<P>Also, one counseling session is not going to cut it. You guys need help, and if he is playing macho man, maybe a different kind of counseling, a more anonymous kind, like a seminar, will help. Or another counselor.<P>Well, anyways, I feel it's not over for you, so don't Plan B. Why? Plan B is to give him a choice between you and someone else and to protect your own emotions. That isn't your situation anymore, is it?

Sweetpea, if he won't go to a counselor, do you go alone? A long Plan A (I was 18 months) is exhausting, confusing, frustrating. I know I had a big, old, deep PIT full of anger that I didn't even know had accumulated because I was being so good and loving. <P>I think there is a reason why Dr. Harley recommends 6 months for Plan A, then a move to Plan B. The Plan A person wears out and even if the spouse comes back, the WS doesn't know what a cold, cruel world it is without the love of the Plan A spouse. <P>Plan B is for the spouse who is still actively having an affair. You sound like you just want him to treat you better/more lovingly. You also sound like your lovebank is making that nasty gurgle. If he wants everything his way, then he's not doing POJA or the 4 rules for successful marriage, and I doubt you are getting 15 hours/week of quality time. As you know, in recovery or whatever, marriage takes two.<P>I don't see a problem with going away for a bit to think, process your hurt & anger and work through forgiveness, as long as it doesn't include the guy with the beautiful eyes . You can take a break from doing all the relationship work and see if your H begins to do his part. I think the letter detailing your needs, wants, wishes, dreams along with a copy of SAA is a good idea, I would maybe not say "no contact" but I would not make contact, I'd wait for him.<P>If you go and he isn't faithful, he probably wasn't going to be. <P>On the other hand, is there any opportunity for the 2 of you go on a romantic holiday? Your vacation home? Is there an activity or sport you can both take up?<P>I do empathize, my H was a lot like yours sounds before our last separation. He had only been home about 6 weeks that time and I remember thinking all I was getting was a warm back in bed. The difference in him now from then is like night and day, but he is the one who chose to change himself--and that's no help to you, other than...change is possible. <P><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Bernzini and Lor,<BR> I've been Plan A-ing for almost 2-1/2 years now, with only a few big lovebusting hissy fits, although it seems as I got better results after those than I get from being sweet, loving, and trying to meet all his needs. I haven't had a hissy fit in a long time, and there are SO MANY things that are lovebusters for my H! <P> Take this afternoon, for instance. My cellphone had a message in my voice mailbox. It was my H's voice, saying, "(garbled first part) and then 250 dollars." I listened several times, but couldn't figure out what the heck he was talking about! Anyway, when I saw him, I asked him what the message was about. "What message?" he asked. "The message you left on my cellphone." "I didn't leave you a message." he said. "But, honey, you said something about $250, and I wondered what you were talking about." "By God, I'm tired of being called a liar! I didn't leave you a d___ned message!" he blustered, as he stormed off. Well, our son heard all this, so I called my mailbox and let son listen to it (H refused). Son said, "It's Daddy, all right." H finally decided to listen, and said, "I don't know what that's all about, but I wasn't leaving you any message." He just came in a while ago and said, "Well I guess I was talking to L (one of his friends) when I was trying to call you and that stupid voice mail must've picked it up."<BR>I'm talking about a man who cannot discuss ANYTHING with me (if I'm not agreeing with everything he says) without going into a rant about being called a liar. I already posted last week about how this just bugs the heck out of me (Imagine! HE objects to being called a liar! :rolleyes . Never mind that I may just be telling him what I think about something or that I heard a different story or whatever....I'm automatically calling him a liar. <P>His emotional needs? Well, it's hard to figure sometimes, because he says there is nothing he needs that I don't provide. However, he does need me to be a virtual workhorse...literally expects me to work like a man, even though I work 60-70 hours at our business. He would love to have a spotless house, but I've never been a terrific housekeeper, and there is a lot going on here, with two house dogs and with our 4 grandkids coming over a lot. I do have a problem with exhaustion---I'm sure that a lot of it is emotional exhaustion, but some of it is due to a mild thyroid disorder, probably caused by lupus...which can also affect energy levels.<P>Anyway, I've been to counselling, although I'm not going now. H agreed to go ONE time, but he said that he doesn't have any problem...he's not the one who needs help. Counselor agreed that if he didn't want counselling, then counselling wouldn't help. She also agreed with me that H has some major problems in not being able to open up to me.<P>Self-help stuff is a bunch of garbage, according to my H. He's not interested. If I'd just do what he says, we'll be fine. HE KNOWS IT ALL!!!! That means that I can never bring up the subject of his cheating again. He refuses to renew our wedding vows, although he told the counselor that it wasn't unreasonable of me to want that. He says the idea of "The 10-second Kiss" is silly, and refuses to do it. I'm supposed to agree with him on everything he wants to do. Now, let me say this: he is not nearly the tyrant he used to be. He does load the dishwasher and cook. He keeps the yard cut and vehicles maintained.<P>No, I'm feeling discouraged because I just can't feel that he's in love with me again. He loves me because I'm a good person, and he's told me that I'm an outstanding "mama". He does tell me that he loves me, but usually just when we have sex, although once in a while he'll tell me he loves me before we go to sleep and on the phone when one of us is gone on a trip.<P>He told the counselor that he wants our lives to be like they were before I got on this kick about Cafe Woman. Well, excuse me, but that was HORRIBLE!!! We were just co-existing....barely even speaking to each other.<P>I really think that the only reason my H broke it off with Cafe Woman and doesn't want a divorce is because he stands to lose financially....big time, since our finances are so tied up in our business and everything would have to be refinanced, and because he fears the reaction from our kids and probably his family, too. They know nothing of all this, although I suspect his oldest brother (now deceased) knew. That brother cheated on his wife, too, so H wouldn't have been afraid that his brother would disapprove of him.<P>And, Lor, don't worry abot the guy with the beautiful eyes...I don't think I could trust ANYBODY for a long, long time, if ever. Heck! I can't even FLIRT with another guy....tried, but guilt overcame me! <P>I'm just thinking that I don't want to live like this forever, but it seems that H wants to. <P><BR>

Sweetpea,<BR>Let's just sentence your H to several cyber wacks of the MB frying pan. <P>Wish I could help.<P>Lor

I can sympathize, so I will be your listening ear;<P>My husband and I never had any REAL problems with emotional needs, just fighting, love busters.<P>So I kind of know where you stand. It's like walking on eggshells, trying not to do anything to make him mad, having to accept the blame for every little thing that goes wrong, being told that you are lying, that you aren't accepting responsibility.<P>When in fact, it's the guy blaming who feels inadequate. You know it, and try to help, but he resists your help. He doesn't need any help, because he is perfect.<P>Whatever is going on in these mens' heads, I don't know. I wish there was a magic pill for it.<P>But as for the EA, I have never, never slammed him for it, called him a name, yelled at him. I just asked questions that I deserve the answer to, and try to understand. He calls this "punishment" for what he can't take back, if I even mention it.<P>I don't know. Now I know that there are two of my husband out there.