I've been struggling with my unmet needs after over 2 years of Plan A.<P>I have so much admiration for Lostva and her ability to give such unconditional love for her H without expecting anything back....wanting only for his happiness and being so unselfish for herself.<P>However, I've been thinking. (I warned you, didn' I? )<P>OK, my H apparently stopped whatever he was doing with Cafe Woman as soon as I confronted him with "Are you in love with someone else?" However, it has been a long ol' haul to get to where we are now, and I fear that we are stuck. I don't believe my H is "in love" with me, and I'm doubting if he ever will be again.<P>Now, I've been Plan A-ing for such a long time, and except for a few LBs when my taker took over (like when I threw the sex toys across the room after he went to sleep on me when we checked into a motel room for a little romance), I think I've done fairly well. I've managed to learn to control my temper, think before I speak, etc....all things that I needed to do, BTW.<P>I just have a problem with the idea that I should just continue to meet his needs (one of which seems to be NEVER making my own needs known ) without expecting some of my own to be met. In my mind, if he is really in love with me, he should be eager and more than willing to meet my needs. I am more than eager and willing to meet his needs, but I keep thinking this: If he is not in love with me, how can HE truly be happy? And, since I do want him to be happy, am I just keeping him tied to me through guilt (as well as finances and what our grown children would say)?<P>Do I make sense? Heck, I'm just too tired to even type straight tonight! But, really, does anyone understand what I'm trying to say?

I think I understand, but I think you may be making a few leaps here.<P>Assuming something was going on with Cafe Women, you might be misinterpreting what your H "got" from that involvement.<P>If you admittedly needed to work on your temper and a few things, could it be possible that CW fulfilled needs that were not the typical romantic sexual stuff?<P>I mean, maybe your H was only looking for some ego stroking or something. When you confronted and showed him YOU wanted him, YOU easily filled the need, so CW was no longer needed. Dropping her didn't appear to be a huge problem. And didn't she even tell you how much he loved you?<P>Doesn't you H have some health challenges? Maybe he is just too tired and just too clueless to put forth much of an effort, but he is happy with the relationship.<P>I'm not saying he shouldn't meet your needs, obviously he should.<P>I am just saying that maybe the reason he isn't meeting your needs has nothing to do with the "in love" feelings or lack of, that you are assuming.<P>I bet if you left him, he would be lost and devasted. Maybe he sees the two of you as an unit and since you are a "given" he doesn't see the need to put forth much effort. Maybe he'd like you to just be content with just being together.<P>I know this doesn't solve your problem, but sometimes we have to make sure we have the right perception of the problem.<P>I wish I did.

Do you think FHL is right, that the problem is showing you he loves you?<P>Boy do we confuse these issues. I came from the other side. I thought for years my h loved me a whole lot, just didn't know how to show it. According to him, he never did and this is talking way past when the fog lifted.<P>But I think there are many more men in the former category, your h maybe, FHL's h for sure.<P>Have you two read Give and Take by Harley? It is less mentioned around here, but was the most helpful for me in seeing how marriage has to be both.<P>Sweetpea, you have to let him know in non-LB, but straightforward ways about your unmet needs. They can't read minds, and the more clueless they are, the more has to be spelled out.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sweetpea:<BR><B>However, it has been a long ol' haul to get to where we are now, and I fear that we are stuck. I don't believe my H is "in love" with me, and I'm doubting if he ever will be again</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Right now i'm struggling with the same situation, the difference is that H told me he is unhappy b/c in spite of my efforts (9 months Plan Aing) he cannot find inside him that "special feeling" he lost. He also said that he knows himself pretty well and he is sure that that feeling will never come back "although" he loves me and always will b/c i am the mother of his son.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I just have a problem with the idea that I should just continue to meet his needs (one of which seems to be NEVER making my own needs known ) without expecting some of my own to be met <HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>DITTO<P>Plan A is really mental b/c we need all our neurons to control temper, angry, specially to control TAKER and at the end of all this controlling things i have a question for you (someone asked me that and i am still thinking)<P><B>Are you plan Aing just because you want to keep your husband or are you plan Aing because you truly love your hubby and realize that you have failed him in certain areas and desire to make those changes? </B><P>Now i am trying to find the reasons of reaching my goal (save my marriage), till now it was too mental and my LOVE is where? How is my lovebank with my EN unmet? and if my Love Bank is depleted isn't that mean that i am not in love anymore?? What a mess!! Sorry for put you in this situation but i need some lights<BR>

Sweetpea:<P>I'm with FHL and schizzo here. Pick up "Give and Take" and use it with your husband (or on him, if he won't read). <P>Complete honesty is very important, and that's where you've been holding back (to "keep the peace"). You need to let him know, in no uncertain terms, what your needs are and how you want him met. If he's unwilling to budge, then I'd suggest a separation. I'd also suggest that you might try Steve or Jenn's counseling skills before you undertake that process (and see if they can rope your husband into talking with them on the phone).<P>Harley isn't adverse to separations as a tool---it's just down pretty far on the list. It's impossible to Plan A for ever, if your spouse will not meet your needs.

You've gotten some great replies...<P>Stick with <B>K</B> thoughts on honesty...<BR>...see if you can approach your H with a... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/002262.html" TARGET=_blank>How to say my feelings without it being a LB</A>-style.<P>Plan A, in general, cannot go on forever...<BR>...if you think it's time...<BR>...plan the separation (Plan B) carefully.<P> <P>Jim

As K has pointed out before, Plan A is supposed to be during the ongoing affair.<P>While I will continue to improve myself as I begun to in Plan A, recovery involves both of us.<P>You guys are scaring us. Separation should be way down the list (I guess as the big stick FHL mentions). And plan B is for spouses who will not give up the affair, no?<P>First we have to make our needs known clearly and work with the clueless spouse where they are at.<P>I posted on another thread to FHL that I thought it was Jennifer that convinced my h to get off his duff, but he told me just this morning that it was my persistence in showing him that WE could never have the marriage we wanted if he did not do his part, and that I wasn't going to settle for anything less.<P>Sweetpea, you mentioned Lostva. She did do a great plan A, but her h changed when he came home. I don't know if he needed the kind of prodding my h did or not. They've only been back together a few months and I hear he is doing well learning to meet her needs.<P>It is NOT A LOVE BUSTER to expect to have your needs met. I see this all the time on this forum. You know the saying, it's not what you say, but how you say it?<P>This is sooo true. An LB would be having an emotional outburst, criticizing, etc.<P>We can and should calmly express our feelings and expect that they be considered important.

Man oh man, I think your husband is sharing genes with my husband.<P>Seriously! You said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>(one of which seems to be NEVER making my own needs known) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Here is what I always say.... Everything around here, including our relationship is hunkie dorie as long as I act like a piece of furniture....(ie, do not have feelings or if I do, make sure I don't share them.) or how about: All he wants is the facts... If I include my opinion or my feelings, then he high tails it the other way, or starts working in the philosophy of "a good offense is a good defense".....<P>So, I hear EXACTLY what you are saying.<P>Okay, some other similarities from your situation to my situation... Your husband DENIES and that is how he seems to ALWAYS handle situations. Okay, you know I waited forever for disclosure day, and here is what I got..... "She spent the night, nothing happened, and it was an almost mistake. If you can't handle that, I'm getting divorced." <P>Okay, so we both have done "Predisclosure plan A's", and have not graduated to the 4 rules of protection. Okay, so until we can get a commitment to the 4 rules, what else are we supposed to do? How can we not get frustrated doing all the work forever? I hear you, "yeah, well, what about MY needs"......<P>I am learning, even though he hasn't graduated. FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY I think I am beginning to understand how I CAN CHANGE, to help my marriage, and to deal WITH my husband's avoidant behavior.... FINALLY, I am truly realizing that the only thing I can change is my self, not him, but I can STILL learn, even though I am plan A'ing.<P>Something that really hit me, was on page 6 of the Boundary thread on the Women's Bible Study Forum..... Withdrawal/Avoidant behavior is in there. <P>Also, (I don't remember where it is exactly in that thread) but, there is a response to someone who said something very similar to what you and I always say - and that is about how our husbands want "just the facts, don't attach your feelings or opinions", and that leaves us feeling VERY unloved after being told that.<P>I think this is "turning point month" for many of us, I see FHL posting frequently, Sweetpea, and I just think that this is the time for us to turn a corner and GROW/HEAL. Let me know what you thought of these comments and the boundary thread.<P>TNT

TNT, highly perceptive as always.<P>Yes, I am do feel like I am at a turning point. I am even questioning if I am having a MLC...except it is not a crisis and I do not have one problem with getting older. <P>But I do see the need to recreate myself.<P>Call me Madonna <P>I also know all I can change is myself, I just want to know I am changing in the direction that will benefit my marriage and encourage growth, rather than discourage it.<P>Sure I hope I could get someone to tell me how to drill a clue into my H's head, but I know all I have to work with is what I put into it.<P>I can not control any outcome. So many fine lines...and I am trying to navigate and not just get stuck in the weeds.<P>Actually my marriage is better on the surface when I have no opinion or feelings, but since my H is really so mild mannered, he launches no offense. I would kind of describe it as a little chipmunk sniffing the air, detecting an emotion in it and scurying for cover. Not that my H is timid...just is a master at deflection.<P>

Sweetpea,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>it has been a long ol' haul to get to where we are now, and I fear that we are stuck. I don't believe my H is "in love" with me, and I'm doubting if he ever will be again<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>I just have a problem with the idea that I should just continue to meet his needs (one of which seems to be NEVER making my own needs known ) without expecting some of my own to be met. In my mind, if he is really in love with me, he should be eager and more than willing to meet my needs. I am more than eager and willing to meet his needs, but I keep thinking this: If he is not in love with me, how can HE truly be happy? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><sigh>We are in the same place. Don't have anything to offer except commiseration. <P><P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23