My H is not talking. I have no idea what is going on in his head. He is not acting himself at all - in fact a complete opposite. He shut everyone out around Oct/Nov, got involved in an EA around Apr/May, I found out end of June. It is supposed to be over. Friday I found out she had left her H and moved into the area 4-6 weeks ago when my H left us to move in with her.<P>The only thing he says is he does not love me, he is tired of everything, nothing matters, he got himself into this he will get himself out, he will live with his mistakes. He talks in circles. Contradicts himself in the same sentence as well as daily. He has been more emotional since he left then he was before he left. <P>Friday night I was looking at someone who was literally being torn in half and he didn't know which way to go. He never used her as a defense against me. He never said anything about their relationship. All he said was he had no where else to go and he would live with his mistakes.<P>What he has done makes no sense to me. He has me confused and second guessing myself.<BR>I have given him his freedom. I know there is nothing I can do right now except let him go and go on with my life and show him that I can and will make it. He was all but a saint prior to oct. He was a great H, father, always bent over backwards to help people, looked up to by eveyone, this whole thing has people saying What????<P>I had gone into plan a on discovery. It was working, I was seeing him soften, he was starting to respond, I was seeing positive steps, and then friday he left. I am now a full 2 months since d-day. <P>Can any of you betrayers out there help me understand what is going on in his head? Can anyone tell me where we are going from here?<BR>I love him, I have given him his freedom, I have backed off, I am improving myself and doing things to improve the house. I have not called or checked up on him. I have not gone by the fire companies and I have not gone by the apartment. What else can I do?

Dear I Believe,<P>I could have written your post, you are married to my H!<P>I'm not a betrayer, but one of the betrayed.<P>All I can tell you is continue to work on yourself and get yourself use to filtering everything he says to you, otherwise you'll end up in the Loonie Bin, guaranteed.<P>By filtering I mean this ......<BR> <BR>Husband: "You never cared about me or what was important to me"<P>Translation: I'm feeling guilty for what I'm doing and need justification.<P><BR>Husband: "I love you but I'm not in love with you"<P>Translation: I am addicted to OW and don't know what the h$ll I'm doing but I still love you and don't want to loose you.<P><BR>Husband: "Our 20 year marriage has been a prison, I hate being married and always have, you know I've always been a loaner"<P>Translation: I'm being very selfish and don't want to remember being happy, I need more justification to outweigh my guilt for doing this. I'll make things up!<P><BR>You get my drift, I Believe? I had to put on my Infidelity Filter every time I talk to my H, otherwise I'd kill myself from all the blame and untruths. I still have a really hard time with it, hence my latest posts.<P>My favorite and best response to my H thru this whole thing has been one of the three:<P>I understand.<BR>I see.<BR>Okay.<P>Those responses were the best I could do, because most of what he was saying was complete garbage.<P>I'm sorry you're going thru this. I hope I've helped a little.<P>Please take care of yourself.<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 10, 2000).]

Hi I Believe:<P>I not a betrayer either, but it really doesn't take one to understand this. Everyone of our H has been there...its the "mouth of the fog" speaking through your H.<P>It's hard to stop the freight train (affair...EA....)once it gets started....you just have to let it coast to a stop by itself. <P>But just because your Plan A didn't derail the train doesn't mean it wasn't effective...the just wasn't enough time to turn things around. <P>Your H sounds very confused...and that is a good thing for you...it means that he is not sure about what he's doing. <P>You are right in letting him try to solve it on his own...continuing to Plan A, of course.<BR>This is one case in which I think you have laid good groundwork for him to resolve it and be bad at home before long.<P>Jo:<P>The filtered interpretaions were wonderful. Now I understand completely...before I was in a "fog." How true! How true!<P>Buffy<BR>

I am a betrayer.<P>I could be your husband!! (kidding) this is how i felt for so long.<P>It is truley like you are in a fog. You truely feel really dead inside. At this point.. he suffers with withdrawal.. even from you. He probably cannot really deceide if he has to go to the restroom or not.. it is that bad.<P>Having an affair does such awful things to you. It is almost like it is an evil twin or something.. like someone stole your mind and body. It is lke the slats have been kicked out from underneath you as a good decent human being. All for what? The renewal of past feelings. <P>Unfortunelty, he probably has been feeling this way for a long time. It seems for me that when I was in contact with OM, even if it was just phone calls.. my atttitude towards my husband was awful. I was able to live two lives for a while but after a while i couldn't keep up with what lies i had told last. THis brought such depression and resentment at my husband(not that it was HIS fault). <P>the guilt comes in two ways. ONe way is guilt because you have hurt your spouse..(but yet you almost do not care, but yet you do) and the guilt of being involved with OP.<P>my best advice is to Plan A it all you can. He will come out of this. Yes he is truely torn into two complete different people.<P>does this help you any? I will get back to you in a post later.. there are a lot of distractin here right now..<P>Mercy

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Friday night I was looking at someone who was literally being torn in half and he didn't know which way to go. He never used her as a defense against me. He never said anything about their relationship. All he said was he had no where else to go and he would live with his mistakes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't agree exactly.<P>This doesn't sound like "I can't wait to go live with OW, she's my soulmate, she's great...<P>I only have what you wrote, but it sounds like he doesn't want to go. He made his mistakes, has nowhere else to go???<P>You aren't pushing him out, right?<P>Then it may be something my h went through.<P>He already had seen there was no real future with OW. He still planned to move out.<P>He didn't see HOPE that this could be healed and result in an even better marriage (which we have today). He felt guilty, that we didn't need him...<P>Can you ask him why he feels he has to go???<P>Would he be willing to find there is hope by reading Surviving an Affair?<BR>

I am the betrayed also, but wanted to chime in with support.<P>My H is in a similar state... He has had a complete personality change. Also a great H, father and someone that people respected.<P>I just got the admission of PA. He has never said "i don't love you" or anything at all that makes sense. He also contradicts himself at every turn. Early on he would tell me he was lying and didn't know why. He tells me he doesn't know why he is doing what he is doing.<P>He did, in the beginning tell me lots of really stupid reasons. (I liked a tree in our yard and he didn't) He told me he was pretending for the whole marraige. Then that was upgraded to his feelings have been for the past two years, he has been under a lot of stress at work and he never told me.<P>But he would never talk about the OP. It was like it was sacred or something and she was the messiah.<P>At one point he told the marraige counselor that everything I said bugged him. Yet we wnet out to dinner after that meeting and had a great conversation.<P>He has also told me he's "changed" but won't say into what.<P>He has told someone at work that he is just not happy and needed to change everything in his life. He (with OP filling his head) is into some antimaterialism thing.<P>I probably don't have great advice since we seem to be heading for D, but I wanted to let you know you are not insane. That others (me) are experiencing the same thing.<P>It is the most awful experience to watch someone you love suffer so.

I am more confused than ever now. I am so tired of being lied to. I have found out things I can not beieve he has done and then people I thought I could trust have been lying to me also. <P>He will not/can not tell me why he has to go. He can just walk away from her and I will take him back to rebuild our marriage. But for some reason he can not. He has lied to everybody and has been for months. <P>His friends are now lying to me as well. I have found out this has been going on much longer than I was lead to believe. If so why did it take so long for him to leave, and even so he left reluctantly.<P>How far does he have to go before he hits the wall? I love him, I have been through h**l this past week and it makes no difference in how I feel. I know what I had. I can not walk away from 22 years. How can these people who say they are his friends condone what he is doing while his real family is fighting to hang on.<P>He will not talk, he will not go to counseling, he will not read any books. He does not want fixed. He has not professed his love for this person to anyone. <P>He changed his address effective this past friday. He has now taken his 4-wheeler and the trailer. He has not come into the house since monday a week ago. He is spending money like I feared. I have been told he cashed in a weeks vacation and took out a loan through the company. This occured about the time he said he got himself into this he will get himself out. The lies are building up. <P>I have been told he is not doing his job and the s**t is going to hit the fan soon because people are tired of it and mistakes are happening. Now I am afraid he is going to lose his job. If that happens I will lose the house. <P>Betrayers - how far is he going to take this before he wakes up? Is he going to wake up? Will I be able to save him and our marriage? Where do we go from here?<BR>

Hi, I've been away and just opened up the MB Boards and read your post. I too was hoping for more insight from Betrayers but the posts by the Betrayed were helpful.<P>I loved Resilient's translations:<P>Husband: "You never cared about me or what was important to me."<P>[translation] "I'm feeling guilty about what I'm doing and I need justification."<P>Husband: "I love you but I'm not in love with you." [Close; my H said "I love you but not the way you want me to love you" and "I'm not in love with you. The passion is gone. I lied to myself for years and I just stopped lying to myself" <P>My translation, not Resilient's: "I'm addicted to the OW, but I want to maintain that what I feel for her is just a good friendship"<P>The filtering is necessary and I love when someone here can get things into succinct phrases. <P>About his spending: Have you seen a lawyer about protecting your half of the marital assets? Would filing a legal separation protect you? Are both your names on the deed? Can he borrow against the house without your signature? I know the emotional damage is knocking the wind out of you, but don't forget about practicalities. If you're broke, is there a Legal Aid or Women's Clinic office that you can visit? <P>[This message has been edited by Bellevue (edited August 14, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Bellevue (edited August 14, 2000).]

Seems as if it's more than just withdrawal & getting into depression. How old is he? Could it be a mid-life crisis?<BR>I asked my H last night if he's forgiven himself yet & he said no. I think that's an important obstacle for the WS to overcome. It's not just the BS that have to forgive but the WS need to forgive themselves as well. Otherwise they'll think they don't deserve you, the family, the home, etc. & so won't fight.<BR>Pick up Jim Conway "Men in Mid-life" (or something like that) & see if you recognize any of the signs.

It has to be mid life crisis. He is the exact opposite of the person he really is. He does not care about anything. He is alienating friends and family. We had a great 4 day anniversary weekend last August and November he is getting involved with this person. I spoke to her husband - he has known since around christmas. I only found out 2 months ago. She has been appearenatly pushing him along. Nothing makes sense. He does not tell anyone how he feels about her and he leaves relunctantly. He has been spending money we do not have to set her up in an apartment but did not leave our house for 4-6 weeks after that.<P>Yes I had already contacted a lawyer before I was further enlightened and now I am following her advice. I filed for child support also. I do not want a divorce, I do not want to lose my H completely - but he is way out there. <P>I have not contacted him since he left. I have not gone back there at all - they both now work 2nd jobs at the same pizza joint. I let him initiate what he wants to talk about. I know he investigated one day last week and wanted to know how I got the lawn mowed. Of course he asked everyone but me.<P>

I believe, <BR>Yes I too have been where you are now. Except out marriage is now at 29 years...<BR>My H started this almost 18 months ago.<BR>You have described my H....<BR>I too had to file for a Divorce to protect my assets...Not want I wanted to do.<BR>Well I filed in Dec. and in June the divorce is now on hold....<BR>Because I allowed my H affair to die a slow death and wait for that to happen...I know I couldn't do anything that would change his mind until he was really ready to see his affair for what it really is" just an affair", something that made him feel good about himself (temporairly)..<BR>Practice what is on here(MB principals), read everything you can, write hear to vent or get ideas...THIS will help YOU, <BR>Right now he is in that Dr. Jeckel Mr. Hide mode , but once the affair is over it will get better, not perfect but then your love deposits will be noticed...<BR>Mid_life crisis? Yep sounds like it to me....<BR>Also read Sally Conways "Your Husbands Mid-Life Crisis".<BR>Hang on come here for support...We will be here for YOU...<BR>Tyra

I am the betrayer.<P>I had one 1 night affair that didn't satisfy what I was looking for, so I turned to the internet. I thought it was safe and harmless and didn't realize that it was hurting her until she told me that she didn't love me. I was using it as a substitute for her.<P>I have completely separated myself from the problem activities, do not miss them, nor have any desire to return to them.<P>Now I am working to rebuild her trust in me and find a way to help her fall back in love with me. It was easy for me to give it up because I love her and don'tt want to lose her. <P>I'm not sure he knows what he wants right now, just like my wife. I am learning to dislike that 4 letter word, TIME but right now it is what she needs. I have vowed to wait as long as it takes, and I know that can be hard, but it's the only thing that I think will work.<P>Good luck. This is a great forum. The support I have gotten here as really helped with my depression. It seems like no matter what I'm thinking or going through, someone here has been there and done that.

I am having a hard time today after all I found out last night. I have a so few people on my side. Most are saying get out now. I can not do it. This is not the man I married. I can not judge or condemn this person because his body is inhabited by an imposter.<P>He seems to be spiraling out of control. I don't think he knows one lie from the next at this point.<P>Well I just got a phone call from him. He wants me to bring his prescription refill papers home for him to call in. I told him I could call it in for him. He said how was he going to pay for it. I told him it comes right out of the checking account. He said no he will call it in. I asked if he was going to change his insurance and he said he would have to. I told him he can stay on my plan because I was paying for it anyway and it was a better plan. He said he would think about it and asked that I bring the papers home anyway. He said there was no word on the boat and asked if any titles had come yet. I kept low key and I could hear the pain in his voice. <P>I was shaking the whole time and it took me a few minutes to calm down. What do I do? How do I handle tonight - I am afraid there might be a confrontation about our D when I get home. I do not want to fight him, I want him to know that I am here for him. Do I just ignore the lies. He called me. I have not contacted him at all as much as it kills me not to. All contact has been done by him, even if it is when picking up/dropping off D.

Hang in there. You are doing great - under exceptionally difficult circumstances. The same thing happened to me, and all the advice I got from friends and family - even his family, was to dump him. You need to give him time, and ride this out, without alienating him, driving him emotionally closer to the OW. Whats the point of confrontation about his lies at this point? Keep telling him you love him, that you understand what he is going through. Right now he is so down on himself that no one can really help him, you can only support him when he turns to you. My husband decided to move out after seeing how much pain I was in - said "You (me) don't deserve this - let me go and try to work this out in my head." He hated himself for hurting me, for loving the OW, for getting himself into this mess to begin with. I really feel that it turned around when I said he was free to go, and quit pulling on him. When he started looking at me as a sympathetic friend who loved him and felt his pain, no matter how painful to me. When I finally said to myself, "What do I have to lose at this point?" Keep plan Aing him when you hear from him. You are doing everything right, and this is really the best you can do as you wait it out. There are many of us who have been through this and feel your pain. Try to talk to someone who can support you and not fuel the anger you may feel against him. Keep reading these posts, keep a journal. Bide your time. Remember, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain at this point. Sincere best wishes. <p>[This message has been edited by Everhopeful (edited August 14, 2000).]

That is how I feel. What do I have to lose? He is already out of the house. I 've told him I would take him back. I will just keep cool and let him bring up the topics. I will continue in Plan A with or without him.<BR>He does not seem any happier where he is now. I will just try to wait it out and block those negative people (my mother)out. I can not just give up - I love him - in spite of the h**l I have been through. There are alot of people who do not understand, I was one of them.

That is how I feel. What do I have to lose? He is already out of the house. I 've told him I would take him back. I will just keep cool and let him bring up the topics. I will continue in Plan A with or without him.<BR>He does not seem any happier where he is now. I will just try to wait it out and block those negative people (my mother)out. I can not just give up - I love him - in spite of the h**l I have been through. There are alot of people who do not understand, I was one of them.

Your H is conflicted. I too was married to this same personality. We separated many times, the last 2 times, his affair was over, but he didn't think our marriage would heal. He felt he didn't "deserve" his family back.<P>He had to hit bottom. He had lost me. Our 14 year old despised him. Even the good time friends disappeared. And this just isn't a state of being you can force. You sound like you are doing the right thing. Plan A, time, letting go. After awhile he can't blame anything on you because...you aren't there or you aren't rocking his boat.<P>If you want your marriage, find support for that. You know you'll find it here. I also found a wonderful Christian counselor--been seeing him with and without my H for 1 1/2 year (my doesn't time fly). The counselor was the first person my H contacted when he had reached the end--and H saw the C on his own for awhile. If you have a church home, pastors have seen and heard most everything. I also found a prayer partner that I could call night or day. I swear there were times she felt more strongly about my marriage than I did .<P>I second the recommendation of YOUR HUSBAND'S MIDLIFE CRISIS, I found that book before MB and have read it half a dozen times.<P>My advice for tonight would be not to bring up his coming home or "hot" issues. He knows you want him back. With Plan A you want him to feel safe with you and not under attack. If you need to discuss finances or your daughter, do so, but bringing up the fact he's lying his head off really won't do you any good at this point. Tell him you love him, if it feels comfortable. Say goodbye calmly when it is time. Lead with your head and cry later.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

So much of your H's actions mirror my W's but the one thing she never said (yet) is the marriage was a mistake.<BR>The lying and the deceit were astonishing. For this woman who was heavily involved in church to do this... . The one thing you mentioned, "who IS this person??" has to be the most universal thought we have in common. <P>Also, your family could be mine. The friends told me the same as what they told you, but some encouraged me to NOT give up. Sometimes, in my periods of frustration, it seems that their lack of condemnation for her behavior may be interpreted as condoning it ! (IMMHOP) <BR>That was before I found MB and made alot of mistakes.<P>At least he is making contact.<P>RRunRR<P>------------------<BR>Almost anything can be undone or forgiven.<p>[This message has been edited by rrunrr (edited August 14, 2000).]

Ditto to what rrunrr said. What you both are describing was also my W to the letter. <P>We are now in recovery because of my diligent plan A'ing and then finally threatening with plan B. That really woke her up and she had to make a choice. <P>The choice, however, was not made without one very serious setback where she left for a weekend with OM and came back convinced she needed a D. I stuck to the plan and continued showing her that I loved her and that she was not the person I married and not the person that I loved. If that is what she wanted to be then she should go away with OM because that is not what I wanted in life. This really jarred her and she started coming out of the fog.<P>Trust me, though, this is not done without lots of pain and hurt on your part. It really hurts to watch them go through this, but in the little over month since D day things have changed drastically and I am starting to see the woman that I loved. I believe she is finally coming back. Not 100% yet, but will get there.<P>Also, I don't know if you mentioned it or not, but Anti D's really help. My W and I are both on them and call them our 'happy pills' :-)<P>Good luck. I whole heartedly agree to follow what is on this site. I wish I would have known before what I know now. Our relationship is already healthier than it was for a couple of years before the A and I am so sad for the lost time.<P>The WS doesn't know what to do with plan A. They can't fight it because there is nothing to fight except their own conscience. My W now tells me that without the changes that I have made she wouldn't be here right now. <P>Before D day she was so deceitful even when I was accusing her of the A. <P>I am not kidding when I say that I told her pre D-day that I knew she was going to continue her downward spiral that would not stop until she hit rock bottom. When she did I would be there to help her. And then I gave her a kiss on the forehead. You can't imagine the 'lack of response' because they(WS) simply can't deal with honesty, true love, and commitment. They can't deal with everything they are not at this time.<P>It really works.<P>Good luck and our prayers are with you....<P>Reborn<P><BR>

He came over to drop of D and got out of his vehicle, I was getting the mail, he followed me into the house talking normally. He got some grocery bags and started empting his drawers. I told him that I knew alot now, I knew about the money and where it went, I knew that I 've been lied to for a long time and not just by him, I spoke calmly and did not point fingers or place blame anywhere. I just told him I knew a lot more than he thought I did and that it still made no difference about how I felt and all he said was he was not coming back. I told him that the money was still not in the account and he said he deposited it and would call the bank about it. He did not look or act happy - something happened sunday because he sounded upset/mad when he called sunday night and when he came to work monday am I 've been told he was in a daze. Yesterday when he called me I could hear the pain in his voice and last night I could see it. He took all the clothes in his dresser and out of his side of the closet.<P>D is mad at him and upset - she was sitting at the kitchen counter watching him do this as he tried to joke with her as he went by. He is spending time and money on OW son and ignoring his own D that was his pride and joy. He is not making the effort to spend time with her and she is trying to avoid spending time with him.<P>She makes less than half that he does or I do for that matter. They both have left loving spouses, homes, all they have worked for (she had a pool), almost out of debt to have nothing. She is not getting anything from her H, he buys the S everything he needs, they want to bribe him with things like a computer and a 4-wheeler, she left with no money, they both have 89 vehicles, working 2 jobs, he is going to be paying child support and some type of legal arrangement will be made for the bills we owe and the house payment. H has done nothing or bought anything for D. Has not even taken her to practice - he borrowed someone's truck and took OW to pick up our boat instead of making sure D got to barrel practice that night. How do they think they are going to do this? It is all fun and games from what I have heard. Neither one is doing their job and most of his friends at work have dropped him and can't stand her. Two people had been against this and trying to talk him out of this and a month ago they decided it was okay. These are people we went on vacation with several times. The one guy has been lying to me for the past month, we went on annivesary week/weekend getaways together and the other one we went to florida twice with and sold our old boat to and went boating with them. Now I find out the 2 times they went boating I was lied to about also. <P>He has lied to me so much he does not know what is true and what lie he told me when. It does not change the fact that I love him and it hurts to see him self destruct like this. I know he is going to crash it is just a matter of when. Will I still be waiting - probably for some time because I have no desire for anyone else and it will take me a long time to get over him. Will I be able to pick up the pieces? Only God knows that. I am praying and reading the bible. I am picking up the pieces now and trying to move on and take care of myself and my D. Fortunately I have friends and family that are helping me. <P>She has been pushing him along on this, I know that, and now I 've been told he isn't allowed to do things he did before. He is not at the fire hall every day because he is only allowed 2 nights. He has not been over to help one of his friends like he was - he lives in our development and they always help each other. That is not going to last long - he does what he wants to - I never told him he couldn't go - I always backed him on that stuff. When he had something going on I'd/We'd be doing something else and then we had our nights/days together. <P>I am sorry, I am so confused on why/how this happened. I can't concentrate. I have run things over and over and see nothing to have caused this. I was not given a chance. Her H knew back around christmas. I've been kept in the dark so well they have a huge head start on me. Eveything I did when I did not know was wrong. I've only had 2 1/2 months to do anything. Is that enough? Did I Plan A enough before he left to make a difference? I am still in PLan A. We had a good marriage all the way up until the month this started - last Oct/Nov. It only got serious in the past 4 months. She had the stronger feelings from the start and he only really started to cave in recently. I know I am babbling here. Just thoughts that are running through my head. Anyone with experience (good or bad, but good preferably)please tell me where we go from here.