The OW in my situation is very overweight, unattractive, and her personality sucks. H says he doesn't know why he did it, (had A with her) because he never found her attractive, never felt any kind of feelings for her, and didn't even like her. He just helped her out from time to time because he felt sorry for her. My question is, how can a man have sex several times with a woman he says he wasn't attracted to in any way? Could any of you see this happening in your situation? Can any of you give me some insight into this, it is driving me crazy. I couldn't be with someone I was not attracted to, how could he do it? Erections don't just happen out of pity, I just don't understand the whole thing. Help me out here, please.

Ktgirl, my dear,<P>She met one or more of his most important emotional needs that you were'nt meeting, not meeting well, or were not even aware of. Period.<P>Some male betrayer's aren't even sure what hit 'em. Even after recovery but Dr. Harley states this sad fact very plainly.<P>I guess erections don't happen out of pity, they happen out of met EN's. There is awesome power in a met EN. Erections just naturally spring up all around them! <P>This homely OW of yours must have met your H's need in spades for it to override his revulsion. Don't for a minute take it personally as a reflection of your desirability. Did you read the post about all those beautiful celebrities that were two timed by their spouses? <P>Also replied cause I lost your birthdate with this tech problem. Wanted to give you your compatability profile if you still want it. <P>Mahalo,<P>L

Leilana,<BR> Thank you. My h's bday is 5-5-76, mine is 8-11-61. What happened with the technical problem? I must have missed that, it was working fine the last time I was on. He said they would talk a lot, about their problems. I would have loved to talk to him at that time, did everything I could to try and get him to talk to me. I knew he was upset with me, he just wouldn't say why. He'd just tell me whatever was on his mind was his problem, and leave it at that. I knew better, but he got angry when I pressed further. So he's supposed to love me, but didn't feel comfortable expressing his needs to me so I could meet them, but he can open his heart to megab***h whom he didn't even like? Seems so illogical to me. Are all men that way? BTW, how are things going at your end? Any more hickeyfests planned? LOL

kt,<P>My H and OW used to talk alot, too. My H used to listen to her and try to draw her out conversationally. That met her EN but what she used to SAY to my H (major adoration and admiration type statements) met his EN to the hilt. <P>Be back in a minute.

Leilana,<BR> Okay, I'll be waiting!!!

Not only can I see this happening in my situation...It did, the OW, not only is my niece, but she is also very, very overwieght and was hit with the ugly stick a couple of times..not a attractive girl at all, she also has several emotional, psychotic, depression problems as well. A real package.My Husband also told me he wasn't, isn't attracted to her at all..But he did say she told him everything he wanted and needed to hear..it's true looks arent everything...Good Luck to you...hang in there..Lisa Lou

Sorry, had to go make a love unit "deposit". My H came home early. <P>Ox with Dragon:<P>Be prepared for plenty of late-nite squabbles in an Ox/Dragon combo. Both believe they are righter than right. The Dragon dictates his will over the opinionated Ox and the Bull bullies back.<P>The Ox has little patience with vanity. The Ox's indifferences to the Dragon's fiery appearance is a perpetual disappointment to the Dragon's ego. The glamorous, extravagant Dragon loves to spend money but, with the Ox counting pennies, feels hampered and ill-at-ease.<P>The Dragon's wandering eye unsettles the faithful Ox.<P>With so much conflict, how can this duo reconcile? Their love of home and family could save them from total despair. Both enjoy sex, altho the Ox's routine technicques may bore the Dragon (quick, download the KamaSutra!! ), whose sentimental nature yearns for puff clouds of pink cotton candy to enhance lovemaking.<P>(Sometimes I just don't understand the way this astrologist writes!)<P>Also, the methodical Ox expects a regular living schedule. The Dragon, however, favors a more erratic time code, exorbitant stormy sex for a week followed by peace and quiet for three. <P>Sounds like you got your work cut out for you, ktgirl! But I know you can do it! Take this all with a grain of salt a dash of humor and a large dose of determination. Know your Dragon! Then brush up on your dragonology! I would suggest getting a copy of Suzanne White's astrology books--I have two different ones. Dragons are dreamboat sexy but volatile and complicated--very hard type to be married to! You're a very lucky unlucky girl!!<P>Aloha, <P>Leilana

Lisa Lou,<BR> Oh My God, are you from Missouri? It sounds like your H and my H were with the same person!!!!! All kidding aside, I guess I have to admit it's true. I am so surprised however, that none of the guys on the board have answered this one yet. Others have posted for betrayers, and they came out of the woodwork! I ask one simple little question of them, and they seem to by ignoring it. I wonder why?

Leilana!<BR> OH MY GOD!!!!! That is us almost exactly!!!!!! Funny you should mention Kama Sutra, I've spent a little time online there, lately as a matter of fact!!!! I nearly died when I read that. We have been trying Tantric Sex lately, well, you know, just to keep the homes fires burning!!!! I have to admit, I like it a lot. I dunno, I guess because of the age difference, I always try to keep experimenting in that area to keep him interested, or wondering maybe what he'll miss if he loses me! The living schedule and the erratic time code is a definite YES!!! It's always drove me around the bend, the way he just floats around in his own little universe, when I'm standing at home, tapping my foot, trying to remember where I stashed my rolling pin!!!! We'd make plans for a certain time, but he'd always come dragging in late with a "Sorry baby, but..." "Stormy sex for a week, followed by peace and quiet for three." Yes Yes Yes!!!!!! During the storm, I used to tease him and say that I was gonna hang a scoreboard above the bed and hit a button so he could look up at the board and tell how many Big O's he brought about!! He always used to ask, and if he didn't like my answer, well then it was back to work time. Boy do I know it, about having my work cut out for me. And yes, I watch the pennies, while he loves to blow the dollars. I want to ask this woman if she hid a video camera in our house. I feel like i just got off "the Real World"!!!! Thanks a lot Leilana. You are the greatest!!!!

My first husband did this. It was always the most scummy, overweight, hideous women he could find. Women that would never turn a guy's head. <P>Why? Because he was horribly insecure. He slept with anybody and everybody who came on to him. Period. It fed his ego. It made him feel attractive and like a man. His self esteem was so low that the smile from any whore was enough to make him betray his home, his wife, his family.<P>One of the girls he slept with I met in church. When I brought her home, he said to me, "Where did you find THAT? She is the ugliest girl I have ever seen!" It wasn't enough to stop him from sleeping with her. His being friends with her husband wasn't enough to stop him either.<P>Another girl he met a few days prior to his fling. She was a friend of a friend. They went out for beer on our anniversary and he ended up having sex with her in the hotel hallway. He'd only known her a few minutes! This was during our anniversary party!<P>So, yeah. Maybe these women *are* meeting some need that we aren't, but when the need is this one, I think the blame still lies with the betrayer. Self worth has to come from inside. When you're that low down, it's pathetic.<P>By the way, 13 years have passed since then and that winner is still the same.

Oh God Popeye,<BR> That sucks. This thing better not happen more than once with us, if it does, I'm out of the door next time, for good. Now that I think about it, that does seem like it could be true about H. He's a very handsome man, though, sexy beyond belief, and I tell him this every chance I get. He just doesn't think he is handsome. Self image could be out of whack here. Thanks for the insight.

I'm not a betrayer, but I am a male, and I can tell you why men sleep with women that we have no feelings for or don't necessarily find attractive. It may be crude, crass, awful, etc..., but the bottom line is that a lot of men will have sex with just about any woman that serves it up to him on a silver platter. Sorry Leilana, it's not <B>always</B> about unmet emotional needs, sometimes it is strictly about the <B>"little head" leading the "big head"</B> around.<P>From what you have wrote, it sounds like your husband helped her out when she needed it, and because of that she developed feelings for him and probably came on to him. He probably figured he would never get caught, so what the heck. <P>I think that sometimes, especially when it comes to men and sex, that things get a little over analyzed, too much psychology going on, when it is sometimes a matter of being presented with an opportunity and that opportunity is taken advantage of because the idea of getting caught is not thought of, it is simply a matter of the "little head" doing the thinking.

Some men are just addicted to the sex. and the bigger the boost to his ego the better. If the OW was ugly, and your H was a fox, well she would be flattered too and be very open to the idea too; married or not. Sorry.

FA,<BR> Thanks for the input. Why would a man who had never cheated in over 8 years just suddently decide to follow his "little head" into something that could end his marriage? He'd never done it before. And he was getting plenty of sex with me, so I don't understand the sudden need. This may be one of those things I will never truly find the answer for. I am just about accepting the fact that for some crazy reason she met some EN's that I wasn't at the time. She was the aggressor. She's still the aggressor, though he has cut off all contact with her. Don't take this wrong, but God sometimes you guys just drive me nuts. You are so freakin complicated, and just when I think I have you all figured out, you change. I think each man should come with his own "Owner's manual" LOL.

Burnedspouse,<BR> Gosh. It's really a pain to think of it that way. He is a fox, definitely, but he's never done this before. He's a whole mass of contradictions. He doesn't think he's good looking at all, and when it came to sex, he always got plenty at home, so I just can't figure what went wrong there. He probably just fell into this thing without thinking.

YOO HOO Leilana!,<BR> Are we busy making more deposits in the love bank? Hickeyfest progressing as we speak? Hope you're having fun, and enjoy!!! Just hadn't seen you answer my post back to you so I thought I'd leave you a message. Talk to ya later, after the hickeyfest, that is, if you have the strength left to type when all is done.

<BR>Although I think FA is right that this is over analyzed (sometimes it is just getting what is offered and expecting not to get caught), I do think that a some OWs (pardon this generalization to some of the ladies that have been the betrayers on this board) are not that attractive so they tend to use more basic methods to attract men then the average fairly attractive woman needs to use to attract men.<P>Hence the flattery, the buttering up and the overt sexual behavior that we see so often in these OW. They use what works. If you have a H whose main EN is admiration, then an OW who has learned to tune in to the needs of men through trial and error (and she's had a lot of experience at trial and error) will pick up on that and that will be what she uses.<P>Women are use to this behavior from guys and have learned to go with the flow and not take it seriously or get caught up in it.<BR>Men are not as use to pursuit and apparently think of every offer as a missed opportunity. Some will fall to temptation, some won't. Why and who, I don't know.<P>At some level we know what our H's ENs are but we've just gotten use to them and unless they have specifically asked us about fulfilling those needs, a lot of EN go unmet until OW arrives to meet them. I'm sure a lot of wives would be more then willing to fulfill those needs if they were just articulated to her. But men are strong and silent and expect us to know what they need.<BR>Remember we are not desperate, we have a H, we're not on the make for someone elses. If you are missing something, tell us.<P>Buffy<BR>

Leilana,<BR>I am Ktgirl's mother in law wanted to know if you would do a profile for me and my H.<BR>January 30,1958 (mine)<BR>June 11,1945 (H)<BR>I would appreciated it.<BR>Maybell

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by maybell:<BR><B>Leilana,<BR>I am Ktgirl's mother in law wanted to know if you would do a profile for me and my H.<BR>January 30,1958 (mine)<BR>June 11,1945 (H)<BR>I would appreciated it.<BR>Maybell</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yow! Before I answer--may I ask, is this a first or second marriage for either of you?

Leilana,<BR> I believe it is the second marriage for him, and third for her. I don't know if she's seen this yet, so I thought I'd answer for her. Again, thanks a lot!!!