...<p>[This message has been edited by Beerman2 (edited September 13, 2000).]

Steve,<P>I have been thinking about you since the thread about the assumed paternity issue. I am going to say somethings that aren't in line with the MB forum which is to encourage people to rebuild their marriage. I apologize if I offend you or anyone else.<P>First, let me review the information I have about this.<P>1) She was married when you two met and had an affair with you.<P>2) She divorced her H and married you.<P>3) She then has an affair while married to you.<P>4) She gets pregnant with OM child while separated from you.<P>5) She is telling you she wants a divorce.<P>Have I got it pretty well sorted out. Steve, I am a scientist and as such I am constantly looking at data and then developing relationships between various variables, to do one thing: make a prediction. If you can consistently make good predictions about what some aspect of nature is going to do, then you can claim you have some understanding of how nature is working. You W's trend is pretty compelling, in allowing one to make a prediction. Isn't it?<P>In your W I see a strong trend. She becomes infacuated with someone and marries them, she becomes infacuated with another person and leaves the H. I predict this trend is going to continue until something changes.<P>As you state, she has shown no willingness to work on the marriage, learn anything, or learn how to deal with her guilt. In fact it seems her way of handling the guilt is to run. Now, it seems to me the OM, sees this trend also. That is why he offered to step aside and let you adopt his child. It gets him off the hook financially, it may save his marriage, and he knows what he is getting into with your W. She will do the same to him.<P>So here is where I get very unMB. I think you should honor her request and divorce her. Do your best to get custody of your S and hopefully full custody. Let her have OM's child and see what really happens with OM. You will be in contact with your W because of your S,but you will have considerably more financial resources to take care of him if you are not paying for OM's child.<P>Now, here is where I get a little sneaky. I think if you divorce her, it will releave her guilt. You will be out from under the financial situation with OM's child. She may marry the OM, but probably won't, but if she does it won't last long. <P>Now maybe with all of this your W will grow up and learn something about what it means to be married. If she does, you will have ample opportunity to step back into this picture with Plan A. You see she is the mother of your S, Plan A her even if you divorce her.<P>She is trying to drive you away because of her guilt. THat is why she is saying what she is saying about OM being in the delivery room and see him all of the time it may well be true, but she is trying to drive you away.<P>Now I know you don't want to seem like the bad guy here, but I think you have a better chance of eventually being happily married if you divorce W. If you two get together again, the air will be cleared, it will be because she wants to and not needs to, and finally she will have grown. <P>I predict OM/MM is not going to treat her well once all of this comes down.<P>So, Steve, I have violated the very spirit of this board, but I cannot lie to you about what I feel in this case. Plan A, but see your lawyer this week and determine what can be done and when it must be done. And think about what I have said. Your W needs to grow up and learn somethings before you can have a good marriage with her.<P>Sorry if I have offended you. <P>God Bless,<P>JL

Steve:<P>I guess I really don't have much advice for you because I am exactly where you are at, and I feel miserable for it. But I can sympathize. Life is at a standstill here, too--no progression, no changes one way or the other. This is the hardest part.<P>I told my H the same thing--if he wants a divorce, he'll be the one to file. <P>He claims he loves me and he will even if we split up, then he turns around and yells at me about how everything is my fault, that we are incompatible and life with me is a nightmare. Then he says "Call me anytime, tell me if you need anything, let me know if you have enough money. . ."<P>I told him to go on ahead with the Big D then, whatever he feels is best, but that I love him and want to work things out on the condition that he will go to counseling. <P>Counseling is a big no-go. Then he will actually have to face up to what he did and admit that he did wrong. We can't have that, now can we?<P>I left SAA, with many articles and clippings inside of it, on the nightstand back in our bedroom in Japan. No idication that he has picked it up and read it. In fact, has probably thrown it away so that it will not be laying next to his head while he sleeps at night.<P>He says he doesn't know how I could ever forget (I would get over it eventually if we went to counseling and it was sucessful)<P>However, as much as he rants about it, he has not made a move for divorce. He has not sent me a POA so that I can get my car registered in this state (tags expired.) He has not sent me paperwork so that I can get the kid registered for Kindrgarten. He has not moved out of our apartment in Japan.<P>So--I do't know. But I won't file the paperwork. If he wants to give up the marriage, then it will be his call.<P>And I don't exactly want to pester him about divorce, either. I did that once--telling him that if he wanted it, go for it. I didn't want to be separated. That's when he started having sex with OW.<P>I am in the same boat as you--stuck with someone who cannot decide (or forgive themselves.)<P>You know, I would hold on til after the baby is born, at least, if I were you. Being a woman, I know that there are a huge range of freaky emotions that one goes through in carrying a child--some of them are not positive ones. Dark depression, restlessness, fatigue, idignation at the smallest offense. Your wife is likely to say anything these days, right off the top of her head.<P>If the OM is not there when the baby is born? Or if he doesn't stick around? I know that this is more torment, waiting, but I think that you should stick around and see. You have come this far, loving her and wanting to reunite despite her bringing OM's baby into the world. I think that you are too good to be true--and I think that is what your wife is thinking, too. She knows what a wonderful man you are and is quite positive that she does not deserve you.<P>Wait just a bit longer and see what happens.

...<p>[This message has been edited by Beerman2 (edited September 13, 2000).]

Steve,<P>You know there is no need to punish her. She will take care of that herself. If you really decide to divorce, tell you love her and you are setting her free and hopefully somehow life will bring you two back together.<P>I think you will find that she will feel better, but you of course won't. As for the OM, well that won't last. You know it and I know it, actually so does she and OM.<P>But you know: "that the best revenge is a life well lived." Make the best decision you can and then live your life well. You just never know how things will work out.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Uh uh! No way!!<P>My .02<P>You're making it harder for her. Impossible even. Isn't that a GOOD thing?! Isn't this just a sign that what you are doing is working? <P>And why can't you be her coach in the delivery room?<P>Give me her birthdate and yours too--I want to check something out. It will take me a few days to respond.<P>You're doing good, Steve. You are awesome. She knows this and the guilt is making her crazy, that's all. It's a good thing! <P>Don't worry about the "I love you's" for now. That will come long after she can admit it to herself--don't rush it. It hurts tho, yeah?<p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited August 21, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beerman2:<BR>[B] Maybe I'm beating a dead horse here, but I refuse to be the one to file for divorce. If she wants a divorce, then she should be able to tell me that.<P>Any advise?<P>Steve<P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not long ago, I asked the question, "Should I offer a divorce?" The reason I entertained the thought was because of my husband's relentless all-nighters or late evenings coming home from work.<P>I was given the advice that if I didn't want the divorce, I shouldn't offer it. It's odd to read your W feels you're making it difficult for her. About 10 years ago, my husband said the same thing. The reason was--he said--he did not have a good reason to leave me. He was upset because he realized he couldn't "train me" (his own words). So he decided to search for someone he could train (the search continues).<P>I still don't know what else I'm suppose to do besides usual. If you don't want the divorce, you shouldn't give it to her. That wouldn't be true to how you really feel. If the OM is so crazy about the idea of them together it appears he would offer pay for it. <P>I hope she realizes he doesn't want to be with her as badly as she wants to be with him. Otherwise, she wouldn't hassle you about getting a divorce.<P><P>------------------<BR>Love hurts no one.

Hi Beerman2,<P>I read JL's post and started thinking. I think your W should file if she wants a divorce. <P>Beerman2 ... if you file you'll always question or wonder if you hadn't ... would things have worked out. Am I right? I know I would.<P>And in addition, I believe your W should take responsibility for this. She needs to grow up/mature right? Well this is a "lesson" in life, she needs to take the "class" herself and her "finals" are her having to file or not file. If she does this herself, she will learn something and that something is "taking responsibility for her actions and decisions and realizing there are consequences that come along with that"<P>What will she learn if YOU file, that you bailed her out again and saved her bacon. She doesn't learn, she's leaning on you to do the dirty work. And she will learn ZERO / NADA / NOTHING.<P>If you, on the other hand, want a divorce for your own reasons, then by all means file. But I don't think you do.<P>I feel pretty strongly about this. I think my H should have to file and feel the pain as a betrayer, I've had enough pain and I didn't want this whole deal. HE DID.<P>I gave you some pretty good advice about the River so I hope my feeling about this is as right on.<P>We care about you Beerman2. Be well.<P>Jo<P>p.s. But DO go to the attorney for advice on Paternity, that's a must!<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 21, 2000).]

...<p>[This message has been edited by Beerman2 (edited September 13, 2000).]

I think filing for divorce makes it easier on the betrayer. It makes you the one who cleans up after them. They don't have to do anything- not even show up for court. No, I think they should be responsible for ending it. They walked out on the marriage by cheating. They walked out on their commitment and responsibilities. They should be made responsible for their actions. <P>My STBX had it way too easy. I was plan A-ing the whole time. When we were separated, I cooked for him when he was hungry, had sex with him when he felt sentimental, packed his stuff for him so that all he had to do was pick up his boxes (his girlfriends unpacked), took care of his financial obligations, and just did everything. I gave him space to pursue his women. I listened to and believed all his lies. I made sure he wasn't stressed out by being "nice" about everything. Making him file was the one thing I wish I made him do. He felt no pain in walking away. It was all too easy.<P>It's not about punishment. It's about being fair. The way we show we don't want a divorce is by being supportive and loving. The way we show we are not hanging on to them and letting them go is by signing the papers- not by giving them the bullet by which to kill us.<P>There is one possible draw back to letting them file. I feel you lose your bargaining power over time. If you can get a property settlement agreement when things are still okay, do that to protect yourself, but leave the final filing to them. <P>You have nothing to lose by waiting or by letting them file.

...<p>[This message has been edited by Beerman2 (edited September 13, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beerman2:<BR>[B]Well, I just got off the phone with her. She called me because I had told her that she could talk to me about anything. Appearantly, she had spent her entire drive home (45 minutes) on the phone w/MM having an argument about how much time she was spending with our S.<P>MM feels that she gets to spend more time with our S than she should be allowed to! She was in tears (obviously), and extremely upset. She said that this was why she hadn't made a decision yet. We talked for a while and I was very good, I kept the education very gentle, and the advice to a bare minimum. Mostly I said, "I'm so sorry." After a little of this she told me she hated me. Meaning she hated me for making it so hard for her. My first compliment in a long time! <P>Phrend and Resilient- Before this, I was going to wait until I talked to a lawyer before I filed for divorce. This is the first news I've had in four months about how things are going between them. Not all wine and roses. Divorce plans are on hold for a while. I had even toyed with the idea of plan b, just couldn't figure out how to work that with a 2-year-old. Back to plan a! <P>Steve<P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I commend your strength. Continue to hold fast. I have heard "veteran couples" say the latter days are sweeter. <BR><P>------------------<BR>Love hurts no one.