I posted this on the emotional needs board. What do you think? <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/001609.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/001609.html</A> <BR>

Thanks Bonnie, I found it very interesting. <P>I think the plan's are meant to hopefully assist them out of the fog, however, original issues most likely exist.<P>However, the post really lifted my spirtits today. Despite, acknowledging my contributions to our problems, (though I am not entirely sure what all they are) I still feel like I've been made the blame for him being "in love" with OP.

Bonnie,<P>I think that counselor missed the point of why anyone cheats. Whatever is at home isn't getting it done, and the WS goes looking for something else. Just consider you and your H's situation.<P>I also feel that if you say to the WS, well it is your problem fix it, which in essence the counselor is saying the WS will say fine. I'll stay where I am with OP, and further I knew you didn't love me.<P>Finally, the doormat thing drives me crazy. The idea that the cheater gets away scott free is nuts. If you successfully rebuild the marriage, the guilt will be hugh for the WS. Further, if they do it again, the most often the BS will say fine, it is over.<P>You know it seems to me that people forget that "the best revenge is a life well lived." Of even a forgiving spouse, man can that make you feel small, if you do something wrong and you are forgiven. <P>For the serial cheater, really none of these approaches work, and one might as well say good bye, but the Harley's have noted something else, many times an affair is a one time thing and represents problems in the marriage that can be fixed. <P>You sure don't do that by telling the WS, you are going to pay and pay and pay for this mistake.<P>Just my opinion.<P>JL

I think that it all depends on the situation. For some, Plan A is perfect and works. For others like myself who are married to sex addicts, Plan A is a HUGE mistake. Basically, implementing Plan A makes somebody in my position an Enabler. I'm sending out a message that what he's doing is okay, I'll love him and forgive him and he'll keep walking on me. But that's why there's a plan B - because Plan A is not going to work for everybody. I think that Plan A is more for people dealing with EAs rather than PAs. But then again, that's just my interpretation.

The main thrust of Dr. Harley's approach is SAVING YOUR MARRIAGE. Do you want to or not? Are you willing to do all the work required or not? Are you going to react in the same manner that the WS has and simply do what feels "good" to you at the time? Or are you going to sit down and look at the options available to you to SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE?<P>If you want to do what you can to save your marriage, you will find that just about ALL of the plans are VERY similar to Dr. Harley's, and involve a HUGE commitment to doing all or most of the work to accomplish this. If you cannot make that commitment, then go right ahead and listen to those people who don't believe in saving marriages but in teaching people how to be as self-centered as a WS - and don't even begin to try to save the marriage. If you don't want to save your marriage - just get a divorce and get it over with.<P>However, if you truly want to give your marriage the best chances possible, then follow the plans that have been proven to be effective. When you are doing something because you have a well-laid plan and a goal in mind, you are NOT being a doormat, you are setting out to accomplish what you want.<P>I am not saying that other people's opinions are not valid, but it depends on your goal. To "beat" (figuratively speaking ONLY) a WS with his/her sins will do nothing but drive him/her away, so do that if you feel you are through. To expect something from a WS that he/she is not CURRENTLY capable of, such as contrite behavior (it is a simple fact that most of them cannot behave in that manner in the beginning of recovery) will, again, only drive him/her away, so if you really want to save your marriage, then realize the limitations of the other party.<P>While fidelity is certainly something that should be EXPECTED of your spouse, statistical evidence proves that it doesn't happen most of the time. Why is that? Mostly because we go into marriage with unrealistic expectations and no marriage survival skills. When these expectations are not met, we don't know what to do. Some of us who have not learned to put the needs of others before our own (which seems to me to be the bottom line in MOST affairs) turn to whatever - or WHOEVER - we feel can make us feel better. This DOES NOT JUSTIFY AN AFFAIR, but is simply an objective understanding.<P>I think an objective understanding of the causes of the affair in your marriage enables YOU to begin to understand your own part in the break down of your relationship. Many of us find ourselves WAY too emotionally loaded to step back and view our relationships objectively... and that doesn't make anyone a bad person. It will just be more difficult for those of us who cannot be objective to follow any of the plans that call for us to do pretty much ALL of the work. When you can be objective in viewing the entire picture, you simply set the goal, plan how to get there and implement your plan. Every person's situation is different, so Dr. Harley has created the most generic plans possible. They are meant to be executed with the assistance of a counselor (yes, that's right folks - "don't try this at home") who can help to tailor the plans to each person's individual situations. If you are not working with a counselor who understands the Harley Plans, don't blame the plans unless you are absolutely certain you have followed each of them to the letter. Most of us do not.<P>I'll get off my soap box now.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>