I'm sitting here tonight feeling really lonely and sad. I miss my H and I can't figure out why. He has hurt me more than anybody should hurt another person. He hasn't always been the easiest person to live with. He is moody, selfish and self absorbed most of the time. This is the way he has been the last 17 yrs. He has his good points to and maybe that is what I am missing. Or is it just lonliness? I sometimes wonder if its my H that I love so much or is it being married and not being alone. Being alone scares me to death. I miss not having him to talk to at night. Although most of the time we just talked about him and his day and what he wanted to talk about. He never really seemed to want to hear about my day ect. When I look back on the last 17 yrs I realize how much I gave and how little he did give. When I'm totaly and completely honest with myself I remember just how miserable i have been at times. There were many times through the years that I had wanted out of the marriage but I felt I had to stay. I guess that with all that has happened the last year I have put all of that hurt back in my mind. It wasn't until I was looking at pictures the other night that those memories started to get clearer. <P>I came to the recognition that this behavior for him isn't really new. He has been this way all of his life he just showed it in other ways. I have also relized that I have been a doormat for years and have let him treat me this way. Now I really question if I have ever loved H or have I been somehow addicted to him. Is this need to have him in my life love or is it just to fill my habit. I know I'm not a quitter and I certainly am quite territorial so maybe that plays some part in how I'm feeling also. <P>Soul searching tonight.........<P><BR>Jill

Jill,<BR> There had to be something that you saw in him in the beginning, something that you loved. Yes, he may not always have been meeting your needs, maybe you have some self esteem issues that you need to confront within yourself which could explain why you were content to live with and love someone who was not giving to you, and expected everything given to him. Somewhere, there is a reason. Maybe this is what you saw in your parents marriage, and you thought that was the way things are. What you are missing in him now, are the things that you felt he did give, and that is only natural. But you may someday find someone who will give when he needs to, and take only as much as he gives. Then you won't have to be sad and lonely wondering what it is about this broken relationship that keeps you hanging on. Until then, do the best you can to love and nurture yourself, and become happy within your own skin. That way it will be easier for you to have a more beneficial relationship in the future, and you will be less likely to cling to something that has been so unsatisfactory for you. Good luck to you. I hope you can get things figured out.

I feel the same way. I have loved my guy with all my heart--he is everything to me. So when people ask "Why do you stay? Why don't you give up on him? DUH!!" all I can say that is that he is my one true love. No other man would do, and I keep thinking that if nothing works out and I am to start dating someone new one of these days, I would hold the poor guy to the standards that my husband has--had once a long time ago. I couldn't help it.<P>Maybe love at first sight is stupid, I don't know. I never believed in it, that's for sure. But when I first saw him, I really felt something.<P>I remember the day. I was a new private in the army, reporting to the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, CA. We were sent to our classrooms to meet our instructors--and each other. And after reeling from that bad news that we had to learn Korean or else, the instructor added: "And these are the Marines that will be studying with you guys. Don't be too hard on them." And my husband stood up and intoduced himself to the rest of the class along with the two Marines. To me, he was the most beautiful guy I had ever seen--and I wasn't even looking for someone. It never even occured to me at the time that he and I would ever be together.<P>And to think that eventually, we got married, and lived together in a little house, and had a family!<P>So where did it all go wrong? It was like a dream come true--so how did it all turn into a nightmare?<P>If he only understood all along how much I loved him, really understood, then maybe this all wouldn't have happened. I keep kicking myself for not making it clear enough that I did.

Jill,<BR>Someone said on the recovery board something that struck me. Or spouses look at our marriage and see only the bad. We betrayed initally look at it and remember only the good as we struggle to save our marriage. But the truth is somewhere in the middle. All marriages are made up of good and bad parts and once our panic wears off or maybe as we get discouraged we can start to focus on the bad too.<P>Obviosly all of our marriges had some trouble or we wouldn't be here today. We all want our marriages to be better then they were, not going back to the same problems we had. I still have a hard time with my H saying everything for Lora, nothing for H, because I felt I was giving. I can not tell if it is part of the affair justification or if he really felt that way for a long time. Probably he did and hence the reason for the affair. But I didn't feel like I was getting alot either. i felt like I had to take care of myself, because he wasn't. So can we both make changes .. I would like to think so, but he doesn't seem capable at this point. <P>Have I rambled off track? What was the topic? LOL I guess i am saying I feel the same way you do. But all marriges have problems, and if we were both working on it I think we could stll be a good couple. But me working on it alone isn't going to cut it much longer.<BR>Lora

I often think that H thinks more of me as a mother figure than a wife. I have mothered him for many years now. I have also protected him from any problems that have come up and handled them myself. I think I did that because he just couldn't handle stress and I was afraid of having to deal with the depression that came with it. Just like now. Life got stressful and he did the only thing he has ever done he ran. I know I am at fault for not making him except his responsibilities and maybe its unfair of me to expect any different from him now. I just know that I can't live with the monster that I helped create. <P>My parents had a very disfunctional relationship, pretty much like we have. My Dad sat in the bar when he couldn't deal with problems and my Mom dealt with it all. So, yes, I suppose the pattern cont with me. I have always been a caretaker. I have worked in nsg homes for 20 years. I have done daycare ect so its only natural for me to be the caretaker in our relatiionship. Maybe I have smothered him, I don't know. For 16 years I worked the evening shift and he worked days so that we saved on daycare. I always tried to make the most of the time we had together. He got lonely, and bored and I think he resents me for that. I think he resents the fact that I wasn't home every night with him to keep him company and be the wife he needed. Last year when he left I didn't think about alot of this. I was in so much shock and pain that I wasn't dealing with things maybe as well as I should have. Now this time I relize that we have some major issues in our marriage and I just don't think we can ever fix them. There is alot of resentment on both of our sides. I resent him never taking responsibility for his actions. Financially ruining us countless times. He resents me not being there for him when he got home from work at night. Although he forgets that I was home all day by myself. He says the feeling just isn't there and I can't fight for it to come back anymore. So right now I guess I'll be doing a plan A and 1/2. Maybe I just need to work on being a good friend. We have always been that. <P>I wish I could afford a long vacation <P>Jill

Jill,<BR>Our stories are very similar. I am a health care worker and since I was working part time I felt it was up to me to solve all our problems, deal with most things.<P>I worked days, and he worked night or recently evenings and he resents that I have a more normal schedual and all he does is "work eat sleep" so he started going out after work woith OW for a little fun.<P>I wonder if our long term problems can be fixed. Aren't we in a good mood. I do hope I will learn from this if I ever even consider getting involved again.<BR>Lora

Jill,<P>Hopefully I can at least offer something to think about, if nothing else. Please remember that I am not a professional.<P>I'm sure that it's very difficult in situations such as these to believe that you ever loved this person. After all the years of hurt and disappointment, that's all that you can seem to remember. I would assume, that looking way back to the beginning, that there once was a great attraction between you. A feeling of love, admiration, and trust that felt reciprocated. Feelings that this affection between you would never die.<P>As time goes on during a marriage, things most definately change. The euphoric feeling of being "in love" disappears and we start to notice things about our spouse that we overlooked before. There are troubles, decisions, jobs, children, moves, deaths, and etc. Priorities seem to change. Change happens so slowly, that it often goes unnoticed until the end. We get into a routine, or a rut. We feel that something isn't quite right, but don't understand why or how to fix it. People often come to the conclusion that it could be worse. They become content in the relationship. They rationalize that their spouse isn't the worst person on the face of the earth, that they are financially secure, have beautiful children, don't fight, trust their spouse's fidelity, and that it could be worse. For years they accept the fact that although they are not completely emotionally fulfilled, they take comfort in being married, and being in their situation.<P>Eventually, they start to wonder if this is all that life has to offer. Where has that "in love" feeling gone? Although they still live together, are civil, and can go and have a good time together, something just isn't right. They are lonely inside. They feel as though they don't have a partner or companion to share their deepest emotions with.<P>Often times, when a women leaves the marriage or initiates a divorce, she feels the same common emotions as others: "He doesn't love me, he doesn't care about me, he doesn't listen to me, and her only wants to touch me for sex."<P>While these thoughts and feelings are very true and substantiated, it helps to understand why the come about.<P>In a nutshell, men and women are different. Men tend to treat women as men, and women do the same. Most men don't know how to communicate with women. How to listen. How to show admiration and devotion. How to understand their feelings and emotions with compassion, and that often just listening to her talk about her thoughts will comfort her. We do what we are taught to do, fix things. It is very hard for us to intently listen to a woman go on and on about her problems and just listen, without offering advice. We have trouble following how all of the different changes in subject are relative to each other. We are easily confused, lose focus, and appear to not listen. Especially if we remember having the same conversation last week, last month, or last year. It is hard for us to understand why the same topic has come up again, as we thought that it was already fixed. This gives a woman the impression that we don't care, otherwise we would understand what she was saying. We don't understand that this is a way in which women deal with stress. We normally don't talk about a problem unless we want advice, so we do what comes naturally and it doesn't work. I will say, in my own life, that I have recently learned to express myself in conversation, and it is very relaxing and theraputic, so you women are on to something! Anyway, most men also don't understand that a women needs comfort and affection, to be held and caressed, as a show of love. We typically don't understand that as it doesn't do much for us, and we tend to only touch when we want sex. This leads a woman to feel used, only good for one thing, and as my wife used to say "a piece of meat." This in itself, creates sexual friction in the relationship, and for good reason. She isn't interested as it has no emotional attachment, and he feels rejected. Friction. A good example of our feeling with holding and caressing is to look at the different ways in which a man and a women pet a cat, or hold a small child in their arms.<P>Women don't typically understand how we work. Why we don't communicate well. Why we aren't in touch with our emotions or why we can't have an intimate conversation. We tend to deal with stress internally, and often withdraw from the relationship to do it. To a woman, this lack of communication is unsettling. From a woman's perspective, if another woman won't talk to them, it means that either thay don't care about them, they don't trust them, or what they have to say might hurt them. When a man does this, the woman's imagination runs wild. We will often spend time alone dealing with our stress, often watching T.V., playing on the computer, or working in the yard. Although we are dealing with stress by controlling something in our life for a small sense of accomplishment, such as fixing something, this is misunderstood. We can't control some types of stress in life, so we deal with it in accomplishment, that we actually fixed and controlled something. This is seen as wasting time and not showing love. For if a woman was to show love, she would want to communicate her problems with someone that she trusted. As we spend time apart dealing with stress, we eventually come back to our spouse for affection. Because she didn't understand why we withdrew, we are sometimes given the silent treatment. We learn that for coming back we were scorned, and through time spend more and more time away emotionally. Hence the perception of our priorities changes. We spend more time doing other things, and she feels that we don't care about her anymore.<P>Women, typically the loving and nurturing type, tend to give more in the relationship as the man gives less. She feels that eventually, he will catch up. We don't understand this and don't see a problem, as if there was, why would she be so loving? This goes on until the woman is fed up, and wants out, feeling that she has given all that she could and is through working on it.<P>Men don't understand a woman's need for continuous affirmation of a man's love. We think that if they know that we love them, then they always will until we tell them differently. We stop acting as we did when we were dating. We stop being romantic, giving gifts, or bringing flowers. We unknowingly base everything on our perception of a point system. If we provide financially and buy a couple of big, expensive, lot-of-point gifts, that everything is fine. We don't understand that buying a $5,000+ diamond and picking a flower out of the yard on the way into the house both count as 1 point. Most women would agree that their spouse has "changed" since they were dating. That he used to be so romantic. That he always wanted to hold her and touch her. That he used to buy her things and that he seemed to listen to her. Now, he's just lazy. When dating, men listen as they are gathering details. They don't know this person and wnat to know what it will take to win their heart. They buy gifts and are very romantic. They touch her everywhere because they can't touch her where they "want" to touch her. Once they have her, they tend to forget the things that they did to get her, and she feels unloved and taken for granted.<P>Another issue is with our individual emotional needs. There can be alot found on this site as well as others as to what they are and how to express them. We each tend to give our spouse what we want, as that's how we feel. Unless our spouse has the same emotional need, our loving attempts go unnoticed. Because our spouse isn't doing what we need to make us feel fulfilled, we grow apart and feel unloved.<P>I feel that you should consider several things in your marriage. First, in some way you are both responsible for arriving at this point in your marriage. That isn't to say that one is more responsible than the other, but both are to some extent. Ideally, the fastest results will be accomplished if you are both willing to learn what can be done differently and work on them. That isn't to say that you alone educating yourself and making changes won't work, it definately will. He will eventually start to feel more love from you and want to reciprocate, the timetable has more to do with the sate of your marriage and other circumstances which are different from marriage to marriage. Second, are you willing to work at it, not do you want to, but are you willing to recreate what has been lost? You need to understand that regardlees of what has happened in your marriage, he is still the same man that you married. His feelings and actions that were there when you were dating, are still there. That, and the fact that people can change back to what they were or into something better.<P>Sorry, I have cut short, (you mean there's more to say?), as she just called and I need to get a flower before we meet for lunch.<P>Good luck with any decision.

Hello All. <BR>My H and I too had opposite schedules. I worked -Th and he F - SU. This saved us gobs in the begin., with childcare. I have been working full time and going to school full time to finish up my degree so that we could have nicer things and really enjoy life. I graduate in February, but sometimes it is hard to be excited about it since I feel ike it may have cost me my marriage. I have filed for divorce, becuase in my state a lot of things depend on who files first. My H was running all hours in the night with friends from work, one of which is a female. I don't think anything has happend between them, but I think there definately was an emotional affair with her. We have come a little ways. Eventhough I have filed, he is still in the home. I told him as long as he can follow 3 rules, I don't mind if he stays here while we work things out. To me they were common sense:<BR>1. Be civil<BR>2. No "all nighters" in the bar<BR>3. Help with common chores around the house<BR>This gives me more opportunities to work Plan A, but I also have to watch that I don't smother. I have a real tendency to have to have an answer right now becuase I think that will fix every thing. The problem is that the smothering gets me no where!!!<BR>If any of you are Oprah fans, you will know Dr. Phil. Well, when all of this started (I hadn't found this sight yet) I e-mailed Dr. Phil for help! I was desperate. I actually got a response back. Even if it wasn't from Dr. Phil himself, it was from someone in his organization and he said, "Until you can look yourself in the mirror and say I have <BR>turned over every stone and examined every avenue of rehabilitation available in this relationship then you don’t have the right to quit." This helps me so much when I get in my slumps becuase I know if we can get through this and be "in love" again, we will be so much stronger!!!<BR>Looking back, I know I was to partly to blame for our drifting apart. I think as women, if things aren't perfect, we are ok with it....until it goes so long. My H lets it go so that there isn't any conflict and then it gets to this point....divorce and no conflict... Isn't that ironic.<BR>I know I was so wrapped up in making things better for us as a family, that I forgot about him as a person. The problem with realizing this is the fact that he thinks it is a temporary change and things will go back to the way they are.<BR>I think part of our problem was that we were always putting the family first and that we didn't take more time for "US". If someone would have told me 5 years ago that it is hard to balance being a mom and a wife, I would have them, "What's the big deal". Wow, was I off base!!!!<BR>I guess I rambled off the beaten path too..oops!! I guess what I am trying to say is as hard as Plan A seems, considering all they have done, I have to do this for ME. A couple people in my life are asking me that same question. "Why are you doing this knowing all that he has done and said". I tell them, "I need to know, if our realtaionship ends in divorce, that I did everything in my power to hold it together and make things work". I have this determination because I love this man with all of my heart and it scares me to think that there could be a day where he isn't here with me and our son.<BR>I guess this "book" is meant to tell you to keep trying, keep fighting for the marriage that you deserve, and when you get to those low points, log on and let your friends support you here!!!!<BR>Jennifer<P>------------------<BR>

ok still praying,<P>Who are you and where have you been all of my life? <P>What a wonderful reply. How did you get so smart?<P>Jim...I think this is "notable" material.<P>It's such a gift to come to these boards and get to read the kind of wisdom that quite a few here have. I don't know how some people became so evolved, and some of us are stuck in pain. It's like they can step out of their own pain and see a picture that so many of us are missing.<P>Just wanted to say, excellent post. I'll be printing this one up for my own "notable posts" file.<P>thank you...allison<P>

SP,<P>I totaly agree with most of your points. I have most of my life been pretty understanding to the way men are. I grew up in a house with three brothers. I'm not one that craves affection or has to have romance 24-7. Sure I like it once in awhile but I knew that it was hard for him to do. What I see as I look back is him being totaly self absorbed. Everything he did and said was about him and because I loved him It never really bothered me until now. This last year I really started to take notice on how much time we spent on his likes and dislikes and how little we spent on mine. I was like a codependant to selfishness. I bought what he liked me to buy, I did his erronds if I had time for them or not, I made only what he liked to eat, I set his clothes out everyday, I got up early every morning even if I worked until midnight to make his lunch. The list goes on and on. I never complained, I enjoyed doing for him. Now I realize how wrong I was not only for myself, but for him and the kids to. The day it hit me was a few weeks ago. He had been telling me about his day and his life and gossip he had heard for about a hour or so. I brought up something that somebody had told me that day and he looked at me with a rude look and said," So whats the point, why do I care." I then relized what a [censored] he could be and I remembered other times he had done similiar things to me. I've been in a lifetime of denial to his lack of respect of me. I know that maybe now I'm just a little angry with him, well lets say alot angry. I feel that I need to find myself again. I know the old me is still there and until I can find myself and self respect again I can't work on my marriage. Will it wait? I don't know I just know that right now he is being his normal selfish self and I'm not putting up with it anymore. <P>Thankyou for your mans point of view. I will keep your post for future reference.<P>Thanks again,<P>Jill

Berzzini-<P>I can concur! I met my H a year before we had our first date. On the night of our date he walked in late from playing sports and he was pumped. Yea, he was sweaty, but the body!<P>I have always desired his body ever since. We talked last night and I brought this out in the open, that I thought he looked so sexy, and he said he had never known that. I guess in my immaturity, that must have lasted through our entire marriage, I never TOLD him what I felt about his body or lovemaking. I just assumed that because we were married and we made love with gusto, that that pretty much said it all. WRONG. <P>By the time th OW came along, his self esteem was very low from many years of dissatifaction of many EN's, and he had brought mine down too. She must have admired his mind and flattered his looks and that is "all she wrote." If he had been honest to me about his needs, his likes and dislikes, I could have worked on the changes before he found it in someone else. <P>Neither of us were showing each other our selves, or talking about our needs(physical or emotional). Or even what had excited us in years past when it was still...wow. When it disappeared neither of us knew to ask for it back, because we did not really know what was missing.<P>Now I have to help my H fall back in love with me, so he can be happy; so both of us can be. Right now he really loves the OW, and cannot let her go. He cannot touch me, because he loves someone else. At least I know that he can only make love to one woman at a time. But as long as he wants her, I am stuck trying to make, at least, a friend out of my H. He has not been able to talk freely to me for some time, even as a friend. I'll take that as a start.<P>I'll take the honesty he shared with me last night as a positive step. It is the first step he has made since d-day. I know he wants to save the marriage and share in the raising of his children. He does not feel love for me and at the moment he cannot give up the OW(it is more EA, she lives in another state), he does not dislike me either; just an absence of feeling. He says, "All I need is to love you again..." and feel desired and wanted! Me too! I feel confident that with the help of Dr. H's method, there might be a chance to rekindle it . We will see how it goes. <P>At least I have had one good night sleep since d-day. He gives a little, I feel a lot! But I was happy, if only briefly.

Maybe it seems like I am bashing my H. I'm not trying to I'm just trying to figure out what exactly has gone wrong. If you would go back to my old posts from last year you would see just how hard I fought for my marriage. I put everything second and I put up with alot but I hung in there. I can only do so much. H told me that he has always felt that I was nice to him ect this past year just to be better than the OW. I was using all of the MB principles ect and this is what I got more guilt. Right now I think I could plan A him to death and he would just see it as I'm playing a game to win him back. So what do I do? Like I said before I'm going to work on being his friend and moving forward with my life. Right now I can't any longer work on keeping my marriage alive. As much as I wish I could for my own sense of self I can't. I feel beaten and bruised and I need to pick myself up and heal myself first before I can ever attempt to heal the marriage.

Crazy or What-<P>[QUOTE]Originally posted by crazy or what?:<P>"I often think that H thinks more of me as a mother figure than a wife. I have mothered him for many years now. I have also protected him from any problems that have come up and handled them myself. I think I did that because he just couldn't handle stress and I was afraid of having to deal with the depression that came with it. Just like now. Life got stressful and he did the only thing he has ever done he ran. I know I am at fault for not making him except his responsibilities and maybe its unfair of me to expect any different from him now. I just know that I can't live with the monster that I helped create."<P>This is commonly called co-dependece. Many woman suffer from this. I DO and it does, in my opinion, take some of the H's self respect. They feel they have no power in the relationship, that is why you feel like his "mother." This is also common thing we do to our kids, we fix everything for them, and it never lets them be independent and self-sufficient adults. Look it up in the library, there are a lot of good books on the subject. It effects self esteem very deeply and sneakily too! And we know that low self esteem is a major cause of being attracted by someone else!<P>"Maybe I have smothered him, I don't know"<BR> <BR>"I resent him never taking responsibility for his actions"<P>We do, as the co-dependent person finally resent the "weakness" we have created. This pushes away the people we have been "taking care of" because they feel they cannot live up to your expectations. It is a Catch 22.<P><BR>Still Praying-<BR>It sounds like you have been listening to John Gray and his Men are from mars and Women are from Venus--I love his theories too. I worked with those, alone because my h would not read the book, for many years and thought they were very helpful! <P><p>[This message has been edited by burnedspouse (edited August 27, 2000).]

The funny thing is, is that I either have lower expectations regarding happiness, or I have deceived myself all these years thinking we were happy.<P>My H was very thoughtful and conciderate and for the most part I have always appreciated it.<P>Our last few years have been stressful, mostly due to crises with his work... I guess I knew that we were more distant than before. He was working many hours without a break and I was sort of on cruise control here at home with the kids. <P>But I figured highs with lows...and that as things eased up and he got a partner and had more time we would reunite. <P>I realize many of my mistakes now. I'm sure my interpretation of his stress at work, was to feel and show stress at home as can happen with 3 young children.<P>Seems my H could take none of it anymore. Including the job of the kids.<P>I probably never depended on my H to meet all of my EN's and I think he did depend on me to. I slacked off, and OW happened to be at the right place a=t the right time.<P>Although at various points he has said he only has a few good memories, I know better.<P>He won't even look at photos of him smiling from last year. I don't think I've seen him =smile since this whole mess started.<P>And at marraige counseling he even admitted to problems of 2 years, and due to stress at work and not telling me.<P>Wheree I missed the boat was not giving him leeway.... I kept obsessing about the affair, rather than the problems even though I kept telling him that I knew the problem was not the affair.<P>I love my H because I know this is not him. This is a person that needed to run away into a fantasy to escape THE problems. I think I just tried to control the situation too much. <P>I've stopped controlling and just accepting, but I'm afraid it is too late.

What is so wierd about this is I strive to make my kids independant. I encourage them to work out thier own problems. I have encouraged them to get jobs to pay for what they want ect. What you say is so true. My H has many times said he will never be as good a person as I am. I have tried to make him feel good ect. I have even purposefully screwed up the checkbook or forgot to pay bills just so he needed to handle it. Pretty pathetic isn't it. He is a very good looking, man. Almost too good looking for his own good. He is a very complicated person. He seems so self assurred and confident. He fooled me for many years. I always thought he was the most confident person I knew. I was wrong he is the most insecure person I know. I think that what he needs right now more than anything is the chance to become his own person. He needs to live life without counting on me to do everything for him. I just hope his new OW won't take over where I left off. His last OW was a fruit cake. She was very needy and clingy. He couldn't deal with that at all. I just wish he would live alone for awhile, but I can't do anything about that. <P>Thanks to all of you who have posted on this thread so far you really opened my eyes to certain issues. This board is so healing. Not only do you get the love and support from others here, you get the chance to write down your feelings, reread them and maybe learn from what you yourself has written.<P>Jill

Jill,<BR> It's only natural that after a long time of not getting your needs met, and of making sure that his needs were, you would get to a place where you would think "Hey, what about me, I want something too." <BR> I, too, "mothered" my husband. We have come to see that we both need to rethink our roles in the marriage. I told him that I am there for support, but not to deal with all heavy issues, so he can go on his merry way. It now is obvious that it must be a 50/50 team effort if we are to make it. We are doing much better facing things together than each of us did alone.<BR> Also, I feel for you on the "different shifts" thing. That is part of the reason the A in our marriage happened. He wanted me to quit, I didn't feel that we could survive on what he made, and he thought I didn't care about him or his needs, so he went elsewhere. He now realizes what a mistake that was, as he has this woman tracking him down wherever, confronting and screaming about "his kid", and him not giving her a chance to "love him". All this could have been avoided if he would have just talked to me about his feelings. Not screamed, not pulled away emotionally, but talked. Instead, he chose to lean on someone else, who was only too happy to lead him into a trap. Now we have a lot more to deal with besides the problems in our marriage. We are doing well, but the rules have changed, and we both know this, and are abiding by it. This is why I still love him, because he is proving to me that he is willing to meet my EN's, and I am happy to fulfill his EN's. It is an equal deal now. We had to see what we had lost, before we were willing to make the changes that would bring it back.

Yes, I am afraid that the different shift thing was a big cause of our marriage falling apart. I hated not being home with them at night and was begining to just feel like the maid. H hated being alone,and I can't blame him. H knew I wanted to get a different position so I could work days but that meant less money and he didn't like that so the viciouse cycle just kept going. I did take a day shift position after he left last year. We spent alot of time together this year in the evenings talking, watching tv ect. Now he tells me that he has felt smothered and that he isn't used to me being around so much. I guess there is just know winning this one. Lonely but smothered= confused.<P>

I just finished packing up H things as he is moving on friday and I work all week. It was kind of theraputic. I've been thinking how I can rearrange things, I moved pictures around ect. I felt I've been fair as to what I'm letting him take. Its hard to see things we bought together be packed up knowing that they will be hanging in another house. But I guess they are just things and life goes on. I think its really harder on the kids. I wish I could make this easier for them. Especially my middle son. He hasn't been himself lately. 14 is a hard enough age I wish he didn't have to deal with this to.<BR>I haven't heard or talked to H since Thursday night. I suppose he will be here in the AM to get his lunch and some clean clothes. <P>I hope you all have had a great weekend!<P>Jill

Hi there-<P>You are NOT crazy <P>First of all-it is ok to not like being alone. I like to believe that most of us marry because we want to share our lives with another person who is very important to us. And in my book there isn't a thing wrong with that!<P>Secondly-If I remember correctly Dr. Phil McGraw says that the rason we have a hard time letting go and we can't remember all the bad times are because we are remember our life as we "wanted" to remember it. Or in other words-we hang on to a dream that is NOT realistic.<P>I was married 3 weeks after turning 18. By the age of 19 1/2 I had one son. By the age of 22 I had lsot one son and had another. In my mind all I had to do other than be a wife was make a family and all our troubles would cease. It is hard for me to believe I was ever that naive. But I was. And what I was really wanting in my life at that time was to escape an extremely horrid childhood and mother.<P>My ex changed from a very nice and kind person into a druggie and alcoholic. Of course that led to OW. <P>I didn't know what to do. I knew that I could never support my two sons as I had no job and no other resources. EX blamed everything on me. And yet I can remember very clearly begging him to go get help with me so we could be happy. This went on for a long time. I stayed married to the man for over 13 years.<P>Then I met my current H.<P>Talk about happy. I thought I had everything I ever wanted. And I still believe I did other than the fact that H is a workaholic.<P>After 10 years of marriage I am informed by him that he and a friend of mine had an extremely long affair.<P>I think that aprt of it was due to our lack of time spent together but I also think he needed an ego stroking and I just didn't see the signs. I am also sure there are more reasons but to me that is NOT the important thing right now.<P>He wants me. He loves me. And we are doing very well in recovery.<P>Some people just are NOT meant to be together. I am sorry and I know some here will disagree. But truly-I haven't got ahrd feelings towards my EX. We just were two very different people wanting different things out of life. And I really think it is OK to go our separate ways.<P>I will pray for you-I will pray that you can look within yourself and find out what you really want in life. Anbd I will pray that you get what you want in life. But please do not sell yourself short. It wouldn't amke your situation any better.<P>I will aslo pray that your H discovers what a fine woman he had-and maybe he will be the man you are in love with <P>Good luck for ever.<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<BR>"Loyalty Is A Two Way Street"<BR>

Thankyou very much heartache. What you said has really hit home to me. Sounds like you have had your share of problems to. I'm really happy for you and your H. I'm glad he came to his senses and didn't let you go. I agree though. There are people who just arn't suited with each other. H and I were married young. I was anyway. We only knew eachother a few months before I moved in with him right after high school. It wasn't long and I was pregnant. I had three kids by the time I was 22. H was 23 when we got married. I am his second wife. I often forget about that because she never really was a factor. H and her were married very young and divorced after a year. He had alot of problems way back then but I was to young and naive to see them. Maybe they were all right when they say marriages don't last when they happen when one is so young. I never thought that applied to me but I guess it does.<P>Jill