Resilient had a fun thread about getting rid of all the stuff that had to do wiht the OP. In most cases I notice the gifts from the OP were so "special" to the WS that he/she never noticed or never metioned they were gone. The betrayed spouse and repentant WS seem to want to start anew and go forward. However at least in my case, and it seems many other, if H had ended up with OW she would have been more than happy to live in OUR house, drive our car, use our furniture, have our dog etc. To me that is just plain weird. Do people (particularly women it seems) who are OP have so little sense of self that they are so willing to slide into another woman's life even though usually according to them the W is such a nag, b---h, fill in appropriate insult, that she would NEVER be like her? They don't want to be anything like us supposedly, yet they would be content to just unpack and move in, taking our place. If I were single and met a new man I would not want to live in a house he'd shared with another woman, drive her car or sit on her furniture. Guess that's one reason why I'd never be an OW lol. Anyone else's thoughts?

When the STBX and I were talking about reconciliation, I told him that the only thing he would be bringing back into our house was his clothes. He balked! But he'd bought this fabulous leather sofa (that the OW picked out and that they probably slept together on), and he had this great new bed (same thing). Forget it! There is no way I want any left overs from any woman. <P>If she was a girlfriend and a woman of great taste and it was not a betrayal situation, I wouldn't mind a piece of art or something that she bought or picked out sitting around, but something like a bed? No way. Bad feng shui.

I am trying to figure that out too. I don't know if my H took Ow camping this weeekend in out trailer. I had my stuff, clothes. cosmetics, etc. in there. How would she be able to handle that? I would not want to be in some other womans space like that.<P>Sometimes when I read the OW board though it seems they take a certain pleasure in "winning "to the extent that they use the wives things. Its almost like a dog peeing on his territory. I just don't get it. Or maybe I do, and thats why I feel so violated thinking of her using my stuff.<BR>Lora

What can I say!<P>Many OW are OW precisely because they are like Cuckoo Birds - a specie that wouldn't build its own nest but would push another (type) bird (a hardworking nest builder) which has built a nest. The Cuckoo bird would viciously empty the nest of the little ones and sit in its 'newfound' nest. The cuckoo bird is far more vicious and ugly than the gentle domesticated bird's nest it violently pillage and make its own. It then lays its egg. I saw this on Tv (documentary).<P>It's true of my H's OW - she visited our property - often lingering at the security post or outside the wall. The wife is like a faceless vacous personality until OW begins to feel that she wants it all - NOW!<P>Ever wondered why the OW never go for jobless married men with no home? Some OW never actually find out that the wife could have been the big provider too. What I can say! - Ow are usually there for a free ride to a comfortable life.

Yeah Fairydust,<P>Check this out!<P>During the time H was still here, the OW voice paged him approx. 14 times an evening (from 12:00 - 4:00 am), every evening for 7 months (I am not kidding!).<P>Well I had the PIN number and was listening to all of them (I taped them as well).<P>In several of her voice pages she said how she wanted to be ME. Because I was married to H and have his love, have a good job, have a very nice home and keep a clean house , go to church, have the love and support of in-laws, go to the family gatherings and had both OCs love ... so she wanted to be ME!<P>She said she wondered if there was a Resilient Course she could take or something so H would choose her over me. <P>A bit psychotic wouldn't you say???<P>I say if illicit sex was fastfood, OW would have arches over her bed. <P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 26, 2000).]

Psycotic? Naa Jo,<BR>I knew you were perfect. I want to be you too. LOL, well Maybe I just want to be anyone but me today.<BR>lora

One additional Note:<P>Remember ...the OWs are wanting our H's too. So I look at it like they're use to getting sloppy seconds!<P>Jo

It is a weird phenomenon. ExOW also told me how she'd dreamed of spending holidays with my H and his family. Meanwhile his sister and her H (the only ones I told about the affair) were making up all kinds of names for her, said "That s--t will never walk through my door or be anywhere around my kids". SIL hosts most of the family gatherings too. MIL (who never found out thank God) said that if he was having an affair she would burn her house down before some OW entered it. Yeah, I'd love to spend time with a family who all talked about what trash I was. Of course I'm sure she had visions of being welcomed with open arms. Right, by a close knit, traditional, Italian family (I doubt H told her MIL almost became a nun!) who doesn't believe in divorce.<BR> OW was also quite surprised to learn that we met because H's younger brother was one of my best friends since high school, H's father had a terminal illness, H's mother had a life threatening surgery during the time she was with H. So much for all that "meaningful sharing" that goes on during emrs.

Good point about sloppy seconds Resilient! If you already want another woman's H then why not her home, bed, furniture maybe even her clothes!<BR>

I know I'll probably get blasted for this post..but, I'm going to say it..<P> I have been in Internet affairs w/ MM<BR> to where I was the OW in their life..<BR> they would msg me asking for a "females<BR> perspective" I'd tell them talk to their<BR> wives, learn to date their wives again,<BR> (things I wish my h would do for me)<BR> but doesn't..I became very Emotionally<BR> involved with some of these men, even <BR> just trying to help them and give them<BR> things to try in their marriages..(don't<BR> know if they ever did or not, I think some<BR> of them either did, and they were able to <BR> work on and save their marriages because<BR> they don't go online anymore) or their wives found out and destroyed the computers..I don't know..I don't really care..except I pray they found whatever it is they were looking for..in their marriage..My h doesn't meet so many of my EN even when I try to talk to him about them..so I talk to others..I don't go to the chat channels much anymore<BR>because I know what I need isn't there. <BR> Most of these men/women just want to talk..and they say their husbands/wives don't listen to them..they aren't looking for sex..they are looking for someone to talk to about what they are feeling..and they don't<BR>know how to talk to their spouses..because for whatever reason their is a drift between<BR>them that they don't know how to fix, or what <BR>to do, so they go looking for 'help' in the chat rooms..someone, anyone who will just listen to them..someone they can share w/<BR>whether it's lies or whatever..it meets a need to talk to someone..<P>I myself got into counseling..and back in church..and realized that yes, I have these needs but that I was looking in the wrong place to meet those needs..sure h still isn't meeting them..but I have found most all of my EN met by Christ..I can talk to Him anytime<BR>day or night..I started keeping a journal<BR>as opposed to going online..and writing my <BR>feelings out there..and I feel so much better<BR>about myself..sure things aren't working out<BR>w/ h because I am changing..but..I'm also<BR>okay w/ that these days..it hurts that he can't meet these needs yes..and I wish that<BR>he would at least try..but right now I don't trust him..not because of any affairs but because he has never met these needs and when I would try to share things he would throw them up in my face in a later arguement or discussion..so I have learned not to trust him with these feelings I have..so I have learned not to share w/ him..no matter how much I want to, I can't..because I don't want it used against me later..<P>I go online now and talk to women friends...<BR>and do a bible study, and stay away from giving advice except that they seek marriage<BR>counseling or counseling just for themselves..and only talk to men that I know<BR>are safe..and they are the young kids looking for motherly advice..other than that..I avoid them..because I know it can become very emotional..and mental..something I am learning is a very important EN I have..<P>So for all of you who have OW in your spouses lives because of the internet..I would suggest you either join him online..<BR>whether it be get yourself a computer and talk to him, if you are seperated and you both have computers..if you know what nick they uses..then go online from your house.and let them talk to you..it's one way to find out what it is they are thinking..and who knows they may find out that you are the OP in their life.. kinda like that old song..<BR> If you like pina-coloda's<BR> If you like walks in the rain..<P>Maybe just learn to talk about little things<BR>first in person..and see if you can meet their need for talking..

ThornedRose - I will agree that many men are not looking for sex when they have an affair - they are looking for admiration. Lots of times we get so caught up in the negative aspects of life that we forget to give our spouses the support and, yes, admiration that they need. It was not difficult for slug to convince my husband that she admired him - she is too dumb to do anything BUT admire a man with a half a brain (and my husband has far MORE than half a brain... at the moment, it doesn't appear that he is really using it, but that's another issue).<P>Like I said on another thread - most of us go into marriage never understanding how much work it really is. We aren't prepared with the proper communication skills and we don't really understand how to maintain a loving, rewarding relationship. We think that we will live happily ever after ...<P>Wrong.<P>I am glad that you have found a way to have your needs met without having to take something away from someone else. I wish that more potential OW or WS would find something besides another human being to do that!<P>I, too, have asked myself why an OW would want to step into the life of a person they profess to despise (us). It is because they belive that they can be BETTER at our lives than we are!!! Slug has told various people various things about feeling that she is better than I am. And since she was the recipient of many of his (somewhat true) vents about me, she knows just what to avoid (she thinks) to keep from making him unhappy. Well, statistics have proven that the mask will slip - and that she will not be able to pretend to be something she is not forever - since one of the things that my husband indicated was a problem for him was my lack of housecleaning motivation, she has been attempting to pretend that she is clean and neat. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I know several people who know what she is like when it comes to housecleaning... Let's put it this way: Mine is cluttered (I tend to be something of a packrat) - in hers, you might find toadstools growing in the bathtub scum...<P>At any rate, my point is that they really believe that they could step into our shoes and be so much better at our lives than we are, "if only" they had the same opportunities... ugh!<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

I just do not understand how and OW could want my life. My H thinks she is a moral, christian person. I think she can not be because she is trying to steal my H out from under my nose. It is so hard to fill up his EN when someone eles is doing it first making mine not count.

Well, H said OW was a Christian but once the sex started she dropped Christ even though H said he wanted to stop and seek Christ. Now that the A has stopped, OW is making all efforts to let H know that she is a Christian again?!<P>You really can't beat them at MORPHING.

I'm thankful I found that emotional need met somewhere else as well, I know that in the Long run I am a better person because of it..<BR>I have had to face a lot of ugly truths about<BR>myself..and why I felt I needed to "look for that attention elsewhere" not that my husband doesn't find me attractive and tells me..it's just the way he does it..it's as if all he<BR>see's is "just" the body..and not the whole me..and thinks I should be just fine and dandy thinking I am some sex toy for his gratification..but as I heal emotionally I find his comments rude and distasteful and completely lacking any respect for me..and our children (because he makes them in front of them) one day...It will all be okay..with or with out him...