I can only speak from my own experience on this. Whether or not this can work depends on you and your H's willingness to be open and utilize the methods. No, it's not easy at all! Nothing excuses what my H has done. NOTHING! But let's face it, I've broken my vows too. Either Lostva or Lor made a good point in saying that there during the wedding, there was no more emphasis made on the vow that he broke than there was on the ones that I broke.<P>Can you ever forget the OP or the A? Personally, I don't think that I ever will. Can I forgive it - probably, even though I'm not even close yet. I'm doing Plan A more for myself than anything. I haven't been a good wife to my H. I'm going to start, and if things still don't change in my marriage, then I can move on and not have the "What ifs?" or "If onlys..." that I would if I hadn't put forth a 100% effort.<P>Also, EB, keep in mind that for the most part, you are seeing the absolute worst parts of marriages in this room. Very rarely do you see somebody post about the positive steps that they're making - usually people come in here when they're feeling hurt and frustrated, and they don't want to take it out on their S & make things worse. The posts here are not necessarily a reflection of the marriage as a whole.<P>Even Dr. Harley himself says that adultery is the most selfish, thoughtless act a person can commit. But it happens in the majority of marriages. You have to gauge for yourself whether you want to work on it and whether your S is really sorry and wants to work things through or if he's just sorry he got caught. (I'm going to get reamed by everybody for that one, but certain people have a different concept of right and wrong. You could be the perfect S to certain people, and they'll STILL cheat.) I would still argue that the MB is effective for self-improvement in all situations, as long as you're open-minded to the process.<P>Best of luck no matter what you decide to do.

EB - reading the postings here on this thread have had me thinking all day, and much of what you have said really hits home with me. I agree with you that spouses staying together out of duty or because of children isn't a success story. I also agree that it isn't much of a success story when the BS wants vengence, the couple doesn't have sex(make love), or simply does not trust the WS. Living in the same home walking on eggshells for fear that your spouse will seek out their OP or another OP is not a success.<P>I disagree with you on the blanket statement "this stuff doesn't work" I believe that this "stuff" does in fact work with "some" people, but maybe with not all. Like everything else in life, the marriagebuilders principles and theories can guarantee absolutely nothing, but I do believe that they can offer people a plan as to how to recover and rebuild.<P>I read much of what is written on this site, as you do, and I too feel that there is not very much success, as I would define success, that goes on. Maybe that is because those who have "real" success leave this site. I too have read about some of these so-called success stories and have thought to myself that this doesn't seem much like a marriage that I would want to be in, but the sentiments that you have expressed does not often get posted because of the fear of being attacked.<P>I think that it is unfair that some have attacked you for posting your thoughts because these thoughts are contrary to the marriagebuilders principles. I am sure that of the many people that simply lurk on this site, your thoughts are not that uncommon, but why comment when you are going to be attacked. I have posted similar thoughts and I have been attacked, but it doesn't bother me, but I'm sure for others it would.<P>I am a firm believer in that not every marriage is salvageable or even should be salvaged(this is the type of stuff that has had me flamed before, how dare I come to this site if I'm not for ALL marriages being saved, NO MATTER WHAT), but I think that is for the individuals in that relationship to decide for themselves. I do believe that before coming to that decision, every effort should be made to first find out if you really want the marriage or whether or not the marriage is worth having, and I do believe the principles here will help with that decision.<P>I am not sure my own marriage can be saved, there is a long history of pain that precedes my W's affair, that both my W and I are working to overcome. I don't know if my marriage will ever be a good one, I don't know if I or my W will ever be able to overcome all that has happened, I don't know if staying married is the "right thing" for us to do, but I do know that I want to make sure that every effort is made to find the answers to those questions. If we follow the principles here and we end up in a great marriage down the road, then I will be one helluva happy guy, but if we end up parting, at least I will know that I gave it my all and left no stone unturned, but I don't think I would end up saying that this stuff doesn't work, it just didn't work for me.<P>So before you give up on your marriage, give these principles your best shot, if it is simply too much for you to handle, or you feel that there is simply too much to overcome, then part with your spouse and move forward with your life. <P>No one here on this site should sit in judgement of you or criticize you because of the decision that you make, you know more than anyone here, what is best for you, how much you can endure, what you can live with, I simply advise that you give it your all first and see what happens, who knows, you may be surprised <p>[This message has been edited by F A (edited August 29, 2000).]

I just have a couple of comments... <P>Energizer, unfortunately I am feeling like you at this phase of my recovery w/ H. I just hadn't put it into words. Your post struck a big chord with me. Although I come here for some insights into certain things, I don't necessarily feel that all of the principles within this site work, or are beneficial for long-term success. I also feel that it depends on the very individual personalites of the people that practice them. <P>Some people can be hurt very badly, but have something in their emotional make-up which allows them to recover and bounce back within a reasonable amount of time. Others can have very small things happen to them, and they will feel the pain of it and have a hard time letting go for AGES. I still have friends from 6th grade, that have done some crappy things to me over the years, and after awhile it is always forgotten. If my H were to be in my position, he would have cut them out of his life long ago. He just isn't willing to forgive and forget. Imagine having this quality when faced with an infidelity of a spouse.<P>K - your relationship with your W is a relationship unlike many I have seen, including mine. Sex is such a huge priority for my H and so many other men, that I would have a hard time believing that it would only constitute 10% of a happy healthy marriage. Not to sound crass, but your wife is a lucky woman. If I am not in the mood to have sex with my H, I am automatically unattracted to him, don't love him, think he is inadequate, and MUST be thinking about another man. Let's just say this ruins MORE than 10% of our marriage. I'm glad this is not the case for you...

Just a quick note because I'm at work and can't post a lot right now, but will get back to your individual posts later.<P>For those who feel the need to "attack" what I'm saying: and really, I don't feel very attacked, rather I feel kind of energized, and it makes me think. I'm a pretty strong person and can take it. So thank you for making me think. <P>For those who understand: THANK YOU for your kind words and wisdom. I'm moved beyond words by the support. You also make me think, and I think I'm on the right track.<P>For all of you. My marriage is over. My h is still with his ow, to be honest. She wasn't the first either. I never forgot the first one. EVER. That's where I'm coming from.<P>EB <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Monen:<BR><B>......I still have friends from 6th grade, that have done some crappy things to me over the years, and after awhile it is always forgotten. If my H were to be in my position, he would have cut them out of his life long ago. He just isn't willing to forgive and forget. Imagine having this quality when faced with an infidelity of a spouse.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>See this quote makes me think of myself, as a matter of fact I have posted similar thoughts on these boards. I, like your husband has always simply cut people out of my life that did things that I felt were too much to forgive, now I find myself working on forgiving a pain that is beyond description. I don't know if I can, I don't know if I can ever really make my marriage work, but I don't think I could ever live with myself without first attempting to try. I'm sure my W sometimes feels as you do, I know that I do, but I'm giving our situation 2 years of trying, if after two years we are still in this situation or feeling like this, then I will part, I refuse to go years and years in a situation where I am trying to rebuild a marriage, at some point is no longer rebuilding, but torture.

Dear EB,<P>I am brand spanking new to this. I started plan A before I had any clue this site even existed. I did it because I put myself in hers shoes and realized what a heel I had been and still had some hope for the marriage but also I did it to prepare myself to be alone and to be better person the next time around. What was amazing is that when I started taking care of myself instead of LBing, I saw a spark which encouraged me to meet her ENs. I have been to the brink of hopelessness as little as a week ago. Today, I consider this a success, not because everything is rosy, but because we both are working toward a return to intimacy. I think I am fortunate that the message sunk into my thick skull before it was too far gone. My take on plan A is that it is what you do as long as you are willing to do it. When you you feel it isn't worth it anymore, Plan B is a one-time shot that you fire and then move on if it doesn't hit.

EB:<P>You are obviously very wounded and just recently I might add, in regards to another A for your H.<P>It is also obvious that you did not change any of your situations or habits that may have been causes for the other A. Therefore, you and your H left the door wide open for another A.<P>With your hardened cold attitude you have taught your H how to treat you.<P>I am sorry if you are in pain. Alot of us are and we struggle day by day. Most of us have chosen to post here in an effort to share that pain and eventually get to a point of feeling secure enough to share very intimate details and ask for help and support. <P>Your post did seem very volatile and you also have learned from lurking here many private, intimate issues regarding others and their relationships. I don't appreciate your attacking others personally. I feel you have no right to do that. The issues that someone has shared with the rest of us are very sensitive and personal. They need our love, understanding and support. Which is what I believe you need too.<P>I think you need counseling. You are far to bitter, angry and hurt and not feeling very positive about you, your H and certainly not any of us.<P>We can all do better, if not for the marriage, then for ourselves. Because, until you can look yourself in the mirror and honestly say, I've done everything I can do...<BR>don't judge or criticize the rest of us for our efforts to rebuild a relationship for whatever our reasons. It's all about comittment, attitude, and self-love. I know, I work on this daily.<P>Best of luck to you,<BR>Cathy

Just a quick note to Catplay,<P>Are you saying I caused my h to cheat on me by my (what you classify as) cold hardened attitude??? I'm cold and hardened why? Because I cannot forget the pain his affairs caused me? That makes ME cold and hardened? And my h? Not his fault because I'm not a person worthy of being faithful to???<P>Somebody please tell me that it isn't the fault of the betrayed that the spouse has an affair. I believe in personal responsibility, and take responsibility for MY actions. I won't take responsibility for his.<P>If you sense I'm being defensive, I am. This is EXACTLY the kind of post that DOES bother me.

Hello all,<P>I cannot BELIEVE I am doing this... and if Jim drops by, jeez, I know I said I wouldn't even lurk... wow, it's embarrassing, but I meant it when I said it! I just can't seem to help myself on dreery, rainy, hot days like today! <P>For what it's worth, EB, I agree with you for the most part. My stbx calls MB Marriage Busters, not Marriage Builders. We, for whatever reason, just couldn't make the concepts work for us. I wish I could have done what they call a Perfect Plan A on him and wooed him home to me. And oh how I wish he could have AT LEAST tried with me. I wish I could have forgotten his five affairs and he could have forgotten my one. (And this, by the way, is where I REALLY agree with you... thirteen years ago were his first three affairs, and you truly NEVER do forget! ) I wish we could have made it. But we didn't. <P>I am dating one man exclusively now (no flames please) and he is the only one since the filing of the divorce. The only thing I can say is that it does feel pretty darned nice to have someone love me without feeling this heavy weight of the HISTORY on my shoulders.<P>I will always have a KIND of love for David, but I no longer have the love that's needed to sustain a marriage. That's sad. That's reality though.<P>I just hope to God that I've learned something to take into my next marriage (and yes,I will get married again because I LOVE BEING MARRIED) so I don't make the same mistakes again.<P>~Sheryl

Okay, I'm going to jump into this one again.<P>I agree with Catplay in a way, and I disagree in a way. NOTHING EXCUSES AN AFFAIR!!! It is purely selfish, and I don't care WHAT a spouse does. Even if it's a revenge affair, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR IT.<P>For you, EB, leaving is probably the best thing that you can do. But PLEASE get some counseling for yourself. I do agree w/Catplay in the sense that your behavior did play a role in putting your marriage in the condition it's in. Don't get me wrong - like I said, that does not justify him having an affair. That was his selfish choice. But if you made the decision to stay with him the first time he cheated, you made the decision to work past that affair. If you held the A over his head and continually threw it back in his face, you did a tremendous amount of damage to the marriage yourself. I'm not trying to attack you - I've had to learn this lesson the hard way. <P>Don't take responsibility for his affairs - no way! But do take responsibility in the role that you played in the condition of your marriage. And if you are leaving him, good luck in moving on.

nb:<P>You know that you're one of my favorite people here---but I'm trying to figure this out:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I wish I could have done what they call a Perfect Plan A on him and wooed him home to me. And oh how I wish he could have AT LEAST tried with me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Then really, I'd take great exception to your husband's definition of "Marriage Busters". What exactly did he follow that failed him in the MB protocol??? Nothing. I can't remember David doing one damn thing to follow "The Four Rules".<P>So, his opinion counts for nothing with me. He didn't do it.<P>Your side I feel for. Because you tried to implement this MB stuff. But you did so without professional help---and you know that it's my opinion that you could have used it. Whether it would have made a difference and saved your marriage---you can never know now.<P>Now you're in a new relationship. With no history of infidelity. Are you going to practice "the Four Rules" if it gets serious?? I bet you do. And I bet you'll be successful. Once again proving that "this stuff works". It's just a whole lot easier to use it beginning on day one of a relationship.

EB, you don't have to use MB principles, that is totally your decision, and if I am someone who attacked you, I didn't intend to. <P>There are a lot of marriage programs that line up very closely to MB. I used MB, I used TORN ASUNDER, DIVORCE BUSTERS, YOUR HUSBAND'S MIDLIFE CRISIS, LOVE LIFE, MENDING BROKEN RELATIONSHIPS, HOW TO GET YOUR LOVER BACK , HOPE FOR THE SEPARATED, LOVE MUST BE TOUGH, the whole MARS/VENUS series among many others. I own a bookstore and was reading nearly one marriage/self-help book a day for a long time--until my counselor advised me that perhaps I should take a break and read some fiction...or humor... .<P>There is no doubt that infidelity creates horrible stress for a marriage. I think a lot of us are saying that from our view point, you can choose to forgive and the wound does heal, a marriage phoenix can rise from the rubble & ashes. That's what I'm planning on, I don't want the old marriage back, I don't want the misery of the last years, I want and believe my marriage will be stronger for the knowledge we have gained.<P>You said <<Yes, I see you as somewhat of a success story, but only time will truly <BR>tell. Did you think you were a success story the last time you got back <BR>together? Or the time before that? Again, I am not trying to be <BR>mean-spirited at all. I respect you and all that you are doing to repair <BR>your marriage.>><P>Hmm, y' missed the part where I said what other people say about my marriage doesn't matter? Oh, you know I'm not that tough. Right here, right now my marriage is a success according to my viewpoint. And to answer, no, several of the times he came home I hoped it would be successful, but it felt (and turned out to be) shaky and/or doomed. That's part of the reason I didn't let him move home this last time when he wanted to, then when I was ready, he had issues with my behavior, so another month went by. The 3 1/2 months he's been home is the longest he's lived here since Aug 98.<P><<Re: 2) The WS can truly turn around and be a full partner of the <BR>marriage. <P>And what happened after that to make him go astray? Or you? I am not <BR>trying to yank your chain here, I'm trying to understand. You did a <BR>"perfect plan a" and he went back to the latest OW. What makes you think <BR>it will be different this time? Honestly.>><P>He only had the one OW. I had the old affair, and the EA during the last separation. The difference is he is giving it his all & has already lasted 8 months, before the difference in him lasted 2-3 weeks and he would talk of leaving. I kept him out of the house Jan-May because I did not believe there could be a true change. I was wrong. I call this a success now, because it is one, and I am not borrowing trouble for the future. We aren't just sliding into this, we're still going to counseling, we're both intentionally meeting each other's needs, we're spending the 15 hours a week together, we're making plans for the future--something he'd refused to do for a long time.<P><<Re: 4) You say you don't have patience. For MB to work, you do need <BR>patience, you need love, you need strength of character, you need to <BR>know who you are and what you've got inside you, AND you need to let <BR>time pass. <P>How much time, would you say? Again, I'm asking sincerely.>><P>You can set an arbitrary time at the end of which you reconsider, like Dr. Harley's recommendations of Plan A 6 months, Plan B 18 months. My H fit right into the stats that the affair breaks down in 6-18 months after discovery. If 2 years makes your hair stand on end, like it did for me, and YOUR HUSBAND'S MIDLIFE CRISIS talks about a 5 year plan you can think of it like a child's teenage years, you don't live through age 12-20 all at once, you go day by day, things change quickly at some times, slowly at others.<P><<Re: Personal success takes 1. Marital success takes 2<P>Totally flies in the face of what Still Praying says. Wonder which one <BR>is right?>><P>I can't pinpoint that part of SP's post. I'm just saying my success as a person does not depend on me being married, it's how I choose to live my life. And although I think one person can keep the marriage viable while the other is, as Suse puts it "insane", a working marriage demands both partners.<P>What it all boils down to for me is there is nothing for me to regret in having done varying intensities of Plan A for 18 months. From a reconciliation view, I'm not so pleased with what I did from Jan to May, but I thought my marriage was over, I was taking steps toward divorce and a life without Guard. <P>But I know without a shadow of a doubt that my H's Plan A at that point brought me back to the point of reconciliation, just as my Plan A to him had created enough good feelings for me within him that he no longer wanted me out of his life--when he had just that opportunity.<P>If he had not done Plan A, or changed his behavior and we had divorced, I believe I would have been ok then as well. True that is supposition...but staying in limbo just was not an option for me anymore. The marriage was an option, as was the divorce, but limbo was not.<P>Everyday that I see Guard wearing his wedding ring as he tells me he loves me and look down and see my rings and I know that I love him is a success for our marriage.

HI, HI, HI <B>K</B>, <P>Just a quick note soas not to infringe on this thread...<P>THANK YOU for your unwavering support! <P>...AND you bet your butt I'll use everything I learned to make my next marriage last!<P>That's all <P>You know I think you're one of the good guys!

Last year when my H left me I found MB almost immediately and started to plan A him. It really worked he thought I was the best woman on earth. Earlier this summer he began to doubt the way I act. I never stopped plan A I kept it up as I wanted it to be a lifestyle change. He started to question me if I was just doing it to be better than OW#1. He has many times asked and made statements to the fact that it was all just a game. I know it wasn't but he seems to think so. So My plan A backfired. I guess my advice is to do what you feel comfortable doing.<P>

wow, I don't know that I CAN keep up and answer each individually, but I do want to say that I'm reading, thinking, and absorbing everything that's written here.<P>Again, thank you.<P>EB

Someone please tell me why it is that someone who has different thoughts, feelings and opinions about the theories and principles of marriagebuilders and how it relates to their own personal situations seem to get attacked on this site. While this is definitely not the only one, I have seen and been involved with other threads that attack when the marriagebuilder principles are not held up to "Holy Grail" status but why this................<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Catplay:<BR><B><BR>It is also obvious that you did not change any of your situations or habits that may have been causes for the other A. Therefore, you and your H left the door wide open for another A.<P>With your hardened cold attitude you have taught your H how to treat you.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That is totally and completely unfair. Why is it that different feelings, emotions, thoughts and opinions can't be expressed if they slightly contradict all that marriagebuilders is supposed to represent? It seems to me that this type of attack would be a major LB if it was done in our own relationships. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>You are far to bitter, angry and hurt and not feeling very positive about you, your H and certainly not any of us.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why would anyone feel any different than this if they are going to be attacked for stating a thought or opinion. I'm sure there are many people out there who share EB's thoughts and feelings, but are afraid to post because of the reaction.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>don't judge or criticize the rest of us for our efforts to rebuild a relationship for whatever our reasons</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Maybe I missed it somewhere along this thread, but I didn't see this happening. I saw an expression of what I believe many people see on this site everyday, which is why we get the "Are there any success stories out there" threads started from time to time. What I have seen however is this exact thing being done to those who come to points in their lives that they feel they need to move on from their relationships or who have the audacity to question some of the principles on this site...........that is wrong!!<P>EB, you are a grown woman and I'm sure you don't need anybody defending you, but I too often have the same feelings and thoughts that you do and I don't think it is right to be attacked for posting those thoughts. <P>You know what is best for you. Good Luck in whatever it is you decide for you.

Yes, a lot of people never rebuild their marriages. EB, that is very true. But if YOU want to (and that is totally up to you), I believe you can.<P>You have to be honest with yourself. Do you really want a healthy, happy marriage with this person, or do you just want revenge? Not making any personal judgements, but I think that a lot of us BS fall into that trap.<P>You have to be very very honest about what you have done that contributed to the affair, contributed to the marriage turning ugly. Even if you are going ahead with the divorce, please do this. Because if you haven't learned from your mistakes (and perhaps you really have, I'm not making a judgement about you) you will probably repeat them with whoever comes along next.<P>The MB principles are gold. They are the guidelines of a perfect union, IMHO. With whoever you end up with. Affair or no. They are the Rules of How to Be and Have the Perfect Mate. The Golden Rule, really.<P>Does it mean you can't do whatever you want whenever you want? Uh-huh. Yes, you will not be able to LB, vent angry feelings, etc. Hello, that's life. If you are never willing to protect your spouse from your angry outbursts, you are hurting him just as he hurt you with his affair. You have a destructive habit, and two wrongs do not a right make. <P>You say you are not willing to protect your spouse from these angry outbursts. Angry outbursts are unhealthy and only hurt people. To me, that sounds like a wife-beater saying he has these urges to lash out violently but is unwilling to curb them. And if he "has" to control them for the rest of his life, that's not a marriage.<P>IMO, a BS is in a particularly strange position, of wanting to make the marriage work, and yet not wanting to. This is why we fail.<P>We want to get our spouses back, want them to love us again. But not if it means admitting how we were wrong. Truly adopting the MB principles means being really honest, going "Oh, wow, I totally do that, all the time. I can see how that was hurting you, and I'm so sorry. I'm going to change that behavior, today, forever. I will not hurt you anymore. No matter what. No matter how I feel."<P>But as BS, we really don't want to do that. You see, we are the Wronged One. We cling to our status as the Great Innocent Hurt spouse, we refuse to give it up and take responsibility for what we did wrong, and change our ways.<P>Every step along the way, all through Plan A & B, we LB like crazy. BSs are experts at LBing. It goes with the territory. And then we justify it - we get very good at justifying it. <P>If our spouses had a digital window to our Love Bank accounts printed on their foreheads, perhaps we'd be more sensitive - what do you think? Every time we LBed we'd see the reading go down a couple of points, and every time we met an EN or avoided an LB (even when it's very difficult, which it sometimes is), we'd see the reading go up a couple of points. Wouldn't that be great?<P>Personally, I have to say my H & I are a success story. He cheated (PA only), yet was still very much in love with me. I was going to stay anyway, but my love for him was severely threatened. By carefully following the Four Rules (we read "Surviving the Affair" together), our marriage soared to new heights in very little time.<P>I say success because we are: <P>Teachable and working on whatever problems arise, when they arise. <BR>Very much in Love.<BR>Very happy together.<BR>Members of a wonderful, cherished family.<BR>Forgiving, and forgiven.<BR>Trusting, and trusted.<BR>Trying to understand better my part in the affair.<BR>Striving to meet each other's ENs.<BR>Committed to one another.<BR>Following (and loving) the Rules of Protection, Care, Honesty, and Time.<P>The Affair still hurts. But so does a lot of things in life. It *will* diminish to a manageable size. This is certain.<P>Crazy - a question: why is it so bad to be trying to be better than the OW? I didn't follow you there. You say your Plan A has backfired because your spouse is on to you. I don't get it. Once the novelty of the A wears off, and the OW starts to become a b****, trust me, he's going to *want* someone better than the OW. I'd say you are looking better and better all the time. Don't give up yet.<p>[This message has been edited by WorthItForEternity (edited August 29, 2000).]

Boy, has this thread generated a tremendous amount of response in a hurry!! I can't keep up, and will probably spend some time later reviewing the individual posts and thoughts.<P>energizer_bunny,<BR>A couple of pages ago you mentioned something that I said regarding co-operation. To clarify, what I mean is that it only takes one spouse to begin the process of turning things around, specifically plan "A" concepts and leading the spouse back to intimacy, but ultimately both have to be interested in saving the marriage.<P>Also, it's unfortunate to hear that your's is over. You need to do what makes you happy in life. You obviously know better than us what kind of person he is, and whether or not he would ever be trustworthy again.<P>As for flaming you, I guess I was a little taken back by the blanket statements that I perceived you making. I was trying to get you to ask yourself some questions, and of course I had no idea of who you are or what you've been through or tried.<P>Now, so that I can get flamed. I firmly believe that other than parent/child parent/stepchild sexual abuse, and possibly a marriage that was started because of a pregnency instead of love, every marriage can be saved.<P>That is of, course keeping something in mind: That the spouse that wants to save the marriage does what is necessary in the beginning. If it means forgiving, then they must forgive. If it means changing into a better person, then they must change.<P>I am guilty of not strictly sticking to plan "A". The fact that we are still where we are, at least in my eyes, has nothing to do with the material. The program isn't failing me, I am failing the program.

EB:<P>I am not blaming you for your H's decisions to have affairs. This is not your fault!<BR>I am saying with your attitude so cold and hard at this time, I don't believe you will believe any thing or any one can help you.<P>I am most certainly defending people on this site and their integrity. I fully believe that no one has the right to sign on here after reading all of this very personal information and judging those of us who are so vunerable and yet so willingly shared their "story" in hopes of healing from their pain and moving forward knowing they have done all they can do...<P>Cathy

I, too, often doubt that the MB principles are effective. I have been in Plan A for 18 months - I do not generally find it that difficult, because I feel "Plan A - ish" toward him, at least most of the time. I love my H, and I expect that I always will. There is no need for Plan B. But I do not think it would make much difference what I did or didn't do. His anger at me has certainly not diminished - I often think he is trying to get me to hate him. Every once in awhile he will send me a series of angry email messages telling me how stupid I am - and then they will cease for awhile. Unlike the vast majority of affairs that started on the internet, his affair seems to still be going strong. I am not at all convinced that the BS's behavior really has all that much effect one way or the other.