I'm shaking as I write this. Jo was right, my H took Ow in our camper on a 4 day trip.<BR>I found her hair in the shower. He of course was careful to come home and do all the cleanup while I was at work.<P>I just can't handle this. It seems like the ultimate betrayal and invasion of my space and I specifically told him I was not ready for him to take our camper with OW and how much it would hurt. I am wanting to call her and say how low and disrespectfull it was of her and that she is slime. I got caller ID finally and see she called here 2 times today too. I am ready to kick him out. I want to call him at work and ask when he is moving. I want to confront him with this. I want to tell him to move out NOW. I want to tell him to quit stalling on getting an apartment or I will move his stuff out. I am tired of plan A and getting less and less respect. I tam even thinking of plan B. How can he be such a jerk? I am sick of his denials, now they are just lies. I want her to know I know. Help stop me before I do something I will regret.<BR>Lora<p>[This message has been edited by Lora (edited August 30, 2000).]

((((((((((Lora))))))))))<P>I'm so sorry you are going through this hell.. <BR>I understand you want let her know you know this.. but probably she doesn't care. Why did she do this?? Because your H made her feel ok to do this. I'm not taking side of OW and your H, and I know OW is totally low to go after MM, she's just naive to believe whatever your H said to her.<BR>I wanted to talk to OW... I e-mailed her twice but got no response. I think she didn't care because my H was telling her anything to feel her good..<BR>So please don't contact her.. Don't give her that much power.. she doesn't deserve it! I know you are extremely hurt and right now don't know what to do.. Just try to calm yourself down now. I'm sure someone will respond you soon so hang in there.<BR>Are you ready to do Plan B?? Don't decide when you are in rage.<BR>Meg<p>[This message has been edited by MF (edited August 30, 2000).]

Lora-<BR>Oh my gosh! I am so sorry, this is so despicable. <P>But take a deep breath. Think. How long have you been on Plan A? Is the relationship have any positives coming from it? Any room for hope that your efforts have not been in vain?<P>Are you really ready to see him walk out the door and know that it is the last time. He may turn around after the A ends, if it does, then what? If he seeks comfort, will you take him back? Or make him sweat it? <P>Do take the upper hand. You make the choice. Don't be a target any more. Stand up for your rights and give him your true boundries. If he cannot do it, then decide. YOU do it. You can do what needs doing. You have the strength. And you have shared it with so many others! <P>I'll pray for you.

Meg, thanks for the fast response. Well, my hands are tied because I will not even see him till Saturday, so Maybe I will cool down by then, You are right that it is my H who has so little respect for me. But it makes me so angry that he is probably feeding her a bunch of lies and getting away with it with her too.<P>Burned spouse, I have been in plan A for 10 months now. Proably doing a good job with it the last 6. But I have not seen much progress other than he first wanted out immediatly and now says he wants to move out for a trial seperation. Wow, big steps huh?<BR>This affair is been going on for close to 2 years with him in denail that they are more tahn friends so I don't even know if we can consider it out in the open. <P>I talked to my consler and I will plan to talk to him on Sat and tell him it is time for him to move out now. That I can not take his lack of respect for me and we need to seperate. Should I also tell him I know he took OW? Man that makes me mad! Have I said that already?<BR>Lora<P>

Been there, too, Lora. Since nothing has been filed and it is almost 11 months since "trial seperation" started, I should quit. Plan A, I hope will have some effect, though I have only begun when I first joined this bb. <P>I totally know that "No Respect" treatment. I could NOT believe this person was capable of doing this either, lora! I got that sick feeling all over again reading your post...it hits too close.<BR>I found comfort with her family as well as mine and will continue plan A for sometime yet. <P>Making him leave would also force this into the open more. Others are not too naive to figure it out. Remember what Harley says about exposure.<BR>rrunrr<BR>

RRunRR,<BR>I think I was in a little denial myself, kept thinking that he was not that good of a lier, maybe he really did think they were just friends. But I asked him outright if he was taking OW camping and he said NO. Then I appoligized!!!!! and said I was not ready for him to use the camper with another woman and he again said he was going alone. GRRRRRR<BR>Lora

Lora,<BR>My H did this kind of things very recently. I used to ask him point blanc if he was going to see OW and he said "probably". That made me really annoyed!! IF he was going to why he couldn't admit that??<BR>I think the reason is he didn't want to hurt me(and this goes to your H too). But of course I think: if he knows it will hurt me then why doesn't he STOP??<P>I really don't know if you should tell your H about this. But myself, I'm very honest(too honest) and can't hide how I feel so I always tell him. But at the end I realized he would never be able to be honest with me. So I gave up for now. Now I'm not in touch with him.<P>Anyway.. hope you feel better soon, and let us know what you are going to do.<BR>Hang in there!!<BR>Meg<BR>

GOsh!! You are stronger than me!<P>I am too much of a fighter (which probably explains the situation that I am in now!) As meek and mild as I look, that would have pushed me right over the edge into frontier justice.<P>I would have called OW and nailed her skanky A to the ground--to show her that she was messin with my man and who does she think she is? what right does she think she have to come between man and wife? and leave her nasty hair in my shower and go campin while I get to stay home and wonder what's going on and blah blah blah.<P>Anyways, I am glad that you have a level head on your shoulders. You hang tough. Dang!! I feel like swearing for you!!<P>

YIKES! That is exactly how I caught my H having his A---hair in the shower! It was in our home, though, not a camper. I know exactly how you feel about the invasion of space and disrespect. My H slept with OW in quite a few different rooms of our home (our dream home that we just built last year) and it makes me sick to think about it.<P>Meg, I am right with you and the lying thing. My H lies consistently to me, so much that I question absolutely everything he tells me. He's lied about a couple of business trips, he's lied about where he is, he's lied about so much it is absolutely pathetic. Why do I put up with it? I sometimes don't know. I just simply tell him that I know he's not being truthful and leave it at that. That is very, very hard to do, though. I'm not sure how I'll trust him again, but I'll need to learn to.<P>My heart goes out to all of you!

Lora,<BR>Hi there! Long time no post, I know. I just logged in to see how everyone was and your post stopped me cold. The reason I havn't posted in a while is because I confronted the OW about 3 weeks ago!!! I caught H in another lie and decided to go right to the horse's mouth....or should I say cow... I flat out asked her if she was sleeping with my husband...I let her know that he has told me countless times that there is no romance, I was sure to let her know that he has told me that he would never leave me, etc...I basicly let her know that I love my husband and my family and I need to know if I'm not the only one making love to him. (I was very calm, even started crying at one point...made sure I was letting HER know what goes on in our home just in case he's tried to pull any "unhappy marriage" BS on her) Anyway, she had little to say...said that she was not trying to take away my husband. She basicly just listened to me. <BR>We had another conversation the next day which was much more heated, I told her to stay away from my husband, that he wants to stay with his family and she doesn't have any place in our lives...she got ugly and at one point told me she was pregnant with his baby. (She later said that she was just trying to get me upset...) I let my husband know exactly what she said and how disgsting she is. I swear to you I will never understand what the attraction is with this woman. She can't possibly look good enough to compensate for her lack of decency. But then, who has ever heard of a decent OW???<BR>The moral of my LONG story is that she and my husband havn't spoken to each other since and she has had herself put on a different shift. <BR>I believe if I HAD NOT confronted her that I would still be in complete hell. <BR>I know I am in the minority in this advice, but I feel much better having spoken up. Especially since I got to tell her that my husband and I are in love and making love and that we aren't going ANYWHERE.<BR>I'll tell you, I was close to plan B myself, but having spoken to that pit viper directly, I'll be damned if I give up my life to someone like her. She is dog meat. <BR>GOod luck to you. <BR>Jen

First, Lora, I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I know that you will find the best possible advice on this board. I will pray for you.<P>Second, Bernzini, you crack me up! Reading your post just made me laugh out loud. Sometimes, even when it hurts, you just have to see the humor in things, otherwise you could just go crazy, huh?<P>Love and prayers,<BR>KristyAnn

Lora...<P>It's time...<BR>...Write the Plan B letter...<BR>...we'll all help in your drafting...<BR>...check the links in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000177.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 101 (2nd ed.)</A>.<P>Think it through...<BR>...don't make the decision yet...<BR>...but get your thoughts together.<P>Catch your breath...<BR>...<BR>Keep the patience for a while longer...<P> <P>Jim

MF,<BR>I think they might lie about the color of the sky if they thought it involved OW. I think what I will do is tell him on Saturday when I see him that I know she was in the trailer and I feel hurt and humiliated by it and I never thought he would be so disrespectful to me. I still don't know how to say about him moving out tho.<P>Berzini, thanKs for the laughs. I am swearing too. I hope their ears are burning and a few more sensitive parts too.<P>Hurtingil, don't they ever clean up after themselves? I am sorry you have had to deal with this too. I was on vacation and am not so sure that they wern't in this house too. YUCK!<BR>Jen,<BR> I hope it works out for you. Keep your eyes open though OK? There have certainly been others here who have done the tough love approach and had it work for them. Makes me wonder if I should have been more agressive in the begining before they were this deaply involved. I do think I have done the best that I can.<BR>KristYann, Thanks for the thoughts.<P>Jim, Yes I think I will start composing, but if he left the house I think I could plan A for awhile longer, but maybe plan B would be a better bet.<BR>Lora

Lora:<P>I'm so sorry your H has done this to you...it was so disrepectful...to bring OW into what basically is yours...filled with your personal things...what was he thinking...or was he thinking at all. I have to feel he wasn't thinking...just lost in the affair "fog" and unable to make good decisions or decide what is appropriate behavior.<P>I've often said that an ongoing affair is impossible to Plan A against. I believe Plan A will work if the affair is waning but will have little effect in the midst of a full blown affair. Sometimes it will have the opposite effect of continuing the affair as it keeps the H fence sitting longer.<P>So let him go to OW if he wants...and I'm not sure that he will...continue to Plan A as long as you can...Plan B is always there if you need it but maybe you can start getting your letter together. <P>To me if obvious that your H has stayed at home because he wants to...now he will be forced to deal with OW on a regular basis and that probably is not what he wants.<BR>If it was he would have left long ago.<P>I know this is hard, but sometimes it is for the best...the only way to force the problem to a solution.<P>Buffy<BR> <P>

Oh, Lora! I'm mad for you, too!!!<P>Ooooooooooh!!!! What would I do it some OW had been in OUR camper? Well, for starters, I would have that sucker DISINFECTED and sold in a heartbeat and the money socked away in my own personal savings account until my H came to his senses, at which point, MAYBE we would buy a brand new one--preferably a 5th wheel with 2 slideouts. If he didn't come to his senses, then I would have a lil' nestegg for starting my new life.<P>I would take the sheets, towels, etc. out of the camper and have a big ol' bonfire. First, I would probably tie the sheets up into knots to look like H and OW and burn them in effigy. <P>No kidding, Lora, I don't blame you for being fed up. I strongly suspect that my H screwed the STD Tramp in our customized van that we used to have. Thank goodness that we no longer have it, or I would be tempted to park it in gear with a rock on the gas pedal on top of a cliff.<P>Anyway, I guess what I would do would be huge lovebusters, so don't do it.<P>Just calm yourself down, write a nice Plan B letter, and give it to your H when you're calm.

Lora,<P>What happened to his packed up boxes? When I read your post about his camping trip, I thought uh-oh!, she's (OW) going with him!<P>My H lied to me and took OW to places and things that only I should have gone. So humiliating, and disrespectful, still can't believe some of the things he did with her.<P>The best advice I got, during those times when I just wanted to lambast her for all she was worth, was from my sister. She told me not to feed the OW by calling her, b/c they would talk about me and he would feel sorry for her, and in the long run I would be made to look like the badie.<P>She was exactly right! Eventually though I did talk to her, several times and I was as sweet as honey, and the last time I talked to her the only thing I said to her was " OW, do me a big favor,and she said, What? I said "Leave my H alone" (not so sweet as honey),and she said ok. End of that, I haven't talked to her since, nor has my H that I know of.<P>I know all of our circumstances are different, and some don't turn out like others. But, if you feel like you need to talk to her, do it! What can it hurt at this point. Who will you be disrespecting?<BR>If you do talk to her, stay cool and sweet.<P>Then again, you have to ask yourself if she's worth your time and worry. Also, H will side with OW for sure at this time.<P>I know your hands are tied and this is so hard to deal with. But, I do feel like you should very blatantly state your feelings to him and let him know you will not be treated with such disrespect, that if he wants her, fine, just let you go so you can get on with your life! I know this sounds so ultimatum, but, you cannot allow him to treat you this way. It only brings you down and does more damage to your self-esteem.<P>I know how you feel and I share your grief.<P>I'm thinking of you and hoping for you. Stay strong!<P>Cathy

Oh Lora,<P>My heart goes out to you.<P>How could he?!! To be precise, "How could they?!!". All BS have more tragedies and deceit and horrific memories than we can stomach together.<P>I feel the pain as if it is my own. They are disgraceful, they are inhuman. But see the reality and be strong that you are the one with the best judgement here - that your WS and OW will and cannot tell you the truth. Do not approach OW - I would rather get a P.I. on her to know my enemy.<P>You must be tired from all that pain. Do yourself a favour, rest well. Try.

And now you know for sure.<P>Sometimes knowing is better than not knowing.<P>I'm with Jim on this one. It's Plan B time. Right now your H is having your cake and eating it too. I know you a little bit, Lora, and I don't know that you could cope in Plan A a whole lot longer, knowing now as you do. <P>He WANTED you to find out. He THINKS he didn't, but he left just enough evidence so you would.<P>So let him have what he thinks he wants. Let him know that you love him; do the whole plan B thing, but yes, it's Plan B time.<P>Enough already.

Lora,<BR>I'm mad for you, like all the others.<P>Talking to the OW didn't help me, she told me she didn't date married men--this was a year after their affair had started and right as it resumed. I have assumed since she didn't date, all she did was ****. The only thing I told her that might have made a difference was that my H had never asked me for a divorce or served me papers. That surprised her...and that was what she pushed him for.<P>I think this would be a good time for B for you, simply because you have fresh anger to give you the energy not to call or contact him. And, if he has any guilt, it will be high at this time.<P>I'm so sorry.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Lora}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

Lora,<BR>My blood is boiling for you, too!<P>Would the trailer make a good apartment?<P>Drive it to the closest State Park, leave it their and give him Plan B letter with directions to his new home.<P>If you have that nasty hair, only touch it with latex gloves, of course, tape it a note saying "I know", and leave that for him, too.<P>Channel that anger into bold action to show your strength and resolve!