I need advice from whoever has any tips or suggestions, either books, online, personal experience, doesn't matter.<P>Right now, after 2 months of separation, I need to learn how to have a productive conversation with my wife again. I know, it should come natural. I feel that this is the best way for me to start fulfilling her love tank, and possibley open up her feelings and emotions to me again. This was obviously a problem in our marriage. What's Harley say, 15 hours of conversation a week?<P>Of course, the problem is that she's emotionally withdrawn, so it's hard to get her to talk, and I sure don't want someone else to step in right now and fix that for me!! Conversation leads directly to emotions, right ladies?<P>I think I clam up or something when we are together, almost like a performance issue. Either that, or I can't stand the silence, so I start yappin'. And when I start yappin' I ask alot of questions without waiting for answers, must be a nervous thing. I also realize that listening to a man has a tendency to bore a woman. I know to ask alot of questions, get details, but what about when she gives short direct answers. Or when I ask how it makes her feel, I get a "you know." If I tell her that I don't know, I'm afraid she'll come back with a "Well, if you cared about me, you'd know." Man, this is tough.<P>Ladies, if you were in her situation, would you find it easier to open up over the phone? Is it dumb to ask what you're favorite song is right now? Who's the artist? Have you heard any of their/his/her other songs? When's the last time you saw so and so? And how is she? Is she still seeing what's his face? Is she happy with him? Does she know that you decided to walk out of my life thinking only of yourself? How's she feel about you throwing away our marriage? Wait, I think I went in the wrong direction there..... Anyway, is there actually anything that I could ask her that she would find absolutely stupid, I mean in terms of general conversation? Like about sales and stuff? If your H was trying to communicate and asked you something stupid, would he at least get an "A" for effort?<P>For some reason, I can be a chatty-Cathy on the phone, but clam up in person. For instance, last night my niece came over so I could look at her car and do some of the maintenance this weekend. She has always been tough for anyone to talk to, not just me. Saturday, I talked to her on the phone for over an hour, alot of it was trying to be compassionate as her parents are also going through what we are, but 15 minutes after she got her, I clammed. I ended up talking to her for almost 2 hours, can't even really remember about what. Maybe I need some real-life practice. Maybe I'll call my step-daughter and see if she can come over and talk. And my sister-in-law. I'll tell 'em what I'm tryin' to accomplish, and I'm sure they'd be glad to help.<P>Thanks for at least reading my stupid post.<P>Hey, wait a minute, I know, where's that 900# I had, they seem to like to talk. <BR>

Dang.<BR>Hit submit, then stop. Got 2 topics. Sorry 'bout that.<BR>Newbie.

ROFL..don't mean to laugh..I know your serious about what to talk to her about..<BR>and I think thats wonderful..<P>okay if you really want to know her favorite group/song/color/food whatever...ask her..<P>I am assuming from your other posts your step-kids are older? so don't really ask how they are doing..(you can ask them yourself)<BR>if you talk to them..talk to them about themselves how they are doing..and such and don't ask them if they have talked to their mom..(they don't need to be drug into the middle, or made to feel like you are "pumping them for information")<P>ask her about her job..it's okay to ask about friends..and how they are doing..don't ask if they know anything about whats going on..because if they are her friends..they probably do..so it would be a mute question..<P>If you read a book (something other than <BR>working on the marriage)that you feel she may enjoy talk about that..if she reads..ask her about whatever it is she's reading.<P>if she's talked to you about a problem on the job..or a person on the job thats a problem..<BR>ask her how thats going..and if the problem has been resolved..<P>if she has anything she enjoys doing..painting, biking, exercise, whatever..<BR>ask her how's that going..and if she is still doing it..cause you know how much she enjoys it..<P>if she is taking classes..ask her about her<BR>classes..how does she like them..how are her teachers..<P>If she's started a new job..ask her how she likes it..is it going ok, does she like her boss..if you know she's gone out w/ friends<BR>ask her if she had fun..not necessarily ask so who all went..where did you go..(those will sound like your trying to keep tabs on her right now, and would be a def. LB!!!)<P>if you ran into a mutual friend..let her know<BR>you seen them, and how they are doing..<P>what things would you like her to ask you???<P>Hope those help...<BR>

Harley says 15 hours of quality time...not 15 hours of non-stop chat...<P>Relax.<P>You've got some good suggestions already. One other thought...OK, two. First, silence isn;t deadly. Some folks panic and rush to fill every silence. Don't worry if there are pauses; its OK. Secondly, don;t ask yes/no questions...Not "Was your class OK?" but "tell me about your class."<P>One other idea...think back to your past with her. What did ya;ll like to do together when you dated? What interests did you share? Start doing some of that stuff together. For example...We started going to plays again...leads to talking about the play you just saw; reminds me of the one was saw back when; I heard about a great one we might want to check out...<P>Good luck--<P>Kathi

Kathi, <BR>Notice that I spelled Cathy with a "C", I didn't want to offend you. <P>ThornedRose, <BR>Thanx for laughing at me. Uh, I mean "with" me.<P>So I relax, ask about almost anything, and don't structure a question in such a way that leads to a short answer. And silence is golden.<P>But don't you guys talk about, well, nothing? When you're all together, don't your conversations 'kinda go around in circles? Doesn't every topic bleed into another with no real connection? Maybe that's why I'm confused and scared. I want to be able to have a conversation like a woman, and I don't think it's possible. If I think about more than 2 things, I get lost. I'm afraid that if she starts talking, she'll be able to tell by the blank look on my face that I have no idea what she's saying! I'll just keep eye contact, utter sounds like uh-huh, hmm, ask "and then what?", and keep asking for more details. And I won't try to fix any of her problems. <P>Jeeze.<P>No wonder the dog is actually man's best friend.

Not quantity, quality, if I may.<P>I am a rare girl who does not really like to talk--unless it's about something important.<P>The old boy, on the other hand, talks politics, international intrigue, and military tactics and strategies while I listen and politely nod and say "Uh-huh, I see." Sometimes I can't get him to shut up about world affairs. He goes on for hours.<P>But on the other hand, when I want to talk about personal stuff, relationship-wise, he gets upset so easily. And he clams up.<P>When a girl REALLY needs to talk about something, it is something that is from deep in the heart, and it has to be heard. Or else. But that's just me.<P>That's usually at an inopportune time, too, when something needs to be talked about. Like when "The Game" is on, or he needs to work on the car or has to practice his jujitsu in the garage. I would always get an irritated "Do we have to talk about this right now?!" If it was a VERY bad moment, I would get "What are you whining about this time?" So. There you go.<P>Just let her know that you WANT to talk. Tell her that whenever she NEEDS to talk, you will listen. Start a casual conversation by saying "How was your day?" It shows you care. <P>She will open up to you if she know that you care about her, in time.<P>When she does share with you, make sure that she knows that her thoughts and feelings are important to you. Listen intently. (Listening is the most important part of conversation.)<P>If you really need a "method," I was looking through Phil McGraw's book "Relationship Rescue" which has some prescribed conversations that help people open up to one another and share their secrets with one another. Take a look at that if you are still at a loss.<P>(I would be one that would have to be forced to have a "prescribed conversation," but the topics were a good idea. And looking at each other and listening intently while the other talks would seem to be very valuable in learning to communicate as a couple)

NP..glad we could actually share a laugh <P>I love politics..and Religious topics too...<P>But then I am a "chatty" person..conversation to me is like #1 EN..<P>Do you have a problem talking w/ men friends?? Do you like the races? Football?<BR>baseball? Not all men do..and not all women<BR>do but if it's something you have a common<BR>interest in..you talk about it right??<P>Women are pretty much the same way..we can<BR>talk about just about anything and everything..ie: if there is a peticular<BR>politian you like..you can discuss why you like them...or one that you don't like..then why you don't like them...it's okay..it's the little conversations like these things that allow them to get to know you better..ask her<BR>which presidential candidate she likes better, and why..<P>if there is a special bible verse or something the Lord has shown you in scripture<BR>share it with her..ie..ya know I was reading in Deut. 7 last week and you know where it talks about how the Isrealites were wondering in the desert for 40 yrs..no clear direction<BR>on where they were going..until they looked at God..and said where do we go from here??<BR>I realized that many times in life we tend to get lost in the desert like they did..like taking the wrong job, or knowing the Lord was saying one thing but we tend to overlook that at times..or whatever..) If the Lord shows you something..thats something you should want to share w/ her..(allows her to see the spiritual leader) another one of my big EN..<BR>someone to share with what the Lord is teaching me...and knowing how they are growing spiritually..I talk to my friends like that all the time both men and women..it's just that bond we share that we can do that..not to be preachy..but to really share...and ask questions..I try and talk to my husband about things like that and get that stare as "what the *** are you talking about?" <P>If you don't understand something she's saying..wait till shes done explaining..then<BR>go back and say..okay..is this what you mean<BR>when you say...let her know your really listening and TRYING to understand...when she's done talking don't be afraid to ask her questions about things you don't understand..<BR>ask her if she can rephrase it so that you <BR>can understand..don't make her think you understand something she's saying if you don't have a clue..but don't shut her off when she trys to help you gain that clue..<BR>be teachable as well..<P>

Still Praying:<P>You've given me a good laugh tonight. To think that there is a man who would care so much about having conversation with a woman. Bless your heart. <P>Conversation would not be a high EN for me, but it is something that I have complained to my H about often. My H could have a genuine talk with a post, so I've often wondered why he finds me so boring that he can't talk to me at all. It is of course, making the effort that matters, not the conversation. He only tries when he sees I'm mad. So just keep trying...the effort is noted if not acknowledged or encouraged and eventually the effort will begin to be returned and become more natural. <P>Make no mistake, some of women's talk is just prattle...even to us...but we do it because we need each other to listen when it's our turn to talk and get comfort.<BR>These are the rules...listen with an open ear...not that half-hearted one-ear business (we know you're not paying attention)...don't try to solve things...be on our side (in other words don't try to be the devil's advocate here)...if it's not a good time, say so, but provide a definite new time that will be ok...don't just put us off...don't hurry us (things do need to be explained)...realize that woman do have opinions and ideas on many subjects...most men just never ask enough questions to find out what.<P>Good luck, and keep up the good work...but don't sweat it so much...talking ain't everything...a little action is also nice.<P>Buffy <BR>

Hi,<P>Women generally like to talk to get their emotions off their chest. Men, on the other hand, like to find solutions, and often offer solutions if the wife gripes about some problem at work or with the neighbours.<P>Women generally just want you to agree with them to give them that moral support, and not make them feel petty.<P>Women generally use conversation as a form of relaxation as well as to find out the latest trends in the marketplace that is relevant to their lives.<P>Women who can talk and laugh easily are blessed.<P>Women whose husbands can learn the art of connecting through conversation with them are indeed loved beyond the physical, they are loved for their souls.<P>In a nutshell, communication with a woman is to be her real friend - to show that you Listen Intently, to give support, to let her speak her mind, to give her interesting (to her) bits of information, to reveal more of yourself to her, to make her laugh, to let her cry when she needs it, ..., you know your wife best.<P>The situation we are in has made talking more difficult. I would clam up when my WS calls or talks in person because I do not want to connect as yet. But, my Achilles Heel is my baby, anything about Baby brings a smile to my face, a twinkle in my eye... So what is the irresistible topic for your wife?<P>Keep connecting!

Weep,<BR>You've given me some more insight, of course talking about her grandchildren peaks her interest.<P>Buffy,<BR>Yeah, I'm glad I could bring a little humor into everyone's night. What good is life if we can't laugh a little? I don't think that conversation is a top EN for her either, but probably in the top 3, (still haven't exactly figured her list out yet), but I feel that it is very important to try and communicate with her on a more intimate level to get things headed in the right direction.<P>Weep, <BR>How long have you been in this situation, and does WS's trying to get you to communicate actually annoy you? I don't want that either.<P>Oh, and for her list, this is how I thought it used to be:<BR>1. My wants<BR>2. My needs<BR>3. My desires<BR>4. Making sure everyone else gave me what I want<BR>5. Whatever she had time leftover for to give herself<P>Funny how things change when you see the light.<P><BR>Is it me, or is this whole thing a psychological game of strategy?<p>[This message has been edited by Still Praying (edited August 31, 2000).]

Eeeek, I just posted on the "double post." Sorry about that, but maybe you'll see it anyway . . .

Hi...I just had to respond. My H tends to be clueless...and silent. He is a good man, even tempered, extremely intelligent, generous, loves recreation, but having a coversation with him about anything except maybe his recreational pursuits is like pulling teeth.<P>However, if you really feel like you were the guy that thought her list would be all about you, then what you really may be asking is how to make your W feel loved.<P>Conversation is a great way and you have some great suggestions.<P>I would add that you need to check your tonal quality and your facial expression. If you sound strained or looked pained, it is counter productive.<P>To be honest, it would almost be weird if my H became a Chatty Cathy. What I like is when he looks relaxed when he is with me and when he looks at me and smiles. Then silence is golden, so to speak.<P>Good luck!

To weep or the other women in general:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by weep:<BR><B>Women generally like to talk to get their emotions off their chest. Men, on the other hand, like to find solutions, and often offer solutions if the wife gripes about some problem at work or with the neighbours.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is an issue that bothered my wife enormously; my insistence on providing "solutions" to her problems (the engineer in me, unfortunately). <P>I've read enough to understand what you're saying about women just wanting men to listen to their problems and not try and resolve them. But reading just raised more questions and now I'm curious.<P>So, how do women resolve their problems? <P>Just talking, without expecting feedback, won't resolve many issues. If they're not open to advice from others (men or women) do they simply want to live with the problem? Hope it will go away by itself? Only try to come up with their own solutions? <P>My wife knows she's a conflict avoider and would probably choose to either live with a problem or hope it would just go away.<P>How do other women feel?<P><BR>

FaithHopeLove,<P>I have radically changed the tone of my voice when I talk to her on the phone, very calm and compassionate, I have a very deep voice that I feel can be a monotone, and I have tried to raise the pitch and use varying pitches in conversation. Of course this is easier on the phone. I have a tendency to not show much facial expression, and am usually unlikely to smile. Again, these things all need to change so that I can convey the love that is within me. I have alot to work on, not only what to talk about, but also how I present myself. I need to realx and take it slow, but as I don't have many opportunities to see her, I tend to get hurried and try to accomplish too much and end up accomplishing nothing.<P>Many people that we both know have told her that they've seen a change in me, and they have, but it's probably more that I'm not trying to impress them, just being myself.<P>Hey, that's it. Just relax and be myself. Don't get caught up trying to impress her. If I've really changed the way that I think I have, then she'll notice.

S.P, <P>Hi!<P>D-Day a few months ago. When I want him to talk, it is about the reasons and everything about how the A began, reason, where, when, etc..<P>When he tries to speak with me about other stuff, I get angry because he's not been answering all my questions. I actually drill and interrogate a lot (like a detective) to ensure accuracy and consistency.<P>WS was never a conversationalist, he often likes me to do the talking. He is too quiet - that is a quality (or rather trait) that gives my family and friends the jitters. They prefer more open and extrovert chaps. They think the quiet ones are 'still waters runs deep' type and you never quite know what they are hatching.<P>So, all of a sudden, the WS wants to talk, pays me compliments, get on my philosophical side, etc.. I just didn't want to play along. He calls, I hate to talk because I have nothing good to say, so if he pushes, out comes my questions. <P>But I rather he calls and tries than not at all because I need to know he desperately wants to be in this marriage.<P>I hope all the body language (no crossed arms), tonal quality, facial expression, and interesting topics will get you in your wife's good books. But I think she will slowly open up when she senses your deep and open sincerity in trying to reach her.

Hi TJ, this is weep or the other women in general:<P>Women like to talk out their problems and hear responses in an emotional way first. They like to repeat the situation and garner support for the unfair, or petty, or rude, etc, situation that they may have encountered at work, the supermart, the neighbours, etc..<P>Then when they have gotten the load off their chest, they like you to ask them if they are THINKING about doing anything about the problem. They may come up with a few answers and this is not the time to jump in and guffaw 'that won't work!", or "it's so stupid" or "it's a waste of time", or "it's so petty", you get the drift?<P>Women like a thoughtful analysis of the best solution of all the solutions (or scenarios) they have come up with. In general. But there are those PhD types and super pros who are very decisive. Even then, they need time to relax and get their emotions off the chest with family or friends.<P>I hope I get some point across. I have to run now. Post me if you like.

TomH,<P>Although my problem lies with trying to get my wife to communicate, I feel that I have learned alot about why women need to talk from Dr. John Gray's, "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus."<P>We like to fix things. That's what we are not only expected to do, but that's what we get paid to do. If we start to tell another person about a problem, we want advice. Otherwise, we wouldn't talk about it. When someone is talking to us, we perceive that they need help, listen to as many details as we need, and offer a solution.<P>Women, on the other hand, (correct me ladies), like to express their feelings and emotions about whatever is upsetting them, often they may not know exactly what that is, so they talk about several different topics in order to find out. What they want when talking to us is compassion, empathy, and understanding, not solutions. Without these types of connections to what they are saying, they don't feel as though we are truly listening to them. We have a tendency to listen for as many details as we think that we need to offer a solution, and fix it. Often, when asked a question about their day, they may say, "It was fine." What they mean is, "If you love me, you'll ask for more details." They want us to ask what happened, how it made them feel, etc. Instead of telling them that when so-and-so did this, she should do that, they would rather have us tell them that it sounds like they had a rough day. That they're such a wonderful person, and they deserve a hug.<P>Often, and this is tough for us, they will express their emotions about a topic that we thought was resolved. We have a hard time listening, as we don't know what it will accomplish to talk about it again, so we become impatient. And they know that we're not listening with empathy.<P>I have experienced the therapy of talking several times in the last 2 months. There have been many times that I've gotten on the phone with someone when I was extremely upset with my relationship. After talking for a while about how I felt and why, I was suddenly calm and relaxed. Talking about my emotions was theraputic. Journaling also seems to help. There have been many times that I would sit at the computer and start pounding out my thoughts in a rage. By the time I was finished, I couldn't believe that I was ever upset. It's interesting to re-read what you've written, and see how you changed as you went.<P>So to make a short story long, it's very difficult for us to understand the need for expressing emotions and the effect that it has. We have a tendency to keep everything inside, and don't understand why others don't either.

Dr. John Gray has a really insightful little book in the Mars/Venus series entitled Mars and Venus.....In Touch,Enhancing the passion with great communication.I found it to be right on target. Author Deborah Tannen also has a couple of good books on male/female communication. She's a PhD who's done lots of research in this area.My counselor recommended her work when H and I first started counseling as a lot of our problems were related to really bad communication patterns. I found the Mars/Venus book just as good and much easier reading.Hope this helps!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have experienced the therapy of talking several times in the last 2 months. There have been many times that I've gotten on the phone with someone when I was extremely upset with my relationship. After talking for a while about how I felt and why, I was suddenly calm and relaxed. Talking about my emotions was theraputic.....it's very difficult for us to understand the need for expressing emotions and the effect that it has.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Seems like to me you've answered your own question. Expressing your emotions to your friend over the phone released the emotions and calmed you down. That's the secret...that's why it is so important to us...talking dissipates these emotions so they can remain at a manageable level or can be dealt with through some kind of solution.<P>Well, tonight you've made me almost cry. Your sincerity in trying to find a way to reach your wife is so touching. I know you feel that your wife has her reasons, but how can she fail to see that you have seen the error of your ways and have changed. <BR>That much effort being put into repairing a relationship has got to be recognized eventually. Keep up the good work.<BR>She's crazy if she doesn't see the light soon.<P>Buffy

Buffy,<BR>Thank you. Reading your respose did make me cry.<P>Think of me like "the little engine that could", I'm still on my way up the mountain and can't wait to change my tune to "I know I can, I know I can...."