Jo helped me work out his plan. I guess I am lucky I won't see H til Saturday and maybe will be able to handle the calm and collected thing by then.<P>I will say: <BR>I know you took Ow in the trailer with you last weekend. I went in the trailer and found her long black hair all over everything. I feel so hurt and humiliated and devistated that you would do that in the trailer that we have always shared. I never thought you would be so disrespectful to me. I would like to know what your plans are for moving out of the house.<P>Wasn't sure what to say about the moving out part, any suggestions welcomed.<P>Then I will work on my plan B letter , but maybe stall a little once I see how it is with him out of the house.<P>I just want to rant a little . H remembered the garbage today without me reminding him or doing it myself. I wanted to say gee, thanks for remembering the garbage , that sure makes up for you ******** Ow in our trailer all weekend. Would that be a LB do you think?<BR>Lora

Hey Lora,<P>Real good but I don't know about the "disrespectful to me" sentence. Did you add that after the fact? I think that sentence would be considered an LB (disrespectful judgments)??<P>And I would remove the word "devistated", remembering you want to project strength in your resolve, right?<P>Otherwise, I like it!<P>I'll be home soon and give you a call then.<P>Hey, did you see that the old Lamonts in Tacoma off of Pearl is now a GotChalks??? I'm stopin in! <P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 31, 2000).]

Lora,<BR>I feel like picking the small details, and sorry if this offend you.. I don't think it's necessary to tell him why you know about him bringing OW in your trailer. The reason is.. next time he will be really careful about her hair!! Just tell him you know..(if you stick to it he will realize you are not baiting.. I hope). anyway I just thought, what do you think??<P>I told my H that I needed some respect and honesty.. I'm no expert on this and I'm going to divorce so..maybe I'm a bad example . <P>Let us know how it goes.<P>I wish you best.<P>Meg

Meg,<BR> He has just been so good at denial we though it would be irrufutable proof. I was hesitant to say it too. What does everyone else think?<P>Jo, <BR>Humm,Ya, you think I can be humiliated but not devistated huh? I guess devistated is just closer to my real feeling than humiliated.<BR>No, I didn't know about that store, and I go by there tomorrow during work... maybe at lunch time. I have my meeting tonight at 6:30.<BR>Lora

Hi Lora:<P>A Plan, huh. I'm sorry but the whole tone of this confrontation seems like a LB or revenge to me. It happened and it was wrong, but turn this around and approach it from your point of view not his. <P>If you approach him and tell him that you are aware that he has used the trailer for a weekend tryst with OW (no explanation of how and why you know being necessary), that this knowledge has caused you a great deal of pain because it was a private thing that only the two of you shared, and that as a result you feel that his continuing to live with you any further is doing damage to your love for him and you would like for him to move somewhere else as soon as he can manage until such time as he is able to work through his feelings for OW and is ready to begin to work with you on restoring your marriage. <BR>This puts the emphasis on you dealing with your own pain without causing him to feel like you are condemning him.<P>It's just a suggestion...he probably doesn't deserve this treatment but remember no LBing is important.<P>Buffy<BR><p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited September 01, 2000).]

Lora,<P>I kind of like Buffys approach to this, while I don't see that much wrong with the way you want to do either, men especially men who have lost their minds the way ws have, well they get really huffy really easy. As I am sure you know<P>Just my 2 cents of course.<P>------------------<BR>Deb<P>Hepatitis C, Please educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In</A> memory of a very dear friend <A HREF="http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp" TARGET=_blank>http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp</A>

Hey Buffy, thats really good. Will you come here and be me for a day? I think you are right. I am trying to not put him on the defensive and get in a situation where I have to LB. I am just afraid I am so upset still that I need to keep it pretty short and to the point or I will get sidetracted and LB all over the place.<P>I will practice your way today and see if I can do it more naturally for me.<P>Deb, Yes, there is proabably no way I can say this to him and not have it be a bit of a LB, After all everything I say seems to be. Sigh. And its hard to work on being respectful to him when he doemonstrates zilch for me. Maybe I have too much resentment of him to ever work this out.<BR>Lora

How does this sound.<P>H, I know you took OW camping with you last weekend. It makes me feel hurt and humiliated because I saw the trailer as a place the 2 of us have shared. As a result I feel that that you continuing to live here is really damaging my love for you and I would like you to move out as soon as you can manage until you can work through your feelings for OW and begin to restore our marriage.<BR>Lora

Lora, I likd Buffy's entire response. I think you've got to leave out the humiliated part. Just state the facts. Seems to me, anytime I mention hurt (me or the kids), humiliation, disrespect... it backfires.<P>Too self-centered. Any of our feelings just seem to infringe on that self-centeredness.<P>We just have to wait for it all to implode.<P>Show your strength. If you feel short on it... find it anyway you can. I know you are strong!!!

I think that sounds good, Lora. The only thing I would change if I were saying it would be to leave out the "it makes me feel" and use an "I" statement. I feel hurt. Or I am hurt.<P>But then, I tended to use the beat on his chest and call him names approach and only wish I had handled some of our early confrontations with as much grace as you are showing.<P>God bless.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

OK TT and LOr, Thanks for the ideas. But TT we are supposed to be able to say our feelings in a non LB way. I have alot of trouble with it tho.<P>How does this look everyone?<P>H, I know you took OW camping last weekend and this has caused me alot of pain, because I saw the trailer as a private place only the 2 of us have shared.As a result I feel that that you continuing to live here is really damaging my love for you and I would like you to move out as soon as you can manage, until you can work through your feelings for OW and begin to restore our marriage.<BR>Lora<BR>

Good.<P>I just feel so sad that anyone ever has to say these kinds of words to their spouse.<P>May I sentence your H to 5 whacks with the MB cyber-frying pan?

Oh and I have such a peaceful saying in my signature .<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

I think buffy's approach has merit.<P>Especially in your case, Lora, it is important to come from a place of percieved strength.<P>Of course what he did and that he lied about it is the ultimate of disresect, but try to tell him how his actions made you feel, rather than just labeling them.<P>Also I wouldn't ask him when he is moving out, I'd tell him that you need him out ASAP and give him X days to give you a firm date.

Whoops...you've been busy before I submitted last post.<P>I like your modified statement, but I would change the "as soon as you can manage" to "I want your sorry *** out-a-here by sundown, you (add adjectives)H."<P>OK...I guess that wouldn't give you that graceful demeanor you are going for <P>Really, I would nail down a commitment on the date or on the time span to get a firm date. That is one area you can show a little strength he may respect.

How about this.....<P><B>H, <BR>I know you took the OW with you to the trailer last weekend. Knowing this has cause me great pain, because the trailer was to me a special place that only WE shared.<P>This kind of behaviour is damaging my relationship and love for you, so I would like you to move out of the house by next Friday (or one week away) until you are ready to begin to work with me on restoring our marriage. </B><P>And that's it.....if he starts to argue, explaing, etc.....just keep repeating, in a quiet, non-emotional voice, "I would like you to move out until you are ready to work on restoring our marriage."<P>That's it...that's where you stand. You haven't LB'd but you have been honest, forthright and open about what you are feeling and wanting to happen.<P>Just my suggestion....<p>[This message has been edited by Mrs.O (edited September 01, 2000).]

Hi Lora:<P>I like your changes. It makes it more succinct and easier for you to get through without LBing big time (which is what he really deserves....that and a good pounding on the chest...done that one too...didn't work he just stood there and took it). Where is that frying pan when you re...e...e..lly need it?<P>Buffy<P>

Lor,<BR>I dont think a cyber frying pan would really give me the satisfaction I was looking for. Jo said we should take up target practice as a way to express our anger... I said I didn't think that was such a good idea right now.LOL<P>FHL, You think the time for him to set the schedaul is over huh? I will work on adding a timeline. Thanks.<P>Thanks Mrs O, will add in the bit about a time, and practice saying. I would like you to move out til.... Along with OK, I see, I understand.<P>OK Buffy, I will go for it. Have been rehearsing all day. Will tell him tomorrow when he gets up and before he leaves for work. He is off Mon -Wed. so maybe can move then<P>Everyone send me good vibes for me to be stong and not go crazy tomorrow OK?<BR>Lora<BR>