Where do I begin. I guess with this morning. H comes over three mornings a week to "help" get the kids off to school. It's actually more work for me, because I want things looking a certain way when H is around.<P>Anyway, this morning, things were going well, and I had a few minutes before I left for work, so H and I chatted a bit...nothing earth shattering. This is the bad part...I went to leave for work and kissed him. He did'nt like it or feel at all comfortable with it. Keep in mind that H and I have been intimate several times since our seperation, the latest being last weekend. H explained that HE should be the one doing the kissing, and HE will do so when he feels like the time is right.<P>Well, this led to a lecture from him!!! He said that he is feeling like I am "staging"...not being myself. That when we are intimate he thinks it means that I am expecting a committment. That I am way farther along in this "process" than he is and I need to back off.<P>Ok...I have not called him in weeks. Last time I told him I love him was probably two months ago. I ask almost nothing of this man. What is he freaking out about?<P>Well, I called him on my lunch hour...told him I appreciated his honesty this morning about feeling uncomfortable with the affection. He said he spends his life these days for waiting for the other shoe to drop. I will explain...he said he knows many couples that have been through things like this and their situations are so different from ours. He expected me to shoot him, burn his clothes, keep the kids from him...something...upon my discovery of his affair. He cannot believe that I have handled it like I have. Says that I am more than amazing, and he is having a really tough time with all of my (positive) changes.<P>Oh yeah, this morning he also told me that my being a freind to him was only an act...I am only behaving this way to get him to come back.<P>I explained to H about the reading I have done and the changes I have made. He knows I have always been a very honest person, but he still thinks I'm faking this. He said it would almost be easier for him if I reacted with anger, because at least he 'd know what to do with me.<P>Called me St. Allison...that hurt.<P>So, have I overdone Plan A? <P>I told him upon discovery that I had a choice to make...that I could be bitter or I could learn and grow. I choose to learn and grow. He is blown away...and as I said, has no idea what to do with me.<P>What now guys...I'm not so sure he likes the new and improved me...but I know I do. I'm certainly not the same woman he married and fell in love with. I'm much more independent, which he wanted...but does he really?<P>Sorry this is so long folks.<P>Maybe the wedding this weekend and me being with all of his family made him feel trapped again...wouldn't surprise me if it did. <P>Any ideas for me???<P>allison

Honey,<P>You are doing a great Plan A job! His guilt won't allow him to see you as the beautiful person you are (inside and out). He expected you to blow him out of the water, but instead he's seeing a loving, forgiving, and patient wife. He was prepared to deal with the other reaction (and you would've had every right), but not this. Not this wonderful, strong woman. Keep plan A'ing him, I believe he will come around and see you for what you have always been. True to yourself and a person who has taken the high road.<P>My H still kisses me when he greets me and leaves. He also does the same with OW, I know because I asked. What's important is that he hasn't stopped kissing me. When he stops, I will worry. Like you I was devastated, but I didn't rant and rave, seek revenge or be vindictive. He married a kind-hearted, gentle, passionate woman and I have been consistently true to myself. He acknowledges this at counseling, and appreciates every thing that I am and have been. <P>This MLC thing is a cruel twist in life, and I hate it. But, what can you do? Continue to plan A him, he will remember why he fell in love with you and married you. Now if everything I write here for you comes true, I'll stay on MB and write happy endings for everyone!<P>Don't despair, hang in there Allison!<P>Many Tears

Allison - I don't know what is going through their heads sometimes. I think you are amazing and what your husband can't stand is that makes him the bad guy. Wouldn't it be easier for him if you did freak out? <P>One of the most telling things my husband said to me was, "the worst thing I ever did was to forgive him." You know why? Now the responsibility for what happens is all on his shoulders.<P> If your husband is a conflict avoider like mine is then they can't even imagine solving this on their own. Or if your husband is someone who needs a scapegoat for their problems, this puts it right back on his shoulders. My husband told me that my plan A made him feel pressured. Well, now we are in Plam b. I don't know what results it will have but I feel stronger and he has to take responsibility for what happens next. He has the nerve to say to the children, "I'll come back someday, if you mother takes me back" absolving himself of all responsibilty.<P> I don't know if this helps you but I think sometimes the WS can't really believe some of the things they've done and don't know how to cope with it. it is not in their perception of themselves. Then they try all these bull**** methods of not taking responsibilty. Just a thought - I don't know if these possibilites apply to your scenario. Good luck<P> Kris

Me again, Allison!<P>I wanted to add that I am choosing not to be intimate with H yet. It's too soon, and if we did do that I admit I would have hopes of reconciliation. Every time we made love, I would be thinking "yes, he is on his way back." But, until he can say with conviction that he is going to do that, move home, and promise no contact, these legs are staying crossed! Easier said than done, I know, but I couldn't possibly go through that kind of emotional roller coaster.<P>Besides, there's something to flirting and inticing, and yet be forbidden. No, really, I'd be put in a looney bin if we made love and he didn't commit. I think it would hurt even more. Just my thoughts and you can take it or leave it.<P>Hope things work out for you, MT

Allison,<P>I've read many of your posts, though I'm mostly lurking these days. It sounds like you are doing really great!<P>So is he upset about the kiss because he thinks it is staged, or because he feels pressured? If you just felt like it, it can hardly be staged.<P>It would be funny to compare the things they think if it wasn't so sad. My h thought he and OW could live in a condo near our home, and we would be good friends and share the kids. So while yours thinks you should be mad and throw his butt out, mine seemed to think I would be a bit pissed (to use his words). Hang in there, dear. They can come out of the fog, and if not, you can make a great life for yourself elsewhere. You do sound like a strong lady.

Allison, No, plan A is about you remember. You have grown. Allison just got lost in the shuffle. <P>I think it's great. Just back off with the intimacy and keep being the you you want to be.

Hi there Allison,<P>Boy oh boy! Something struck a chord when I read your post.<P>Forgive while I play Dr. Freud.<P>Your H is feeling closer than ever to you, he is falling back in love with you and it scares him. He is having a trust problem, but it is his problem.<P>Allison, he is close! I'm telling you ... BUT <P><BR>Please don't be at all surprised if he does something to test you ... like see OW and make sure you find out or disappear for a day or so, or not call you when he promises. Just be aware he may try this to see what your reaction will be. <P>I see this so clearly, Allison. Stay clear & strong in your Plan A. Be true to yourself, love your H and yourself. You're doing an absolutely GREAT Job, Hon!<P>Please let me know what transpires, I'm so certain he's gonna test you now.<P>Love,<BR>Jo

Oh Geez you guys,<P>I go make dinner, do some laundry, work on Life Strategies and come back...and have all these replies! Thank you.<P>I'd like to take a minute to reply to each of you..try to keep it short, but you know me.<P>Many Tears, you posted to me twice...thank you. It's so confusing, all of this, isn't it? The ones I see that "make it" on here seem to take a long time. Do we have that much patience? It sounds like your H is being honest and answering your questions...do you hate that you ask them and get answers? I do, sometimes I go to far and regret the answers...like about your H kissing the OW hello and goodbye...ouch. Thank you for your kind words, you and I and each one of us are trying and learning here and that's really all we can ask of ourselves right now.<P>Quakermom...what an eye opening post. You are right on. If I was being a shrew it would be easier for him to justify his behaviour...how did you figure this out? Yes, he is a conflict avoider...big time and has always been a blamer. Everything has to be someone elses fault. He says he does not blame me for the affiar, but did say that if I was being a B*(_* it would be easier for him. I feel like I understand so much more now...thank you.<P>Schizzo...I haven't seen you around in a while and have missed your posts. I hope you are handling everything ok. Ok, the kiss may have been a little bit staged, but I was feeling kinda warm toward H when I did it. But I mean we were just "together" 3 nights ago. Are you still waiting for the fog to lift Schizzo? Update us please. And thank you for your encouragement.<P>TooTrusting, I will for sure back off the intimacy. Obviously he started feeling trapped after the other night. Kinda like it though damn it . Now TooTrusting...go do your homework! Update us...is H still looking better, like a real live human being? Hope so...all is not lost.<P>Resilient...Your post lifted me up, and scared the hell out of me. You are pretty much right on with what you say to others, so I'll be watching very closely over the next...well, who knows how long...for something icky to happen. Do you really think he's feeling closer? He sure seemed to the other night, but wham...did I get told to back off but good today! I hope you are right and wrong, but I think you're right. YOu are amazing Resilient. You never fail to help whoever needs it on these boards, and you always come up with great questions to ask others.<P>Guys..sorry I haven't posted much of late, but with my new job it's almost impossible to get on here. I'll be better. I think of you all and pray for you all each and every day. Thanks for being my friends.<P>allison

Az,<P>Cripes, back OFF intimacy? Well, all I can say is, think it through in terms of you & who you were in your marriage. D'ya think the OW was SUBTLE?<P>There are people here on MB who have been separated longer, there are a few who have been separated more times (7), but I doubt there are more who have been more shameless than me with physicalities during separation than me. No embarrassment icon. He's MY dang HUSBAND. And true, I'm probably one of the few who had sex the pm of the discovery talk, but I was expecting it and I wanted to.<P>I've kissed him hello & goodbye--even after I served D papers.<P>I've seduced him when I could...more than once in the car to "talk".<P>Hello...I designed some of his *on* buttons!!!<P>Our spouses fell in love with us because of *something*. And in not a few of the cases did it not involve sex or sexual feelings. It's all still there. No matter how thick the fog...there's still the memory of those times in scent, touch, voice.<P>I'm not saying go out and bag your H's, but, not being the sexual person YOU ARE when that is usually on the top of their need list when they are in an affair isn't necessarily helping...and of course...be careful.

Lor...you crack me up.<P>Ok, to nail the old man or not to? HMMMM.<P>Well, we are spending all weekend at a hotel next weekend. Going to Retrouvaille. Guess we'll know which couples will make it out of there with their marriages in tact...I'll just look for the whisker burn on the womens faces.<P>Thanks for your reply...I needed a giggle before turning in. <P>I always love reading your posts, you give even the scariest cases here a lot of hope. Keep up the good marriage!<P>allison

az<P>I am no authority...nor am I trying to throw a wrench in here. Perhaps...your husband seems put out from what he would perceive a lack of self-respect on your part. Not saying you do or don't have this....just the way he is viewing it...knowing what a normal response would be. Anger and a "I refuse to put up with this" attitude might be more expected. After all he is 'comparing' your actions with the way others, and probably he himself...would act.<P>I don't know...is there such thing as "overdoing" Plan A? Something to think ab out. <P>I guess bottom line is this...are you Ok with how you are handling this? And what will happen...if/when he returns home? Will he jump on you with an "Ah-Haa!" the first time you let your shield down?<P>I enjoy reading your post...you will certainly be one for the text books!<P>Blessings to you.<BR>

Az, I kinda looked at it too like, I wasn't getting any & I liked his looks...I also TOLD him that. (I know, shameless, but, that is something that attracts him to me.)<P>Any time you can get it to a level of playfulness is nice. Get that male hunter instinct going. <P>Oh, sorry, I guess I found THIS stuff in another book. .

Lighthouse, just a little clarification...Az wanting a kiss from her is a lack of self-respect? My H felt so bad about himself that he didn't think he deserved me any more...my desire for him was received as a gift.<P>I don't think you can go wrong showing your love, in any way, especially if you are in Plan A.

That's what I love about this place... lots of great ideas.<P>We're all made up of different "stuff" though. The frustrating thing for us BS's is trying to read the signs and figure out what the LB's are for the WS.<P>I know for me, in the beginning, when I was seeing movement towards "home", I told H I missed him, loved him and also encouraged the intimacy.<P>Now, with the new situation, I am really treading lightly. I told him during our discussion that I loved him, believed in him, I hugged him. That's about it.<P>I know that given the circumstances, I can't do anything more... it wouldn't be from the heart anyway. He (and I ) have a lot to think about. I know my pressure would really be a turn off now though I really miss him and need him.<P>BTW allison, It's now been a week. H was here everyday since (cept last night because he goes to his counselor) to see the kids. The best part is how much time he is devoting to our littlest one. He seemed to have no "connection" to her when he left. It was awful. This past weekend he actually took her out twice. One day he took S to do something in the am... little one in the middle of the day (hair cut, book store) and then took oldest and 2 friends to a dance and then picked them up when it was over. And it was his weekend to work!!!<P>He also came here the evening I have school and made them dinner and gave baths!!!<P>So, I like what is happening for the kids. Although it does bring up new stuff for them. They ask everyday if he's coming. But I am in a much better place emotionally to deal with it.<P>On the other hand H and I are just cordial. It is still better than the meanness and the "possessed" fake stuff though. He is able to look at me! He tells me to have a nice day. Asks me about school. Won't let me ask him too much. We have a unique situation though. This is going to be very visible!!!! Talk about digging a big hole that is difficult to get out of.

Allison<BR>I have to throw my two cents in here with Lor.<BR>I flirted shamelessly with my H while he was in his affair. I hadn't flirted in 20 years. He was suspicious of my reasons.<P>He tried to make me angry many times. Of course that would have been easier for him. Gosh he needed a reason to hate me didn't he? I sure wasn't giving it to him. He needed me to fight...he needed an excuse.<P>After the affair, after some of the fog cleared, my H told me that one of the things that brought him around was that my eyes would twinkle through all of the pain. No matter what I said, it was the love in my eyes that really meant something, that showed I was for real.<P>You are doing great! <BR>Keep it up and don't forget to take care of yourself.

Allison:<P>You ask if you're "overdoing" Plan A. As long as you're behavior is consistant, and you plan on doing what you're currently doing for the next 50 years---you're doing GREAT!<P>There are issues with being "too Plan A", or trying to trap your spouse with behavior that you have no intent on keeping up---but these don't seem to fit for you.<P>It also sounds like you're handling potentially "explosive" conversations with extreme grace---thanking him for honesty, and adjusting your behavior appropriately is a hallmark of someone who really *understands* plan A. I think you're doing terrific!

Just popping in before work to catch up. You guys are great...thank you for all your help. I love getting different opinions. I'm printing all of this up to take to work so I can "study" a bit.<P> allison

Hi Allison,<BR>I'm so glad to hear that you're making good progress! If there's another shoe that drops here, it's going to be his. The consistency factor of Plan A is factor where you shine. Your H sees the differences, and he wonders if they'll last. Your changes are genuine and I can tell that you'll cherish and remember the difficult lessons you've learned. The "other shoe" is going to be your H figuring out that HE needs to change before you give up on him and move on with your life, complete with a new MB toolbox and life coping skills. I'll be praying for his heart to soften at your special weekend. I have faith that he will find his way back to you.

Allison:<P>They can be so strange can't they. Telling you that a kiss is inappropriate unless he initiates it when 3 days earlier you were sleeping together. Does sex have no emotional meaning but kissing does? Obviously he is wanting to regulate the distance between you by deciding the when, where, and how of your physical contact. Draw closer then push away. Seems like he's having trouble controlling the situation as well as he would like. <P>I admire your ability to maintain your sexual attraction to your H in the face of all this. More power to you. Since it's said that a man connects to a woman through sex that's probably the way he reconnects to her as well. Some of us just are not capable of making that leap even though we see how it might help. <P>How much easier this would be for him if you could react the way he expected you to. Anything else is acting to him. He knows how to deal with the expected, but this is an entirely different reaction. <P>Keep up the Plan A because it seems to be working even if he doesn't want it to.<P>Buffy

Az,<P>Sorry I havent posted to you. But My H spent thurs-sunday with us. So I have been depositing love points into my H bag. We had a nice weekend. How is it going for you. I hope you have had smiles.<P>Michelle