Everything is OK here, although I feel like I am a full time grief counselor to my kids. Two weeks after our dear dog died, our sweet little kitten died tragically. Although she was the 4 year old's kitten, we all really loved her and I think probably "used" her to comfort ourselves as our dog declined.<P>My H and I are doing fine, but yeah...that distant thing...it drives me crazy, too.<P>And it drives me even crazier that I let it yank my chain. I mean we should not allow the actions of others to determine our feelings, right? Not that easy, is it?<P>A few weeks ago, my H got me a little I love you card, for no reason. This is huge because I don't usually get cards, even for Bday...and come to think of it...I didn't get one for my anniversary last week. Hmmm...forgot to feel bad about that...oh, well.<P>And last night we had this exchange:<P>Yesterday I was watching the Emmy's on and off and just happened to see Michael J. Fox mention his wife. I commented on how great that would feel. My H looked at me and enthusiastically said, "Well I told everybody at the picnic (a neighborhood one I couldn't attend) that those beans were YOUR recipe." Then he smiled proudly.<P>So in his little ole clueless mind, he was in the same admiration league. I guess I'll have to listen more closely so I don't miss any of these nuggets!<P>

Wow, FHL, his mentioning your bean recipe must have sent your heart aflutter . Sometimes you just never know what something means to the other person.<P>Sorry about your pets. We've got 4 & I don't know how we'd deal with something happening to them. There's been times the kids have loved the pets & received a whole lot more comfort from them than they have from me & Guard.<P>Guard did a nice. Due to a tree limb crashing on my car & it being in the shop, we're sharing a vehicle. I went to pick him up from work on Sat, he was at a retirement party. The speech part was going on so I hung out in the entry way. He came & found me, brought me in. AFter the speechifying 4 of his friends--one of whom is still dating H's OW (and she's a co-worker to all of these guys)--told me how great I look, how good it was to see me. Guard joked & agreed with 3 of them, but told the one who he shares his troubles with, "I thank God for Lor every day." <P>Somewhere, somehow, we did something right. And I feel a little guilty because with so many on the thread having affairs rekindle, I've been staring at Guard like I'm about to peel back his skull.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

Hi Lor,<P>Yeah, I know about wanting to peel the skull back. After Peppermint's sad post, I literally laid in bed watching H sleep and wondering if I were just delusional to think it was over.<P>And after not speaking of it for months and months, I did ask him if she had found him at his new job or if there had been contact in any way. He said there had not, and to be honest, I believe him....at least 99.9%<P>What a nice thing for Guard to say. I have good feelings for the two of you.<P>I think I did good by picking up on my H's good bean deed and thanking him for it. I really wanted to point out that praising your wife through tears on national TV and a huge crowd that does not normally honor marriage, was a little more dramatic that mentioning your wife's bean recipe.<P>Still, maybe it was the same level in my H's head...and if that is the case, I could be sad about it, but it would probably be smarter to feel good that in his own mind and heart he is giving 100%!

<BR>I debated about whether or not to reply here, but you did say all welcome, so here goes.<P>Even though I am a member of the clueless male club, I understand that bragging about a bean recipe to the neighbors does not even approach a national announcement of a wife's good deeds on the praise-o-meter. But I don't have the opportunity to be on national tv. I could probably go on a crime spree and get myself featured on America's Most Wanted, but I don't think they'd offer me airtime to thank my wife for her support and encouragement. <P>I suspect that my wife is just as deserving of praise as Michael J Fox's wife is, and certainly, FHL, you are deserving as well. But what options do we clueless guys have? You got a "little I love you card", and you say it was huge - and I don't disagree with you. It IS huge. He told the neighbors about your great bean recipe. Ok, not so huge. But it WAS an indicator that he thought you did great things. He was proud of you, and he expressed that to the audience he had at the time.<P>What would he have to do to prevent you from referring to him as "clueless"?<P>My W home-schooled several of my kids through their early grades. She was dedicated and thorough and did an excellent job. I was very proud of that fact and I mentioned it often. I wasn't on national tv, though. Since I don't have Parkinson's disease and didn't have a national audience to praise her, should my W consider me and my appreciation inferior to that offered by a better man?<P>I can also understand your frustration with your H and I hope you don't take this in a critical way. I'm really trying to get some insight into my W's workings by asking these questions. I think that my W is quite a lot like you, and I'm hoping that I can relate to her better by understanding what kinds of things would meet your EN's.<P>Slightly Sane<BR>

Nice to hear from you, FHL. I've been lurking some while gone and haven't seen much from you.<P>Sometimes MB is bad for us. YOu don't seriously think you're delusional about your h, do you?<P>I think both your h's actions were real good! It is a good thing that he is proud of you.<BR>

Scizzo-<P>I will give you a few hints at what makes love deposit for me. It is all in the details, remember that.<P>If the house is particularly clean, say so and give her a hug or a smooch. If she does a favor for you without being asked that you appreciate, tell her! If she particularly takes great care at her makeup or appearance, compliment her or proposition her! If she cooks a particularly great meal, tell her and ofer to do dishes! Take TIME to notice what she does for you, and recognise it.<P>Things you can offer: Call a sitter and plan a date for the two of you without her doing all the work. Help with the laundry without being asked. Rub her back. Bubble her up in the showwer, etc Cook her a dinner and serve it for just the two of you on the best china and wine, candle. Romance should not be dead, even in the middle of a long marriage. Call her in the middle of the day and say hello and chat for 5 min. or take her to lunch in the middle of the week. Bring her a flower, even out of the garden and offer it with a smooch.<P>Well, there is my list. It is in the little details. Of course add honesty attention, cuddling etc, and you will be on your way.<P>I don't know your history, sho is the WS, but in recovery, these things will still work as they would if you were dating someone for the first time. <P>Smile a lot.<P>

schizzo,<BR>No, I don't think my H has continued the affair, but of course we never know.<P>Really that bit of truth, the fact we can fully trust another human, is really something I struggle with daily.<P>o2bsane,<BR>I do appreciate my H's efforts. In fact, it is the effort even more than the result is the important part.<P>What could he do so I would call him clued?<P>First of all, while we were dating, I found his cluelessness endearing and the fact he played no games, refreshing. I still do. I wouldn't talk a smooth talking guy. I had a boyfriend that adored me and was exceptionally romantic, but cheated on me (albeit in a diabetic drunk) anyway, so I distrusted admiration and romantic guys big time.<P>So I actually choose my H for what he lacked, thinking HE would NEVER cheat. Joke was on me.<P>I want him to love me as deeply and completely as I love him. I want him to think of me when we are not together and I want him to desire me as I do him.<P>I don't need fireworks, or gifts or grand gestures.<P>I just need to know.<P>