I am in awe of all you who can be so kind and understanding and controlling of your anger and hurt--what does it take to get there? Please, rub some of that off onto me, because plan A is just a far-fetched idea in my case. It's not working, and I feel hopeless.<P>This is just the latest: We have been fussing back and forth--we go through waves of me saying "What do you want to do about this? How could you hurt me like this? Did you ever think of your family while you were fooling around with that (those) woman (women)?" (I know, all the things that I am not supposed to say, right?)<P>To this he replies with every nasty thing that he can think to say to me, that he hates me, wants nothing more to do with me and that he's going to do everything he can to get our son away from me. I go reeling from this. How could my husband say things like this to me? I don't deserve it, and why would someone who is supposed to love you treat you this way?<P>Then things calm down a little. Which means that I don't try to discuss the affair with him. And he is relatively kind and gentle and helpful. He says "Do you need anything? Please let me know. Call me if you want to talk (yeah, right.)" <P>And we discuss logistics. How I am having a terrible time finding a job and how I had to put our son in school here, despite my offer to let him have our little boy for the semester in Japan. (He is told by his command that he will not be allowed to have his son by himself--military is strict on this kind of stuff for readiness purposes.) My husband is despondant over losing his son. He has not spend much time with him during the last 3 years or so. <P>Then, I had to point out: "Gee, I wonder why you didn't get to spend too much time with your son when you were hung up with Miss Kitty. YOU could have been a little more proactive--the kid wasn't going anywhere, and I certainly didn't keep him from you. You never even bothered to call him." (And if truth be told, he didn't. But he doesn't remember that, or chooses not to remember.)<P>I said this to him on the phone yesterday. I had told him to please call anytime to talk to our little boy (hinting that I wanted to talk, too, because I still love him.) and I think that he has been hesitant to call, knowing that my parents would probably answer the phone and he's afraid of what he thinks they might see him as. (That's my theory.)<P>Of course, when I said this about his parenting history, he screamed at me and slammed the phone down. Even if it was true.<P>You see, I saw in his chat the discussion of how he was weighing the privledge of being a father of our little boy with spending the rest of his life frolicking on the futon with Miss Kitty. He had said "I am at the point where I am thinking that I should just give my wife custody of the kid. I can't loose you. I am between two mountains--literally. (Ha-ha.)" <P>Isn't that terrible? But he doesn't seem to remember any of this. He was in that alleged "fog" when he wrote this, apparently.<P>I had written an e-mail before calling yesterday, questioning why he didn't call. I had tried calling all weekend and either he was on-line, or else he was on the phone for an hour at a time. When I did get ahold of him, he said "Oh, I am sorry. I really was getting ready to call. In fact, I just went out and got a phone card so that I could."<P>I said "Why do you need a phone card when you have long distance service on you telephone, unless you are making calls that you don't want recorded? Are you talking to Miss Kitty again?" (This was his previous stratetgy to hide his affair--and I believe that he is not beyond hooking up with her again.)<P>He called me Inspector Clouseau, inspector gadget, whatever, and screamed at me about making assumptions about his "private life."<P>Then we fought about the kid. Actually, HE fought about the kid. He told me that he thinks that I am filling the kid's head full of lies and trying to take him away from him (now why would I call just to put the kid on the phone with him every week, at my own expense, when H is too chickens**t to call himself?)<P>H says that he wants nothing more to do with me, and that he never did, and he stayed with me because I am the mother of his child. That's the only reason. And he says that he will hire the best lawyer to get the kid away from me because I am a s***** mother. As if.<P>I told him that I copied his chat discussion with OW, about how he wanted her the most, thought that I was the predator, but couldn't mess up his kid's life. So he was reluctantly coming back to me. (All the while, he was telling me that he loved me and really wanted to be with me--and if only for the sake of the kid, we should work things out.)<P>Okay, bottom line, I have kept my temper and I am trying to deal with things calmly and rationally.<P>However, even by just discussing the truth--it becomes the Dreaded Love Buster. This guy is so messed up, he doesn't even recall or want to recall the lies he told. And I don't want to rub it in his face, but he gave me a raw deal, and out of fairness, I just am trying to figure out what in the heck he wants. <P>Now I know that what he says and what he feels and what is real are all completely different things. Okay, so he is crazy. But, here I am, trying to understand him. It's impossible.<P>Actually, he acts like he is posessed by the devil and I am expecting his head to start spinning around and projectile vomiting. He acts like ten different people in one body. I am trying to be funny here, but this is how he is acting, and I am beginning to wonder. Maybe he is.<P>When do I give up? How do I know if this is a marriage that can't be saved? When do I get that peaceful feeling that tells me that it's over and that I should just deal with it? It's not coming.<P>And if it isn't over, what is it that I can do, like so many of you, to just ignore the nastiness and hatefulness and try to turn the other cheek? Is it a learned behavior? Am I just not a nice person and I am doing all this on purpose? I would like to think that I am a nice person. After all, I feel like I am the only one who is really trying.<P>Now he (like he always has) has got me wondering if I am the one who is crazy. I really cannot imagine spending a lifetime feeling this way, but I just cannot fathom that this marriage is over. I wish someone could tell me if it's time to let it go and move on.<P><BR>

Bernzini:<P>If you're trying Plan A, you're doing an absolutely horrible job in controlling your lovebusters. I read your descriptions above and I cringe---you're a lovebusting "pro".<P>If you really want to make a concerted effort to save your marriage, I'd strongly recommend you start counseling with someone familiar with Harley's methodologies (or one of the Harley's themselves). If you haven't ordered the book <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Lovebusters</A>, I'd suggest that you do that as well.<P>You may be trying right now, but based on your description of your own behaviors, you have a long ways to go. See if you can find a counselor to help coach you on eliminating these undesirable behaviors. That will help towards the recovery of your marriage tremendously.

Bernzini<P>I have to agree with above. Honey, you are NOT keeping your cool at all! You are attacking him every chance you get, and needling him about the A. If he ever felt guilty and remorseful, you are blowing it away with your comments.<P>Plan A is forgive yourself for what ever it was about you that did not fulfill him, and then forgive him. Think of him like a lost soul in the fog, he is not sure what he wants, but he knows he doesn't want to face that wall of anger anymore, who would. Put out your fire. Patience and support. Then coax him into talking of the A and what EN he got from it, and take the info in. This is part of your recovery in the marriage; you have to change too. <P>Don't argue he never contacted the child, just give him upbeat reports on child's new things. He will miss the child on his own when he realizes how much he is missing of the child's life. You don't need to tell him.<P>I could go on, but I think you are getting the picture...<P>B

Here's a thought: My W is currently going through counseling. She's attempting to determine who she should choose, me or the OM. The therapist told her no contact with the OM, and limited contact with me. Plus, we are not allowed to talk about our relationship/impending divorce/infidelity. <P>It has been a few weeks now, and though we're not perfect (I bring up the subject of "us" too often), it has been a calming influence. It's kind of like Plan B in a way. Not being able to speak about our situation has helped me to draw back and look at it more objectively. We haven't talked much over the past few weeks, but we haven't fought, either. <P>I feel like the anger and bitterness are fading on there own. In a couple of months, if she decides that she wants to save the marriage, I will be in a much better place emotionally.<P>For your H, I'm guessing that even the mention of the A or the OW is a major LB. When you throw it in his face, you're just giving him all the more reason to run off with Miss Kitty. You should give him no reason whatsoever to get frustrated with you.<P>Think about it from his perspective: OW is willing to do anything to make him happy, while all you can do is nag about how much you hate his new toy. She is putting on her best face to attract him, and you put on your best face when you were dating, so why show him an ugly side of you while you're trying to win him back?<P>Step back a little from the situation. <P>Don't take him to task for his failings as a father. That in itself is a major LB for any man. Each one of us, deep down inside, wants to be a good dad, when we fail, it hurts us deeply.<P>If you can manage it, don't even mention the A, the OW, and stay away from even talking about the future of your marriage. You have to allow him to arrive at the idea of saving the marriage on his own. Trying to drag him to that place against his will is only going to cause more resentment, anger, and frustration.<P>This will not work overnight. For me, the anger and hurt has only just begun to subside after 3 weeks of limited contact with my W. Its baby steps at this point, but it seems to be working ever so slowly. Whether she decides to stay with me or not, I'll be in a better place emotionally if I continue on this path. From what I've seen, it could help you as well.<BR>

You are right--I probably need bigtime counseling. I just don't know where to turn to anymore. I am hurting so badly inside and I find comfort nowhere--least of all, from him. All I get is more pain. I am in a blue funk all of the time, and I know that I am not a nice person these days. <P>My daughter says "Mom, I think that we are just driving you crazy and that we should just stay out of your way." (meaning herself, her sister and brother.) And when she said that, it just made me feel terrible. Least of all, do I want my kids to bear the brunt of my foul mood. I am trying to be patient with them, they are just kids, but I get so nervous these days.<P>He shows no remorse for what he did--only defensiveness. If he would say "I'm sorry, I love you, let's talk, I will come and get you and I promise things will get better," then I would be the happiest girl in the world. And I would go back in a heartbeat. If he would understand why I cry and why I have questions, then I wouldn't bait him. I just want him to talk, is all. I am not trying to slam him. But everything I do makes him mad. Everthing I say is an attack.<P>I know that this whole healing process is up to me, I have to take the initiative, but I just don't know where I am going to get the strength to get up to task. I don't know where to start. I have no support, nothing. <P>This is how I was raised. Everyone in my household, as I grew up, did their own thing and suffered their problems alone. Me, especially, being the only girl in the family. It was a cold, lonely place to be. Not necessarily hostile, but lonely. I am not trying to cover my butt by saying this, but I know that I have patterns of behavior that I need to break.<P>I know that I have to change, too, in order to get along with him, but I don't know how. He keeps going on that we are incompatible, there is no hope.<P>(Incompatible?--if anything, we are exactly alike, pesonality-wise: we are both independant, oversensitive, quiet and introverted, have a tendancy to keep bad emotions inside until it gets crazy then, easily we are both easily provoked. He yells, I cry. He yells because I cry. I cry because he yells. It goes on and on, and that's the way it's been since we were first married, not just because of the affair. I think that we are both ashamed of things that we have done in the past, too, and for him, that becomes fuel for the fire.)<P>I guess, we are also different in ways that cause trouble: he is a very private person, prefers to hide dirty laundry. I let it all hang out; I talk about all and everything. I have this idea that the world is a lovely place and that you still can trust anyone--even after all these years of getting burned, I am still idealistic and peace-loving. I air out my problems in order to work through them. I make a great hippie. <P>He is peace-loving in the sense that one should keep all skeletons in the closet and all bad things under wraps, therefore causing no trouble. If you don't call it black, it aint black.<P>Our two ideas of being "peace-loving," are of course opposite and work against each other. When we both think that we are "trying," of course, we are both unraveling.<P>Frankly, I can understand perfectly why he had an affair--our marriage was very hard. I know that he was trying to seek comfort. Speaking from my end, there was no lack of love, ever, ever. I loved him with all my heart and would have neve cheated on him.<P>But we went through crap from the very beginning, even when we were dating. Especially since I had just been divorced from my first husband a year prior and was still devastated by this divorce and losing custody of my kids. (I can understand why he fears this--I sure did.) <P>I am tired of crying over this marriage and I agree with him that it has been hard, but I don't want to give it up. At the same time, I don't want anymore of the same garbage, but I don't know what to do to change. I am certainly willing to listen to anything that anyone has to tell me--I am willing to be humble enough to listen, even if it means that I have to be put in my place.<P>That is another area where we are different. He just wants to go on and forget, with or without me, and not have his mind picked over. But this is what it would take. I know that I have to clean up my own back yard, but I am sure that it takes two to make a sucessful marriage. I wish that he would go to counseling, too. I wish that he would at least humble himself.<P>I have read Lovebusters, and I have identified many of the topics as problems in our marriage. Especially the anger problems. And the bad habit problems (his messiness, my inresponsibility with money.)<P>But what now? <P>And how do I reach him?<P>I am about at the point of giving up--I am tired of being attacked every time I come near him. I feel like I am standing in front of a badger hole--when I mean no harm. In fact, the opposite. When I think that I am being nice, he still sees it as an offense. I don't get it.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Bernzini (edited September 05, 2000).]

How do you reach him? I would say don't try to reach him yet, try to reach yourself.<P>You seem like you're in terrible pain right now, and that's understandable. He has hurt you terribly, and you seem to be adding to the pain by beating yourself up, too. I've been down that road myself. <P>There is absolutely nothing wrong with going into counseling. If you had a severe pain that wouldn't go away, you'd go to the doctor, right? Why is it that when people are having mental or emotional pain, they are so reluctant to go to a doctor that can help them heal?<P>I would guess that the problems that led to your first divorce have not been resolved. Maybe you didn't heal from the pain of that relationship fully, and carried the problems over into your new marriage. <P>First things first, you need to get out of that "blue funk," and quickly. Powerful emotions cloud judgement. You may say and do things in the midst of depression that you would never do otherwise. If your angry, depressed, confused, and nervous all at the same time, it's a pretty good bet you're not thinking clearly.<P>If this pain has been going on for some time, it is high time that you seek help. And don't just pick the first name in the phone book. Talk to the therapist over the phone if you can. Schedule a session, talk to them, and if you don't feel better afterwords, look for someone else. Keep looking until you find someone whom you think can help. I was amazed at how even a few sessions with a competent counselor can make a difference in the way you look at things.<P>Are you incompatible? Will it work out? Can you save your marriage? There are no easy or quick answers, but don't look for the answers until you've found some peace on your own, independent of your H, your kids, or your family. They say it all the time here, but I'll say it again...work on yourself first, then work on saving the marriage.<P>

I just read your post and it sounded like I could have written alot of it myself. Right now my H is still saying he loves me and wants it to work but sometimes actions speak louder than words and his actions and his words aren't mixing. I found out in Feb about his A. I found out again in June after being stupid enough to think it was over. I was stupid again. Wednesday he told me she was pregnant and going to have an abortion Thursday which she did He went too. She's married too but says it couldn't have been her husbands. He said it is definitely over this time but right now my feeling is that I've heard it all before. He wanted me to confront her and ask/tell her to leave him alone which I did today but then I came home overemotional and we had a big fight. He's called twice from work to check on me (I'd be very upset if he didn't) but quite frankly I don't want to talk to him. I'm at the same point you are wondering if its over and I'm just too blind to see it. I know I'm supposed to be supportive and tell you what you're doing wrong and how to correct it to save everything but I hope it will help knowing that apparently this is a natural feeling and you're not alone in your pain. God bless you and I will pray for you and your family.

Bernzini,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When I think that I am being nice, he still sees it as an offense.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My H is the same way. Anything I do or say is a LB. I don't talk about the affair at all. He has told me on many occasions that I am stupid, apparently because the divorce is not moving as fast as he (or the OW) would like. If I want to know about and have an opportunity to attend appointments that our children have with medical specialists, he says I don't trust him. And then when even his lawyer says that I should be involved in such matters, he says he won't go if I'm there. <P>I have come to realize that it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever how the betrayed spouse acts or responds, they will be treated with distain and hatred anyway.

Bernzini, Before I read Cjacks response, I was thinking the same thing.<P>Don't try to reach him until you reach yourself. NOt an easy thing to do.. And I know it can't be easy for you living with your parents.<P>All the emotions that you feel are normal. I feel them too. Well at least I was feeling them. I pretty much don't feel anything right now..... Well, that's not true either.<P>You ask about dealing with the emotions. Counseling is a good way. Reading is another way. I think I told you how much psych, philosophy, and spiritual books I have read. One of the more helpful books for me has been "How God Can and Will Save your Marraige" I ordered it from the healing ministries website.. I was skeptical at first.<P>But what I found in the book...was not really so much on how to save the marraige, but how to save me. The book helped me focus on important concepts such as forgiveness, suffering (what it means,,what it does for us), doubt, faith, trust... detachment... etc.etc. I actually read many parts of it over and over. <P>In counseling...instead of focusing on my H or my marraige, I focused on me.. things (I guess my own issues) that have been dogging me for many years. ( I won't bore you with my sorted past!!!) <P>I do really think the key is making this a journey for yourself. It doesn't mean that you can't feel the ANGER, FRUSTRATION, HURT... just bring it to us!!! or write it down. Sometimes I get on the computer and add to my very long letter to H on Word!!<P>You mentioned some of the things you could do for a part time job. Perhaps you could really focus on that. Did you say there was a college near you? What languages do you speak?? You could put an ad at a school to tutor in a language! My SIL teaches sign. She tutors out of her home and told me she is going to do a class at the local YMCA.. <P>For me, I can't really DO those things.. but, taking a class that is really chalengeing has truly given me a better focus for myself. I have to spend most of the day (because I move very slowly now...thinking.....reading.....straightening up.....) working on it. <P>Try not to let your foggy H get to you. It is all an illusion..his... you are in reality...make the most of it.

K--I am very glad to hear from you and I appreciate your frankness. I really am honored to have your judgement in my problem. You are right, for attempting plan A, I have been pushing buttons that I when I know what response I should be getting. Thank you for your response. I will follow your advice and go for counseling.<P>Burnedspouse--I appreciate your frankness, also. I know that I must change--I just don't know how. He has always maintained that I have a nasty temper, and I thought that this was his real complaint about me (even though I secretly thought that his temper was worse.) Yeah, I have an Indian grandma, I know it's in the genes somewhere. So, I tried to work on the temper problem. I worked on keeping my voice down. Now I realize it's what I say, not how I say it, that gets him upset. I guess that I have inherited my Scot Grandma's tactlessness. Grandma was the sweetest thing in the world, but she said what what was on her mind. She'd get people fuming, and then wonder why. I hope that it is not too late to change this problem in me.<P>CJack--You got me ashamed of myself for attacking my husband's fatherhood. As much trouble as I have had with my husband, he is a wonderful father, and that is a rarity in this day and age. No matter how busy or tired he is, he plays with his little boy. He spoils the little guy rotten. From the moment the kid was born, the two of them were bonded. I don't know--there was about three or four weeks when he didn't call on his own accord back in Jan and Feb 99. He later told me that he was sick over missing his kid--maybe he felt some comfort in his affair and just got caught up in it.<P>I am really glad that you wrote, too. You say that you had counseling for depression? How did that work? What did the counselor do for you?<P>I was told, in my two visits to the Navy chaplain that I didn't need medication or anything like that for my current problem, that it was definately warrented. However, I have struggled with depression problems in the past, to the point where it gets to be almost a physical funk (weakness, fatigue, fluxuating weight, lack of consentration) and I have always pooh-poohed the problem. I felt that it was a weakness and that I just needed to overcome it by thinking positively and keeping busy. I was never into a lot of psychobabble. However, I see the effects that it has had on my marriage, and if that's what it takes to heal things on my part, then I am ready to give a look into it.

Bernzini-<P>I wrote you a response earlier, but when I tried to post it, it said it was shut down for maintanance.<P>Any way, here is the jist of what I said. I think that you have a lot of things in your life that need resolution. I think the way you felt in your family unit is something: it leads to low self esteem, and trouble feeling worthy. Love to us is especially precious--yes I said WE. I am very much like that. I am now just dealing with it in couseling.<P>I am on depression med-it is called Wellbutrin. It is extremely helpful. It doesn't grog you out or anything. I could never stay on an even keel without it right now. If you don't like heavy and expensive drugs, try an herbal supplement, Valerian Root. It is a muscle relaxant and it calms your mood, I was taking that last year during the A when I didn't know about it, I was just miserable and a bear to my kids. I was so stressed I was needing massage therapy to unlock my back. It helped.(I can't take V with the Wellbutrin.)<P>I know you do not like Psycho-babble, but the book, "Getting the Love you Want," by Harville Hendrix. It is a look into the psyche of how we pick our mates with the effects of our childhood unfulfilled needs. It shows you how to use the knowledge to better understand your base needs that you may not even be aware of. <P>For me this meant(and I am still learning about myself) the feelings I had during my parents divorce left me feeling valuless. I never got to talk about it and if I asked why, they said none of your business. It went on to anger in household from siblings after her remarriage. I was lost. Gained weight with the divorce, mom didn't like it, basically my esteem was nil. I never got my say in anything, i never was heard. <P>In my marriage this showed up. I exhibited codependet behavior(controlling) to make up for the lack of it as a child. And lack of importance. I am just starting to understand I did not even let my h be an adult! <P>My advice to you is find a counselor, heal yourself. Ask H to be patient while you do this if he can, so there is not added pressure. Deal with your unfulfilled needs: in childhood, in your first marriage/divorce and the baggage you brought into this one. Once connections are made between your past and present activities and feelings, things will start to clear a little.<P>Take heart, it is a relief, not a struggle to find out about your inner self.

Berzini!<P>Up to the top! Read my last resonse <P>B

<BR>Bernzini,<P>In some ways I was fortunate, I had read up on Harley and been in Plan A for a few weeks before d-day.<P>I agree with K. From what you wrote, you are driving him away. You asked how you can change. I will attempt a reply. I held the record in resentment and have done it myself. I wish GQ worked as I could refer you to some threads.<P>1. Step back from the "he did/I did" and focus on the bigger picture. If you could have a great marriage with this man, do you want it? Do you want to drop the resentment for your own sake (it poisons us)?<P>2. Are you willing to do what it takes to change?<P>3. You and I are accountable for our actions. Regardless of how he treats you, you have a choice in how you treat him. The only way I could get my mind around trying to do what made him happy regardless of how he was treating me was to remember God had already taught me that through my son. He was the most difficult toddler and baby, but I treated him based on his need rather than the way he acted. I realized I could do this for my big child too. <P>4. The beginning was the hardest for me. Once I got the ball rolling, it was easier to treat him well. And yes, as others pointed out, a big part of it was to stop throwing his mistakes in his face. Kill him with kindness. Take the high road.<P>5. While we had many lows on the rollercoaster, the change in me changed the dynamics between us right away. I had decided not to demand things for him or criticize him. It was MY decision and I was doing it for MYSELF.<P>6. You mentioned parenting. I know results are not always this great, but the oddest change in him was in this area. He had truly been a non-father to the kids, then 4 and 2. The change was complete when I stopped pressuring him.<P>7. Last but not least, you can't force him to do anything. He will do what he will do. But it sounds like he wants something with his son, and you need to make it easy, not hard for him. You know your son will benefit from the relationship. I know he was willing to give him up when he was in the fog. So was my h. He was ready to walk away and import the bimbo from overseas and have another life. And now he is the best father ever!<P>I hope this helps. I've read your posts before and I think you are a strong woman. The other thing that is helping me a lot is reading Phil McGraw's book "Life Strategies". He helped me realize that whatever my spouse does, I am accountable for my own happiness. And he has an excellent chapter on forgiveness FOR OUR OWN SAKE.<P>If you read my post on 2-3 year affairs, I have been hurt by many people. I am working to deal with forgiving 7 people who have hurt me in a major way. My h and the two OWs were only the last 3 on that list. I can't continue to live with the resentment and I won't.<P>There were many hurtful things along the way. He told me my blue eyes (which he used to love) were cold and hard while the OWs were big and soft like our Ds (uggh). I'll never forget that one. But I got the point. I was too angry to be lovable. I read 100 emails and chats between them. I honestly think I would like her if we met under different circumstances. I could see how he would find her warm and caring next to me. I GOT IT. I hope you will get it too, dear. It's for your sake!<p>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited September 07, 2000).]

Bernzini,<P>Here's another good thread on resentment. Hope it helps:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/001100.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/001100.html</A>

Hey, guys. . .<P>I wasn't blowing you off. Some things came up and I couldn't respond to you right away, I am sorry. Actually, I didn't know how to respond without sounding foolish, it took me a while to think of something to say.<P>You all have given me some wonderful advice, which I will definately heed. That you for caring so much. Burned Spouse, Schizzo, TT, Justher, Nelli, you have been remarkably kind to give me a listening ear. In the last couple of days, I have passed milestones in letting go of resentment, and I feel that I have forgiven 100%--the affair itself is nothing to me now. BUt I think that it is way too late, and the problems in my marriage that lead to the affair have unltimately lead to the end of the road.<P>This website reminds me of how hard I tried and how much I care, and I wish that I had found it much sooner, it might have helped. So I haven't looked at it lately. I am wondering what's the point. Plus, I need to get on with my life now, and stop languishing about what might have been.<P>My husband told me it was over, he was through with me, and that he never wants me to call or write to him again unless there is an emergency with the little guy. He is moving out of our apartment in Japan and sending my stuff back (MUCH easier said that done.)<P>He still maintains that the relationship is over and that he wants nothing more to do with me. He says that he is contacting a lawyer, not only for divorce, but to sue me for libel, because he says that I have spread lies about him. (Not true, but I should have kept my mouth shut to some people.) He won't do it. I don't even know if he will get on the ball with divorcing me, but I am going to heed his wishes not to contact him--even to ask about the divorce.<P>I would feel very, very bad, except that I know it is all talk. I don't think that he hates me too much, he just wants to strike out at me. He wants to make me as guilty as he feels. He IS feeling guilty, feeling like too much damage has been done to ever make a go of it again. Unfortunately, I bugged him about it for too long before I understood the MB principals, and I am pretty sure that I finished things for him. I blew it.<P>Once he gets rid of the apartment, I will not be able to ever go back to Japan. And so, there goes any hope of reuniting. In 18 month's time, (when his tour has ended) I am sure that he will have lost all feelings for me, I don't know. Or Miss Kitty will have reclaimed her spot as soulmate (this is going to be a hoot! Give me a front-row seat, and pass the popcorn and Junior Mints. This is going to be an academy-award winner!)I pretty much have the idea that it's a done deal and I have to pick up and go on the best I can.<P>Some of my job interviews have been fruitful, and I have even gone down to the recruiter to see if I can get into the army reserves. I had a hard time letting my career go to follow my husband, and I figured that while I still have to chance, I can make up for it a little. I am a bit on the old and chunky side (I don't really LOOK either, but the army has their standards) and the recruiter was like: "Uhhhhhh, alrighty then.") I have started to work out hard and am painfully getting used to running again, and I really needed a reason to. This is it: If I can get in before the end of the month, I get reinstated in my rank. This has given me an objective, something to look forward to.<P>It will be nice to be back in shape, too. I have kind of let myself go since this all happened. I have really taken all of this misery out on my own self, by alternately starving myself then stuffing myself. And then sitting around too much, feeling miserable. Does wonders for the metabolism.<P>Anyways, I am kind of numb right now, I don't exactly know what to feel except that I have hope and I am looking forward for the future--I doubt anything as bad as this could happen to me for a while. I am excited about getting back out into the workforce again and to earn a living for myself.<P>As for my kids, I don't know. The little guy really hasn't said much except that he loves dad and wants to see him. This is the worst part--I never wanted to take my son away from his dad. I don't want to raise a little boy without an influence from his father, I know how important this is, knowing that my brothers probably all would have been worse hoodlums than they already were without having my dad around (they weren't that bad--I was just the only girl in the family, kinda had to stand back and watch a lot of the time.)<P>I will definately not stand in the way of my husband seeing his child, but, I am not going to give the kid up. That's the one thing that I am just plain stupid-mean about: I will not let that woman have anything to do with my child, unless he marries her (hah! As if!) because a woman who just dumps her own children to run off with a married man has no business raising anyone else's children.<P>My husband has threaten to sue me for custody, too. Just threats. He won't do it, either. He has no justification to do it, plus, he can't have the little guy by himself at present.<P>Well, guys, this is it: Another one bites the dust.<P>I might check back on some of ya'll to see how your doing, but I don't think I have too many more questions that I need to ask for awhile. Wish me luck, I am going to need it. But I think that I have a handle on things, and I feel pretty positive.<P>I will miss him, though. I don't think that I could ever love another man as much, but then I might be wrong, there, too. We all know by now that love is what you make of it, that it is something you do, not what you say. <P>I will keep your words in mind if and when (if is better) I come across the next poor chap to get saddled with me. Anyways, good luck to you all--be happy! Life is way to short to be sad!

Berzini:<P>I remember when you first came to this board looking for answers. You still wanted to repair your marriage then. But you know I don't think you really ever gave MB principles a real try. You remained trapped in your anger and bitterness and you remain there still. It's still there in this last post. <P>You got some good responses in the last few days from some people who really care about you. No one but you can decide when it's time to let go of your marriage, but I'll tell you one thing...if you let go right now you will always wonder if you could have saved the marriage. <P>If somewhere deep inside you still want this marriage, then the possibility still exists...your H has given you every clue...but you refused to let him back in...fending him off with your anger until he defensively reacts with anger of his own.<P>Get on with your life if you must, but realize that marriage is a 50-50 proposition and you are walking away as if you had no culpability in the death of the marriage.<BR>Don't ignore the problems just for the sake of moving on. Self-examination is difficult and no fun, but it is necessary to keep from repeating the same mistakes again and again.<P>Take some time to work on ways in which you can become a better partner and person. Each of us can always do that. Some day your H will reappear in your life...that's always going to be because of your son...God grant that the person he meets at that time will have let go of all the anger and bitterness and, at last aware of their own shortcomings, has made a successful effort to change and become the best person she can be. <P>Eighteen months is not that long...but it is time enough for real change. I hope you take the time for yourself and your family.<P>If you decide to move on, I wish you luck.<P>If you decide to try again, we be here to furnish that support you've never had before.<BR>And this is the best support of all...because we've been there and come back alive.<P><BR>Buffy

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