After this wretched weekend,my H has recomitted to US and has written a "no contact" letter to OW. It doesn't exactly state the sentiments I had hoped it would, but I guess it's a start and I should be happy with the effort he has made.<P>Please tell me if you think it's sounds good enough to convince her that he is dedicated to me and our marriage once and for all. Tell me if you read into any loop holes, and if you think he could have done better.<P>9-11-00<BR>Dear OW,<P>I am writing this letter for one reason only. All communication between you and me must come to an end immediately! If C and I are ever going to resolve our differences and re-establish the trust we once had, you and I cannot communicate with each other at all.<P>I realize now that I never should have considered trying to find Starlight products for you or even considered selling you my Miata.<P>It certainly isn't anything personal, but I'm sure that you can understand C's position on the issue and if you were in her shoes that you would feel exactly the same as she does.<P>I love her and she deserves a 100% effort from me to make our lives together as happy as possible.<P>I wish you well, and I will appreciate your cooperation in this matter. <P>Sincerely,<BR>H<P>Thanks so much, look forward to your posts.<BR>Cathy

Hi Catplay,<P> I like the part where he says he loves you and wants to commit %100 effort....I DON"T like the part about "that it's not personal and that she could understand C's position on the issue",.... it needs to be HIS position. It sounds like "my W made me write this" and he doesn't say anything about regretting getting involved with her......<P>Just my 2cents....!!! LU

I agree with Lu there.<P>One final note, the ending should be signed, "Thank you for your cooperation in this matter." But followed up with something like this, "However, please be advised that should you disregard my (yes, he must say "my") wishes and attempt to re-establish contact I will not waiver in my decision..." You get the picture. He can thank her for her cooperation, but not in such a way that it feels like *her* choice. Then she can always *choose* to NOT cooperate later on. Be sure that door is closed forever.<P>Best of luck, and big kudos to your husband for accomplishing this.

Catplay, I've replied to you before, but don't think you've answered back. So I'm not sure you read what I write...<P>Anyway, I posted our letter a few days ago, but will copy it here in case you missed it:<P>OW,<P>I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children I have come to realize that I must never see, or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that Cindy did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay Cindy for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness.<P>I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me.<P>I have made Cindy fully aware of the relationship, and she has read all the emails and chats we have had. There is virtually no detail of our relationship (yours and mine) that she is not aware of.<P>Please respect my desire to end our relationship, in its totality. Please know that any further attempts to establish contact will be monitored by Cindy who has access to all my email accounts, including passwords. I have committed to Cindy that I will not allow any phone contact to occur.<P>Signed, h (sent by email with cc to me)<P>This was almost verbatim from the book SAA and you are free to use it. I don't think we could have written anything half as good.<P>It must be impersonal, Jennifer Harley coached us on this. No dear OW, no wish you well and certainly not sound like a request. You two are telling her not to contact you, period!<P>Cathy, hope this helps.<BR>

Dear Schizzo,<P>I'm so sorry if I haven't answered your posts back to me, I love all of your responses and have taken all of your advice seriously and to heart. I do certainly appreciate your time and responses. Sorry...<P>This letter has bugged me b/c like I said it wasn't exactly the sentiments I wanted him to write but felt I should accept any attempt at this point from him to end this once and for all. But I hate to settle for second best, you know?<P>I am waiting on enough responses to critique the letter and ask him lovingly to rewrite it. I hope he won't take it as a LB.<P>I appreciate and love all of you for taking the time to help me out, I am so anxious to mail this letter, but I want it to sound final. I hated the Dear, wish you well, and giving her the impression it is I who so needed him to write the letter, instead of his needing to write the letter.<P>Thanks all<P>Cathy

Ok, I'm going to jump off the deep end here and say that if I were the OW in these situations I would be more inclined to believe the no contact letter written by Catplay's husband (although it probably needs to be rewritten) simply because it sounds like it was written by himself and not his wife.<P>As for the sample no contact letter from SAA...why does this letter have to be constructed to give the impression that it is a joint effort? Why would the OP care? Their concern is only the WS and what he/she is feeling, not with BS's feelings or pain. <P>To include references to BS's pain and suffering makes it look as if the letter has been dictated to WS by BS. <P>To be convinced of WS sincerity about recommitting to his wife(and that's one purpose of the letter), I think the letter does need to be more concerned with "WS's" feelings about the need to end the affair (supposably to try to rebuild the marriage). WS is trying to convince OP that this is his/her decision. But it just sounds like the BS wrote it.<P>If the main purpose of this letter is to convince the OP that the affair is over and no further contact will be accepted, then to be convincing the letter needs to sound like it was personally written by WS, or at least written by WS in the total knowledge and awareness of BS and implimenting the strictures placed upon further communications (although most OPs would still find a way if they thought there was a possibility that the letter was not sincere on the part of the WS).<P>The reason I feel this way is that at one time my H and I wrote this type of letter to OW and it was a letter written only to appease me. It didn't sound sincere and eventually served as a challenge to OW to test the limits of her power and influence. <P>To be useful this letter need to be very convincing. Just a thought.<P>Buffy<P> <p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited September 13, 2000).]

Dear Lu, WIFE, schiz, and Buffy,<P>Thank you all so much for your input.<P>Lu, I think I would really like for him to mention the degradation this A caused him and his family.<P>Wife, it does sound as if he is asking her to appease me at this time, and you are so right, it shouldn't be a choice for her to co-operate with this, it is not her choice, it is a given!<P>schizzo, I don't believe he will go so far as to use the sample letter, I truly believe he still has mucho affectionate feelings for her and does not want to give them up as of yet and I need to really study and do Plan A, BIG TIME! I think that will be the only way he forgets her forever. She is slick with the affection and attention. She had him way up on a pedestal!<P>Buffy, I wrote another post for you, so we could discuss your post to me. <P>Thanks to all of you for helping me out!<BR>Cathy

Dear Catplay:<P>All in all, I don't think your H's letter is "far off the mark". A little soft??? Yes, but it could be worse...and it's still much better than the NO CONTACT message my H used.<P>In fact, my H's message was so pitiful (sorry H!) that the OWH called me saying my H was still trying to worm his way back into OW's heart---OUCH---OH MY! <P>I tried and tried and tried to convince my H to word the message in a way that was MUTUALLY AGREEABLE to both of us--but I LOST. Unfortunately, this has caused me a great deal of resentment in our rebuilding efforts.<P>I absolutely ADORE the SAA letter. In fact, using only the first two paragraphs of Schizzo's letter says ENOUGH as far as I'm concerned. I, personally, would not WANT to be mentioned any more than necessary. <P>BTW, my H thought my meddling in "his letter" was a HUGE lovebuster--but in a way, his inability to allow me to "add my input" was even more inconsiderate. Not that it's a lovebusting contest...LOL...I still think I lost--BUT, affairs are SO MUCH about selfishness and what the WS WANTS...and at some point there needs to be mutual agreements. IMHO, a "joint" NO CONTACT letter is a PERFECT WAY to begin the REBUILDING PROCESS. And, I truly and honestly wish that my H had been more flexible in this area. In my eyes, he *failed* us/family, yet again .<P>Originally posted by Buffy:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>As for the sample no contact letter from SAA...why does this letter have to be constructed to give the impression that it is a joint effort? Why would the OP care? Their concern is only the WS and what he/she is feeling, not with BS's feelings or pain.<P>...and, also:<P>The reason I feel this way is that at one time my H and I wrote this type of letter to OW and it was a letter written only to appease me. It didn't sound sincere and eventually served as a challenge to OW to test the limits of her power and influence. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>With all due respect to Buffy, the problem was NOT WITH THE LETTER, but most likely the result of OW's flat out failure to *acknowledge* and/or RESPECT the letter-- or possibly (???) somehow the insincerity of the letter was communicated to OW????--**NOTE: Buffy--just hypothesizing here--no harm intended as I am not fully aware of your situation. <P>But, I stand firm with my opinion that if SAA's letter is presented by a husband/wife "team effort" it has a good chance of being respected. Ironically, OW's NO CONTACT letter to my H was pretty much "by the book"--H's initial response was that it was written by her H and meant *nothing*. Now, when he looks back, he realizes that this NO CONTACT letter was for the benefit of her marriage--and, was appropriately BLUNT and NOT open to interpretation. He realizes that her letter was a *gift* to her H. My H now feels as though he *lost out* on his opportunity to take a RESPECTFUL/HONORABLE "last stand" in presenting himself to OW as the person he truly is: a loving husband/father <sigh>. <P>IMHO, the no contact letter is to benefit the BS--just as much, if not more, than to "set the record straight" with the OP. Making it a joint effort informs the OP that the spouse is AWARE of the EFFORT and that they are BOTH--as a team--attempting to come to terms with the affair.<P>Why would the OP care if it is a joint effort? Well, maybe OP won't. But, why--as a team--should H/W be concerned at this point what OP thinks? As long as my H's intentions are TRUE/PURE and we stick together--UNITED AS A TEAM--why would we be concerned with what OW thinks?????<P>If OW is only concerned about her own pain, than sobeit. But, trust me, my H's message--although "from his heart" was NOT a NO CONTACT LETTER...it was interpreted as a mushy "I'm so sorry I hurt you, but I still care about you, I'm just not allowed to see you anymore" piece of #!@% (sorry again H!)--- --BLECH/PUKE.<P>For what it's worth, if nothing else, <B>have him change the word "if" in the first paragraph</B>.<P>Moreover, here's how the letter would need to be written for ME to find it acceptable:<P>9-11-00<BR>OW,<P>I am writing this letter for one reason only. All communication between us must cease immediately. As C and I begin rebuilding our marriage and re-establishing the trust we once had, it is imperative that you and I never again meet or communicate.<P>I love my wife and my family. They deserve a 100% effort from me in making them feel happy, secure, and complete.<P>Please respect my desire to end our relationship, in its totality. Please know that any further attempts to establish contact will be shared with C. <P>Signed, H<P>OH MY--did I totally change it???? Not much left, huh? <P>Don't get your hopes up too high---MY HOPES got crushed. And, don't push so hard that he refuses to send his letter---at least his letter is a *start*.<P>BTW, I still think you're "way ahead of the game"---even if he sends his letter "as is".<P>Praying that your H is sincere in his mind and strong in his heart. Peace, ~Marie<p>[This message has been edited by ohmy_marie (edited September 13, 2000).]

Lame, lame, lame.<P>He needs to put something in it about having screwed up by having the affair.<P>Leave out the "it's nothing personal." Of course it is personal (don't put that either.<P>It should not be "apologetic" towards her but it should be apologetic towards you.<P>He should use the example in Surviving An Affair.<P>Oh yeah, Leave off the "Dear" at the beginning.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A><p>[This message has been edited by Chris (CA123) (edited September 13, 2000).]

Cathy,<P>Can you possibly get him to agree to joint counselling with Jennifer or Steve?<P>I hear what Oh my Marie is saying. I look back and am so happy we had Jennifer in the middle. I think my h's letter would have been all mush too if she had not been so firm with him. It is so much easier for someone else to tell him. And contrary to popular opinion (and mine before this experience), men often listen better to another woman than to a man, especially one with so many credentials. Do you know she co-wrote SAA with her dad? Her full name is Jennifer Harley Chalmers and she is a wonderful lady.<P>Anyway, not meant as a sales pitch. I just look back and thank God she was so firm in insisting first that he send one and second exactly what to say. It worked for us. She only attempted one contact when he purposefully left himself open on ICQ. He did not acknowledge her note and told me that night that he was sorry and proceeded to delete ICQ.<P>Jennifer convinced us it HAS TO sound impersonal and even harsh. So what if the OP thinks it was dictated by the wife? The part about the wife monitoring all attempts is also crucial.

Marie, <BR>Thanks for your input and concern.<BR>I wonder if this is the best my H can do, and maybe I should just accept it and forget about it. But, somehow the letter does not satisfy my grievance and I still feel a slight pang of anger about the entire A, not just the most recent upheaval. I would like for him to have addressed the entire ordeal, not just the products or the car thing.<P>Chris,<BR>Thank you for your concern. I too think he needs to address his screw-up with the whole A., and it is PERSONAL, very much, I don't take that sentence to lightly.<P>schizzo,<P>I wish we could afford the telephone consultation with the Harley's. My H's absence here really put us behind the financial eight ball and we still struggle to get caught up. Hopefully, we can use the books to help us for now. Speaking of the books, I, like so many here on MB have spent a small fortune on books. Come to find out they have been a real sore spot for my H.<P>He revealed to me that the books lying around the house was a constant reminder of his wrong doings, the children could see them and sometimes maybe a guest or friend could see them and he began to despise the books and feel more and more guilty, thinking there would never be a way for him to escape this trauma.<P>You never know, do you, what triggers someone else's behavior.<P>Thanks for your post, as always.<P>Cathy<p>[This message has been edited by Catplay (edited September 13, 2000).]

I have written H a letter stating what I thought about the letter. I didn't save it in a file because it would be difficult for this pea sized brain to try and display it from a file to all of you.<P>Anyway, thanks to all of you who supported and counseled me on this issue, the jist of my letter says that it was too soft and appeared to be apologetic for troubling her and to just bare with him so he can appease me at this time. I also mentioned he could have said something in his letter that would have addressed the cruelty and injustice of their affair, not just the most recent incidence. Because by G, if he's going to notify her of the end of all contact, I would at least like for it to mention their entire ellicit being and how wrong and selfish it was.<P>If I get the time I'll post the contents of it so you all can lambast me for LB's.<P>Just kidding, thanks<BR>Cathy

To ohmy_marie:<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>With all due respect to Buffy, the problem was NOT WITH THE LETTER, but most likely the result of OW's flat out failure to *acknowledge* and/or RESPECT the letter-- or possibly (???) somehow the insincerity of the letter was communicated to OW????--**NOTE: Buffy--just hypothesizing here--no harm intended as I am not fully aware of your situation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No offense taken and you're probably right that nothing written would have made any difference to that crazy "b****h". See Catplay's post to me to see what she did to challenge it.<P>It appears to me that I have misinterpreted the reason for writing the "no contact" letter in the first place. If I am getting what you are saying correctly then you see this letter as more a symbolic gesture on the H's part to begin to heal the hurt caused his wife and family by the affair and to convey to OP a united picture of H & W working on rebuilding the marriage with the first step being a formal announcement that all contact is over and will no longer be tolerated. I can see this. Just don't ask me to see it have much effect on OP.<P>With this in mind, it makes very little difference what goes into the letter. What is important is the resolve to back up the "no contact" provisio therein. How the H handles the first few attempts at contact after the letter is what is really important. If he is consistent and conveys his resolve to not accept any contact then the letter will have served part of it's purpose.<P>I have no problem with the way you rewrote the SAA sample. Without so many references to BS it still conveys a united front and <BR>gets the message across that all contact must end, although I too would like to see a reference to the affair being wrong.<P><BR>Hey, Cathy:<P>Are you now as confused as we are? It probably doesn't matter away...he'll probably write the letter the way he wants anyway. I can understand this is hard...to deliberately hurt someone you once (thought you) loved. But on the other hand...he didn't have any problem hurting you did he?<BR>The difference is the motivation. And in the end, if he really means it, then she is better off to realize that now, then spend anymore time trying to revitalize their relationship (if that's what she's trying to do). You might remind him of that. A half-hearted attempted "no contact" letter could still leave her with some hope. For everyone's sake it needs to end now, once and for all.<P><BR>Buffy<P> <BR> <P> <p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited September 14, 2000).]