Well, after an hour and a half talk with our counselor at work today, I think I am not going around half blind right now. She basically layed out my whole affair right before me. Told me I had been used, hoodwinked, and there I stood, EXPOSED!<P>Started from the begining. Told her about myself, my W, the OW and her family. She asked me a few questions about how things got started in the affair. Before I could finish, she had labeled the OW as a home wrecking B---H. Never cared anything about me, doesn't matter, and only wanted to destroy what she couldn't have. She has done this before. She told me that nobody could make me get rid of the OW until I was ready to be finished with her. I told her about the plan that I have made, letter of no contact, building trust again by being open about my day, and forwarding all e-mail.<P>She said the OW was not worth the time of day from anyone, including her H, and to treat her as if she had dropped off the face of the earth. She did warn me that this kind of woman will try to make contact again. Once she finds out that peppermint and I are rebuilding, she will try to grab me again so I sould have a plan for handeling that and put it into play when she tries to make contact. In no way do I want to talk to her now.<P>I think one thing that I did find out was there were a lot of factors that led me into this kind of action. I am not trying to justify my action, there is none. I am trying to prevent myself from ever going here again. My mother did pass away a couple of months before I started this affair. She told me that this could have been my way of handeling the grief in my life and that I may have needed a way to let my emotions out. I don't know about all of this, but I am trying to be open and understand the why part.<P>We have an appointment with Steve on Monday. Also, we are going to set up an appointment with the counselor that I saw today and go together. She was really good and interesting. One thing is for sure, I can see clearly now. I feel cheep, dirty, filthy, mean, conniving, I could go on and on here. All the things the OW is. Sorry guys, I just wanted to keep you posted. I am ready to put the final nail in the coffin and end this affair once and for all. Now I need to get the burden off of peppermint. I hope all of you guys here can give me a little help and encouragement.<P>Where did all this light shining in my eyes come from???<P>......fs

Wow, I didn't know peppermint's sister was a counselor! <P>Kidding! <P>God bless you and give you strenth, fs!<BR>And peppermint, too!<P>I'm setting up an appt. with Harley, too. This guy must be crazy busy!<P>Aloha to you both!<P>Leilana <P>Amended in case you didn't catch my strange sense of humor.<p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited September 15, 2000).]

As you, my H began his affair a few months after his mother's death. I also thought this was a way of avoiding the grieving process. Now almost 3 years later, he's going through the withdrawal of the affair, embarassment of how this ow "fooled" him, and now resuming the grieving of his mother's death. <P>He too thought this woman was a wonderful person. She's made a career of destroying other people's lives. He now learns that she's a joke within her profession and considered a liar and a cheat. She recently destroyed a co-worker's career and before the woman got into her car from being fired, this ow was on the phone to corporate headquarters asking for her job. She didn't get the job and the word is that her days are numbered.<P>He thought no one knew what he was doing but now finds out that he was quite the topic of conversation and gossip. In his industry he has taken great pains throughout the years as being known as an honest and trustworthy person-in a short amount of time, he did so much to destroy that reputation.<P>He now lives with the fact that he almost destroyed his family for this piece of trash. I'm sorry that's the only way I can describe her. I think he has lost his daughter permanently. She spent her puberty years with this mania-I shutter to think of the damage he's done.<P>ow is still making contact. Following him, hanging up on his voice mail, sending mail to his office, calling our home and hanging up, telling people that they are still together, etc. This has been quite a "ride" coupled with the fact my husband tends to drink way too much when he's stressed and I am very ill. <P>Brace yourself for when she does make contact. My H said when she did initiate contact it threw him, and the thought came into his mind, "Well, I could talk to her or maybe have lunch and no one would know." He said then sanity came back to him. Please be prepared. Don't dwell on it as it keeps her in your lives but she will try to contact.<P>Take care, love your wife, and stay with this counselor-she sounds wise.<P>

Firestorm,<BR>I know this sounds simplistic, but the best plan for handling the OW calling you after the "no contact" is begun is to say "Please don't call me again." followed by hanging up. No listening. No explaining. <P>My H says he leaves her email unread, unless it obviously has to do with work.<P>Something about your big thought swing from seeing the OW as desirable to now she is evil troubles me. It doesn't matter that she tried to trick you or whatever...at some point you agreed to being in that relationship. I think your search into "why" is a good thing.<P>Be an excellent husband.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

I have to agree w/ Lor....what if the OW was a great woman that made a mistake like you...not all OP all horrible and that is not the reason to end the A...you end an A because its the RIGHT think to do <P>MY 2 cents.

FS, You'll never know how much good you are doing by posting here.<P>People (such as myself), with almost no hope of reconciling, let alone having their spouse "wake up" and realize what happened, really & truly get a big nudge to keep going.<P>Remember, it seems so clear now what happened, but it may come back that you really don't know what you are doing. Just put one foot in front of the other & keep going. Lean on each other when you have to.<P>Thanks!<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Leilana,<P>No, the counsoler is not peppermints sister, but she is good. Peppermint and I are planning on going together to see her again. By the way, I showed her this web site so I know she is probably going to be following my post here.<P>AM Hurt,<P>Thanks for your reply. I though I handled thinks very well with my mothers death, but now I see that I didn't let the emotions out. We are supposed to be strong tough guys as firefighters in the face of the public. Sometimes that carries over to our private selves.<P>Lor,<P>Right now I let my voice mail screen all of my outside calls. If she does get me on the phone, I plan on doing exactly what you said. One other thing, she has told her H that she is going to get me back for not leaving peppermint. OKAAAAAY........<P>Garden Girl,<P>You are right. You end an affair because it is the right thing to do. I decided it was time to put this one to an end before peppermint ever found out about this the second time. When she saw my W last Wednesday and laughed in her face and told her that she knew what she was, but she had what she wanted, I think my opinion was right about her. Many things opened my eyes about her, but NOBODY does what she did to my W. I know that sounds like a double standard for me to say that, but it is how I feel. I got into this by my choice and I was not forced into it.<P>Chris,<P>Many thanks for your reply. I know people get involved in affairs for many different reasons. One thing that I do know, some of the time it is not about sex. The OW's H and peppermint have talked since dday2. He is hung up on the illusion that everytime myself and his W were together, we were having sex. Not true at all. She was to busy running him down and I was to busy listening. I think most men who have been betrayed by their W think they are out climbing in bed every chance they get. This is simply not true at all. Please hang in there and if there is ever anything you want to ask me, please feel free to do so.<P>Thanks so much to all of you guys for being here to support each other.

Fire,<P>I'm most impressed with you (& Peppers's) soul searching and you sincere effort to heal.<P>Keep up the good work.<P>------------------<BR>You may be just somebody in the world, but you may mean the world to somebody

SadnLonely,<P>Thanks for your support and thoughts for both of us. One question that has been asked by several people on this site is, "What is different from last time?". I am putting this all into a different post that I will write later. <P>Chris (CA123)<P>How are you doing????<P>fs