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Where to begin... my story is like so many I've followed for the past 12 months. After a year of ups and downs I believe that I'm coming othe end of the the line. I've followed so many of you for the past year that I feel like a voyer into the lives of close friends.<P>I don't know how much I can add to the volumes I've read but at this point I just need some encouragemant from any survivors out there...and for the record, in my book survivors are not necessarily success stories...<BR>they are simply survivors from one of life's greatest tests (or is it nightmares?)<P>8/87 marry high school sweetheart of 7 years and begin life's greastest journey together<P>Next 12 years are ups and down of any<BR>marriage, put each other through graduate school, build careers, buy dream house, travel, try to start family etc. etc.<BR>Basically enjoy life and marrige to each other (so I thought)<P>8/99 Find note from OM (younger, single co- worker..of course)professing love for my wife and encouraging her to leave her husband<P>9/99 Wife swears they are "just friends" and swears that it is over and I begin the worst ride of my life<P>10/99 find this web site, read everything, and I mean EVERYTHING..start counseling with <BR>Steve H. and snooping like mad following my wife's every movement.<P>11/99 - 2/00 Believe that we made great progess and that I am changing the LB behaviors my wife finds so harmful to our marriage<P>2/4/00 one week after a vacation to the Carribean my wife leaves me a note that basically says our marriage has been over for a year and I should "move on", since she "doesn't love me like a wife should"...Panic, despair and everything that everyone else has experinced sets in and I begin a stronger Plan A than I was doing for the previous 4 months<P>2/00 - 4/00 Wife waffles back and forth, her parents tell her she is throwing everything away, I keep my family in the dark<P>4/4/00 At Steve's direction I (prematurely) try plan B for 5 days and then fall apart<P>Easter -I catch the 2 "soulmates" at my SIL house while she is out of town, local police (who I know) show up and word spreads throughout the small town we live in...to add insult to injury the story going around town is that "I beat my wife " and thats why she left the house.<P>5/00 She "consults" a lawyer to determine her rights and at the lowest point in my life I consider using my 12 gauge for a purpose it was never intended.<P>Memorial Day / 00 I catch wife with OM "having a picnic" and stop just short of using my Louisville Slugger to drive his skull over the left field wall.<P>6/00 My partners tell me to take a "leave of absence" from the company I helped found since I haven't been productive for the past 4 months.<P>6/15/00 At Steve's suggestion I take a long vacation to get some perspective on the situation.<P>7/1/00 Wife moves from SIL house into own apartment "since we are seperated" and she needs a place to live.<P>7/00 Wife and I spent many days together and things seem like they are turning the corner<P>7/25/00 I receive notice of a court date to settle "our marital difficulties"...I explain to wife that neither seperation nor divorce is the answer and court date gets cancelled<P>8/00 13th anniversary is spent together and a wonderful time had by all, however the attempt too distance herself from me continues and I try to carry out the storngest Plan A that I can with Steve's coaching.<P>Today - I sit here wondering why I continue to bother. I've counselled for nearly one year, I've read every book published about this nightmare and I simply feel like I am out of gas...The problem, is that much like the Jackson Browne song, everytime I think that I am "over her" here come those tears again.<P>Please somebody; NSR, K, Chris, SHA, JL Medic, LostVa,Suse,Duncan...ANYONE give me a good reason to keep going.<P>Jack<P>

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DBT:<P>I am not much on offering advice these days but I wanted to offer you my support in this difficult time.<BR>Your pain is so obvious and I am so sorry you have to be hear. You obviousoy have been reading the info on this site and appear to be well read on the subject of infidelity so telling what you should do would be redundant. I am not sure if you followed my story( I am Patient Love aka untallnikba) at all but if you didn't I will give you a bit of background:<P>Around this time last year (not sure of the exact date) my husband (2 soulmates aka being a better Arik) fell in love with a co-worker (happens4Areason aka brynn) who lived 1000 miles away. Their only contact was phone, email and IM chatting...regardless they feel in hot and heavy. He reavealed his affair to me on Oct. 6th and went away to sort things out - she met him there and they were intimate for the 1st and only time. <BR>This is not the end of the story though. Although he never left the house his affair continued through to the end of March 2000.<P>I can tell you it was hell on my and there were many times I wanted to quit but never did. During the time his affair was on he said many things that caused me pain and heart ache but I know now that it was the adiction and "the fog" speaking.<BR> <BR>We have been rebuilding since March and are getting so much better now. He is "in love" with me now and shows it in many little ways. They may not be much to some but to me they are big- cleaning the kitchen, getting the kids ready for bed, helping me with dinner, surprising me with a huge ice-cream sundae with 2 spoons so we can share...little things to some but to me they mean a lot.<BR>So, what does this mean for you...I'm not really sure...I just wanted to give you my success story and let you know that sometimes it pays to hang in there even when it seems like it will never be worth it again. Only you will know for sure when you have had enough, you are the best judge of what you can live with and take. Follow your heart and make your decision based on that.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P><p>[This message has been edited by Patient Love (edited September 11, 2000).]

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{Downbound Train},<P>Why keep going?...<BR>...the question of all longterm Plan A-ers...<P>While your in Plan A...<BR>...you still have a sufficient amount of love...<BR>...you have some hope...<BR>...there is (usually) some amount of contact...<BR>...some <I>good</I> feelings...<P>When those feelings go away...<BR>...and the pace of that "drain" excelerates...<BR>...it is really time for Plan B.<P>Remember that both Plans (A & B) have to be driven by <B>your</B> feelings...<BR>...not just the situation of where your W is at!<P>Once those tears become <B>all to <I>infrequent</I></B>...<BR>...it's time to move onto a real Plan B.<BR>When you can honestly say to yourself...<BR>..."yes... I can accept never being with her again..."<BR>...you're at the point of Plan B.<P>Until then...<BR>...the focus is that you will become a better spouse... not just for your W... but for you. The skills to be mastered during a Plan A... are skills of everyday relationships... and though the rewards are gotten from you spouse are small... in time you'll feel a closure kinship to everyone else you use these skills on.<P>Marriage is a beautiful relationship...<BR>...but it is not the <B>only</B> relationship.<P>When you can accept that being with your W isn't the only relationship worth working on...<BR>...reconsider Plan B.<P>Until then... Plan A is <B>the</B> plan of loving your neighbor.<P> [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Jim

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Dear Dtb,<BR>I can hear your pain in your post,I am lurking,but i felt i had to respond just to offer my support.Hope you find some peace today.<BR>Love and prayers,bethn

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Dear Dtb,<BR>I can hear your pain in your post,I am lurking,but i felt i had to respond just to offer my support.Hope you find some peace today.<BR>Love and prayers,bethn

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Only you alone know if it is worth it to keep on keeping on. After reading all the posts on this forum, I believe that if you truly love this woman, you should continue to Plan A & B <BR>There is always hope...<P>If however she is abusing your relationship, then maybe it is time to rethink your situation. In the meantime, it is time to work on you and make you the best person you can be. We always rely on approval from someone else and when we don't get it, then comes the trouble. <P>Wake up every day and count your blessings, no matter how small they are. Thank God for the good and the BAD things in your life and learn from every one of them. Ask for guidance to help you become the best man that you can be and then either one of two things will happen.<BR> 1. Your W will wake up and fall head over heals in love with you again.<BR> 2. You will be a much better person and will be able to bring so much love and goodness to another relationship when the time is right..<P>oh yeah..there is one more thing...You will become a person you really like...That is not a bad thing!

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Jack,<P>Why should you keep on going?? A very hard question, but it seems to me the answer is pretty straight forward. <B> Because you want to.</B><P>You have been counseling with the best and you don't feel you have made any progress. Your W has moved out. Where are the children? Are they with you?<P>Have you read Hurting Badly's post on differentiating yourself from spouse? Quite frankly if the love is gone from you then it is too late for Plan B. If it is there, then perhaps Plan B is really right for you.<P>My guess is to trust your in-laws. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] What you say? Glad you asked. Your in-laws know the kind of man and husband you are. They think their daughter is nuts for dumping you, they are right. Trust them. If you are good enough for their daughter, then you are good enough for someone elses daughter, and just maybe this daughter might appreciate what you have to offer.<P>Jack, if you feel in your heart you have given all you have got, and you can look at yourself and your children and feel that way, then maybe it is time to end it. If on the other hand, you feel you have more and you still want another chance to bring back the marriage, then hang in there.<P>The people here will support you in either decision. So think on this, pay attention to the advice given here, and come think out loud for abit to see where you really are.<P>It seems to me you cannot lose at this juncture. Your W is gone, she may come back or another woman will very likely enter your life and help you make it what it should be.<P>Now, get back to work on your business, and let your good efforts speak for themself and let God take care of the heavy lifting right now. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>God Bless,<P>JL

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DBT,<P>Wow! You've had a tough ride.<P>I'm a short time lurker whose wife was formerly a WS, now getting off the sidelines.<P>Why to continue? In Chapter 6 of the book "Surviving an Affair" (don't know if I can underline so I used quotes), J Harley-Chalmers & W Harley listed 4 reasons for a guy (Jon) who had really been through it to continue Plan A trying to save his marriage. The last 2 (three and four) may be relevant here.<P>The third reason was that Jon needed to know that if the marriage were to end, he had done his best to save it. Perhaps you know this by now. The key is not what someone else would say, but what you feel. The last reason they gave was that if the plan failed, it would kill Jon's love for his WS. Since you still have strong feelings for your WS, perhaps it would be good for you to continue a while, until sentiment turns to anger or indifference, or else (hopefully) things turn around.<P>I don't know what else to say; I hope for the best but if things don't turn around I'm concerned that you come out of this ok, and these 2 points seem relevant.<P>You have my admiration, and I'll hope for better times for you.

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Hey Train,<P>Everyone has pretty much said it all. I tried my best to reconsile with Val and she is still in the fog with no hope of it lifting.<P>I kept at it until I just could not do it anymore. That's when to go to Plan.<P>Youre not ready for that Plan yet Buddy.<P>Wishing us all the Best<P>Tim

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Thanks to all who replied. the compassion and understandin on this site always makes me rethink my jaded viw of the world.<P>Nicole, I remeber your struggle very well; and am amazed that you never quit, your perseverance (and current status) is inspiring.<P>Jim, Plan A has definitely been a plus for me. I am a better person than I was 12 months ago, Everyone has noticed! The stress of starting my own business and long work days made me a "bear" at home. I have adressed that part of my behavior. BUT I always thught that my W was a stronger person than she has demonsrated herself to be. In hindsight (yeah I knopw it's 20/20) I can't believe she didnt come to me and simply say "Hey you are to busy and I'm feeling ignored, you a ball of stess and we need to address how it's affecting OUR marriage, or you won't have one" That conversation never happened and THAT is what has me PO'd lately. After reading about 20 books and spending thousands with Steve, I don't think that I'll ever understand why she didn't come to ME first.<P>Alone1, Your name syas how I feel EVERYDAY. My W was truly my best friend and I don't think that aspect of our marriage could ever, ever be the same...and that S*CKS!<P>Starry, Yes I believe that I still do love my W, that belief is what has me hging on. However, lately I am beginning to wonder in one person truly can bring 2 together...I'm feeling worn out form doing all of the work.<P>Is she abusing our relationship? I don't know, I do know that we had/have a large circle of friends that we used to see socially and she ant go anywhere in our small city without fear of seeing someone that knows us and therefore still sneaks around with the Loser. MY hunch is that when she wants to enjoy and evening out in public she is more than happy to accept my invitation. My problem is that we almost always have a wonderful time together and then I get PO'd when she ignores me 2-3 days after we are out together...Basically, I am tired of "dating" MY WIFE!<P>JL, Your keen insight and wisdom is something that i have always admired. I was glad to see that you font time to comment. -I love your observation on my in-laws. My own MIL told me that she told W..."Well you sure have helped make him a valuable catch for the next woman" I DO pay attention and learn from the advice here, it just took me a long time to overcome the "I can do everything myself" attitude and actually ask for some help....Thanks...BTW, no kids and Yes I am back to work at my business, 3 months of liesure and felling sorry for my self was enough.<P>Still Hers, I no longer have my copy of SAA. I gave it to W over 3 moinths ago and asked her to read at least the first 90 pages..she never did to my knowledge. I figure as long as she has it, she may read it one day. Believe me I base little in my life on what others think, otherwise I'd be divorced by now. I believein the MB theroies and methodology. Right now I find my self at the crossreoads of continuing the same path or blazing a new trail as anger and indifference are the roadsigns that i see up ahead!<P>BTW, sorry to hear of you own situation...If I could offer any advice it would be to call Steve, I would't have made it this far without him.<P>Tim,<P>Love your ability to find humor when life keeps kicking you in the ...you know! I have watched your situation and, like you I don't see the fog lifting (I've seen heavier fog over the Golden Gate Bridge lift faster).<P>Thanks again to all who share their experiences here....<P>Know how sublime it is<BR>To suffer and be stong<P> <P>

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Hi DT,<P>Just a quick response. Keep posting, if nothing it is a good place to vent and recharge the batteries. I do hope that you find the energy to give it another try and if you need a little pumping up, you know where to come. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Yes, the fog over the Golden Gate is very think sometimes, but it does clear.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

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DT,<BR>The only thing I can add to the wisdom that's already been shared is to say it again--Love, Patience, Time. And when it is time for Plan B, do so. I went Plan A too long, and for me the turning point would have been at about 14-18 months when my feelings changed from hurt to anger & frustration and slid to coldness.<P>The good news is, love was always there and my H now adds to my lovebank every day. I believe him when he says he always loved me as well. His fog was deep & thick & now, he's more sunny to partially cloudy.<P>A year is a long time. For us it's been 2 1/2 years since his A started. But, I don't think of that as wasted time, afterall, I would have passed through those years anyway. I don't regret any of the POSITIVE actions or Plan A that I did. Had we divorced rather than reconciled, I would have felt I had done everything I could.<P>People do make it to the other side, and I know there was a time period no one would have laid any bets that Guard & I would make it--least of all me.<P>Set your goals, set your time periods for A & B, stay with counseling, and keep yourself healthy.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

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I also wanted to give you some encouragement:<P>Here is what I went through,,,,<P>3/99 I discover my h's 3 month long affair. I had suspected almost from the beginning.. H moves out for 2 weeks, comes home, we go on a vacation, and we get back, w/i one week he resumes affair.<BR>4/9/99 I discover affair is still on, and I kicked my h out of the house and tell him I am divorcing him. I retain lawyer, and we discuss dividing up property and financial settlement on house equity.. (This is before I found marriage builders or SAA as you can tell)..<P>My h immediately moves in with ow, I suspect it, but dont ask... H signed a lease on an apartment with her within 2 days of me kicking him out.<P>At this point I am kind of plan Bing because I didnt even want to talk to him or see him...<P>Within 2 weeks of h being out of house he begins calling my machine and my pager crying and saying he screwed up...<BR>We do not discuss reconcillation, at this time I still didnt have any hope yet.<P>5/15/99 I pick up a copy of SAA.. For the first time since this had been going on, I actually understood what was going on with my h. I also had hope for the first time that our marriage could survive this.<P>I was pleasant to my h during all of this, and I know he still loved me.. I didnt do plan A much because I didnt really know about it.... I did it on my own the whole 3 months I suspected him of the affair, but after discovery,, I couldnt be with him or see him or talk with him as long as I knew he had contact with her.. <P>My h also worked with this ow, so it made it difficult for him to get away from her.<P>I wrote my h a plan B letter immediately. I realized I was already doing a pretty good plan B, but I didnt really give my h much hope that I wanted to work it out. So I needed to communicate that I loved him and wanted our marriage, but I couldnt be around him while he was with her. Also, he was trying desperately to get his needs met by me and her.. He wanted to come to the house and take care of things, he wanted to talk with me,, he still wanted me in the picture. This gave me the evidence that ow could not meet all of his needs,, and what I did the next few weeks helped him realize it.<P>H read the plan B letter, and was sad and wrote back and said it would be difficult, but he would try not to contact me.. Within a day or two, he still called me. One time I was at work and he was crying on my pager.. I did not call him.. It was very difficult to do. H still stopped by the house when I wasnt there and tried to take care of things and he still left me notes even though I asked him not to... I then only responded to the portion of the note that was business...(as in finacial).. I did not respond to him saying he missed me or loved me or anything like that.<P>I did leave him some highlights of the SAA book and also of Private Lies to read. He read it and liked it.<P>At this point,, I decided to change my pager number because he still was contacting me and I could tell he was getting more desperate.. When he tried to page me and it was changed,, he flipped. He left me a letter and told me he would end it with ow, and he wanted to come home.<P>I still ignored him, one last time, and he wrote me one more note telling me he wanted to come home.<P>I paged him and left him a message that if and only if he ends it with ow, and wanted to make a serious effort toward saving our marriage that he could call me..<P>I got the phone call I was waiting for.. And that night we met and made plans for him to come home. 4 days later he ended it with the ow, brokethe lease on his apartment, and came home. It was June 8th/ 1999. Our 3rd wedding anniversary.<P>Little did I know how difficult it still would be,, and many times, I , like you felt like throwing in the towel. H was going through heavy withdrawal, as you may guess since he lived with ow...H was home physically, but not emotionally. I was prepared this time because I knew that as long as he was in withdrawal I would not get my needs met by him.. That was very accurate, and even know I knew it, it was still very difficult to handle. <P>9/9/99.. I suspected my h had been in contact with ow. This was gut feeling and by the way he was acting. I knew something was up. My h had changed shifts to be away from ow, but I confronted him on seeing her again. H broke down, cried and told me he needed help..... H said ow had just bought a house around the corner from us!!!!!!! H said he wanted his marriage but was struggling..<P>We went on a vacation, and after that,,things slowly and gradually got better. I started noticing very little steps of progress h was making.. For instance, he would smile a little more, or he would hug me, in general seemed a little bit more happier.<P>He began saying things like, "I am almost through this", "I can see the light at the end of the tunnel" etc.. These were just subtle things that I noticed. <P>Then one last time, I found out he was at ow house.. this was 11/99... and after I thought h was making progress... It was so difficult because I didnt think I could take it anymore,,, it was the roller coaster ride from hell and I wanted off!!!!<P>I wrote my h a letter, a very calm, nice letter stating that it was ok for him to leave me.. That I was going to be ok, and not to stay with me out of guilt.. <P>Within a week of the letter we put our house up for sale to move away from the ow.. (<BR>this was our brand new, newly built home, and it broke both of our hearts to have to sell it.)... But I was willing to do anything to get away from the ow. we had to drive by her house all the time as she was on the main street, and it was awful for both of us.<P>12/99.. christmas...and New Years.. For the first time, my h really started to seem to be his old self. H talked about the affair in past tense, he told me how strong the "pull" of the affair was. On new Years Eve he hugged me at midnight and cried,and told me how much he loved me....<P>From that point on, our relationship has done nothing but grow better and stronger than it ever was... Yes, we had some ups and downs, and trust is still getting built,, but we are truly happy! We did Survive and affair.. A very strong affair, and my h actually lived with her.. We were on the brink of divorce...<P>My advice to you is this. Everyone has their own boiling point on how much they can take. When you get to that point, you really need to plan B and do it the best you can... Sometimes letting go a little can do wonders for the WS. <P>Read SAA, and Private Lies.... especially chapt 13. If your spouse will read too, it will help her. She needs to be educated too. What helped my h is realizing what withdrawal was and knowing that there was hope for getting through it and for getting his feelings back for me. YOu have to trust this process.<P>I am a firm believer that like Harley states, that most affairs have to die a natural death. They are just too difficult to end cold turkey.. What is most important is that you need to follow your game plan... A lot of people dont trust the process and have a hard time with plan B,, Sometimes the WS has to realize the grass isnt greener, and that the ow or om cannot meet all their needs. I honestly believe if I didnt let go of my h and let him figure that out, he would still be wondering if he could be with ow or be happier.. Now he knows and he can move on.....<P>Good luck to you and God Bless... Hang in there!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by mickey65 (edited September 14, 2000).]

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DT:<P>You've had an interesting year---a bit of "yo-yoing" with respect to executing this plan is one of the problems that I see in it.<P>I'm always one to defer to Steve's advice, and I assume that you're still in counseling. But based on what you're saying (separated, been doing reasonable Plan A, past anniversary, resentment building, questioning motives), I think you're probably at a point where you need to move into a firm Plan B. <P>I think if you try to "Plan A" through the holidays, you may end up extremely disappointed if your wife doesn't act in the manner you want her too---and I would worry that you'd be completely out of love with her (I remember how bad the holidays were while my wife was having her affair). <P>So, I'd advuse you to "keep going" because statistics say that you have a good likelyhood of success, should you be able to hold out for about two years. But I'd caution you that it's probably time to go to a complete Plan B. You failed Plan B once---you said it was "premature"---was that your determination, or your wife's. And how did it fail, exactly...<BR>

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Mickey, thanks for your thoughts and comments.<P>I have read Private Lies (several times) both my MIL and mother have also read it, but W refuses to read anything and I stopped trying to educate her a long time ago.<P>K, thank you for your thoughts as well.<P>Yes, yo-yoing has been a big problem of mine, you are definitely not the first one to point that out.<P>I am still counseling with Steve, but down from nearly every week to once every 2-3 weeks...No I don't think I could make it through the holidays. Right now the Plan with Steve is to "take my temperature" at the end of this month and go from there<P>Yes I think Plan B may be around the corner, my reluctance has always been the notion that for ME, Plan B will definitely signify the end of the road. I've already gone further than I ever imaged that I could have 10-12 months ago.<P>As for the prior shot at Plan B: My SIL delivered the letter on Monday in early April and by Friday I was calling my W, SIL, MIL in tears and begging my W to come home...that didn't work!<P>Since then I've been executing a stronger Plan A with guidance from Steve, But at this point I feel worn out and indifference is a more common feeling these days than the depression I was in for months. My W has spoken to Steve 2-3 times since May(always at my request) and they seem to have a good rapport...I'm to ask her this week if she will call him again.<P>So I will hang in there a few more weeks but don't know where the road will turn after that. I just know that I tired of this existence. <P>Thanks again


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