My husband and I have been married for 20 years this June. We have 3 children. A couple of years ago my husband was acting really weird and walked out...only he didn't tell me that was what he was doing....he just left (I really thought he was going out of town to work as he often does)and didn't as much as call for 10 days. Anyway, it turned out that he was seeing someone (surprise!). I just asked and he said yes, of course he downplayed it and made it out to be much less than it was (called it a 1-night stand with a stranger) and said , of course, that it wasn't the reason he left. Well, it was the reason he left, I have no doubt there. We started working on our marriage (I was unaware of the scope of his affair at this time). He wanted to go to counseling and so on and so forth, which is totally out of character for him, before he moved back in. We started going to counseling together and he asked me if he could move back in. I let him. This was not a Christiaan counselor (it should have been). One of the things she said was that she wanted us both to understand that counseling may not end up resolving our problems and there was always the possibility that the marriage could end. I said "Yes, I know." and he said "That's not what either of us want. We are staying together!". We were there for marriage counseling not really affair counseling b/c at that point he was really still denying it was anything at all besides a 1-nite/stranger b/c he was so miserable and so hurt thing. The counselor didn't delve into and neither did I. Well, we went to many counsleing sessions and really resolved nothing. I was changing my whole view of things and was doing everything I could do to make my husband happy and have a happier marriage. I was no doubt alot nicer of a person, lots more giving and thoughtful of him than I had been in years. He was much more thoughtful acting toward me too and it looked as if things were really heading the right direction. Then I found a letter in his truck that had obviously been written by the other woman. It was a i love you so much/you hurt me so bad/ letter. Obviously not a one night stand. I was really devastated by that. It was me feeling the brunt of it for the 1st time. He still down played it and acted like it wasn't how it sounded. I really believe he was seeing her before and after our little separation(as he calls it). Well, turns out she is a much younger person that he has known for many years. She also was married/getting divorced. Well, somehow, we worked through it and kept trying to rebuild. We spent alot of time together. I even went on hunting trips and things with him at his request.Then one day I get a phone call from a man that tells me that my husband is seeing his wife. This is a different woman. She lives in another state. And so I find out he has seen this other woman for several years off and on when he has been out of town. I confront him with it and he admits to seeing her..downplays it saying it was nothing and he hadn't seen her for years etc. He cried and begged forgiveness and so on. I was really thrown for a loop. Then I cried and screamed and hit him about a thousand times. (All of this is totally out of character for me!) Questions go through my mind like..who is this man I have been married to for 20 years? Who is this woman I turned into .... why do I consider staying married to him? Well once again we were suposedly trying to work this out. I tried so hard to believe that he was honest with me and that it had been something years past. Well, about a year went by and I got another call.This time it was from the other woman herself She was furious with my husband b/c he wouldn't talk to her. She told me about how they had started seeing each other again and had seen each other about every 2 weeks for several months. AAAAAAAAAAAAA....That's me screaming. She told me she was in love with him and all this stuff. That she knew he loved me(joke) and that he would never leave me but that she wanted me to know what was going on for my own good(isn't that nice!). That was 3 months ago. He tried at first denying that he had seen her at all (for many years) but wound up admitting that he had seen her a couple of times. didn't know why. didn't even like her as a person. Loved me. Said he didn't know what was wrong with himself. Blah, Blah . So here I am. I don't know who I am anymore and I don't have a clue why I am still here. I do (if you can belive it) still love my husband and have not thrown him out. I started going to a Christian counselor and going back to church (and taking the children). He is going to, which is a surprise to me. I have not kicked him out..I don't know why. I have started realizing how many other things he does that are hurtful to me and this family..spends money wrecklessly, doesn't do very important things that need to be done in the home, puts himself 1st almost always. He is working on some of this now, but I don't know if that even matters. I really need some very serious help. I have had this thrown in my face 3 times in 2 years. I don't know what to do or how to handle any of this. I am lost and crazy feeling. Depressed for sure but still take care of my kids and work. Is there hope here? Am I insane? <P>------------------<BR>~Hope~

Hope...I am so very sorry for what you are going through. I can't reply right now because I'm too messed up and may not be giving you productive advice. I just want you to know that you are not alone. You are in my prayers. Stay strong and keep hanging on....

Welcome <B>Hope3</B> to the Marriage Builders - Infidelity Forum.<P>The people here represent both betrayed spouses and betrayers(waywards) alike and the occasional Other Woman/Man/Person (OP/OW/OM).<BR><B>All</B> of us are really here to try and build or rebuild our marriages... and we are trying to use principles and concepts that are espoused by Dr. Willard Harley of Marriage Builders(MB).<P>You situation merits a few more comments before I give my somewhat standard welcome wagon spiel...<P>I am impressed by how you have stood by your H after all he's done to you. There must be some strong love there... This is a good place to honestly and openly discuss your concerns, and ideas on the strength of your marriage,,, and it's weaknesses too.<P>More welcome wagon stuff...<P>There is a wealth of information here at this site, starting from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/" TARGET=_blank>Marriage Builder's Home Page</A>.<P>If you're new to the ideas being presented here at MB start off with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts</A><P>Many of us need to start immediately working on our marriages and a <B>sound</B> understanding of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A> is crucial! You have, maybe without knowing about it been doing a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>. Whether you continue or not (move to <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>) will be up to you... but definitely ask the people here. Give more background... where you are at emotionally... status of counseling etc.<P>You'll see a barrage of "terms" which you might guess the meaning of... but an alternative is to look up what they mean at this site... Words like (click on them to find out):<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.html" TARGET=_blank>Giver and Taker</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>.<P>You'll need to learn more about, not just marriage building... but self building too! Yo clearly v bee doing som indepenent self-building to get through what you have so far. The learning (Harley style) isn't going to happen overnight though... look at the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8100_article.html" TARGET=_blank>Articles</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>Infidelity Q&A</A>.<BR>The real learning is best aided by obtaining some of the books from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6000_bookstore.html" TARGET=_blank>MB Bookstore</A>... of most important for those who have affairs in progress, or soon to be, is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A> by Dr. Willard Harley. <B>This is the 'bible' for this forum.</B><BR>Other books can be very useful as well... like <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>"His Needs, Her Needs"</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html" TARGET=_blank>"Love Busters"</A>.<BR>There will be many other good books that the MB people will recommend... take their advice... they've been around.<P>Most of all... you will find <B>compassion</B> and <B>love</B> here. No judging... no demeaning... no malice here!<BR>The people here have all had their lives thrown into a whirlwind of despair, confusion, and sadness.<BR>We've all experience gut wrenching emotions that we though could never exist, in anyone's idea of humanity.<BR>Feelings of hatred, love, disillusionment, envy, rejection, emptiness, <B>deep depression</B>, and on and on...<P>Just the books and facts aren't going to get you through it all... not without <B>support</B>. That's where <B>we</B> come in! <B>We</B> care... because <B>we</B> know how it feels. Believe it... <B>You are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <BR>Come to this forum to vent... to cry... to laugh (a little)... to express your feelings... to advise others... or just to get away!<BR>You're probably going through H*!! right now... don't go it alone... remember... <B>you are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <P>There is never any guarantee to save all marriages... life doesn't work that way, unfortunately.<BR>We can, and do guarantee, to give you help... to build back many vital aspects of your life and sanity. <P>Post... Post... Post... Reply... Reply... Reply... READ! READ! READ!<P>I've been speaking in behalf of some dear friends... as well as some complete strangers too..., when I've used <B>"we"</B>!<BR>But... if you're here... join in with them... they <B>will</B> join in with you. <P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited December 09, 1999).]

I have read everything in MB at least 2ce. I think the ideas are really good. I am not sure why you say that you are impressed that I have stayed after what my H has done to me. I am not impressed with myself, I am amazed at how little I knew myself or him to start with. I try so hard to leave it all in God's hands....I really do trust and believe in him. I do love my husband and want our marriage to work. This is typically what happens with us lately....MB style.....He can be really good at depsiting love units into my love bank. He does things like going grocery shopping, or cooking a great meal on the days I work and having a fire in fireplace ect, when I get home. The he can turn around very quickly and withdraw all the love units by doing something really irresponsible and thoughtless....like going hunting on one of the 3 days a week I work and not telling me anything about it even though he knows he needs to pick up our daughter after ball practice if I am working. This leaves me at work having a near-anxiety attack because my child does not have a way to get home. I have to find her a ride while I am wrestling with the responsibility of my job (RN). When I finally hear from hear from him and ask him what time she gets out on Tues and Thurs he says "5:30"...I ask who is supposed to pick up the slack with the kids on the days I work? He says "I am". I asked why I was at work trying to rustle up a ride for her b/c he wasn't available...He says"Well, I didn't know you had to work yesterday!" I ask why he didn't know, b/c I told him 3 times....and IF he didn't know then why didn't he find out......He has no answer. All the love units are gone form the bank just like that. He has the fun, I have the stress. This cycle seems to play itself out over and over again. How do I change that? How do I stop the cycle?<P>------------------<BR>~Hope~

Hope3,<P>No!... You are <B>not</B> insane... <P>I don't envy your position... <BR>I think it is <B>very</B> good you're going to a christian counselor... your first counselor sounded like a real loser!<P>Do you think your H is need of more serious medical attention... Is he having a depression or mental ailment himself?<P>Temporarily... how about getting him a pager...to remind him of "obligations"... Keep a notepad in his pocket... of scheduled activities...<P>It sounds like I'm telling you to treat him as if he were a child... that's why I wonder about the "mental state" of your H!<P>The pager idea also might help in "extraordinary precautions to guarantee separation of future 'situations'" i.e. <BR><I>Accounting for time</I>?...<P>The issue of whether you move to <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> maybe coming up in your marriage too.<P>I am in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>... but will be moving to <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> in the Jan/Feb time frame. If you are really losing your love (in your <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A>) for your H... it may be time to seriously consider <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>. Not to hurt him... but to <B>love</B> him by not losing your love for him! Not to punish your H... but to save your love!<P>I'm praying for you...<BR>Ongoing Plan P = (praying)<P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...

Jim, First of all I want to say THANK YOU for your responses. Yes, what you are suggesting is that I treat him like a child.....BUT THAT'S OK!! I DO treat him like a child sometimes. I remind him of anything he needs to do over and over...even trash pickup day (which has been Tues. and Fri. for the last 10 years!)Occassionally he can be responsible and do what he needs to do but not very often. I am always pleasantly surprised when he does!! He is very inconsistent and very impulsive. He does, by the way, have a beeper and 2 cell phones. He has these for work and generally answers and/or returns my calls promtly. However, I guess when you are 2-3 hours away, out in the woods you don't worry about little things like that (ha ha). He has been at this job for 15 years and is the BEST at it. He does a great job for the company and loves it. He is so responsible and trustworthy and smart with his work and such the opposite with his family. I don't get it. By the way, I also haven't been to counseling in a while and I am sure I (we)should get back to it. <P>------------------<BR>~Hope~