Shortly after moving to a new state, my husband began an affair with a very attractive co-worker ten years his junior. I caught him chatting with her online only two weeks after moving into our dream home, days before Christmas. He denied anything physical had happened, and continued to deny any relationship for 10 months. In Oct. 99, things were deteriorating rapidly, and after pleading with him to tell me what was going on he confessed. At first he was enthusiastic about rebuilding and repairing our marriage. I was relieved to know I wasn't going crazy, but instead of seeking help immediately, I trusted that we could work this out together. Now, four months later, he says he does not love me, cannot remember very many good times, and feels that the failure of the marriage is essentially my fault. (I acknowledge that my attentions have been focused primarily on our 3 children, and that I could have been much more attentive to him than I was). He agreed to see a counselor, and we've had one appointment, but he doesn't believe his mind can be changed. We have three beautiful children, and I can't bear the thought of the pain that awaits them if he gets his wish. On the one hand, I want nothing more than to keep my family together, but I can't believe the pain he has inflicted over the last month. He still works with the other woman, who is not at all a stable person. He refuses to acknowledge any desire to continue a relationship with her, but I know this is one more lie. I feel as if I don't know him anymore, it's as if the man I loved has been taken over by someone completely different and cruel. I kept my emotions bottled up from the first time I suspected him of cheating. Only in the last week have I released them. The grief I am feeling is like no other. I've never cried so hard in my entire life. I can't imagine ever hurting him the way he has hurt me, and don't understand why he doesn't share my sensitivity. I'm hoping that I can bring him back to his senses, but I'm not sure any hope remains. I've been reading Dr. Harley's books, but I'm afraid my 11 year marriage is over, and I was never given the chance to save it. Any advice would be most appreciated. <P>------------------<BR>Amy

I am so sorry for the pain you are feeling at this time. Many of us here know the exact pain and heartache you are experiencing. My advice is to listen to the many experienced people here and to continue reading the books suggested. Read about plan A/ Plan B. Proceed slowly--nothing has to be decided tonight. It's time to start concentrating on you and what you really want. Its time for you to gain some control over this situation. Try and be strong for your children--they need stability in their lives during this turmoil. My prayers are with you.

Hi Amy,<P>Sorry to hear what you have been going thru what you are going thru...and what you are going to go thru ...<P>This is the beginning of a very difficult time for all of you, but it will be also the most profound learning strengthening and growth time in your life too....he doesnt know anything yet...his time will come when you get a little of your strength back and when your self esteem recovers a bit from its initiation as a crash dummy in a car test....take heart and look after yourself in ways that you can...like get your mind in order...<P>1. It is not your fault he did this....he did it...he knew what he was doing a long time before you did... so he was emotionally prepared for this long before you got a chance to be...he had already gone thru the separation in his mind time and again to prepare himself for it...you have not...he has convinced himself he doesnt love you to justify his actions and to make him feel good about the OW...all fairyland stuff..<P>2. You are not to blame...it was his decision...! he can blame you all he likes and it wont make any difference....he still did it...guilt makes people blame others so they feel better...or they lay it on others to feel better...<P>3. You can feel good about yourself...you did not betray your kids or him or yourself while he was preoccupied elsewhere...your pain is not because you feel bad about yourself...your pain is grief at the loss of a trusted mate....loss of an intimacy you held sacred...dont confuse these...work on your self esteem...keep it high...you are ok...its ok to hurt...its ok to let it pass too...<P>4. Grief is necessary for healing to happen..it passes...know that...!!allow yourself the relief of grief then let it lie there...dont lie in it...end it when you have let it express itself....dont get stuck in it...busy yourself...occupy your mind and body with physical things..its very healing...digging, painting, sport activity anything that absorbs you....<P>5. If you can get a good counsellor to help you build on the goodness strength and understanding of yourself....dont allow negative emotions to control you or your life...dont mope...dont spend time going over details over and over....<P>6. Nothing is ever over until its over and even then nothing is ever set in concrete....dont despair....and dont hold false hope either...deal with what you can and dont chastise yourself, there is nothing wrong with you...<P>7. Pain and hurt are our greatest teachers...know that it will bring you to your own spiritual core....these teachers bring with them diamonds with many facets tough, brilliant, pure shining depth you can see deep into if you look hard enough, a rare beauty, that reflects back that beauty to all who can see it....that is the soul that is you....<P>8. The pain and hurt makes you dig deep and clear away the dirt that covers the diamonds within...and when revealed the strength of its brilliance will dazzle you....<P>9. It takes courage and grit to go thru this kind of trauma and you are never given anything in life you cannot handle....you are always stronger than any problem you face....<P>10. You always have positive forces and energy around you at all times...know you are loved by many even though you may not know it right now.....and you may not know those who love you right now....you are more that you think....you have the courage and the strength....<P>Blessings<P>cossie...<P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P>

Wow! what a great reply cossie. Amynoel I see my situation in yours. 11 years and 3 kids and no fights! We have even discussed infidelity and midlife crises.<BR>My husband moved out one week ago and is having a ball filling his apt. up with furniture, rugs, w&d and even a digital piano. <BR>He wants NO responsibility and I hate that. It seems so selfish. (He even admits that)<BR>I worry he will never wake up and our children will suffer because of it.<BR>I alternate between telling him where to go to attempting plan a. When I see him (he spends time with the kids but not usually all together) I am doing plan A. But I think that cassies post says it best.<BR>It is not your fault. It is like an addiction. It's amazing how prevalent it is in our society. What does that say?<BR>Take care of yourself. You have NO choice because of your children. Pray. There are always lessons in life. I believe that our purpose is to learn from them. LOok in the mirror every morning and tell yourself you are OK. YOu are better than ok!!!!

Anynoel, <P>I just wanted to say that I know what you are going through. My wife has done almost the exact same thing to me. I posted under emotonal needs, but I guess I should have put it here. I love what cossie had to tell you. she hit it right on the head. as a matter of fact, I copied her post and stuck it on my desktop, to remind me when I'm down. <P>The most important thing that you can remember is that it is not your fault. I try to look at my wife's infidelity as a potentialy fatal disease that she refuses to have treated. The life at risk is our marriage. Now, if you had this disease, you would do everything you could to cure it, right? Well taking care of yourself I think is the best medician we can give ourselves. whether or not your husband decides down the road to try to cure his "disease" is up to him, not you. I am the type of person who always wants to "fix" a problem. The hardest thing that I have had to come to terms with, and I think you will find this too, is that you can not control your husband's actions. The plus side of this is you are also not respocible for their actions or reactions. Don't ever let him try to tell you this is your fault! <BR>The best we can do in this situation is to find peace for ourselves and pray for those who are hurting us. By doing so, you will be in a much better place what ever happens in your marriage.<P>God bless you and your husband and children.

Cossie,<P>I can't thank you enough for taking the time to write such a lengthy post and share your wisdom with me. I'm taking your words to heart. I have been seeing a counselor for about a month now, and it does help a little. I've always been very hard on myself and this horrible incident has been no exception. I am learning to believe I don't need to blame myself for everything.<P>Thank you again, your post helps a lot.<BR>Amy

Cossie--Just like BrentB, I have also printed your touching reply. Even 2 1/2 yrs after divorce, I still feel that I am to blame for my ex's affair. I plan on reading this whenever I feel guilty. You have helped many people with your post. Thank you.

Thank you all for your kind words....I am glad my words have helped a little....<P>We all seem to have this tendency to blame ourselves and have to be reminded that we are not to blame for other peoples actions just because those actions have affected us in some way...<P>I guess that is the lesson, to learn that very thing...<P>I think its something we grow up with all our lives.... as children, we were always being chastised and corrected over something or other, and told we were doing wrong, then we go to school and always being corrected, we do our tests and exams to be corrected, then as we grow we are always being told how we should behave and live, our Governments telling us what we are allowed to do and we have to abide by the laws they lay down....<P>Then we marry and we make promises to each other at a ceremony in front of a lot of people that we are going to love and obey each other and be faithful till death do us part...?<P>Goodness me its no wonder we want to blame ourselves when anything goes wrong...<P>I am not saying that the way we are raised is wrong, our parents didnt know any better than we do now....our society doesnt know any better either...we all do the best we can with what we have got and with what we know...but if we can put our past into perspective we can alter the way we feel about it all and make some decisions for ourselves that give us inner peace and self acceptance...<P>BTW brentb... I am actually male...but please dont feel bad about that...I talk like a girl sometimes...*chuckle* if you wanna find out more about me, I am in the process of building a web site, hmm home page I guess is more appropriate, not yet complete, I dont know how to put the guest book in it...or the visitor counter...dont know enough about computer stuff to do it....would appreciate some help if anyone can...? jhng.faithweb.com<P>Sorry to get off the track here a bit Amy...<P>Take care ..<P>cossie<P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....

Amynoel<BR>There is some great information in the book After the Affair by Janis Spring on the physiological effects the discovery of an affair has on the wounded spouse. I think the list is in chapter 2....it will help you see that you aren't alone and you aren't going crazy.<P>I also highly recommend the book Torn Asunder by Dave Carder. It is my personal favorite on restoring a marriage after an affair. Even though your husband hasn't committed to restoration, you will find some very good information there.<P>Move very slowly here.....don't make any decisions in haste or anger. Take lots of deep breaths and cry when you need to. Rest and try to eat small meals. Take things one minute, one hour, one day at a time.....<P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31<P>

Thank you all for some very comforting advice. I must say I've just had probably 5 of the roughest days of my life. My husband told his parents everything, and they took the opportunity to attack me for every perceived wrong in the marriage, even questioned the upbringing of my children. To say that I was devastated is a huge understatement. I'm clinging to the hope still that we can work things out, but I'm having a horrible time containing my anger, especially after I heard what my inlaws had to say about me. I'm love busting left and right, I guess. I did finally come "out of the closet" and told a few people what was going on, because I had no "in person" support system. I was ashamed to confess the problems, even though I didn't create them in the first place. After doing this, I'm finally feeling like someone does care about me, which I've not felt at all until now. My next door neighbor, who is like a surrogate mom to me, was very understanding, and encouraging about working the marriage out. And if things go the other way, her husband is a federal judge who can make recommendations for legal help. I'm hanging in here for my kids, but as I said in my first letter, I don't understand what happened to the man I married. Just an example of what he used to be: When our oldest son was barely a year old we had taken him for a haircut. One of the hairdressers had her little son with her, and he had a little suitcase in his hand. Soon his dad showed up, he kissed his mom good-bye and said, "See you Monday, Mommy!" My husband looked at our son, and said, "I would work through ANYTHING so that our son NEVER has to go through that!" ?????? Five years later, we're in hell. Sometimes, it's almost as if I don't even recognize him physically either, as if he's not as nice looking anymore. Does this sound weird? HG, I'm glad you mentioned "After the Affair", my therapist recommended it as well. I'll pick it up tomorrow. I am suffering physically as well, my stomach is in a perpetual state of upset, eating is a chore. I even experienced some hair loss, though I've got an abundance of it, so there's plenty to spare. It was worse than the hair loss I experienced post partum. Thank you all, for helping me get through this. I know I have much further to go, but I'm glad I have somewhere to go now, where there is understanding and wisdom.<BR>

Welcome <B>Amynoel</B>...<P>I'm so sorry for you...<BR>I am normally around to get people on board and this week I was in the hospital for surgery.<P>I have a post of general welcome post I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P>For some clarity... a short time ago the "main" forum was divided into 4 separate "sub" forums...<BR>Staying in the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=General+Questions&number=28&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>General Questions</A> forum will give you the most responses! <P>I know you've read some Harley books, but make sure you get <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A> and read everything you can on <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>!<P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited February 25, 2000).]

AmyNoel, I lost 17 lbs in about three weeks. It was quite noticable since I am thin. I looked awful. I didn't sleep for a month. I had some sort of ocularmotor paralysis in my left eye. I was told it was due to shock. My husband is a completely different person. He is the polar opposite of himself. <P>He appeared possessed. Like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. It was a night mare<P>It is much better now that he is out of the house. Do you suppose there is a little mid-life crisis in this. I know there is in my H. case. Not that that helps any.<P>I read a lot of books also on mid-life crisis, particulary psych books---C.Yung.<P>They really helped me deflect the projections onto me from the beginnign.<P>I have been extremely lucky with my inlaws and his sibs. His mom and sister will not talk with him and his brothers will talk with him but basically think he is out of his mind. <P>He also was appalled a few years ago when his brothers wife had an affair and left with their daughter. He also bought a book on values for our children and was going over them one chapter at a time.<P>Try to eat. Get some rest and visit here often. I really thought my situation was weird. I swear I thought he had been hypnotized on his trip!!! I found my story here again and again. Including many of the "lines" he used on me.<P>Try really hard to deflect the projections on you. My H has come up with so many vague things he might as welll say it's because my hair is brown and eyes are blue.<P>Our friends and neighbors helped me deflect as well because they witnessed our relationship. Plus I have lots of photos.<P>Whatever happens I refuse to look behind me and see nothing. I force myself to look at our photos. I tell myself that that husband had a great marriage and was happy. This guy I don't even know!!!!!

Cossie, (and anyone else who cares to chime in)<P>I've had an interesting weekend to say the least. I simply could not keep my mouth shut, and Thursday began to tell my husband how he has let so many people down, especially my family, and asked him how he could so easily walk away from our "dream home" and all of the hard work we've put into it. I was calm, but very harsh, and I also reminded him that if he was feeling pressure to continue his ridiculous plan of leaving his family, that telling me would help him, not hurt him. Instead of placing blame on me, he simply hung his head, and I could tell something had changed. I found out Friday that my belief that he was still involved with the OW was absolutely correct, and his house of cards was now tumbling to the ground. Much to his surprise, he was told by his boss that everyone knew what was going on between him and the OW, and that their relationship could create legal problems for the company because layoffs have become necessary, and one person who was identified as a likely layoff happened to be the daughter of a prominent local attorney. This girl would have had a very good case against both my husband and the company had she been let go. Finally the comeuppance he has so richly deserved for 18 months. But wait, there's more. The OW informs him that she is pregnant, but is going to have an abortion performed that morning. Somehow, I remain calm as he tells me this on the phone Friday morning. At this point, he is remorseful, and admits that she and he can no longer coexist in the workplace, that I was correct in demanding that. Unbelievably, his boss has offered to transfer the OW so that they can keep him on. I told him he was the luckiest man on the planet to have a boss that said that. Here now, are my thoughts and concerns. While I do believe that he wants to reconcile, and finally realizes how foolish and cruel he was, I am not sure if I should put forth the effort to repair the marriage at the point. My love for our 3 children tells me I should work it out. However, he's lied to me three times now about this affair being over. Additionally, I'm not convinced the OW actually had an abortion, or if she was even pregnant at all. If in fact, she is still pregnant, I simply cannot work on the marriage. I warned him that she would do this very thing if he went back to her. Everything I've predicted that she would do, she has done. I don't understand why I can predict her behavior, since I would never in a million years dream of doing those things. I have consulted an attorney and am this close to having him served. <P>So...do you think my husband and I can fix this marriage? <P>PS- I took some time out for myself this weekend and treated myself to a complete makeover. I felt (and looked) so much better afterward. It was the first time in months I've spent time doing something just for me. Like I said, I'm amazed that I'm keeping myself under control and so calm right now. I'm afraid though, that I'll be in bad shape if I start to crumble. <P>

Amynoel,<P>This board is for rebuilding marriages. Your marriage can be rebuilt if you decide to give it a chance and your H decides he wants to work on it as well. <P>There are oldtimers here that will state that their marriage is actually better now than it was before the affair. So there is much hope.<P>You will need to read the information on this board. NSR usually provides such information so look at his thread around here. <P>The lying goes with the affairs. If the affair is over trust can be rebuilt but it takes time.<P>So my message is to consider rebuilding. If want to see an amazing story about rebuilding a marriage. Go read K's story. It is in several places but I think it is found easiest on the "Why Women Leave Men" portion of this site. Click on the search section on the upper right hand side of the web page and then select the Why Women Leave Men part and type in "K". You will find alot of things.<P>He still posts here to help other people. Post to him on the General Questions section if you like. <P>I hope that your H does come to his senses and then the two of you decide to give your marriage another chance.<P>God Bless You and Your Family,<P>JL

Hello Amy,<P>sounds like you do have his measure and hers too..it is not surprising that you doubt what he says...When one has been hurt and lied to, trust does not return for some time..so every thing that is said is doubted and rightly so...this is part of instant karma if you like...trust has to earnt...and regaining it takes work, time, dedication, integrity, patience and demonstration of reliability,,,it can take a couple of years depending on the relationship....<P>I am not surprised also that his daydream is falling apart like a pack of cards..like I had said in my first post it was fairyland stuff....the reasons he is in fairyland is another issue which I will post about very soon.....he will not know why he did what he did to those he loves....<P>You wrote<BR>............................................<BR>I have consulted an attorney and am this close to having him served. <BR>So...do you think my husband and I can fix this marriage? <P>.............................................<P>1. Nothing is unsolvable....nothing is unfixable.....it is a choice you make,.. you either want to fix it or you dont....all marriages are fixable, including yours....infidelity is rarely caused by problems with the relationship...it is the problems within the person that create the problems within the relationship that includes infidelity...<P>2. Never make long term decisions based on short term emotional pain...time and change distort the future and the past....always allow yourself adequate time... to heal...to settle...before making decisions for your future...<P>3. Always check your deeper reasons for wanting to see a lawyer too quickly, it is too easy to spend a lot of money needlessly....if your deeper emotions are crying out for revenge....getting back at him for all his lies , his betrayals etc...beware, you will pay a bigger price than you think.... and you will pay for a very long time..it will eat at you and you can manifest ill health on top of it....not really fair on yourself...<P>If both your choices are to rebuild your marriage...then first step is serious down to earth honest communication...not about what he did or why ( he would not have a clue why)....but about what you are going to do, how you are going to do it ...and what you are not going to put up with etc...some ground rules and boundaries that you both agree on...and work to those, changing what needs to be changed as you go along and adjusting to suit...<P>That he gets good professional counselling could be one that you may specify as one of the conditions....? <P>There will always be love between you....what bought you two together in the first place will still be there...no one falls out of love...you only make a decision to withhold love...or you decide not to channel your love to someone....however those who love and have families together dont all a sudden lose their love ....it is still there...they run from the fear of being hurt by those they love because they love them so much it makes them feel vunerable..!!!!...and there in that one sentence is one of the biggest causes for most infidelities...and for making the one who is having the affair believe they are in love with the OW/OM...it is a fantasy they create to protect themselves from pain...(I will explain this in more detail in my post)<P>Just remember....no matter what anyone says (in laws etc) about the reasons for your relationship problems....YOU KNOW THE TRUTH!!!!...do not sell your truth out for someones elses BullS..t..!!!!stay faithful to you...!!!!you deserve the belief in yourself.....and you have nothing to defend..let them rave on....and ignore it all, for you know what the truth is and that is what matters most of all...hold your intergrity...and you will feel your own inner strength....you will become a rock in a stormy sea, unmoved by its tides, or its waves.....<P>Stay strong and weep when you want to ...and when you feel like the little girl inside you that needs a place to be safe and protected...cuddle yourself somewhere safe and private....slowly kiss your palms and gently place them on your cheeks....and know the that the forces that surround you kiss your palms also....with love and a pureness of spiritual essence that will permeate your soul...you are loved more than you know....<P>Blessings<P>cossie...<P><p>[This message has been edited by cossie (edited February 28, 2000).]

I have had the same expierence I intercepted a message on my husbands pager from OW he admitted to having feelings for this woman but said it wasn't an affair because it hadn't gotten physical HA so I asked him to move out after 7 years of marriage and three children I was on my own and he was living with his girlfriend I cried myself to sleep every night and seen everytime he came to pick up the kids that the man could not even look me in the face when you would think he'd be so happy now that his responsibilities to me are gone, After 3 months of living the so called good ol life the man came back crying and pleading for his family back and wanted to go for counseling so I agreed to counseling and it will be a year on the 21st that we have been working on this and he is so much more appreciative of all I do and shows me all the time what love is, but without the seperation(I actually filed for Divorce)who knows what would have happened, The best advice I had gotten was to ignore him and not see him and it worked. Please LMK how things go I am pulling for you<BR>Dawn <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by db713:<BR><B>I am so sorry for the pain you are feeling at this time. Many of us here know the exact pain and heartache you are experiencing. My advice is to listen to the many experienced people here and to continue reading the books suggested. Read about plan A/ Plan B. Proceed slowly--nothing has to be decided tonight. It's time to start concentrating on you and what you really want. Its time for you to gain some control over this situation. Try and be strong for your children--they need stability in their lives during this turmoil. My prayers are with you.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>