I read the other posts on "why am I married to this jerk" and it felt good to see that I am not alone. I stopped posting about a week ago because I wasn't handling plan A very well. I started to wonder the same things, why am I trying so hard and feeling that I am not acknowledging my feelings so that I won't love bust? Why am I "the victim" starting to feel like " the fool"? I read through all the posts but I am not sure what the answer was.<P>I know we are all feeling the same way but what now? You love the person so you just try to keep going? <P>It seems to me that I am the only one suffering. My husband hasn't read any of the Harley materials although I have asked him to many times. He's probably feeling like wow, that was close but I'm off the hook now. I want to hurt him so badly. I feel like sleeping with somebody and making sure he finds out so he can see how it hurts. I feel that way out of anger but I've never been that kind of person. What do we do? Does he feel like I'm some wimp that he can do anything to and I'll get over it?<P>How do I go on if he's not even willing to address the situation? He asks me to stop talking about it...I'm still confused

{{{{{confused33}}}}},<P>Plan A is first and foremost a plan for <B>you</B>...<P>If your H won't go... <B>you go</B>!!!<P>I would recommend that you have a couple of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> (~$85US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A> or Jennifer Harley. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A>!<P>You are beginning to sound like bouts of depression may be setting in as well. How about seeing you doctor and explore the possibility of anit-dep medication?<P>I know you're suffering...<BR>...we've all been there... honest!<BR>You cannot educate your H...<BR>...it doesn;t work in 95% of the cases<BR>but...<BR>...<B>you can work on you</B>...<BR>...developing better marital skills<BR>...being a better person<BR>...overcoming adversity<BR>...and so much more...<P>So many of us just sit a wallow in despressing thoughts of where we are...<BR>...how about where we (not necessarily our spouses)... but <B>we</B> want to be!<P>"What do we do?"...<BR>...it's not <B>we do</B>... it's <B>you do</B>... not him... (the counseling!)<P>"Does he feel like I'm some wimp that he can do anything to and I'll get over it?"...<BR>...not unless <B>you go to counseling</B>... and be advised to how he is know you are changing for <B>you</B>!<P>"How do I go on if he's not even willing to address the situation?"...<BR>In time he will see in you the changes..<BR>...if he doesn't... he will have to learn the hard way... that there is a Plan B.<P>"He asks me to stop talking about it..."...<BR>...and you should... instead of talking... act out your real changes!<P> <P>Jim

Thanks Jim, I am going to go to counseling on my own as you suggested. I cannot help talking about it. Every night I can't sleep and he's lying there snoring and it makes me sick. ok ok ok I'm going to make an appointment for myself.

Confused33,<BR>So glad to find you here again. I was thinking about you! I saw your Roll Call and my d-day was a day before your d-day. So many of things sound similar to yours, and we're coming about same way at same time. Might help you if you search my posts and read them in order. You might see how I felt as time went by.<P>If you see in General Questions, Lapeine's post "Why betrayers have troubles believing BS?", you'll see my post to her. I explained what happened after I got over my anger. I mean not completely over, but now I understand that even though my H hated to talk about the A with me, that didn't mean he wasn't thinking about it. If you do good on PlanA, you'll see his pain in him. It is there. And that's why he doesn't want to talk or hear about it. I know, your feeling "his pain? What about MY PAIN?", but just give a try, it's for your relief, believe me.<P>You said you didn't post because you weren't doing good on PlanA. I suggest to do the opposite thing. What I did was: <P>1. As soon as I felt like talking about the A to my H, went on my computer and to the forum, start talking about it here.<P>2. Or, when I felt like getting upset and crying when I was in front of him, I left the room just not to show my tears. Once I said "I'm going to a grocery store" and left the house. Sat in my car for extra 30 min in parking.<P>3. Or, I just waited to say anything until I find a better way to say. Usually I didn't find any way to say it without getting upset, so I kept waiting. Like "until I talk to a counselor" or "until I talk to Dr. H." Even those 2-3 days delay, gave my H a break. (I didn't intended to but turned out to be good for both, it was surprising.)<P>I know it seems so unfair, that only we BSs working on marriage right now and not WSs, but WSs are also in pain and working on their own. Mostly on themselves at this point, and not yet ready to work on relationship. BS has to work on PlanA at first so that WS can safely get out of the shell of himself and start working on marriage together. Make sense?<P>AnnC's post "What now ... need advice ... man's view of phys. intimacy", I learned a lot from MikeC2 and JustLearning about how Hs are. You probably read it already but you might feel different when you read it at different point.<P>Wow, I almost sound like I'm in a good shape? I'm still in a big trouble and it's same as before. Just different things come out at different stages, I guess. At this point I'm just wondering what my H means when he says "I don't want to change myself." It hurts me and makes me mad when he says it. But I started thinking "am I asking him to change? To be a different person?" And the answer is No! He doesn't have to become a different person. If he doesn't have an affair and if he's good to me, that's all I'm asking. I fell in love with him as he was, I just want to get back into that situation, like when we were dating 7-8 years ago. There must be ways to work, and I have a hope. Dr. H helping me. All people helping me on these forums.<P>Confused33, if I can do it, you can do it. Be patient and keep trying PlanA. If you get tired, come here and talk to people. I really really hope you feel better very soon, I am praying for you.<P>(Oh god am I talking too long or what)<BR>Amy

NO you didn't talk too long. Everything you said is helping me. I guess I am just having a bad time right now. I thought I was feeling better but then I just got down right mad. I felt like why am I doing all the work? I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING! It was good to come back and start to talk to those who have been through it and are still going through. <P>I am going to do as you suggested and go back to the old posts that I read before and read them again. I know I still love my husband but I guess because he seems to go along as though nothing happened I get really depressed. I feel like he doesn't always meet my emotional needs and I didn't go out and screw around on him! Then I think about the person it was with...what a piece of trash..it makes me think what does he think of me and the kids to risk our whole life together for something like that!<P>But I guess she had something he wanted that I don't...ok I'm rambling again. Keep praying for me, as you can tell I really need it. <BR>I am glad you are doing better. I will try to put into practice all the advice I am getting here. <P>I have to get through this one way or another....thanks again...talk to you soon.

Dear Confused,<BR>I am feeling exactly the way you are - my stomach is still in knots, I have a lot of ups and downs. Resentment is setting in - like you, I feel like I am going out of my way to be nice, supportive, and loving and not getting much in return. The no sex thing is still bothering me - driving me crazy - and I am probably driving everyone on this forum crazy talking about it. At times, I feel like you do - I want to ask H, well, if you won't make love to me, how would you feel if I found someone who will? - Yet, I know in my heart how wrong that thinking is - although I wonder if he would even care. And, I am with you - I think I answered one of your earlier posts - my H's OW is also trash - I know this sounds mean, but she comes from a completely different background, and she is married with 2 children, and evidently she was out there looking. How does he trust someone like that? and why is he being so stupid about not getting tested(she has so many email addresses, etc, - how do you not wonder how many others she has been with and be worried??? - I do NOT understand.) I am getting to a point where I may have to say, I gave you 4 weeks to get tested, and you never did, and you have until...a date...and then we begin working on our intimacy or you need to leave because you are not committed to our marriage. - Plan B - because frustration and resentment and hurt are eating me alive. This is the hardest thing I have ever been through. I ditto everything you said!!! And, Alien, you sound much better - wish I were there - at that point.<BR>God bless - A

Dear Confused -<BR>How are things going? We have so much in common - our situations - and would love to hear from you!<BR>A

let's see..how are things going??? I think that I am losing my mind. My husband is fine as long as I don't mention anything about the affair. Finances are a little tight right now so I wanted to wait a week or so before making an appointment for counseling. He says he wants to go to find out what's wrong with him.<BR>My heart is still in knots along with my stomach. I had two job interviews today and he called to see how I thought they went. He's really trying to be attentive and back to the family man he used to be.<BR>What bothers me though is..I feel like I'm walking on egg shells. How can he just act like nothing happened? During this whole ordeal our sex life never really changed. I read about you guys not having sex and I feel like that's almost better. I feel like he can just have sex with anyone.<P>Are there really any feelings involved when you can sleep with a piece of trash and come home and sleep with me?<P>My 12 year old son asked me yesterday did I have a boyfriend? I said what! I told him no and asked him why he asked and he said I should get revenge on Dad....I was shocked. I really thought he didn't know about what happened? Now what has my son learned from this? It's okay to fool around...your wife gets really mad for a while and then it's over??? Now I have to deal with that issue too.<P>I feel like I really need my parents right now. My dad would have wanted to kill him but my mother would have made this all make sense somehow...Funny how you can be around people and still feel so alone.<P>I don't know what I would have done by now if I hadn't found this site. Thanks for checking up on me Annc...and thanks to everyone else too.

Dear Confused,<BR>My H is the same - he is ok as long as we don't mention anything. Our daughters also know - because OW was calling and hanging up - actually they suspected long before I knew,due to his behavior. I was totally naieve. It is horrible that they know!!! I get angry when I think about what he has done to us!!!<BR>Are you worried about STD's? Did your H get tested?<BR>At least, your H has agreed to counseling!! That is good.<BR>I realize what you are saying about feelings and sex -- yet, makes me feel that he has no feelings for me...<BR>This is driving me crazy!! I also feel as if I am walking on eggshells!! Let's stay in touch..A

When I told my h what our son said he said I must have told him what happened. He actually acted as if he had gotten angry about it. I told him our son is not stupid! I was getting hang up calls about a month before she decided to talk to me when I answered. <P>My son was also upset with his father because sometimes when we would page him he wouldn't call back or answer his office phone. Then when the nut decided to call and spill the beans she rang my phone the entire day ranting and raving. I wonder why he would think our son wouldn't know?<P>We just got back from our oldest son's (the same son who asked me the question) baseball game. Everybody is acting so happy but when I look at him I go...here we are back to the fairy tale....it's funny, people probably look at us and say "what a nice family"..ha ha...if they only knew.<P>When I kept talking about getting tested he kept saying there was no need to..it was a one time thing. Sad how a supposedly intelligent person can be so stupid. I go to the doctor on the 29th. D day was back in April..I was too embarassed to tell my doctor what happened but when I go in for this appointment I'm going to have her test me. I don't know why I haven't been more concerned with that. I should be, especially because of who he had contact with. Maybe I'm afraid myself. <P>What do I say? Hey doc. can you check me for STD's? I know I sound stupid but it's embarassing. help

Dear Confused -<BR>We are having all the same feelings!!! - I, too, feel like we are a "fairy tale" or, more like it, a facade! I do not call my friends - I don't even feel like talking to anyone - guess I don't feel like "faking" it.<BR>When I went to the doctor, I simply told him my H had an affair and should I be tested...and we did the tests. I figured honesty was the best policy, besides, I wasn't the betrayer... I almost broke down crying in front of my doctor - he was very understanding and caring... I called some info lines today for my H and left him a note on his dresser where he can go for testing...doubt it will do any good, but I figured he wouldn't go to the effort to find out where to go, and he won't go to a doctor - go figure. I feel the same - how can he be so stupid considering the OW!!????she is trash - don't get it, just don't get it!!! I remember being horrified that a couple who were good friends of ours were divorcing last summer because her H had hooked up with a stripper - I couldn't believe it!! and now here is my H a few months later!! H's OW isn't a stripper(as far as I know) but she is defintely ugh!!!<BR>We leave for vacation this weekend - should be interesting... we'll see... I am not sure how long I will keep this up after we get back - depends on how it goes, I suppose.<BR>Talk to you later. Hang in there! A

ok...had a bad day today. I wasn't in the best of moods and h called to tell me about something going on at work and to check on the kids. I told him I was feeling depressed and he said about what?? That made me a bit angry and I told him I was glad he could go through life hurting people and not feel bad about it. He told me with so many other things to worry about right now (finances mainly) shouldn't I focus on something else?<P>What a jerk...He then goes on to tell me that life is not what happens to you but how you react to it.. isn't that nice. He told me to concentrate on sending out my resume's this week and continuing my job search and we can deal with all this other stuff later.<P>He also told me that there would be no divorce ever and that as soon as work slows down for him and we get our finances back on track we can discuss counseling and getting our marriage back to what it was.<P>I didn't say much during his speech because I was crying. Is it that he doesn't know how much this hurt us or me I should say or he doesn't care?<P>He is handling this adultery issue as if it was one of the things on his "to do" list at work. Let's take care of the important stuff now and this can wait till we have nothing else to do. I am really afraid that he will do this again in a few years and figure I'll just have to get over it again. I don't get all the I'm sorry stuff anymore. He seems to try to be more affectionate but it's like he wants to just forget this and acts as if I'm blowing it out of proportion. I feel like I;m dealing with Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde here.<P>------------------<BR>

Dear confused33,<BR>I had a bad day too. My H also says "what's wrong?" when I'm depressed. I want to say "EVERYTHING!" <P>Well, sounds like your H is just not ready to sort things out, avoiding to face his guilt, or changes he has to make, or decision he has to make, etc..., but he knows there is something wrong with HIMSELF, just doesn't want to deal with it right now. I guarantee you the reason he's acting normal is NOT because he doesn't care. He is just afraid to look at something.<P>He is not ready to work on marriage yet. And I know it makes you mad, but pushing him will take longer to get to it... Oh just saying this makes myself angry, but I found this is the fact.<P>I know it's hard, but be strong. I'm trying the same with you.<BR>Amy

Hi C and Amy,<BR>Ditto!!! My H to a tee = not dealing with it at all - sweep it under the rug and it will go away!!! At least feel a little consolation in the fact that he said he will go to counseling and no divorce - that's good, isn't it? Your H is saying something - every time I try to bring up anything about our marriage to my H-not even the A - I get "stop it!" <BR>Not a good day for me either - and to make matters worse, H now tells me he can't leave for vacation next week, doesn't feel he can leave work!!!!, I am supposed to see if I can reschedule our place!! and teenage daughter is acting up!! Are we having fun yet??? Not!<BR>Still won't go for testing...putting it off. How much longer???-I am plan Aing - no LB's and I feel the same way, C - will he do this again and think I will "take it"?<BR>Not feeling too good about my self right now, either - first time I have felt bad about my body - H was looking at porn, and OW has big chest!!! So, I am feeling I am inadequate - can't compete with that - guess that's one of the reasons this whole sex issue is hurting so much - I feel he doesn't like my body anymore....this is heck,...<BR>Sorry for rambling!!!<BR>Middle of the night - can't sleep!<BR>A

Hi, again,<BR>Just wanted to clarify - I should have said, "feel consoled that your H said he will go to counseling and there will be no divorce," afraid I worded it to sound like my H agreed to counseling - no way.<BR>Thinking of you! A

hey guys

ok..just testing, I tried to reply earlier and I was getting a message that I wasn't a member. <P>I am trying to go along with plan A, I really am. The trouble I am having is that I still feel like the betrayed spouse is doing all the work. <P>Marriage vows state that you will be with this person for better or worse. If a partners emotional needs are not being met, don't they have a responsibility to state that?<P>I read the other post where alien and annc were talking about their bodies, I'm feeling the opposite way. Maybe I have a little too much body...(ha ha). One day when this first came out my husband referred to the ow as a little girl. So now I'm feeling like a fat pig.<P>But this isn't supposed to be about our bodies right? Its the emotional needs thing. I have trouble with that because if I cheated everytime I felt my husband wasn't meeting my emotional needs I would be in the hospital suffering from exhaustion.

Confused, it is about emotional needs, but the infidelity issue makes our self-image a physical thing. I feel the the OW is more attractive than I am, so naturally this lowers my self-esteem. A lot of what we do is working on building that back up. Luckily, I have lost 10 pounds on this infidelity diet, so I have a good start on getting back into shape. I've also started trying to buy more "fashionable" clothes and lingerie to make myself feel better about me. (This is very difficult though because lately the styles have become rather trashy looking. My H would be happy if I dressed more slutty, so I guess I am really going to have to work on this self-image thing, so I feel okay wearing these little spandex, strapless things. How does one wear a bra with those? I am well-endowed and don't think I would go without one.) <P>I do understand what you mean about cheating every time you H doesn't meet your needs. It all boils down to commitment and strength in difficult times and situations. I'm not sure that my H would have cheated if this woman had not come along when she did. I knew we were having problems and had already suggested counseling. I would like to think that we would have gotten help before the A if she hadn't been there enticing him emotionally and physically. I can only imagine the manipulative things she said to him to convince him that I didn't love him. Me, not love him, how ironic is that. Then she had the guts to tell me that I have probably been feeling empty as well. What the h*** does she know of my feelings? I never felt "empty"--confused and frustrated, but not empty. I still thought my H loved me as much as I loved him. Anyway, she came at a weak point in his life and he thought he was invincible. He learned the hard way that he wasn't.<P>I don't know your story, but your H is saying he doesn't want a divorce. That's interesting. Why not? What is keeping him in your relationship? If you really start working on Plan A (which may include shaping up physically if that is what he needs), you have a great chance of knocking him dead in his tracks when he wakes up one day and says to himself, "Who is this self-confident, independent, good-looking person I married. I haven't seen this person in years and I think I like it." Even, if this doesn't happen, you will be a stronger, more confident person which will help you work with your H.<P>Good luck. I'll keep you in my prayers.

For the last few years I have been very down on myself. My husband would tell me to stop talking about myself so badly. He keeps saying its not about me, that everything is fine with me but I just can't believe that. I thought things were going well with us. Our sex life was never interrupted by the affair. The only clue I had that something wasn't right was that he started working later and later. One night he came home and I could tell he had been drinking. I asked him what was going on and he said he stopped for a beer on the way home from work. This really wasn't like him. I also noticed that whenever I would page him when he wouldn't answer his phone at work he would appear at home about 20 minutes later.<P>One night I went and looked at his pager which has a caller ID function on it and saw this womans name and number. I went into the trash function on the pager and saw that this person had been paging him quite often, like everyday two or three times a day.<P>I finally asked him about it and all I could get was "why are you snooping through my things?" We argued off and on and he kept telling me that this person had to leave him work related information on the voice mail of his pager. I asked him why wouldn't it be left on his work phone and he just lied more and more. I threatened to call his job and speak to her at one point and of course he asked how could I be so untrusting of him? Why would I embarass him at work?? so on and so on.<P>I knew in my heart but he was just so convincing, I forced myself to believe I was wrong. I even apologized for not believing in him!<P>One night back in March we had a huge argument. It was my mother's birthday and I spent the entire day crying. My mother died a year ago. I called him at work and he was so nice, he told me to have the boys ready by 6:00pm and we would spend the evening together to cheer me up. We waited until 8:00pm and he never showed. I paged him and got no answer. <P>When me and the kids got home he didn't even act like he remembered what he had told me. I was very hurt and upset. He stayed in the basement and I stayed in my bedroom. I heard the pager rumbling on the dresser and looked at it. Sure enough, it was her paging him at 11:00pm at night! Work related? yeah right.<P>I left him a note saying that I knew he was having an affair and I left the pager open next to my note and went to a hotel for the night.<P>The next morning when I came back he was very quiet. We didn't even talk for the next week. I don't remember what started us talking again but he told me that she no longer worked there and the people at work were giving her a party and she only called to make sure he had directions to the party. Of course I didn't believe that. I told him that nobody calls a married man to invite him to a party and we fought some more. Throughout these things he kept telling me how wrong I was not to trust such a good guy. He told me I had been extra sensitive sense my parents death and so on and so on.<P>I just let it go. I knew it would come out someday. Sure enough he started hiding the pager. I couldn't go ask where it was? I was going nuts. I started getting these hang up calls at home all the time. He would say those calls had nothing to do with him.<P>She finally got tired of hanging up and told the whole thing on 4/21- Good Friday. I will never forget it. Me on the phone with her screaming about how my husband was hers and him on the floor holding my feet begging me not to put him out. I did make him leave for about three days and then I let him come home because the kids were upset and financially we couldn't afford for him to continue at a hotel. His parents were totally pissed with him and he wouldn't go there. Ok I can think of a bunch of reasons why, but I did still love him and wanted him to come home. I really think they were still in contact though because the night he came home she started calling again. The next day she called to apologize but told me he was leading her to believe he was leaving me. He says it's a lie but who knows. <P>Thats my story. He says he loves me, and it will never happen again. Now I believe that he may be sorry about it, but now I believe that every woman I was ever suspicious about was an affair as well. My husband is very handsome and women have always thrown themselves at him, sometimes even in my presence. I'm just very very hurt about this.<P>Other than this he has been a very good husband and I thought we had a good relationship. Maybe I drove him to this being depressed about my parents and my weight. I went from a size 10 to a 14 quickly. He says I am fine the way I am but I don't feel that way. I know I have to get through this but all the lies he told me really bother me. If he truly loved me wouldn't he have gotten rid of her when I first got wind of it?

So many questions without answers, aren't there? Do read the book Surviving an Affair. It is very good about the description of soulmates. He loves you, he loves her. He doesn't want to hurt either of you. You are meeting some of his needs, she is meeting others. The trick is for you to meet all of his needs. You can do it. He does still love you, but he is having trouble letting go of the OW.<P>Hang in there. Work on your self-confidence and self-image. If he still loves you and you still love him, you can turn this around. It would be easier if he were willing to read some of the books, but you can do it alone. Heck, there are some marriages that make it when the WS wants a divorce. I'm kind of hoping that will be my case, but it's still early. Things seem to be getting better for me.<P>Hang in there. I gotta run to dinner and church. I'm a three time a week attender these days. I figure I need all the help from God I can get. I'll be sure to keep you in my prayers.