Hi,<BR>I missed all of you last week!!<BR>Had a great vacation - even finally made in roads and made love!!! - H said he had felt like I was pressuring him to perform - pressuring him for sex...but we finally, made contact and had some good talks. Yet, we got home late last night after driving 11 hours - took a nap this pm, and when I tried to put moves on him, I was turned away. Same thing tonight - he went to bed at 8 - says he is tired, and is going to work in the am. So, I freaked, as this is when he would meet OW - and the fact that he turned me away - so, I lost it - love busted big time - told him "I can't compete", that I bet he wasn't always tired for her, that all the weekends I thought he was working I know he was with her - I let him have it. He told me to leave him alone, that he couldn't put up with this and went to guest br. Part of me doesn't care because I am tired of being the one who wants our marriage and tired of putting forth all of the effort - and I told him so.<BR>Well, I know I blew it - lb after a good vacation!! Why couldn't I leave well enough alone??? But, it this what I want? I wonder if this is what I am to settle for the rest of my life.... I told him I bet he was never tired for her... I know, I blew it major time... Help!!<P>A

PS-<BR>I am beginning to wonder what this is all about!!! - why should I settle for someone who obviously doesn't feel the same way as I feel for him? why settle for "obligation"? why live the rest of my life feeling bad about myself - ie, my self esteem is suffering major league through all this - why should I continue to doubt myself? I have read SAA, Light my Fire, Drive your man wild in bed, and Hot Monogamy - WHY????? when there is no one who appreciates or wants to be the object of my affection??? OK, friends, I am lost and I am not sure I want to be found... this is too much hurt and pain - too much!!! why should any of us endure this for someone who doesn't care?????<BR>?????A

Annc,<BR>Glad you are back. And you had a good vacation! THAT IS THE MAIN THING. You see, when you and H can relax, he can have a good time and sex w/you. He cares about you. He just can't face what he did to you yet, while you're accusing him, that just makes him diffensive, hard to heal for both of you. I know it's so unfair and makes me mad and tired, I started not loving my H anymore too, but it is just that way. Everybody has major or minor LBs once in a while, but I think you're making a big progress.<P>I burned my baking dish badly on his B-day, while I was rubbing to take black stuff off so hard, I was thinking like "this is what I feel like I'm doing for us!" It seems impossible to come off but if I keep doing it, it gets better little by little! And it's a painfully long process to even think about it, but it does get cleaner as I rub.<P>Your H is around you and wants to work things out, right? You are doing very good, so you can give him a little break. It is not going to be like this for the rest of your life. If you keep trying, then he will start trying, just not soon enough as you want it to be... But things will change. I promise. Your vacation was so good, the LB after seems so small compare to that!<P>Take care

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Annc:<BR><B>Had a great vacation - even finally made in roads and made love!!! -</B><P>Yay!!!!<P><B> H said he had felt like I was pressuring him to perform - pressuring him for sex...</B><P>It is important to listen to that....it is important to realize that he is still working through his mourning over the A and coming out of his withdrawal into recovering your marriage.<P><B>Yet, we got home late last night after driving 11 hours - took a nap this pm, and when I tried to put moves on him, I was turned away. Same thing tonight - he went to bed at 8 - says he is tired, and is going to work in the am. So, I freaked,</B><P>arrrghh... C'mon, babysteps, Ann. You can't know what went through his head making love after all the buildup and pressure. He needs time. Apologize for the LBs, tell him you love him, give him some space. <P>Remember when you thought he'd never make love to you again? Well, you got that done. Not surprising that after an 11 hour drive and a return to the scene of all the marital problems he has a mental disconnect on sex. <P>Get back to Plan A, apologize for flaming him, I'll bet you see more progress right away !!<P>Mike<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mike C2 (edited July 10, 2000).]

Dear Mike and Amy,<BR>As always, I appreciate your kind words and wisdom!<BR>Yes, I definitely agree we are making progress and I have to keep "baby steps" constantly in my mind and not get so impatient.<BR>And, Mike, your insight that is he still coming out of mourning the A really helps put it in to perspective. Also, back to "reality" - the scene of marital discontent - I was thinking the same thing yesterday - that it was good to get away from all the reminders and "worries", and now reality is setting in again. In addition, we are dealing with teenage problems - our eldest is acting out in a major way and dealing with it is very difficult. I think it may have been one of the things H was running from - and, I guess I worry that if it gets bad, he may want to "escape" again. So, that is in the back of my mind...<BR>The book "Light His Fire" is really good, and I highly recommend it. It backs up the Harleys principles about making your H (there is also a "light Her Fire") feel special and loved - meeting needs. I also plan to pick up the book today that JL recommended- "Men Made Easy." I ordered it and it is in - I need all the help I can get! Ha! Are there any other books that y'all recommend?<BR>It is great hearing from you - I really missed this site last week!<BR>A<BR>PS - How do you insert sentences, smiley faces, and links? - so cool and would love to learn how...

AnnC, it's good to see you back, and I'm glad you had a good vacation. I guess while we were encouraging you not to LB on the vacation, we should have also encouraged you not to LB on the return home. Everyone is right. Give him space. I understand completely the questioning of why do you still want to me in this relationship. I ask myself that everytime I think about my H not loving me anymore.<P>You can be strong and do this. The sex thing was great. He probably is feeling an upheaval of emotions right now. Remember how my H told me having sex made him feel more guilty. His PA was only a week. Nothing compared to your H's. The vacation was good! That is what is important. Now, keep it up! You can do it.<P>I actually had a great day on the 4th. My H told me, "I do care about you, I would like to believe that we could be happy, and I am trying. As Mike said, baby steps. Of course, I have now also been told that he is tired of me wanting sex everytime we are alone together. It seems I can't win for trying sometimes. Not enough and he has an A, too much, and I risk losing him forever. How am I supposed to win? So, I'm going to try backing off some. He says, "Why can we just be alone together and enjoy each other's company?" Well, I can't tell him that for him enjoying each other's company involves me stitching on one sofa and him reading or watching TV on the other. Total silence. In total silence, I worry about everything. Does he really want to be here with me? Is he okay? Is his mind somewhere else? Am I doing the right thing? Isn't us sitting around doing nothing all the time what made him think I didn't love him? Are those feelings going to come back? The questions and the worry just seem to go on and on. And I can't talk about anything because much like your H, he doesn't want to talk. So I do the only thing I know we can both enjoy, and I always seem to want sex perhaps because I am still searching for the intimacy. <P>Oh well, I've started to ramble in my thoughts. I just want you to know that we're now in the same boat. You can't persue anything with your H, and I'm afraid to. I guess we'll console each other together. Hang in there. I think the roller coaster is on its way down. I'm keeping you in my prayers.

Hey, L,<BR>So good to hear from you - I just posted on your "good progress." Yes, we always seem to be in same boat, but at least, I hope the boats are heading for calmer waters - I think hope is on the horizon!!<BR>Yes - I can't pursue sex either - although I want it all the time - for intimacy, same as you! I guess what really irks me is that he made plans and went out of his way to have sex with OW - all I want is what he did for her and it hurts that he can't do for me as he did for her! I just want him to want to buy me lingerie, etc. Yet, hopefully with baby steps we can reach that... I hope!! <BR>Please keep me posted - still ups and downs, aren't there? maybe, as you say, not as steep... <BR>I do the same thing - wonder what he is thinking constantly!! especially when there are long silences and he has a pensive look. Riding in a car gives so much time to think, too!! Let's hang in - God bless - you are in my prayers, too!! Amy, and Mike, JL, and everyone else!!! A

<BR>Ann...<P>Go to the EN board and read the topic "Must Read Lostva Post". A great and encouraging story about patience, time and strength.<P>Mike<P>

Annc,<P>Glad to see you had a good vacation with H. Well, as Mike said, one down more to go. I do believe that Mike gave you excellent advice. You are probably dealing with the guilt factor here as much as anything.<P>He feel guilty having sex especially back at home where all of the memories are. It will come back. I would say don't completly quit initiating sex with him, but scale it back. You need to let him know you care and love him (and that is a good way ) but he needs to heal himself some as well.<P>You know the teenage acting out thing is a whole other issue, and isn't conducive to bring things back together fast. Having teenagers myself, it is very hard when they kind of head off in their own misguided direction. It puts a lot of strain on the family, because both parents care for the child (and they are still children, right? ) and they can mess up their future so easily. It kind of overwhelms the other issues.<P>So it sounds to me as if Mike's assessment is dead on. You are progressing. Just one caution, please remember everything that happens to your H is not directly related to you. It can be his job, the children, his guilt, and his issues. So relax a little bit.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Oh, Mike and JL -<BR>Y'all are great - I always look forward to your posts!!<BR>Yes, teenagers put so much strain on a marriage - such a scary job of being the parent of a teen, especially today!! You are so right - you are always worried that they are going to do something to ruin the rest of their life in one impulsive moment! It is a rollercoaster ride, for sure! Has anyone noticed that it seems a lot of A's and divorces happen during the teen years - and it seems to coincide with Mid-life crisis making for a double whammy!!!!! Buckle your seat belts!!! And, I have seen the effect divorce has on teens - it is devastating! Our children know of the A, which really makes this scary and so concerning...worried sick about what they are learning...and how it will affect their relationships with men, etc.<BR>Mike, appreciate the tip on Lostva's post - I need to pray for at least 1/8 of her patience!!! <BR>Talk to you later - <BR>God bless - A

[Quote]<BR>I guess what really irks me is that he made plans and went out of his way to have sex with OW - all I want is what he did for her and it hurts that he can't do for me as he did for her! I just want him to want to buy me lingerie, etc. Yet, hopefully with baby steps we can reach that... I hope!! [Quote]<P>As usual, you've hit the nail on the head for me. I haven't even admitted this one to myself yet, but you are right. I want him to treat me the way he treated OW. I want to be his OW. I want him to share with me those things he shared with her--not just intimate moments, but conversations, hopes, fears, doubts. I know our communication skills were rotten and that is why he doesn't feel comfortable sharing those things with me, but I would like to change that. After all, I want to be a real wife and that is what being a spouse is all about.<P>And, I'll let you in on a secret, I would love for him to buy me lingerie! I never did because it was so impractical and expensive, but I remember one time my Aunt opened up a sexy negligee at Christmas. She was so embarrassed and all I could do was think, "Man, I hope that when I get married, I'll get gifts like that." Of course, I was always complaining about how impractical lingirie was when the truth was, I just think it looks awful on my plump, pale body. My H took those comments to heart as he did every other stupid comment I have made in my life. What I wouldn't give to take back some of those statements now.<P>Good luck. Be good. Here's hoping we'll all get large rewards in the end.<p>[This message has been edited by Lapeine (edited July 10, 2000).]

L-<BR>Ditto!!! Ditto!!! <BR>We can only hope and pray - yet, I wonder if he'll ever feel that way about me. If only the WS's knew how much pain an A would inflict on everyone around them!!! I feel like I am in quicksand - oldest daughter is making things worse - I just want to scream sometimes, and wonder why I'm not in the looney bin yet...<BR>God bless...hang in - A

Hi annc<P>Welcome back sounds like you had a GREAT time exactly what you needed. WE all have LB's even your H. I know it so b***** hard to bite your tongue after a long trip. I bet the next time you will not give the same response. Even if you take one step back take two forward. Hang in there.<P>I get sick of the doing baby steps with little or no response, I keep learning what to say next time we talk. Not a great deal of that when W isn't here. I only wish that the lies may slow down or stop to where she is. I am feeling a little down as I know she said a big one today. Why do I feel that way when she says it. Maybe its me, she obviously doesnt feel any guilt over covering up. I try and keep smiling it could be worse surely it must get better some time in the future.<P>I asked her out for a date next week (and she excepted yipeeeeeee) to chat I intend to speak on nothing to deep and enjoy the moment and no LB's.<P>bye for now<BR>t<BR>

tim tam,<BR>You are so right - this is such a learning process, and isn't it great that we can all get on here, vent, and get great support and encouragement!!<BR>I am glad your wife accepted your date!!! Yay! Just go have FUN - I have found H is much more receptive when I am not trying to discuss issues, ie, getting "deep." Yes, the lies hurt - I keep telling my H I am a big girl and to please not think he is protecting me by lying. I would rather know the truth, but.... guess it is too hard for them to be truthful, unfortunately.<BR>Hang in there, too! Want to hear how your date goes! My fingers are crossed!! <BR>A

Annc,<P>Given what you said in your other posts and what has been said here, I would like to offer on other thing. <P>Don't underestimate the how much your D's behavior is affecting your H. If he is depressed even a little bit, it may really be getting to him. If it is many other aspects of life dim; yes even desire for sex. <P>I don't know if D's behavior is new, but if it isn't, then this may have been part of the package he was trying to escape with the affair. I am not trying to blame affair on D's behavior, but what I am trying to say is that returning home brings a lot of negative back into the picture for him.<P>Lets see, work, reminders of affair, D's behavior, marriage issues. If he is depressed he may be having a hard time handling them. Not that you are having a ball, , but given what he has done, this whole thing may be weighing heavily on him.<P>Some of it will wear off with time, other parts will wear off with Plan A, and other parts will have to be dealt with, D's behavior.<P>Don't you just love those kids . I mean they can be sooo dumb sometimes, and then almost adult at others. The problem is that they often act dumb when the need to act like adults. I'm only smiling because I have experienced how little control parents have of teenagers, especially after they hit 18.<P>Hope this helps.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

JL,<BR>Yes, once again you are so wise!<BR>I definitely think D's behavior contributed to the package of H's need to escape(I am not diminishing my contribution). D acted out last year due to having to move which made life very stressful, and it has continued due to teenage mode...last year was very stressful for us all - H was living on own in new place for 4 months while I was trying to handle rebellion at home. I think he got used to the peace and quiet, no demands, responsibilities, etc. And, yes, I know he is stressed out about D and work, put the A business on top - yes, I would say returning home probably isn't that pleasant for him. I am going to try to "kill him with kindness" and hopefully that will help - sent him an email yesterday telling him I already missed him, I was thinking of him, knew it would probably be a tough day since first day back after vacation, etc., etc. I am trying to compliment and tell him he is loved and appreciated about something every day- overkill? or not? <BR>Isn't it so true?? - these teens want to be treated like adults, then they act like toddlers!!! How many children do you have again, and what are their ages? When does it get better, or does it? I had always been told that girls usually start coming around when they are 17 - I am still waiting...<BR>You just hope and pray that they survive, for one, and that they don't do anything that will mess up the rest of their life!!<BR>Oh, the joys...<BR>Wish me luck - sleeping dragon has not arisen yet - we'll see what today brings ! You gotta love 'em, but oh this is hard...<P>My bridge group would always laugh at how we had been lied to - that "life begins at 40!"<BR>Maybe crazed life - ha!!!<BR>God bless - A

Annc,<P>It does,when the kids are out of the house. <P>To answer you question: I have three children, 20s,17d, and 13s . We see signs of intelligent life on the 20 y/o, but it is still just fleeting glimpses. <P>I would suggest one thing about your question of overkill with H. If everything was normal and going well with you and H, would you send the email? I think it is one thing to let people you know you love them, but if they feel it as pressure it may not do the good you want.<P>Having said this, let me go a little further. You have evaluated your past relationship with your H. If this is new behavior, do it because you have decided you want to do it for the rest of your marriage. Tell him that or ask do you mind if I send you these emails. Explain that you want to do it, because you realize that it is something you would like to do for the rest of marriage, not just now when things are tough.<P>I know I am not being really clear here, but it seems to me if he appreciates that these are acts on your part because you want to do them and not an attempt to manipulate the current situation, then he will be more receptive and it will help fill the love bank.<P>Does this make sense? People enjoy compliments and such when they feel they have earned them. You H may have trouble understanding your love for him, inspite of everything he has done. If he comes to realize that you always loved him but just wasn't good at showing it, and now you want to show it in more obvious ways, then he may accept your deposits in the Ole Bank. Man that was a long sentence.<P>I think I have repeated myself enough . Take care and God Bless,<P>JL<BR>

JL,<BR>I love it - "fleeting glimpses of intelligent life in 20y/o" ! Ha!<BR>We both have D's that are 17, and our other D is 14(see more intelligent life in her - you can actually reason a little with her).17 y/o thinks she can now do whatever she wants because she is "legal" in this state - such a stupid law! and she reminds us every day since her b-day last month. AAARRRGGGHHH!<BR>Yes, it something I want to do for rest of marriage, not meant as manipulation and I think it is a good idea to communicate this to H - your point was clear and very good."Light His Fire" made the point about complimenting your spouse and making them feel special - yet, I think you are right on about not wanting my H to think it is manipulation and only during tough times.<P>Since you have both sons and daughters, do you think one sex has been "easier" to raise?<BR>I've always heard girls can be tougher...<P>JL, how are you and your W doing - hope you don't mind my asking...<P>TAke care, A

Annc,<P>W and I are doing fine. This site helped me tremendously in getting my act together and seeing that things could be changed and I was the one to do it. I did not have the issues that you and many others have, but actually reading here on the infidelity site really helped to clarify my thinking about marriage and my marriage in particular.<P>As for which is easier to raise. I really don't know the answer. All of my children are heavily into sports particularly the D, so some of the issues such as boyfriends and stuff are reduced in significance. So I cannot really tell. I will say in the Jr. Hi period the daughter was much easier than the boys. The girl "cared" about grades and what the teacher thought. The boys attitude was "whatever". They just didn't care. Of course they are/were growing at a tremendous rate. Youngest grew 7 inches in one year.<P>I agree the age 18 (here) where they are technically adults is really stupid. They know soo much. In fact we have a friend who explained to his 17 year old, that he should leave school (a junior in HS), leave home, and start his own business. His reasoning to the boy was it was unlikely that he would ever know as much as did right now. <P>So to answer your question, I don't know. I do think parents tend to worry about girls more than boys, but you know I wouldn't want to be in HS again for all the money in the world. It wasn't my peak time.<P>Take care,<P>JL

Dear JL,<BR>Got the book - YAY!!! Can't wait to read it!! I need all the help I can get!!!<P>My D's were big into sports until we moved here - we are trying to start their favorite by beginning a club team because they don't have it here so it was a major loss. <BR>Went to counselor today and going to set up appts. for them in the am...<BR>Yes, I agree, girls care more about school, typically, yet they can be more mouthy(at least mine are).<BR>Will start book tonight - will keep you posted - her last name is Oh - Ha! where was your mind??? (nevermind...) <BR>God Bless - A