Hi ann<BR> The children can be such a drain on you some days.Then the next they something that absoltuly floors you . They grow up sooo quickly their brain hasnt caught up to the the adult they look like. They havent got the life experiences behind them to communicate like adults.On the other hand I know of adults that have never matured. <P>My elder son has over the past year only grown a brain. I suppose being at work and being surrounded by adults that treat him a such and not some cheeky child has helped.<P>On the subject of your emails. I always phoned my wife everyday just to say hi and see how her day was. When I found out about the A I rang more often. I now realise I was checking up on her. During the past two months I never called her at all. Oh how I missed them, Im sure she did to. <P>Its only during the past two weeks that I have called to pass on messages and during this time I tested to see the responses I was getting. I never let her know how I felt as she never spoke of her feeelings during that time. I thought she never had any. <P>What I am trying to say is test the responses you get as to what you write next time. Try different days, times or dont send any at all. Look at the response to see what worked and what never.<P>remember, never expect anyone to think and respond the way do. The only person you can change is you. <P>Ive been married for 23yrs and never taken my weding ring off once. I have 3 children M21,F19,F14<P>hang in there<P>lol <BR>T<p>[This message has been edited by timtam (edited July 12, 2000).]

Dear timtam,<BR>Thank you for your post!!! We have been married the same amount of time, although our 24th anniversary is coming up next month.<BR>Our children are around same ages, too! Our 17 y/o D's brain is definitely checked out - my 14 y/o D seems wiser and more mature - always has!! 17 y/o is very draining, but you gotta love her!<BR>As to the emails - H never even acknowledges them! I have to ask if he got them...so, I plan to follow JL's advice and ask if he wants me to do it... it is so hard knowing what to do through all of this,isn't it? Constantly questioning myself!!<BR>JL - Got the book!!! I am on p.63 - what an eye opener - feel like I have been doing things so wrong, or could have done them differently, for so many years!! Thank you for the recommendation!! <BR>Thank you JL and timtam for your posts! Timtam, when is your date? I will be praying it is great!<BR>Take care and God bless - A

Hi Ann<P>It seems ironic that so many problems in marriages happen in your forties. I was told that life begins at forty. Well for me I thought a few months ago it was ending.<P>My date is on monday night the 17th. Im not sure of the time difference to you but I think we are about 15 hours in front.<P>I recieved some good advice from my counsellor who said start evry question with would. Would you mind if I did.....Would you mind you if I call you... Would you call me on..... etc<P>Its great that you are doing something for yourself. Your learning girl. You cant change the past only the future. <P>lol<BR>Tim

CONTACT WITH OW!!!! BAD DAY <P>Went to dinner last night and had a good conversation - I brought up some points I have read in "Men Made Easy" - some things I am learning about the male perspective - H liked, and we even discussed a little about EN, although he didn't agree with Harley's list - he said one of his top EN is to feel important(would that come under one of Harley's needs or is that another one?) Anyway, good dinner, and then we came home...<P>Found out H went by to see OW yesterday on way home from work - she was taking something to customs at the airport and he rode by to see if he would see her - I confronted him and he admitted- after strong urging from me. H told me she called him Monday to tell him she was having, or had had surgery - the ol' sympathy factor gets 'em every time!!! I broke down; he broke down. Told me it has been the most painful thing he has ever been through in his life - I dittoed. I told him how I felt about OW: how can he trust someone who is married who was out there "looking?"(he said he can't) Isn't he angry that she is the one who revealed the A to me and our D's;that I never even suspected til she started calling - that I am very angry with her about involving and hurting our children! What kind of mother would want to involve the children!!!!-and she only called after school hours when they were home!! That I feel she is mean and not to be trusted and that I don't want him to ever have any contact with her again - that I can't survive it! That I don't understand the attraction to her, or why he would want her!!<BR>He said he doesn't want her or love her - I told him that if he does I love him enough to let him go because I want him to be happy, and that he should be with her if she makes him happy. Said he doesn't love her or want to be with her, he wants me. I told him that she really knows how to push his buttons, and that I don't - he said, "yes, you do..."<BR>(ok, so I really got to vent about her)<BR>H said he never wants to go through this ever again;that he is so sorry and regrets it so much. I told him I had really been trying hard to show him how much I love him and that I, too, regretted any hurt I caused him in the past. We agreed that there have been some rough spots and that we want to make our m better than ever! He said I have been wonderful, that he loves me more than anything, that he is amazed at how I have changed(ie, no love busters, etc.). He agreed to read SAA!!! We cried, hugged, said we love each other, he doesn't want to hurt me again, we made love...I asked him to write her the letter to end it - he took SAA with him to work this am and says he will write it, however, he kinda balked when I said I wanted a copy of it...(not good,huh?). <BR>Woke up really sad this morning - although I think some very positive things happened last night. I told him this am that it makes me sad that he even tried to see her, especially after such a good vacation, and that he is still hiding things from me: he didn't tell me she had called and he is still erasing calls from his cell phone! ie, still not open and honest with me. He hugged me before leaving, and said "we are going to make it through this, I promise - I love you!" <BR>OK - am I crazy?? Do I believe him? I knew she wouldn't give up so easily!!!!! Do I have stupid written on my forehead??? - or do I wait and see what happens with this letter...<P>tim - I appreciate your last post - your counselor's advice on how to word questions is good! Also appreciate your encouragement.<BR>I think "they" lied about "life begins at 40!!!!!!" Ha!!! (maybe, midlife Crisis!!)<P>Take care all -- A<BR> <BR>

Annc,<P>The <B>EXCITEMENT</B> begins at 40. <P>You did well and you don't have anything on your forehead. Your H on the other hand may have something scribbled up there. It seems to me he is telling you the truth. He really wants the marriage, but there may be some slipups, as the disentanglement continues.<P>Are you enjoying the book? What have you found the most surprising or shocking ?<BR>It does change you perspective doesn't it.<P>Your comment about H not agreeing with Harley's list is exactly what I was talking about in Delilah's thread. It is more the choice of words that bother people. Often when the same thing is stated slightly differently then agreement is found. <P>Lets see important could that be admiration? Or perhaps appreciated? Or some combination of these things. Schizzo made a very shrewd observation last night on Delilah's thread that the needs things was just the prelude to the connection and repairing the marriage.<P>Your H will get the idea. Harleys choice of categories can be labeled differently it is the fact that people do have them and meeting them sets the table for building a great marriage.<P>Hope you are feeling better, it sounds to me that last night was a very productive one for the both of you. Hang in Annc, you are doing well.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>PS I will be out of town for the next 8 days. I hope to hear great things when I get back.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Annc:<BR><B>- or do I wait and see what happens with this letter...<BR> </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yow, a lot going on there. I only have a minute, but I would say that a no contact letter "allegedly" sent by your H without your approval and review is less than useless, literally. You should review, approve, and watch it go in the mailbox, in my opinion, and I believe that is what he should be reading in SAA today, if I recall.<P> <P>

JL and Mike,<BR>JL,thank you...for the "you are doing well!"I will make some notes while I am reading; I am highlighting, but want to write things down to make them stick in my mind and I will gladly share what I find to be the most surprising or revealing...the perspectives are amazing...given me a new outlook..I think H was amazed at the things I shared... Where is Delilah's post? Would like to read it. <BR>Mike and JL, H just called - he said that he thinks the letter in SAA is perfect and is going to copy it, will give me a copy, and he is sending it by courier...reiterated that we are going to make it, that he wants ME, and that it is the worse thing he has ever experienced and he wants to make it up to me...will do anything to rebuild our trust.<BR>Mike - I posted to you re. your W and physical intimacy and now I can't find it...Ha! I need to start writing down where I post because I think I am brain damaged...or as my D's tell me, a blonde!<BR>Thank you all for being here. Have a great trip, JL - will miss ya! Take care and God bless - A<BR>PS - I think we may make progress - I hope and pray, but forgive me if I say, if this ever happens again, I think "a Lorena Bobbitt" is in order!! (just joking...)<BR>

Annc,<P>Delilah's post is in recovery section. I am glad you are enjoying the book. I am always reluctant of suggest books, especially of this type since I have read two in my life, but somehow the beginning of that book sure does sound alot like what I see written here at MB, by many wives.<P>Anyway, have a good one and I do think your H has gotten the bit in his mouth now. You may see some surprising things in the week I am gone.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Well, of all the days she wasn't at work!!!!<BR>Still no letter delivered...maybe Monday...<BR>we'll see...<BR>Mike, interested in hearing from you. I posted on your post in EN's. You've been a great mentor for me...<BR>Timtam - let us know how your date goes...<BR>Take care, <BR>A