Well, gals, I think I'm with you on the sex thing. So, no sex for me for awhile while I try to follow my own advice that I have been posting to you. I guess periodically, I will let my H know that I am wanting it just so he doesn't slip back into that "She never wants sex" mode.<P>Now, can I vent? I am so tired of the self-pity/guilt thing. I know he wants to just "be alone" (may I remind you of what happened the last time he wanted to "be alone".) If he wants to be alone so much, why doesn't he just move out and get his own apartment? Not that I want him to do that, but what can I do?<P>So, he does read the board because he used the broken vase analogy. He just thinks he has ruined things beyond repair. Ugh. There goes the self-pity thing. Yes, if he doesn't come out of this thing, get on the ball at working on courting me again, yes, things could get beyond repair. The problem is he's broken the vase, and he is just giving up. He tells me in one sentence that anything is possible and then turns around and says he doensn't think saving our marriage can be done.<P>He tells me he thinks he can change. He wants to learn how to communicate better. He tells me that he's not sure if I can change. I understand this because to be honest, I'm not sure that he can although I do see that he is trying. Of course, then he tells me, I just hate to say things because it just hurts you more. I told him that I already always know the worse and nothing can hurt me more than knowing that he wants a divorce.<P>Has this guy never made a mistake before? Has he never failed before? I realize that I made lots of mistakes in our marriage. That doesn't mean that it is beyond repair. I'm stepping up to the plate and changing the things that should have been changed years ago. I'm getting past my guilt for my contributions and am trying to learn ways of moving on.<P>Now, about affection and this is my last thing, I promise. First, he has an A because he is not getting enough affection from me. Then after the A, I get real affectionate. He tell me too much. So I back off. Now, I've finally had a couple days here and there in which I wasn't in the mood, but I still like to kiss him. What happens last night? I kiss him for to long. He says every kiss is like I am trying to turn him on--which is probably true. So, how do I balance it? I don't know. I just feel like giving up because I can't seem to get it right. Nothing is natural anymore it's like I have to think about everything. Am I kissing him to long? Am I not kissing him enough? Does he want me to hold his hand? Should I show him that I'm hot tonight? I hate having to think about everything. I seem consumed with thoughts of the physical aspect of our relationship. I keep thinking of the comment that OW made that we were just like roommates, and I don't want to be like that, but without affection, I don't know how you are more than just roommates. Should I give up on the affection?<P>It's been 3 months since d-day. When do they start getting over the self-pity thing? Thanks for listening. I really needed to get some stuff out before our counseling session this afternoon. I don't want to vent too much in there.

L,<BR>This is the third attempt at posting - computer keeps cutting me off - if it does it again, I will write later...<BR>A

Here goes -<BR>Our lives have been running in such parallels and I totally relate to everything you are saying! I, too, am tired of questioning my every move or word, and wonder how it is being taken.<BR>I, too, am tired of being affectionate, and wanting to be "courted," too! Again, I will say that if they were affectionate with OW, why can't we get some of the same????<BR>I get weary of pampering and not feeling same feelings in return...<BR>I also grow tired of hearing he wants to work on our marriage, promising to do EN survey and every time I suggest doing it, getting put off "no, not now." Or, feeling like I am bending over backward to make this m better, so why isn't he? Did you see OPrah yesterday - Dr. Phil was on - his advice to a WH was "you made this mess, now you need to everything it takes to clean it up and for as long as it takes to clean it up!!!" Wish my H had heard it!<BR>Do not ever worry about venting here - that's what it is here for and we need to keep encouraging, supporting, and praying for one another - and, help keeping each other sane!! I'm with ya, girlfriend! Let's hang in - as JL and Mike, etc, continually remind me - H is here - so, that means something, doesn't it??? we hope!<BR>Take care - (yay, didn't get cut off this time!) A

I'm wondering if this has been suggested and tried before. If so with what result?<P>Make your self unavailable to him. Make him wonder where you are by going out with friends. Take up hobbies (especially fitness related ones) and activities without specifying where you are. Do not offer any info unless asked. Be vague and secretive. Pretend to be overjoyed and consumed with happiness at all times although I know you will be faking it. And never, ever initiate anything (hand holding, kissing, anything)<P>I am not a big advocate of silly, torturous games, but anything is better than being completely disregarded altogether. I have resorted to these measures myself from time to time with good results. I wish that I had a husband who could stand to be loved, loved, loved to death because I have that much to give, but he can't take it. His love for me is cyclic. He goes through periods of intense love that ebbs until it gradually decreases to nearly nonexistent. Just when I can't take his neglect any longer, he snaps out of it. <P>The amount he loves me seems to be directly proportional to how bad or good I am treating him. If I am ignoring him, he worships me, but if I am extremely loving, he can't stand me. Who knows????

Great Advice from Dr. Phil. If only my H would follow it. Dr. Phil is doing a seminar in September in Oklahoma City. That's only a few hours away and my b-day is Sept 12. I wonder if I could convince my H do to that as a b-day gift for me. Maybe Dr. Phil could tell him to get over things in that straightforward way of his.

L,<BR>Where do you live? I don't think I am too far away either. If you have info, let me know... about Dr. Phil's seminar...<P>I also found oprah.com site on recovery forum this am - there is a link you can click on. Pretty good stuff...<BR>Let me know what you find out...<BR>What are some of the books you recommend again? Have you read Dobson's book?<BR>Let's vent away - do you agree that we have similar feelings?<BR>Thanks, A<P>R,<BR>I don't know about what you recommend - may give it a go - wonder what JL, Mike - how some of the guys would react. They usually have great insight. Yet, it does seem to be true with my H also that when I am "cool" he seems to "be more attentive."<BR>Take care, A

I couldn't relate more to this thread. H has had two years of EA with co worker. He is letting me know the details in small doses. This is probably not the best way because then i have to bring all the incidences back to mind and analyze them again. First it was one lunch, then two years of them (once a month) then receipts show every other week when H paid with credit card (H said they paid out of petty cash) <BR>We go to councelor tomorrow and I am pretty nervous, feel like I am going to be picked apart. <BR>H is very distant, though affectionate lately, no intimacy. Yes, he still works with OW, but the lunches are stopped. They still eat together at work, not a problem for me. <BR>i need to fill out my profile so i don't have to keep writing the saga out, but had to say that I am right in the same boat as you gals, feeling like I am too needy and wanting to hold back, touching his back and wondering if I should just distance myself instead...

Hi - Well we are all in the same boat so to speak. I pushed the intimacy thing because I felt that was the way to connect. Now I have backed off. I am still somewhat affectionate; a small kiss or hand hold. I am not pushing for sex but boy would I like to. I don't understand what the problem is. <P> We are getting along better than ever. My husband seems happier than he has in a long time. we just had a couple of nice vacations so he should be relaxed but it is nil, nada on the affection side. It makes me want to scream!! Now my therapist said , "Was he ever very affectionate before the affair?" and after some soul searching I realize that I have usually initiated everything like that even hand holding etc. but I never had a reason to think it wasn't mutual.<P>I am working on being friends and hoping the being lovers comes soon. I can't say that I'm not obsessing over it because I am. I have seen that when I did finally back off my husband began to relax somewhat. We need to start a new board on deprived affection!!<P> Kris<P>