Sorry, this is a long one...Ok, I have had it with lies, not telling the truth, not owning up to what one did!!! <BR>Found out our oldest teen concocted a big story about something, I believed and it made a fool out of me - not the first time. Then, she proceeded to deny and "argue" about what I had discovered... in my "talk" to her last night - about lies and trust - yes, you got it! triggered all my feelings about H's lies, etc. As I was telling D how damaging and hurtful lies are, the whole trust issue, etc, I found myself wondering if my H was also "hearing" what I was saying.(and thinking what a good role model he is!!- ha!)I went to sit outside alone - think time. H followed me out and wanted to know what was wrong, etc. I voiced that I am tired of the people I love lying to me and not respecting me! that something is wrong with this picture and/or me; that I feel I go out of my way and I get "used" and hurt - being nice just gets me taken advantage of... etc, etc. After this major scene with D, I was LOW! Then, H gets upset with me for equating D's situation to "ours." We got into it- sorry, I lb'd in a big way. Let's see, I hit him with: how I feel about his lying - particularly finding out they were talking after he said he had ended it back in May - that the whole trust issue is gone; I blasted him for continuing to lie to me - in our "good" talk last week(prompted by him trying to pull out of our weekend away)something came up about the money spent on OW - he lied and said he had spent $60! Also lied and said had ordered lingerie one time and it was returned - ok, so I hit him with the "truth" and I was seething because he keeps lying when I know better - I told him how can you say that when you spent $200 alone on the phone meeting service in March, you ordered lingerie costing $120 in March, and more lingerie in April(over $100) and only some of the lingerie ordered in April was returned(he said, "I'll have to check my credits.") Come on!!!! still denying and lying - kept saying, "I didn't spend that much." I said how can you keep denying what is in black and white!!!???Don't continue to lie when I KNOW!! And, then I said, I am sure you had to pay for motel rooms, too. He said no - so, where did you get together? He refuses to tell me!! I hit him with what Dr. Phil said on Oprah - that WS's make the mess and need to do whatever it takes and as long as it takes to clean up the mess, and that they need to give spouse emotional closure!! He went off - said this is not going to work, that I won't let it go, that I won't drop it, it is over! I yelled back saying that if he would just tell the truth and stop perpetuating lies then maybe I could have emotional closure, ie, I would rather know where they met, than conjure up wild visions in my imagination!! He just doesn't understand - said "drop it" "you don't need to know!" -I told him that maybe I should not have stopped him from leaving in May so that he could have been with her... Then H hit me with what a waste of time our weekend away was and said "this won't work, and that I should contact my lawyer, to which I replied "fine!" he asked me how much time I am spending on this site - that I am not getting things done, to which I replied that this rocked my world and I can't help it if I am having trouble focusing - that knowing he made love to another woman is hard to forget - that I can forgive, but the forgetting is hard, especially since he won't help me. That I am so tired of him promising to start rebuilding by doing EN survey, etc, and his refusal to get tested and still not following through on any of it. He then stupidly says he doesn't see the need for testing!!! To which I really blew up!! How can you trust her? You don't know for sure if she has been with anyone else, or her H for that matter!! I asked if they had gotten tested before they had sex - he was so angry and said NO! then, how can you be so sure she is disease free?? you CAN"T!! I certainly don't trust the "piece of trash!!" and how can you not be angry at her for disclosing this whole mess to me and your D's? how did you continue to talk and be nice to her when she obviously tried to destroy our m?? and it is out of lack of respect for me and lack of love for you to continue to refuse to take care of this! that I am tired of lip service and empty promises, that I am fighting like h... for this m., doing most of the work, and he won't follow thru on anything - yes, I think you need to leave... I left and went outside.<P>He found me later - apologies and promises to get tested, and would I please let it go?<BR>I told him he needs to follow through on things, that I have trouble believing him...<P>Ok, let me have it!! The taker in me took over - but, I am so tired of untruths, empty promises, etc - I am stressed, and I guess I have to admit I am doubting if this will work. Am I wrong to want to know where they met so I can get the pictures out of my head? Am I wrong to ask him to get tested?(oh, I forgot - he had the nerve to tell me I can get tested!! I told him I already had back in June but it was a waste since we had not had sex since mid-Feb and that I will have to get tested again. And, that if I can do it, knowing how hard it is to draw blood from me, then why can't he?????) Am I a complete idiot to stay? wondering if a separation would be a good idea....<BR>Sorry this is so long!!! And, yes, I am a MB flunkie - I went against everything. Yet, I don't regret getting some of these things out...<BR>And, to make matters worse, D left last night - I discovered later, and have no idea where she is...<BR>CALGON TAKE ME AWAY!!!!! I really have the urge to run like the wind........<BR>Having a good day, aren't I? Ha! lol!<BR>Feel like everything and everyone close to me is falling apart - or what ever...<BR>Help! A

.<p>[This message has been edited by BamaAngst (edited August 24, 2000).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Annc:<BR><B>Sorry, this is a long one...Ok, I have had it with lies, not telling the truth, not owning up to what one did!!!</B> <P>Well...let's see....<P>First off, you know this, but at some point you have to give your husband a promise to stop beating him over the head about the affair. He probably won't sign up for a lifetime of sackcloth and ashes. I think he is right to be upset that a lie from your daughter turns into a rehash of his deceptions.<P>Ann, you need to sit down and write down what you need from him to turn the page. If you want and need to know a recounting ofevery meeting they had, when and where, then request that. If you want him to get tested for STDs, then request that. If you want a cost accounting of the cost of his affairs, request that.<P>Then sit down with him and calmly say that you want this list fulfilled, that you will not blast him or go into hysterics over any disclosures or over any liesw that are revealed, and that after he completes this list, the topic will be closed forever.

Annc,<BR>Surprising I still remebered my password! Back from my vacation a wk ago, good things and bad things continued... didn't know what to write. Mostly reading books recommended on this site lately... "Love Must Be Tough", "Light His Fire", "His Needs, Her Needs" and bible.<P>I hear you and can relate all of what you've said. When WS keeps lying (or not telling the whole truth) I don't know which piece is true and which is not anymore, then I start wondering the entire ground I'm on, like: what does he mean by "I love you"? When I told him to tell me when he saw OW by accident, he said "it doesn't do any good to tell you the truth, that's why I didn't tell you that." <P>I wanted to scream "I decide what's good for me, you don't! What do you know about what I want! By the way you are the one don't know what's good for yourself, that's why you can't make yourself happy in any situation!" <P>Actually I just said "just give me a flat fact and that's all I want to know. Then I can make the right decision. Without knowing the truth, I can't make the right decision." No reaction.<P>I feel really sarcastic when my H tells kids (4&2 yr o) "Don't lie to me! Lying is not good! Makes people sad!" Do what I say not what I do. I bite my tongue again and again.<P>My H isn't doing anything (to me anyway) and I'm so tired of making effort alone. But I just decided to keep working on planA, trying to be positive, intimate, nice, (occasionally I fail, of course) for max of 2 years (from d-day). That's my deadline. If he doesn't respond by then, see ya, it's his loss.<P>When I think of my deadline, I feel stronger. I'm not going to live like this forever. I want to tell him "if you go, just go. If you stay, do something about it!" I will tell him eventually, maybe when he's calm and soften up a little. I'm waiting for the right time.<P>Sorry I'm rambling, but you're showing your strength to your H now. I never thought I had to come this far, but I went up and down and finally got enought strength and courage to say "Go, if you want to go!" God gave me this opportunity to be stronger. I'm sorry that you had to go thru this but you're doing great. We'll survive.<P>Nothing good to offer you but I just wanted to talk to you. My prayers with you.

<BR>I don't know if I will ever be able to subscribe to the MB school of thought that the BS should do all the work and try to rebuild. Who exactly is the victim here? Doesn't the WS deserve to be LBed? <P>I think someone should come up with a program that allows the BS to go into hiding until the day that the WS is so filled with regret and over come with longing to reconcile that the WS will do anything to get the BS back. The WS should apologize all day everyday for weeks at least and be willing to answer, truthfully all questions.<P>What exactly is the point of the BS walking around on egg shells as if they are the guilty one? Babying and pampering these whiny assed H's who are pouting that they can't have their cake and eat it too??? NO WAY!!!!<P>While these WS's are busy lying, denying and lamenting over the OW, this is the time to focus on readying yourself financially for the day when you may be alone. <P>When you are certain that you have secured for yourself the most favorable financial situation possible, look for any indication that the WS is truly sorry for his actions and ready to take responsibility for them. If you see no improvement in his behavior, just leave!!! Let him come to you later if he chooses. We can't force these WS's to be sorry and they obviously feel little remorse. <P>If you have wisely manipulated the finances, at least you can take comfort in knowing that maybe he wont be able to buy as much lingerie in the future.<BR> <P>

Thank you Bama, Mike, and Alien for your replies and good advice! I want to post more later but have an appointment and have to run...<BR>Bama - I agree about the Catholic confession!<BR>and why ws's lie - but do they understand they are perpetuating distrust...?<BR>Mike and Alien- good advice about writing down what I want, in fact I left him a voicemail this a.m. telling him basically that he has until next Fri., 8/18 to get tested - that if he doesn't, don't come home. I am sticking to my guns this time as I have given him numerous opportunities and have not followed through - no wonder he does not respect me!! I am a softie and cave in - well, I woke up stronger today than ever - tired of the marshmellow s...- I will be respected; I feel stronger and able to accept whatever..Also told him that if there is any more contact he will need to leave.<BR>I think I will write down questions I need for closure to this whole mess like you suggest - am I wrong to want to know how and where they met, etc.?? For me, wondering and guessing is driving me crazy - if I just know some things I can put closure on it - it's the wondering...<BR>Alien, welcome back!! want to hear how it went...<BR>Mike - agree and will write more later - was a rough night last night...<BR>Wrote more than I intended, but wanted to say thanks!!!!

Ann_C<P>I have to say that I don't blame you for "going off" on your husband. I'm sorry but I guess that I am a drop out here also since I think the WS has NO RIGHT to expect the betrayed spouse to just "let it go" and "don't bring it up". How childish and obscene that the betrayed spouse should not be expected to make it EASY for the adulterer. Sorry, but I think those that make it easy are only headed for another fall because they become enablers.<P>In my case my wife only came to realize that she had better start treating me better and pay some attention to the marriage because I basically told her to "grow up" and "make up your mind what is more important". I told her that I will not be treated the way she was treating me and that I deserved more and that I would rather be alone than treated that way.<P>Let me tell you it was a bit scary but it worked and it worked fast and has been lasting for some time now.<P>Good luck. Don't allow yourself to be treated that way. You deserve more out of life and remember that no matter what was going on in your marriage, NOTHING gives the WS (let's call it what it is - Adulterer) the right to cheat.

Hi, all,<BR>Well, I think a light bulb turned on, maybe only dimly, but I feel differently today. I feel stronger and I don't want to be like Rodney Dangerfield anymore and "can't get no respect." I agree with Pulled Apart in that WS needs to wake up and decide what they want. They may be in this fog, but there is a limit - the light that went on is I really do need to work on myself - ie, learn how to be stronger, not a "doormat", be assertive; I can be nice and friendly, but no more overkill - like all of you have been telling me. I am going to concentrate on myself, being happy, occupied, etc, and if H doesn't like it, tough! If H wants to go, I feel I can handle it... He needs to agree to commit to BOTH of us working together to make this a stronger, better marriage - if it means following some of the framework in SAA to give us a start, then he needs to do it. No more lip service. I did not create this awful mess. He did call this afternoon to tell me he got my voicemail re. testing and that he "will take care of it." So, see, I do need to stand my ground. Now I plan to put into writing what I need as Mike suggests - I also plan to include something to the effect that I didn't deserve this and I will not tolerate this kind of treatment anymore. Ooooh - must have eaten Wheaties this a.m.!!! Seriously, look out! - no more bs! "I feel the power" <BR>Would love any thoughts...<BR>Take care, A

Congratulations, AnnC! It looks like you have eaten some Wheaties! lol! <P>Your post even sounded more confident and energetic as I read it. And let me tell you, confidence is attractive to others and perhaps your "show of strength" will also put a light bulb off in your husband's head. Sometimes I think the WS sees the constant pandering to their needs as a weakness which they do not respect.<P>Goodluck and hang in there! It won't always be easy but take care of yourself while at the same time remaining open to TRUE CHANGE from your husband!<BR>