After recently discovering my W's affair by finding the "letters", it was suggested by my therapist and attorney to enter a 3 week "cooling down" period. I moved in with a friend and limited communications with W. The goal was to shake the anger and immediate urge to file for divorce. <P>Now I am coming to the end of the three weeks, but I don't feel the way I thought I would. I don't have an overwhelming urge to want my W back. I don't even feel anger, but I feel more relief that I know what has caused my W to treat me so poorly for 6 months.<P>Shortly, we will meet and discuss the plans. W seems to be leaning toward a separation(PLANB), which she says that time apart would "rock her world" as to what she is missing. We are both not "in love" anymore. For me, it is more like "out of sight - out of mind." I would think that in order to fall "in love" again that there would need to be dedication and contact with an exchange of LU's. At least, that's how I feel. <P>I would think that our time apart would push me further away - not closer. In fact, I have formed new friendships and all looks great outside the marriage. I will extend my hand to my W one last time under PlanA, but beyond that it doesn't seem to be possible. I just don't see myself waiting for W.<P>Where to go?

Do you have children? That would be the only reason I would see to try again.<P>

Bellevue,<P>Thank you for responding.<P>Yes I have two wonderful young children that I care for dearly. I have extended my hand to work on the marriage, especially for my children. W is seeking a separation with no signs of working on the marriage. She is still caught in the selfishness of the affair, where she is acting blindly. W has spun such a web of lies to friends, neighbors and family.<P>I need to rebuild myself, so I can be the most loving father to my children that they deserve. Unfortunately, within the marriage I can not be that person.

Cupid<P>I am very sorry to hear that you are suffering from your WS's A and her selfish attitude towards the marriage. It seems that she needs the time to find herself.<P>What she wants in the end is difficult to ascertain, especially for you and maybe even for herself. How did she respond when you talk about working it out for the sake of the children?<P>I am touched that you have put your lovely children first. I am still undecided about whether I can last long in my marriage because of my H's A even though H is so remorseful and repentant and would not leave. My baby is the main reason I am even thinking of not divorcing. Without my baby, I would be outta there in a flash. <P>So, in a nutshell, let her know that the children are precious (I hope she does not intend to have the children?) and need the love of both parents.<P>I really feel sorry for your predicament and you are doing the right thing to protect your children. <P>I would also focus my love on the children because at a time like this, they need so much assurance and never allow them to be used as pawns in an adults' warfare. <P>God bless you and the children and help make your lives less difficult and instead let your lives heal and become complete again.<P>Take care - you need to heal yourself - please do not sweep the undeserved pain under the rug - you need to restore yourself for the sake of your well being and your children. <P>

weep,<P>I too am sorry that you are dealing with this pain as we try to keep our children safe and loved. Are we better alone and happy with our children?<P>W has yet to display any remorse. Without this I can not forgive, even though I am willing. Many of her words are without feeling - they are just words.<P>My children are my top concern. The "letters" that uncovered the A, depict a mother that put her children an easy second to her selfish behavior. Ushering the kids into unsupervised rooms or leaving kids with unqualified people to find some time to be with OM. <P>Yesterday, I spent a wonderful day with my kids - had a lot of fun. W was supposed to be home at 6pm. As time ticked by, I tried her cell with no answer. At 7:30 I took the kids out to eat. Upon returning, I noticed a voice message stating she lost track of time - she was at the beach all day and stopped at a bar to eat. Of course, I called her cell again and asked if she was alright - sure she was about one hour away from home. At 10:15 she walks in and attempts to apologize twice, but I return no response. I kiss my kids while they were sleeping and return to my friends house where I am staying for our 3 week "cool down" period after the discovery. I believe no words were needed.<P>Should I be concerned? If I am planning on leaving the house for a separation, would it be in my childrens best interest to ask W to leave. Although, I know she won't. Should I move back to the house to protect my children and sacrifice myself? I have an appointment to discuss many things with my attorney - I hope that he can provide some answers. We also have an appointment with our therapist to discuss to terms of the separation on Sept 5. Oh, much to think about.<P>

{{{Cupid}}}...<P>I understand you're hurt...<BR>...some thoughts to maybe reconsider...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>(#3.) The (betrayed) spouse needs to know that he/she had done his/her best to save their marriage. (page 76 of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>(#4.) If the (betrayed) spouse follows the plans (A & B), and they(the plans) fail, the (betrayed) spouse would no longer have any feelings of love for the wayward spouse. (page 76 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I fear that "3 weeks" of self-destruction of your marriage will haunt you in the future...<P>Working on a marriage... takes effort...<P>If it is so easy to destroy it...<BR>...what have you learned about what it takes to make a marriage work?...<P>I say this because I am an advocate of both Plan A and when necessary... Plan B!<P>BTW... only <B>the person wanting to save the marriage</B> can do Plan A and Plan B!<BR>WS... in general... don't understand the purpose of either.<P>Reflection my friend...<P> <P>Jim

Jim,<P>Thank you for your response.<P>We started therapy in March, when W needed to communicate her desire to end the marriage. The therapy sessions uncovered the all too common communication problem. W slightly expressed a willingness to work on the marriage. Further sessions, exposed W's history of communication problems with other relationships. Unwilling to further explore herself, W avoided further therapy. Although the problem was exposed, W was in denial about herself. I learned much about myself and have vowed to be the best person I can be.<P>We road a roller coaster for the next six months of our marriage. I worked hard on our communications. I felt like I was alone fighting for the marriage. W was not interested in meeting any of my EN's. Over this time I endured many other very difficult personal issues, where W was not there to lend a bit of support. W expressed the pressure to feel again. At this point, we agreed to a Trial Separation. I knew there was more.<P>Three weeks ago I made a discovery of the A by finding some letters. This was the answer. Now after the "cool down" period - I was expecting to propose Plan A. W is unwilling to participate in Plan A, stating that we tried Plan A for six months. I would disagree, since the A was unknown for that period. W is pressing for Plan B with no consideration for recovery of the marriage.<P>I have learned so much about marriage and myself. Therapy, books and this very helpful web site have allowed me to understand more. Without this understanding, I would have skipped Plan A and Plan B with no hesitation. Without thinking of the awful treatment I have endured for the past 6 months, I am still willing to reconcile. I believe W has "lost herself" and because of this I still need to be here for her. Although it may not ever be as her H, but it should be as a friend. <P>

Jim,<P>Thank you for your response.<P>We started therapy in March, when W needed to communicate her desire to end the marriage. The therapy sessions uncovered the all too common communication problem. W slightly expressed a willingness to work on the marriage. Further sessions, exposed W's history of communication problems with other relationships. Unwilling to further explore herself, W avoided further therapy. Although the problem was exposed, W was in denial about herself. I learned much about myself and have vowed to be the best person I can be.<P>We road a roller coaster for the next six months of our marriage. I worked hard on our communications. I felt like I was alone fighting for the marriage. W was not interested in meeting any of my EN's. Over this time I endured many other very difficult personal issues, where W was not there to lend a bit of support. W expressed the pressure to feel again. At this point, we agreed to a Trial Separation. I knew there was more.<P>Three weeks ago I made a discovery of the A by finding some letters. This was the answer. Now after the "cool down" period - I was expecting to propose Plan A. W is unwilling to participate in Plan A, stating that we tried Plan A for six months. I would disagree, since the A was unknown for that period. W is pressing for Plan B with no consideration for recovery of the marriage.<P>I have learned so much about marriage and myself. Therapy, books and this very helpful web site have allowed me to understand more. Without this understanding, I would have skipped Plan A and Plan B with no hesitation. Without thinking of the awful treatment I have endured for the past 6 months, I am still willing to reconcile. I believe W has "lost herself" and because of this I still need to be here for her. Although it may not ever be as her H, but it should be as a friend. <P>

Cupid,<P>In general...<BR>...the spouse looking "fix" the marriage is the one that Plan As or Plan Bs....<P>Rarely will "both" of "you" ("We") do a "Plan A" or a "Plan B"!<P>This does mean that you (the one wanting reconciliation) will be doing Plan A (or Plan B) by yourself!<P>During that six month period...<BR>...did you really Plan? <BR>...i.e. (from the book)... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Plan A: Avoid <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3401_angry.html" TARGET=_blank>angry outbursts</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3402_disrespect.html" TARGET=_blank>disrespectful judgments</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3404_selfish.html" TARGET=_blank>selfish demands</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3403_annoy.html" TARGET=_blank>annoying behavior</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3405_dishonesty.html" TARGET=_blank>dishonesty</A> (i.e. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>!) at all costs. (page 75 of SAA)...<B>and</B> at the same time, if your spouse would let the you, you should try to meet your spouse's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A> (page 77 of SAA) that is...<BR><OL TYPE=1><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3305_aff.html" TARGET=_blank>Affection</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3310_sex.html" TARGET=_blank>Sexual Fulfillment</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3315_conv.html" TARGET=_blank>Conversation</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3320_rec.html" TARGET=_blank>Recreational Companionship</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3325_hon.html" TARGET=_blank>Honesty and Openness</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3330_att.html" TARGET=_blank>An Attractive Spouse</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3335_fin.html" TARGET=_blank>Financial Support</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3340_dom.html" TARGET=_blank>Domestic Support</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3345_fam.html" TARGET=_blank>Family Commitment</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_ad.html" TARGET=_blank>Admiration</A></OL><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>???<P>If you really, honestly have...<BR>...then I'd still suggest that you move to a Plan B! You still have love for your spouse... you, yourself say..."I am still willing to reconcile".<BR>When you can no longer Plan A...<BR>...that's when you move to Plan B.<P>Check out my...<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000176.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.)</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000177.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 101 (2nd ed.)</A> posts.<P>Plan B gives that healing time...<BR>...even if you do divorce!<P> <P>Jim

Thanks again Jim for your helpful reply.<P>W has a difficult time expressing her EN's directly. I believe that I have identified the EN's that have been missing in our m. It seems that deep conversation, which does not include daily activities, kids, family and the house has been missing from our conversations. This caused a disconnection and left the door open for the emotional A. Our disconnection has been so long that W believes there is no hope.<P>I still want the opportunity to meet this specific EN, especially since I also enjoy the same rush from the EN. It would be sad to think that we were missing the same thing, but did not know how to communicate the need. I have been so much more open, since I believe this is the door. W is overwhelmed by this change. W's Withdrwal has been in place for many years. Unfortunately she is not one to express herself, so the Conflict stage was practically non-existent.<P>Plan B is in discussion, but I wish I had the opportunity to meet this EN before Plan B. I have read the books, attended therapy sessions and visited this web site countless times. Although I can't force W to Plan A, I would hope I can leave that lasting impression without any LB's.

Good. That is a great stride. Both missing the same EN. The grind of daily living can sometimes take its toll. Can you get a babysitter or relative to help you while you spend some time alone with W?<P>All the best to you - strike while the iron is hot.

weep<P>Thanks for you insight. It always helps.<P>I just asked for a date this morning, where I said we would leave our issues behind. I was as nervous as a school boy. I'm thinking of it as a first date, where we get to know each other again. No pressure - no expectations. W was surprised, but said that she would think about it. I said that is good enough for me.<P>We shall see...<P>I know that you are also thinking of your baby. You should read a recent article about the effects of divorce on children. I think you can go to <A HREF="http://www.msn.com" TARGET=_blank>www.msn.com</A> to view the article. It is also in the September issue of Newsweek.<P>Keep the faith.

Cupid<P>Thanks -<BR>Is it the one on "Growing up in a one parent home - how will it affect your child's future relationship?"? That is why it is so much safer for the child if the marriage works out.<P>If you knew me before this, you would never believe that I would give a second chance but with innocent children in the equation, one has to minimise the repercussions. <P>I figure my marriage is already destroyed and my life all screwed up, both of which will take all my strength and God's grace and others' support to help pull me through. I am the adult here, so how will the little ones cope with the loss and the one-parent thing bugging them all their lives?<P>Then in my worst moments when I mentally reject the idea of staying in a defiled marriage, I think if I would rather have a irresponsible and selfish husband or a dead one. The choice is quite obvious now, although I must say it wasn't an easy choice in the earlier days! <P>I hope your wife is slowly finding her own identity again in the marriage. Some people find that all of a sudden they no longer matter the way they were in their pre-marriage days. They want their 'SELF' to be the center of someone's life. Some call it mid-life crisis. <P>My friends have this feeling that they no longer get the head-turners when they walk down the street and they get a little depressed that their lives may be 'over'. But not all get into an A.<P>Like I said in another thread, different people go into As for different reasons, but the important thing to do is to calmly take stock of our own marriage and recognise why we want to save it and how.<P>It is not easy. In fact it is about the tougest thing one can do in life when the WS is in limbo. <P>For me, it is tough when friends pose the question of what ENs are missing from my husband's life and some even insist that there must be some ENs I am not meeting despite H's reassurances (H got pissed drunk and aggro woman staff got him, aggro threatened and H got stuck for almost two years, ended abruptly when OW tried to knife him in a public place and OW landed in jail for some nights. OW came to my house and H fessed up). I can never come to terms with such a sensational story.<P>I am currently reading "forgive and forget - healing the hurts you do not deserve" by Lewis B Smedes. You can make the CHOICE to forgive people who do not care, etc..<P>You see, the WS is the one with the guilt but not the PAIN, the BS are the ones saddled with the PAIN. We have to do ourselves the favour of purging out the tormentors gnawing at our hearts, making living so tough and the world unbearably distant. We release the WS from a debt (hey, I am preaching but still not able to practice this one yet! ).<P>Anyhow, take comfort that you will come out of this stronger and better and more focused than before. <P>How's the date, dear?

weep<P>I couldn't agree with you more. I struggle with the actions involved with Forgiveness. <BR>Without a remorseful word - the burden rest on us. I was very vocal before our marriage that the one thing I could NOT tolerate is infidelity. Now I am faced with gaining strength to overcome what I thought I could not.<P>The children are the biggest concern. I don't really know W's plans. I am fearful that W is planning to take the children and live with the OM. My concern is that my children should not be subjected to relationship born from an A, especially since W is still in a selfish mode. Although she is the greatest mother, I have discovered several times that they were not W's priority when in the presence of the OM. I am not sure if this is her plan, but since I agreed to move out - it could be possible.<BR>I will review with my attorney the options. But, I want to do what is best for the children - not myself.<P>I have not yet received a response on my date offer, but it is still early. I guess we analyze every movement and word of the WS, especially since the honesty and trust are difficult to obtain.

Cupid,<P>If you really want the kids, please do something.<P>You can get a P.I. on your wife and get the evidence to keep in your attorney's office or a safe deposit. Please get legal advice on this.<P>That is in case your W wants custody in the case of a split.<P>You may also want to know more about the enemy a.k.a. OP to gauge the situation.<P>Keep your chins up and pray to Him above.

Hi Cupid,<P>Thanks for posting me.I'm going to try the lone counselling bit -just so I can get a clearer perspective on all the messed up stuff thats going on around me.<P>I understand the relief you felt when you found out about your Ws A. I also went through the same darkness as yourself. Things around me just didn't make sense anymore - almost to the point that I began to doubt my own sanity! The fact that you trust your spouse more than anyone else in the world, makes it almost impossible to believe that they could ever deceive you. When the full scale of the deception hits you it feels like you are caught in quicksand - the more you struggle the worse your situation becomes..<P>My H also is no help in trying to reconcile. I feel I am giving 110% and he is contributing nothing. Does this mean he has no intention to try to repair the damage,or is he so caught up in the A, that his mind doesn't function normally anymore. I feel he is a very poor imitation of the person I knew and loved. It's a terribly sorry situation for all of us to be in.<P>I hope you can solve some of your problems - especially regarding the children, you seem to be handling it all in a very logical manner - so I am sure you will win through in the end no matter what your ultimate wishes are.<P>Bye for now<BR>Trisha<BR>