I have not JUST find out but I try to find help.<BR>We live in Croatia so a lot of books mentioned on these pages are not availible for me.<BR>I am 42 and my H od 42 has a lover of 32 for a year (she has never been married, is well known for having more lovers, abortions and caused some marriage brakes; and WE were first to each other, ). At the beginning we tried with counceling but it failed. 4 months ago he bought me and my younger D (10) a new appartment and he and our older D (18) stayed in our family house. Until then we are separated and we devided our financial matters but he doesn't fill for divorce. He started to constantly live with his lover and older D two months ago. He picks our younger D every weekend but they hate each other (D and OW). I am the whole year desperate and I only want him back to restore the family, I still love him so much, I am ready to forgive him everything only to come back. But he non-stop repeats he would never be back, he doesn't love me for more than 10 years, I didn't show him love for a long time, I was not enough interested in sex, I am guilty what happpened.. and that he would soon fil for divorce., what I am terrible afraid. I already had an suicide attempt and when I get a court invitation I think I would kill myself for real. I could not live without him, I cry all day and night and I am a disaster for my young D. I have lost 60 pounds and to be honest I am now quite a good (not as she) looking., but my life has no sence any more. <BR>You all here seem to me much more reasonable, can you help me ? How to forget him and learn to live alone? Is it possible after 21 year relationship? <BR>Is possible a reconciliation after so long affair? Is there any possibility for me and D that he would be back to us, whenever?<BR>Has anyone positive expirience after such a long affair, but relatively short (4 months) separation? I love him so much, I need him desperately, I miss him in every sence, even in sex. What would be my future without him? Last few month I tried with REIKI (I don't know if it is right spelled in English), I try and try but I still can't move on. <BR>My H is so ocuupated with the OW so she is even more important to him than our YD, and he is so long in that affair so I can't see the hope for me that he would be back : old, not so attractive, too much educated and obviously not enough good and gentle and nice in every sence (especially sex) for him. Even my OD refuses contact with me, she much more likes OW, cause she is more fun, does not control her, leave her freedom to do what she wants...<BR>Did you ever hear that such a long affair (it seems to me that they become more and more happy) can end in reconciliation with the spouse? How can I become interesting for him? I can't accept he left me forever .<BR>Have anyone some smart advice or some good experience?<BR>Can my H get out of the fog after more than a yearn can he ever want to be again with me and both of D<P>I am e-mailing with W.Hurley yr and he is convincing me that my H will return but I don't believe him no more, a year has passed and he is mnore and more addicted to OW and more and mor far away from me. He even started to hate me he only screams to let him in peace, not to call or talk or see me. The things are getting worse not better in every sence. I lost a minimal hope for reconciliation after such a long time and after so ugly words said from both sides.<BR>please someone help me

I am so concerned for you! This is just such a bad situation. I cannot imagine the pain of having your H act in this manner and then having your daughter become friendly with the OW. This is just a terrible thing.<P>I cannot say that after a year he will return. I just do not know. It sounds very much like he does not care about anything or anyone but himself. But you have only been separated for 4 months. My H started an affair last July, 1999 (he was 44 & OW was 32). I discovered in January. We have never separated. But there was a pregnancy and the OW had his child in July of this year. He says he wants to be here & does not want to loose our sons (6 & 7 years old). I don't think he loves me, but at this point he does not want to be with her anymore. Maybe you will hear from others who have been through physical separations and finally reconciled.<P>I would continue to be friendly to him, but I do not think I would allow him to take younger D to your family house if the OW is going to be there. Your YD does not need to be around this woman. And please do not feel like you are less than this OW! You are not in a competition with her! She can never measure up to you! You are the loving, smart, beautiful mother of two daughters. She is nothing. Please do not let her make you unhappy. And yes, you can go on and have a great life. If your H comes to senses he will be there with you. But do not worry about it. Be open if he wants to reconcile, but do not let this ruin your life. Continue counseling by yourself. Your daughter deserves a happy, healthy mother. You owe it to her to live a good life and help her grow up. It is sad that your older D is acting this way, but she is at an age that is so rebelious. She will regret it one day. I am sure she just wants to have her fun and have no one object.<P>Take Care... Carolyn

Hi,<BR>I'm so sorry for your pain. It must have been very hard for you.<P>I do believe it's very possible to reconcile after one year of affair. Although you don't have an access to these books you can surf the net so you know ENs and other important stuff, right? <P>First of all I think your H is in a fog and more you cry and beg more he gets irritated. I know it's really hard to do, but don't show your weakness to him now. Try to focus on yourself and your daughter and try hard to enjoy your life. <P>I can't promise you that your H will be back, but if you are miserable he can't be attracted to you. You know about Plan A right? That's for yourself, showing your H how great person you can be. And if you lost 60 pounds and looks great, that's great! Get yourself nice outfit, again, do things for yourself.<P>Again, I'm really sorr for what you have been going through.. Please be strong for yourself and your daughers, and keep posting..<P>Take care,<P>Meg

Just wanted to say that you may want to post on general question 2 area.. you may get more responses there.<P>Meg

I think it is very possible that you H will come back. I was separted with my H for 2 years, and we are back togeather. You were married 21 years that is 20 more than thier 1 year togeather, remember that. WS almost always say to the spouse, they don't love them and haven't for a long time. But If I was you, and believe me I have been where you are, I would learn to LOVE myself. For noone can love you if you don't love yourself. Take the time to work on yourself, while he is being selfish. Do some nice things for yourself, buy some new clothes, go get a make over, go dancing..think of yourself as young and attractive..pretty soon you will be, I will quote a very wise friend of mine (catnip)<BR> -"So much of it is attitude, Noodles, if not nearly all. Some even say that one can almost 'heal thyself' with attitude and changing their overall take on life." <P>As for the oldest daughter, my children also loved the ow, they thought her fun, and yes, she let them do what ever they wanted, children love that..think about it no rules. But who do you think she will want when she gets sick or something goes wrong? MOMMY no one can take that away from you, remember that, teenagers don't think sometimes, but believe me she still loves you. Keep your head up, and take care of yourself. Come here and talk with us, all of us, we care, and there are many wise people on here who can help you through this, so hang it there. It will all be worth it in the end. My prayer are with you. <P>noodles

Betrayed and Desperate, <P>I am so sorry hearing all this. Hope this can help, at least a bit: I'm 37, living in Croatia now (Zagreb), and I've already ordered SAA and His needs/Her needs via my friends living in the States (expecting them soon here). However, it's not a problem to purchase books by direct order. Only, customs fees are almost as high as the price of the order. <P>Please, contact me at adrian_faith@yahoo.co.uk, I will be happy to meet you or at least talk to you by phone. I do understand very well, I'm separated too, unfortunately, and OW from my story also had multiple affairs, never married. I posted in General Questions II and Plan A/Plan B sections, so you can do search on my name if wish to see more of my posts. <P>In the meantime, please keep posting here and come every time you need support. I find this site a great help to me; in fact it helped me to pass the worst period of crisis. <P>Hang on, lady ... <P>Adrian <P><BR>

Sorry, I forgot to tell, but I speak Croatian, so you can e-mail me in Croatian. <P>I'm thinking of you ... <P>Adrian

betrayed,<P>I am worried about your suicidal thoughts and attempt. Are you currently seeing someone for that? You must make an appointment and get on some antidepressants. Make a promise to us that you will not do anything to harm yourself. Get a therapist and call him/her first if you ever again have thoughts of doing that to yourself. <P>You must also remember that you have two daughters who need their mother! Yes, the older one may be a bit confused at the moment but what about your younger daughter that is living with you? Would you really want to inflict that kind of pain upon her? Think of how much pain you are in now. Her pain would be far more than what you are experiencing. You need to see a doctor. You need to be a good mother for both of your daughters. Your older daughter will come around eventually. It is possible that she can not deal with your depression and that is why she has refused contact with you. I am begging you for your children, do not do anything to yourself if only for their sake. please keep us posted.<P>cleo<p>[This message has been edited by cleopatra (edited November 07, 2000).]

Dear betrayed and desperate,<P>[QUOTE]Originally posted by betrayed and desperate:<BR>I didn't show him love for a long time, I was not enough interested in sex, I am guilty what happpened.. and that he would soon fil for divorce., what I am terrible afraid. I already had an suicide attempt and when I get a court invitation I think I would kill myself for real."<P>1. Whatever needs there are not met in a marriage should be first communicated to a spouse before jumping into bed with some OW. If that was not communicated to you before, than your H was wrong in not explaining to you his needs. If he had communicated to you, then that is different but do not beat yourself over what had happened. Affairs happen to the very best of marriages as in my case. It has something to do with character deficiency of the WS.<P>2. Please let your H know that you love him so much and that he is costing you a lot of anguish. But DO NOT take your own life at any cost. Take it from me who had a nervous breakdown and wanted to commit suicide and harm my newborn because I couldn't take the blow of an affair in our golden marriage (as WS calls it all the time).<P>Taking your own life is a very selfish and sinful act and my family and pastors told me that I leave behind a lot of loved ones who will never be able to accept and resolve such a tragedy. I couldn't cope with my baby and was brought to a family member's home so that they can take care of baby and watch over me. I was given urgent counselling and was prescribed anti-depressants (which I couldn't take because I was nursing).<P>What kept me from suicidal thoughts was God's love and support of loved ones and continued couple counselling. Books and the bible help give me a better perspectives of things. <P>Please banish those negative suicidal thoughts because there are really so much to live for besides the fidelity and love of mortal man. You have accepted that your spouse was unfaithful and you can still love him and want him back. It is a wonderful capacity to be able to be so selfless in loving a man in this manner. Your daughters deserve that selfless wonderful love to help them grow into steadfast and healthy people. I trust that they can learn more about treating people with respect than from their father. Please give your daughters a CHANCE at having such a loving mother. They deserve your love.<P>One day you will be stronger than today. One day, you will think about what you had done and realised that you would never advice someone to take their own lives because that life is so precious, it really is not your right to take that. You never know, but one day someone will benefit from your painful experiences and you will save one life. THere really is so much to think and live for besides a mortal man's self-seeking love.<P><BR>QUOTE:<BR> How to forget him and learn to live alone? Is it possible after 21 year relationship? <BR>Is possible a reconciliation after so long affair? Is there any possibility for me and D that he would be back to us, whenever?<BR>Has anyone positive expirience after such a long affair, but relatively short (4 months) separation? <P><BR>I try and try but I still can't move on. "<P>1. Millions of people have affairs because that is the selfish nature of people. Some good people have affairs, too. They often forget how they hurt the loved ones, until it is too late and things take on a life of their own. You will never forget your H but you can forgive him, yourself and your D for the hurt in your lfe. To forget is to release the anger, hatred, bitterness, jealousy, etc, in your heart and say "I give up my right to hurt you for the hurt you gave me".<P>Train your mind to think on the positive things in your life. Focus on the love of your daughter and pray for the love of your older daughter (you can give her presents for her BD, tell her that she can confide in you, help her in ways that you know how and be her friend). <P>2. I know that there are long affairs that had the men coming back because ther guilt of their selfishness and familiarity of the wife bring them home. Some come home after they are no longer as keen on other women and their physical demands to roost at their home. My advice is that while you can wait for your H, you really need to live happily and meaningfully for yourself and your loved ones (family and daughter) so that the life that YOUR PARENTS nurtured is lived well. WHen your H sees that you are positive and radiant and full of life and energy, he may yet come back. There are no guarantees when and if at all, but by living a renewed life, you will benefit so much from that.<P>QUOTE:<BR>and he is so long in that affair so I can't see the hope for me that he would be back : old, not so attractive, too much educated and obviously not enough good and gentle and nice in every sence (especially sex) for him. <P>1. The most useful thing in life, apart from having God as a personal saviour, is a great education. No one can be too educated. Too bad if a man thinks that you are. I would see education and the ability to forge an independent life as a positive attribute in bringing up children properly should a man leave because of divorce or premature death.<P>2. To a lot of men, it doesn't matter how a woman looks in bed, they can still have a physical relationship as long as the woman is willing and enthusiastic. (One of the many reasons I couldn't take the A was because I was a fashion model who graced magazine covers and TVCs, and have a postgrd degree and am a decent, fun, witty, happy, joyful and generous person). My WS's affair was with a treacherous witch who eventually knived him in public and was put in prison. The witch also had my father sent to hospital and he passed away from complications of tightened chest pains, etc. We were extorted a lot of money because my WS has some status, etc.<P>I was so lost and I kept thinking of reasons as to why he REJECTED me - was I too highly educated, 'well known', 'kind', 'forgiving', 'nice', 'doormat', 'attractive', 'glamourous', etc.? You see an AFFAIR makes no sense and we DRIVE OURSELVES CRAZY clutching at everything that can be wrong about us. Please do not beat yourself over this. If you feel old, there will always be younger persons than the OW, etc.. <P>If you feel that you can take better care of yourself, then by all means look after yourself and work hard at that. Men stray for sometimes the stupidiest reasons for a cheap thrill. You lived a honourable life and that is more than a lot. Now live a strong, fulfilling life because of your enviable and god-given talents. Make it work and make it count.<P>Don't give the unfaithful ones so much power to ruin your daughters' and your lives. Remember how you would advice a loved one in such a situation. The sun will shine again. THere is a rainbow after the rain. WHen life gives you lemons, make lemonade out of them. These are wise sayings to help you cope with life's troubles and problems. You do have a lot going for you in other areas of life, and I believe you do have a lot to offer people.<P><BR>Please see a counsellor, come here to vent (GQ).<P>God bless you<BR>take care<BR>weep

[QUOTE]I don't think he loves me, but at this point he does not want to be with her anymore. <P>Dear Carolyne, how can YOU live with him in suc a situation, have you been reconciliated or this OW is boring for him now? How did you accept this new child you know that exist?<BR>I think you have much more curriage than me. I think I am too panic: we are really separated only for 4 months that's probably not enough time for them to see how convinient life looks like? Everyday life not only "bed".<P>I would continue to be friendly to him, but I do not think I would allow him to take younger D to your family house if the OW is going to be there. Your YD does not need to be around this woman. <BR>But if I do that my D will not see his adored father? I am in grat dilema what to do ? For the moment I decidec to wait for his move, because till now every time she called him and asked him to take her during the weekend.<P>And yes, you can go on and have a great life. If your H comes to senses he will be there with you. But do not worry about it. Be open if he wants to reconcile, but do not let this ruin your life. <P>For now I cant see a possibility for great life only for lonelyness, and I am aware that I am not attractive for himm till I have a sad face all the time (in spite of the fact that we are seeing each other very rare, my choice is to get out of the home when he picks our D.<P>Thank you for the support<P>

[<P>Thank you Meg for the support, you are right in all the things but it's so hard to see him enjoying the life when youtr life is broken into 1000 pieces. I know you are right but one year is so long that it seems to me like a 1000 years, you can imagine.<BR>The only way is to share my sadness with someone like you who can understand me.<BR>Thank you, I would like to be in touch with you and the others who wrote to me. I'll let you know how did the weekend pass.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by noodles:<BR><B>I think it is very possible that you H will come back. I was separted with my H for 2 years, and we are back togeather<P>Noodless you gave me more hope then everyone else here,please I am realy courious. Were you separated because of OW? How old are you? How long did the relationship last? Please if I am not too indiscrete can you describe me more details? Have you children?<BR>One more question can you explain me smply what did you mean with a sentence:<P>I will quote a very wise friend of mine (catnip)<BR> -"So much of it is attitude, Noodles, if not nearly all. Some even say that one can almost 'heal thyself' with attitude and changing their overall take on life." <P>I am not so good in English so I didn't catch a point.<P>I came here because I know I am not alone as I feel sometimes (in fact all the time) because I am become boring to all my friends: you are not the first woman who in abandoned , so what? Why are you making so many problems about that?<BR>I know there are many wise people on here who can help me pass through this,in fact who had passed all that and that's why they can understand so I would hang there till here exist someone who has patiente for my selfcompassion. <BR>I hope I'll come out of this soon because it becomes more and more difficult for me and the others especially kids - one year is so long. Thanks .Please, I'd like to stay in touch.<P>noodles</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

betrayed and desperate<P>I am so glad I gave you hope. I feel as though if my marriage can make it, any marriage can, We have had so many set backs, but still work and try to stay together, so I feel there is always hope. I will give you a few more details. My H has had numerous Affairs. There are many reasons why he left the house, one of the main ones was, he had an affair, for a year, with my cousin, while she was living in my home. So, to make it short, they made love in my bed, kissed and hug, when I was gone and wasn't looking. The second was he was a very abusive man. While he was out of the house, he ran around and slept with anyone and anything. (Which he also did, when we were married, so not much of a big change, just didn't have me nagging him anymore.) While he was out of the home, he came in contact with the last OW, he lived with her for about, 3 or 4 mths. My children, ages 4,7,8 ( we recently had a new baby who is 6 months old) went to their home on the weekends, like they too were one big happy family, without me, she was taking my place. I went on a downward spiral, I drank a lot. And I often felt like ending my life, but I was lucky, I had my sister, there to pick me up and dust me off, each time I fell. I thank God for her everyday. I too went through the feelings you are feeling of uglyness, and that I was not good enough for him, that I did something wrong when it came to sex, for I too didn't like sex and didn't do it every often. He didn't make me feel pretty or wanted or special. My H affair resulted in another child with the Other women. Her baby is just two weeks younger than mine. I have been with my H going on 11 years, I am 28 and he is 30, I feel as though, I have been to h*** and back. But there is a light at the end of the tunnel. The first thing I did that set everything on track was I started taking care of myself, and recognizing that this was HIS problem, not mine, I mean I loved him, but this behavior was not my fault. The main thing that made him see that I was worth coming back to, was that I began to feel that I was worth it. That is what I ment with that quote. If you pretend believe that you are special and attractive and fun to be around, pretty soon you will be. When you feel sad, act happy, pretty soon it will become a habit, only takes 21 days to form a habit, and habits can be a life long addiction. And this is a good one. I too had friends that didn't want to be around me, they got sick of me being so sad and depressed, and said the very same things your friends said to you. So I know where you are coming from there. I will be here if you need to talk, you can email me at (anyone can)<P> noodles_inmybrain@hotmail.com <P>Hope to hear from you keep your head up when you walk into a room.<P>Noodles<BR><p>[This message has been edited by noodles (edited November 08, 2000).]

Hi again!<P>It's good, you are posting.<BR>How are you? I hope you are feeling a little better.<P>I know these things I said to you that you should be doing is hard. Believe me, my H's A(including EA) started around June 99. LIke you I became suicidal, I even prepared for hanging myself. But then I had small things I enjoyed.. like listening to music, going to concerts, name a few. And these things made me happy. I started to do more stuff and I had more time being happy. Someone said it takes 21 days to get it to be a habit. Now I'm happy all the time. Even if not great things happen I tend to find something (small) to be happy. Of course I have ups and down but I'm doing much better. 6 months ago I was thinking of killing myself. So I hope this will let you have a hope. Things will get better!<P>I know very well it's hard, most of us do here. But you can make it through it, and only you have a control over yourself.<P>Please keep posting, we all care about you.<BR>When you feel down, write. When you are happy, write. We are all here to listen.<P>Take care,<BR>Many hugs,<P>Meg

Dear cleo,<BR>don't be worried, for the moment I don't intend to do a sucide. That was in the July when he forced me and my YD to leave the house and move to that new appartment. I can't say that from time to time I don't think about a new attempt but truly it is not serious thinking. I am aware that my YD needs me and even the OD will see one day that I AM her mother and that i love her even than when I loose control (fortunately it is now once in 2-3 weeks. Is it too much also?). I live in a hope when I make a better relationship with both daughters he will also see that he made a mistake and will try to reconcile. That's the fact what dr Hurley is also trying to convince me.<BR>I am only disapointed that I can't forget him and the thoughts of his coming back. One whole year has passed and he is not making not a little step from her towards me. That kills. Do you agree? Have you some other idea?<BR>Hope to hear from you<BR>Betrayed and D<P><BR>Dear weep<P>thank you for your patience to write such a long and warm and encouraging letter.<BR>Yes, you are right in many things. We had not communicated for real last few years like I said we had been occupated with careers and so we have found lost. When we started to talk it was too late. But all my hopes are that he would give us a second chance to correct the wrong moves we did one another and START A NEW (not continue)life together, the whole family.<BR>I think from time to time about a suicide but I never repeated that attempt and I hope I never would. It was a terrible expirience for my kids and it only pushed him strongly into her arms.<BR>Like in your case he was talking to some people how I love him much than her, how I am a better person in every way but..... excep she is 10 years younger and prettier, she is funny has no worries about house, garden, school, cooking... so she can "give him entire herself" That was the biggest of my mistakes he said and I accepted (what was my mistake-if I was all like that , hewouldn't earn (make) a company nor built a house, but we would have a great marriage.<BR>We both understood every mistake but I WANT TO START AGAIN AND CORRECT and he has no such a wish.<BR>But I love him so much so i wait still for him and try to be like you described (not so succesfully till now, but I go slowly forward<BR>Thanks weep<P>betrayed and d