I recieved my book surviving an affair. I was reading it fine until I got to the page about completely ending an affair. It states that phone number, work etc..should be changed. Right now financially we can't afford him changing jobs there are no other offices either. But his cell phone number can change in my eyes, especially since the OW has it. He disagreed, said he is not running away from anything, she know if she calls him she will get rejected, so he is convinced she will not call. Besides he just got 500 business cards made with his cell phone number. I am upset, knowing she has 24hr access to him makes me mad..He says he has caller ID and if it's her she have to leave a message he will not talk to her and if he does by mistake she will not like it, she will be rejected. How am I going to trust this, this is going to prolong my trust. How do I work at this, any ideas? I am so upset I can't eat, probably will not sleep. It's only been three weeks since I found this out, and the possiblility that he has OC with this OW, but he says possibility not because she was seeing other men, but he did have unprotected sex. I am just so psst and upset, I could scream. Well I am going to continue to read my book and hopefully chill. If you guys have any ideas to overcome the phone issue, please help....<BR>

He disagreed, said he is not running away from anything, she know if she calls him she will get rejected, so he is convinced she will not call. Besides he just got 500 business cards made with his cell phone number.<P>You know I hadn't even thought about asking my husband to change his number.<BR>I suppose I know that even if he did there is always email....Even without all of that there is simply HIS choice to contact her if he really wanted to.<BR>I know in my heart he won't.Or if he did it would be to tell her that I have asked that there should be no further contact.<BR>Just remember...you cannot control other people..the choices they make are THEIRS.<BR>Try to focus on what YOU can do to make the relationship better>by doing this you can in a way, influence their choices.<P>What your husband is saying DOES make sense in a logical way especially about the business cards etc.<BR>Doesn't their logical thought processes just drive you mad though ! <BR>Chin up and don't torture yourself...you don't deserve it.

I tend do disagree here, If your H to be, has not given out 500 business cards, he loses no potential business by changing his number. The printing cost for business cards is relatively inexpensive, and I would think well worth the investment in trust. What you have to do is explain your feelings and the need for security with out becoming angry. I firmly believe that ALL contact must be broken, if they have to communicate over the possibility of the OC it should be done through a 3rd party. From reading prior posts he has a lawyer for this already, but anyone you can both trust would work just fine.<P>Dessert, you should think about asking for these same things, including e-mail – you should have access to all his passwords, phone records, financial records etc. Equally he should have the same access to yours. I am in no way endorsing any thing that will create a LB. But there should be no secrets. You should be able to freely see these things. If not I would be cautious that the A may still be going on. Before the A I never saw phone records, financials, etc. Now I make every effort too. Am I checking up? Certainly I am. Harley makes some good points in his book. If you make it difficult to live a secret life, a secret life can only be accomplished through purposeful deceit. This causes guilt and adds stress to the A, suddenly it’s not so wonderful. <P>One last thought, Try to finish the book before you start putting into practice what you have learned in today’s reading session. In my experience jumping on the issue that was read today may affect tomorrow’s lesson. Try to get he whole picture before acting. That is except making deposits, I don’t think that will ever hurt the cause.<BR>

Oswald,<P>Based on what you are saying, a couple should have an open book relationship, especially after the A?<P>If so, thanks ... now you got me worried. <P>My W changed her email password after I broke into her personal log (long story). She claims to have no privacy ... feels smothered. Said that she will never write any feelings down again since they could be seen by someone, namely me.<P>But even if she did open her email account to me, there is ways to get others. Still ways to contact him or someone else with phone cards. <P>I may be setting myself up but I am putting some faith in her that she won't do those things.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Respect2u2 (edited November 15, 2000).]

Oswald.....It is food for thought what you have said...I suppose I feel that if I ask my H to see what is in his email box then it is almost an admission that I do not trust him...Also because his cell phone is paid for by the company he works for none of the bills from that come to the house.<BR>I too don't really want him to see for example the things I am posting here because I know some of it, like the anger serves no purpose for him to read.<BR>But still....you have got me thinking..

Dessert, you should think about asking for these same things, including e-mail – you should have access to all his passwords, phone records, financial records etc. Equally he should have the same access to yours. I am in no way endorsing any thing that will create a LB<P>I am not familiar with all the terms used here yet. What's an LB ?<P>Oswald....Can you suggest how I can approach my husband with this...without sounding extremely insecure and suspicious?<P>You really HAVE got me thinking now.<BR>See..all these years in a way I have ALLOWED him to have these freedoms ( that I don't have.) He has been away numerous times overnight and for longer periods on business trips.<BR>He has a position with a major internet company which requires him to have a secure ID "thing"...a little gadget that gives out random numbers when you log on. Its a complicated process having access to his email accounts but as his wife should I have this access regardless?<BR>The phone, as I explained is a company paid one...Surely though all the employees are not lumped into one bill...There must be separate accounts for each employee which SURELY if he wanted to he could have access to?<BR>If he asked for that access and wanted to bring those bills home I am wondering what reason he would give them at work?<BR>(I am predicting he will ask this question)<BR>I feel a little angry actually at the moment...thinking how my life has been an open book to him.<BR>In a lot of ways I have allowed that to happen, especially by not learning to drive and not having any "life" of my own besides here in the home.<BR>What right does HE have then to say I never trusted him when I never kicked up a stink about him having these areas in his life that I didn't have access to?<BR>To be honest...I never thought about it..(Well, perhaps regarding the computer I did...)<BR>And it makes me wonder...did he somehow manipulate things so he COULD have these areas in his life where I did not have access...or was it all just coincidence?<BR>

Well, I don’t want to cause any undue stress because these are my opinions, but yes I am of the opinion that your relationship should be an open book. Living a separate secret life is a set up for the possibility for future problems on either side. Resect, I wouldn’t go home and demand these things, but over the coarse of time you should be able talk about them with the W and agree that it is in the best interest of the M. She should have access to your life in the same manor. <P>My wife does not come here to the MB site, that I am aware of. However, she knows I do. I have given her the web address, told her my logon name, and even detailed how she can do a search and see everything that I have written. I am sure the day will come when her curiosity gets the best of her and she will visit. Some of what I have written may not sit well with her, but I have explained that I come here not to attack her or validate any ill feelings. It is the perfect place for me to gain support, no one knows us, so it can’t come back to bite us. Anonymity is a nice thing. Dessert, I would be willing to bet he could handle reading your anger much better than having you red faced and yelling it at him. <P>What’s wrong with saying - I don’t trust you. You don’t, do you? I don’t even in light of her confession. I stick to plan A as much as possible but if you’re really past getting your spouse to give up the OP completely then it’s time work on things, honesty is important. Had I asked these questions in the past and lived an open book relationship where she could tell me anything and visa versa I would not be here now. I try to know where she is and how to reach her 24/7 and I give her the same respect. We do check up on each other, and yes in the beginning I felt like I was checking up. Now I just look forward to talking to her throughout the day.<P>Take into consideration where I am in this, I’m going on 5 weeks since D-Day, My W confessed the EA/PA to me “ I was completely clueless” which doesn’t say much for my relationship skills. The A had been over for 6 months with no contact and according to her the withdraw was over. She was guilty and wanted a better M and knew she had to get it out.<BR>

Desert give me min or so. I posted this B-4 reading your latest.

Let me start by saying don’t be angry, I seriously doubt he manipulated things to be this way. More than likely it was a natural progression, It was for me. After all until something happens we trust our spouse and as time goes by let ourselves believe that we don’t have anything to worry about.<P>LB stands for Love buster, it’s what we do when we hurt our spouse by arguing, yelling, belittling etc. . It’s a major no no in Harleys Recovery plan. If you have not ordered his books “His needs/Her needs” and “surviving an affair” please do. It’s money well spent. From previous posts you H is also in favor of making a better M. His reading these books will help him understand the need for complete openness and honesty, maybe better than you telling him it should be that way.<P>How do you approach this, with open conversation. First you must try to control your insecurity and suspicion, they can kill you in a discussion and drive you to become angry and have ugly outbursts. In my experience the more often I exploded the less my W wanted to talk. So eventually I had to learn and accept what she was saying whether I liked it or not. If you can calmly explain your insecurities and how his openness would help you, it might sink in. If he refuses don’t freak, just calmly bring it up at a later date, maybe after reading the books. <P>The E-mail might be a tough one given the password changes constantly. But maybe at some point you can get him to agree to an unannounced call where he will give it to you just to make you feel more secure.<P>The phone records, yes I would be willing to say he can get copies. How about this, he is trying to do an informal record system on how much time is spent on the cell on various projects?<P>Again don’t freak if he doesn’t go right along with this, it may seem like an invasion of privacy to him since this was never asked for in the past. But as time goes on and if your both following the MB plan together, he will see the need for it. <BR>

Let me start by saying don’t be angry, I seriously doubt he manipulated things to be this way. More than likely it was a natural progression, It was for me. After all until something happens we trust our spouse and as time goes by let ourselves believe that we don’t have anything to worry about<P>I can't help it Oswald..for the past two weeks he has been throwing it in my face that I pushed him to this because of never trusting him.<BR>Well...HOW can he say that when I allowed him those freedoms??? I never asked before for access to all his passwords on the PC ( even when I found dirty porn pics by accident on the desktop).<BR>I never refused to let him go away on weekends when he was working for bands...I never refused to let him go away on tours...for 5 and 6 weeks at a time !!!<BR>I never refused to let him go to the US....TWICE without me ( the first time I did join him for a week but he spent 3 weeks there alone before I got there)<BR>Yes, I am angry because surely he knew that I was giving him the chance to be trusted...<BR>And what did he ultimately DO with that freedom ?<BR>He abused my trust!<P>I apologise to the original poster...I seem to have butted in on this thread.<P>You say I shouldn't be alarmed if he finds excuses not to give me access to all areas of his life.<BR>Well...I think it would be darn stupid of me to NOT demand it.<BR>You are right...I don't trust him.<BR>He needs to earn my trust now and that will be by starting all over again and by allowing HIS life to be an open book as is mine.<BR>I will try not to "act" angry when I talk to him tonight but inside I am.

Yikes, I seemed to have pushed some buttons. Demands are not good at any point, they drive a wedge between you and you mate. My intent was not to get you upset, just shed some light on how we could all benefit from an open relationship and why it is important. Please get yourself a copy of the book “ Surviving an Affair” and take the time to read it. I know you are upset. You have 10 years of unresolved feelings built up. Try to keep in mind that it took 10 years to get here. It won’t be fixed overnight. Also remember when we are mad we tend to overlook what we have done to contribute to this situation. I believe there is point when anger is necessary and even good in some cases but not when it could jeopardize recovery of the M.

Oswald...please dont feel responsible for my sudden anger...These thoughts would have come to me eventually anyway.<BR>I know you are right in what you are saying.<BR>I am just angry, still...I don't know how long I will be angry for...I hope not too long as I know it is destructive.<BR>I know I helped to contribute to what has happened and it is easy to lose sight of that.<BR>Its just that I suppose I am still getting stuck in the "blame" part of it and I can't help feeling that he is MORE to blame than I am.<BR>He probably doesn't see it that way...but that is how I feel AT THE MOMENT.<BR>The anger HAS to come out...I don't want to do what I did all these years and keep dredging it up but I need to get rid of it somehow now.<BR>I am working hard today to try and get it all out so I wont "attack" him tonight.<BR>I just wrote myself in an email a really full on VENT..It felt good to let it all out even if only to myself.

Whew, glad to here that. I have enough trouble being responsible for my own anger. You will get there. Just learn as much as you can before making any rash decisions. I'll say a prayer, for you to have a good night at home.

Wow..I certainly did not want to effect anyone negatively. I'm sorry!<P>But I will take the advise to completely read the book Surviving an Affair, first. And just to let you know the 500 business card were purchased 3 months ago, so unfortunately they are out.<P>This afternoon he call me and I just asked if the OW was contacting him since the 3week ago revelation. He said No, and assured me I will be the first to know. I asked him to be completely open and honest with me to help me. He agreed. I truly believe he will cooperate and do anything to comfort me and get me out of my rut. He has mention he is worried this is going to just make me go crazy,eat me away at me till I am empty. He begs me to stop thinking of the OW and just worry about us, she is nothing, just try to concentrate on our relationship and make it better/closer. I will try to be more accepting to his trying to make me feel more secured in our relationship.<P>Today I have been thinking of what I did to make him feel or desire to find someone else. Thinking, I can see what I did, cut him off emotionally when it came to itimacy. I did it as a duty not as a pleasure. But I will also say that, because of my pass when I gave of myself completely with my first husband and he still had an affair, he just was a womanizer, no control, no maturity. When I left him my next significant other, I was again was an open book, he did the same. By the time I met my fiancee now, he reap alot of my old bagagge. I did start out as usual, but a bit more aprehensive, not giving all, all at once. Finally I did give my completely. But he too made me feel or got me to think itimacy was a chore. At first I did enjoy it, having fun mutually, but at some point we were only itimate when he desire itimacy. I felt like a puppet, so then I just did my duty when he felt like being itimate with me. <P>Maybe I should have told him then.<P>I know we need to look at our self the betrayed one, but I feel one reaction is from some sort of action that made us react the way we did to make our partner feel or desire someone else to forefill the emotional need. <P>I just want to say it seems alot of the fault is on the betrayed one, the reason why the wayward one went to another person. But I think that's unfair. It always a two way street, I feel outside of him being remorseful, he should too look at what he could have done better. I a bit mad that we always seem at fault of our partners wavering. But I think in a very calm way and nuturing way I will explain my feeling this way to my partner, in a positive way. <P>I think if he feels, outside of remorseful but also make me feel that he is also feeling responsible of his actions towards me, that made me treat him the way I did, take some ownership of the faults in OUR relationship.<P>Does anyone else agree with me? I believe this is good as long as it is presented positively. <P>Give me your thoughts.<P>P.S. Desertrose, you did not take anything away from my original post, you added to it. It let's me see what others are going through and it helps to see other sides, other situation. Thanks

. I'll say a prayer, for you to have a good night at home.<P><BR>Thankyou...I hope tonight/today is a "good" one for you too <BR>

I just want to say it seems alot of the fault is on the betrayed one, the reason why the wayward one went to another person. But I think that's unfair. It always a two way street, I feel outside of him being remorseful, he should too look at what he could have done better. I a bit mad that we always seem at fault of our partners wavering.<P>The bottom line IS....that the cheating spouse COULD have made better choices...but they didn't.<BR>What on earth though can WE, the betrayed, do to change that?<BR>No amount of crying or screaming or shouting can take away the cold hard facts. <BR>What we CAN do though is try and understand WHY they did it. Through understanding comes acceptance ( BTW...did you read the poem I sent in another thread? It really makes sense.)<BR>I think there is a difference between a spouse who no matter how good things are in their marriage STILL feels the need to go out and have affairs...and a spouse who genuinely has felt neglected and shut out and has reacted due to their own insecurities by seeking attention from someone else.<BR>There IS a difference yes?<BR>The type A spouse ( the womaniser or..hmmm what would you call a woman who is like that? Don't want to be sexist here.. ) is the one I don't think you have a hope in Hell of ever trusting...They have SERIOUS emotional problems that no partner can ever fix...or should have to.<P>You know....your story sounds similar to mine...You have been hurt in the past and it sounds to me like you have never let go of that hurt...<BR>Sounds like you have been afraid, just like me, of that intimacy.<BR>When you are afraid of it how can you enjoy it and really WANT it.<P>And as I said in another thread I really DO believe that men need sex to open up emotionally whereas women need the emotional connection in order to feel like having sex <BR>So things just end up getting VERY complicated because of this fact.<BR>The key to fixing that is better communication.<BR>I'll bet that the majority of cases of affairs are caused simply because both partners were not communicating their needs effectively.<BR>So yes....it IS a two way street and each person needs to accept THEIR responsibility in how things ultimately have ended up.<P>I suppose too....Being the one who has had the A, trying to offload the guilt onto the other partner is a totally normal defense reaction.<BR>Think about if you were in HIS shoes...wouldn't you do the same? At least initially anyway...Bearing in mind that you had the A BECAUSE of how rejected you felt in the first place...<BR>Anyway...you can call me "rambling rose" now <BR>Good wishes to you my dear....and try try try to be receptive to how he is acting towards you now...He is showing you how much he cares so you just soak that in and gain strength from it .<BR>

vazquezek,<P>Yes, I agree with you. When my H stopped defending his A because "I made him do it", and stood up and took responsibility for things he did in the relationship, I was much more able to deal with the A. <P>Neither of us ruined this relationship alone, we both made choices along the way that led us to this point, and as long as we both remember that and work towards going down the right path, we'll make it.