I don't even know where to start anymore. I orgnially came to this site back in Oct and posted under Truth or Lies. It was all about my wife'r friendship with OM and if it was right.<P>Fast forward to end of Oct and after a couple of calls saying that my wife is having an affair. She comes clean and tells me she is connect to OM and has an infatuation with him. No wounder after 8 months of 2 to 3 hour calls a day. <P>Counseling since end of June till now. Last night was the night to talk about recovery and how we get there. I list 7 things one being no contact with OM, which I have continued to request to both her and OM. I ask her in the last three weeks (after I confronted OM two weeks ago again) if there had been contact. She says yes phone calls but we are just friends. <P>I lose it right in front of the counseler and tell her that we are never going to recover if she keeps talking to OM. I ask her a couple of other questions about contact with him to see if she is telling the truth (in both cases she lied OM's wife told me they had talked on such and such date).<P>Counseler says she should stop talking to OM I asked her if she respects me she should stop. Tell her she is disrepcting not only me but OM's wife who has asked her a number of times to stop calling hub.<P>She then writes a nice letter about what has happened over the last 7 years of our marriage. How she has been hurt. Says that we never really connected on a deep level, which is a bunch of BS. Says she does not know what to do her heart hurts because she can't feel the way she should about be. Says that she will not do dates and other things till her heart is into it.<P>Says she knows I have changed and feels bad that she can't treat me the right way. Says I am a friend and loves me. But does not feel the way she should. I have hurt her and does not know if she can get it back.<P>I and counseler have told her that the only way to recover the marriage is to stop with OM. Does not want to listen since she is now only friends with him. <P>What a mess! I have been in Plan A since early this spring and it has not helped one bit. Counseler has asked to see us each seperatly next time. I really wounder if she knows what the hell she is doing. We have no plan to recover and seem to be just going aimlessly with no direction.<P>I read about SHA, Keystone, Wex and others. None of us seem to have the answer. I know my wife is just as frustrated and hurt. She just does not know how to overcome all of this. We really got into it right in front of the counseler yelling and all. Big time LB. But I can not handle all the deciet that is going on.<P>Thanks for letting me vent. I have copied some of the stuff from this site and she is starting to read it. Let's see if that helps.

Zip,<P>You know the story...<BR>"Lines" in a secret second life... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"Stay out of my private life", "I'm disappointed you don't trust me", "I can't remember", <B>"We're just friends"</B>, and "I just need some time away to think things through" (pages 40-44 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...and... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to the betrayed spouse. (page 55 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...and... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Without total separation, marital recovery is almost impossible. (page 56 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...I know you know it... your counselor knows it...<P>but... your W doesn't.<P>If your W won't read it(what you pull off from here) don't be too surprised. <P>If you think it's time for <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>... ask around the forum... many... many are heading that way now or in the next few months... yours truly included.<P>Remember... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> is for you to save the love you have for your W... to not let your <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A> get depleated... to let OP provide for <B>all</B> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>... <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>(#3.) The (betrayed) spouse needs to know that he/she had done his/her best to save their marriage. (page 76 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...and...finally...<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>(#4.) If the (betrayed) spouse follows the plans (A & <B>B</B>), and they(the plans) fail, the (betrayed) spouse would no longer have any feelings of love for the wayward spouse. (page 76 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Prayers coming your way...<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> only if you have to!<P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...

Zip:<P>Plan A has been successful for you, just not the way you had hoped...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Says she knows I have changed and feels bad that she can't treat me the right way. Says I am a friend and loves me. But does not feel the way she should. I have hurt her and does not know if she can get it back.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>She realizes that you've changed. And she loves you (at least as a 'friend'). You're dealing with someone who is addicted to her OM. She's incapable of making hard decisions on her own.<P>When YOU are ready (and I think you're close), it's Plan B time. A separation will give some reality to her situation. She's not going to like you for doing it, but if you explain your reasons clearly (in the Plan B letter) and minimize any lovebusting, you'll be in good shape.

We have actually talked about a seperation. She asked if I thought that we need sometime apart. I think her feeling is that we do. I have not come to that conculsion and am not really willing to leave our house. I travel alot so I can make myself pertty scarce.<P>I know she is really hurting and has no idea what to do. I don't know if others on this forum feel the same. But I am so ashamed that I have not been a better person to my wife. That in someways I have contributed to all the problems we have. I have told her this and she says she knows that I am sorry. She is not holding a grudge etc.<P>Not a great place to be. Not only do you have to deal with someone elses feelings for OM. But you also have to deal with your pain of knowing what you have done to get us here.<P>I am not sure that Plan B is there yet. I have to do things to get myself ready for that.<P>

Zip --<P>Sorry to hear that things aren't going as smoothly as they once set out to be in rebuilding. <P>I've been trying to stay away from the site lately since I seem to be obsessing about everything. And, work has been suffering. So I'm a little out of "the loop" as far as what's been happening.<P>I still cannot believe how similar our situations are. Lately:<P>1. Counseling sessions with outright screaming at each other. We never used to fight, or even as much as raise a voice. Lately, despite 15 years of marriage, it's all we do when we talk regarding our marriage.<BR>2. Counselor doesn't seem to gave any plan for recovery. I'm getting motivated toward finding another person. My wife even gets agitated if I am much as mention the need to schedule for another appointment.<BR>3. W has not broken contact with OM, his W (the "best friend") and continues to maintain the "we're only friends" position. She outright refutes anything other than a friendship despite proof to the contrary. Again, I gave her an opportunity to address what I found, and she gave no response. Maintained that "just friend" b.s..<BR>4. W doesn't want any contact - kissing, hugging, sex, etc. "Not ready" for that anymore -- it's been missing for so long anyway. Says she will not welcome that until she's ready -- whenever that is...<BR>5. Claims to not be sure if she can ever forgive me for "hurting her" with the confrontation of the OM, what it did to her friendships, etc. Knows she doesn't trust me (hey, I didn't have the EA!), and knows that I don't fully trust her.<BR>6. I gave her a copy of Harley's "SAA". Her reaction was "why this book?". Since she didn't have an affair, what does this say? What does this suggest? Is this what I think? Whay couldn't I have found some other book? I told her that I had other books from Harley, too. But, I felt that this book offered suggestions and hope in a preventative manner. No dice! She resents it. I've told her about the website, but not given her the other books.<BR>7. Despite my acceptance and admitting that I was at fault for the distancing of our relationship, she continues to beat me over the head. She wants to accept NO responsibility for anything. She refuses to change anything she's doing, and see's no problems with her other sex friendships, including that with OM.<P>Sorry to rant, but I'm at the point of chucking Plan A, bypassing Plan B, and moving out. I just don't see ANY willingness to try to repair the marriage. She doesn't feel a need to give me feedback on how I'm doing in changing (negative or positive) and resents that fact that I believe she must change her dealings with the OM and other sex friends.<P>Zip, I don't want to drag you down, but we're both going thru this cycle now. Maybe you've come up from the valley. maybe something that I'm saying will jar something you're going through to help correct the path.<P>I'm praying for you, me and others on this site. Try to stay positive -- I'm having a time trying myself -- and try to hold your head up. WE BOTH KNOW THAT WE'RE TRYING. IF THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH, THAN SO BE IT.<P>-- keystone

Sorry for the negative vibes. I'm taking a break from the site for a while.<P>Good luck to all, chin up, and remember to protect your own health and well being... It's a rough ride!<P>--keystone

Keystone,<P>Man I feel your pain. I do think my wife might be trying a little more then your's in that she is still willing to go to couseling. Who knows maybe it is just to make me happy. In fact we are getting nothing from the joint sessions. I think you and I both know why.<P>In as much she is not willing to really see what is happening. She did read a couple of articles from this site and another one.<P>Check out <A HREF="http://www.weiner-davis.com." TARGET=_blank>www.weiner-davis.com.</A> I can't remember if I gave you that site in the past. There are two ladies over there by the name of Helen and Sue that have gone through EA's. Both of them have some great advice into the head of your wife. <P>I like you don't know how long something like this can go on. The one lady over there told me that if she is unwilling to give up her friend that is a sign right there. Meaning that it is very clear that there is something more given her hesitance to break it off.<P>This process they say is almost like dealing with an alcoholic. How many times can you confront them to have them say it's only one drink and I can handle it etc. This is the exact samething. Sue talks about the process of detaching since her hub was an alcoholic.<P>Anyway check the stuff out. It helps me a little as does this site. There is a ton of great advice and people that really care about saving their marriage. <P>Currious if people on this site during this process have ever found themself attracted to another person during this whole process. We are all so starved for positive affection that a crumb from anyone is welcome. I have not at all but you can sure see how nice things that people do during this process mean so much. From both genders.

Update, today OM's wife called my wife to tell my wife that she was sorry for blaming all her marriage problems on my wife's friendship with her hub. If any of that makes sense.<P>She called me prior to making the call to tell me that she was going to do this. I suggested aganist it given that I looked at this as condoning their continued contact.<P>I discussed this with my wife after the call. She said that it was nice for her to call but again our problems have nothing to with them. Then she proceeded to tell me that her feelings for me have not been there for the last two years. She loves me but more like a brother and not with the passion she should.<P>She continued to say that I am a nice guy and that she very much apprecaites the changes in me. Then said that her feelings or lack there of can't go on forever. Last week she read some articles that I had given her from this site. She said they where interesting but did not pertain to her and she was not a case study.<P>All this on Sunday. Happy Sunday.<BR>

Zip --<P>Sorry to leave you hanging on such a downer. Thanks for putting a more positive "spin" on it. You had given me the other site in the past, but I haven't really had the time to check it out. I'll try over the next day or so.<P>How ironic you W's reaction is to the MB articles. I gave my wife "SAA" by Harley -- and she resented the fact that I would even suggest such a book. She felt other books might pertain more closely. But, above all, she resented the fact that I would even suggest an affair. Again, I explained the concept of an EA, as well as pointed out that she might look at the book as a preventative idea, not a hyper-critical one.<P>-- keystone

Zip,<P>I realize from personal experience that your wife has to break off all contact with OM in order to move on from this incident. Sounds like she's manipulated herself into believeing that all is roses and is saying, Can't we all just get along?! Stick by her and support her, and someday soon she will be strong enough to sever this man from her life so that the two of you can get on with yours. Good luck, best of wishes and hope, please keep posting!<P>Khyra

Thanks to both of you for posting. The feedback from everyone is great. Not much new to report other then things are her end are really slowing down. Translation is much less physical contact with me and no more I love yous after we talk. We have one confussed young lady.<P>Funny because I think she is now the one pursuing the OM and maybe pissed that he is really not paying attention to her. Don't know but just a thought. I think once a married man realizes what he has to lose and it is out in the open he may back off a bit.<P>I think in someways you are right is that sooner or later she will wake up. Right now it is too much of a struggle. I think this thing with the OM's wife calling her and telling her that she does not blame her for the mess in her marriage has really thrown her for a loop.<P>The guilt now is big with my wife. Maybe she is beginning to realize what a mess she has created. Who knows. I guess if you can try and nice you way out of this. I guess I have it better them some folks in that we still live together and she is realitivly nice. Gotta run<BR>