We have been married 9 years. I had alway thought that we had a solid relationship based on trust, honestly and openness.<P>Then, a couple months ago, I discovered a letter to an unknown O.M. and confronted her about it. I could not figure out who she could be referring to, but there were references to wanting a divorce along with sexual desires. I knew it was not for me. She explained this off by stating that she writes (angry) letters to herself to vent. Later that day, I was searching for that letter and uncovered a bundle of letters a "friend" had given her and I then suspected him. She had been supportive while this man was in jail and said he was her best friend. They could talk about anything. I said nothing of the letters and a few days later, a new one appeared, referring to "almost getting caught" so I knew. The day he was released, they met secretly and she had taken lingerie with her. I knew by the car's mileage that she hadn't gone to where she said she was. She admitted to meeting with him but said they only "talked" and that she told him she was married etc. I figured it was over. <P>In the past month, I have discovered lies, gifts, a phone card, and a mysterious key. She has done her very best to smooth things over with me, but I have this nagging feeling they are somehow meeting. There are unexplained absences, strange calls and nervous behavior at times. She works at 3 different jobs and at times feel that is a cover too. How could she possibly have time to have an affair? I am convinced two people can find the time if they are determined enough! I really want to believe her but she's making it difficult. The fact that she refuses to discuss anything concerning this person, or reveal much of her feelings at all is telling, along with a lack of affection. I have been doing my best to work on Plan A but I'm getting worn out! Found a charm with his initial on it today and she has been using this phone card (never had one before). To make matters worse, I feel like I'm fighting a ghost! No known adddress, no home phone, only a pre-paid cell number. When I first found out, I read this web site and followed their suggestions. I really would have liked to have prevented the EA from going any farther. For both our benefits. I love her deeply and can understand the guilt a person must feel.<P>Here's my question; I have only small tidbits of real evidence so far. Do I follow her or otherwise try to catch them? It's tempting. I gave her a letter this morning saying I know something is going on and that she 1) has to agree never to have contact with this person, 2) to be honest and to go back over the events of the past months, and 3) to make a decision. It sounds dangerously close to an ultimatum or Plan B. I don't want to loose her and feel I may have made a big mistake already. It wasn't an angry letter and at least she knows where I stand on the subject. She will not admit to any wrong-doing whatsoever and makes me feel like I am the one causing the friction in our marriage with the accusations. It is making me insecure and crazy. What to do?<BR>M <p>[This message has been edited by Ifeelstupid (edited December 22, 2000).]

Ifeelstupid,<P>I really don't like your user name. You are not the one that is stupid here. I have another candidate for you. <P>You can do two things. One is read His Needs Her Needs and see if there are needs that you are not meeting. If she will, have her read it as well. However, if she is having an affair, then she may use it to justify the affair. <P>You can hire a PI to find out who and where they are meeting. It is expensive but it may at least put an end to the deceit. <P>However, you KNOW and I KNOW she is having an affair. There would be no need for secrets or phone cards or anything else if this wasn't true.<P>So if you have plan A'd and you are running out of gas, then go for a Plan B. This will hopefully retain the love you have for her while she is having the affair. Plan B is not to get them out of the affair so much as to protect you and give them a glimpse of life without you.<P>I hope that under Plan A you have been working on yourself and you are happy with the changes you have made.<P>Sorry for no more advice but time is short and I don't know enough. However, once Christmas is over you will get many more responses.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

I'd bet bigs bucks she's cheating. I know because my W has been cheating and they are doing the same thing. Pay phones, calling cards and all when she has a cell phone that NEVER gets used. Erasing all the caller ID's before I return from a business trip (started happening 3 months ago) Getting very dressed up to go "shopping". There are more but you get the picture. She admitted the affair, says it's over. But, I know she still calls him and is planning on getting together with him when I leave on my next business trip. I've hired a PI to follow the OM and I'm using other methods to determine the current state of the affair. <P>I still love her and I'm working on plan A (for the time being). I'm making several deposits in her love bank--and it seems to be having an effect. But her deceit is starting to drain my love bank and I'm approaching a desire for divorce. We are also seeing a marital counselor and each of us an individual counselor. She has admitted to her girlfriend that she knows the affair is wrong and has no future with the OM, but she continues to see him. I know his identity and am debating whether I turn him in to his profession, he will lose his license. <P>So I guess my advice is trust with open eyes. I bet your W is having an affair, as long as it continues you lose ground with her. But I also know both of the adulterers can be very convincing liars. If I didn't have other HARD evidence of the affair I would have believed them as they tried to convince me they weren't the ones having the affair. They still don't know how much I know. I'm still collecting evidence against him.<P>But you have to be careful how you use the information you collect, it will be a major LB if she discovers it.<P>Good luck, and continue to talk to people about it, that seems to have helped me...<p>[This message has been edited by noor (edited December 26, 2000).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ifeelstupid:<BR><B>The day he was released, they met secretly and she had taken lingerie with her.</B><P>Okay, let's assume she is having an affair, or at least strayed there for awhile. I think that is a safe assumption.<P>Harley will say that whether she did, is, or isn't doesn't REALLY matter....what matters is the relationship between the two of you. Fix that and you fix the other problems. So playing "gotcha" may confirm your worst fears, but the only way to rebuild your marriage is to....rebuild your marriage. Plan A, fulfill her needs, work on lovebusting. Have you had her fill out an EN and a LB questionaire? Any insight from the letters as to what ENs the OM may fulfill that you don't?<P>As to Plan B....I don't know, it depends on your stamina. Living with a cheating spouse is something that some people can take for awhile and others can't. If you're at the end of your rope, then an ultimatum may be called for. But you have to live with the consequences of forcing a decision before you have got her attention with a steady pattern of targetted Plan A behavior.<P>I would HIGHLY recommend counseling with Steve Harley...it will be the best $95 you ever spent. Do it alone by phone, and get a strategy in place. He was enormously helpful to my situation, which didn't include any affairs, but that is his area of expertise.<P>I hope 2001 brings you peace and happiness,<P>Mike <P><BR> <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mike C2 (edited December 26, 2000).]

You're NOT stupid. I think she's got another relationship going. You are doing what any caring, trusting spouse would do, say innocent until proven guilty. <P>So now what? Move on to the next step. Good luck.

Thank you for your support. I feel we had a breakthru last night. For the past 3 months, my W. has denied each and every accusation I have given her. I realize that this can be a major LB but I couldn't stand the lies. She finally admitted that she has been torn between me and the O.M. and I was right about who it is. I tried my best to keep the tone of our conversation as safe as possible.<BR>She said she wishes that I was a jerk - it would be easier for her to "decide". She has maintained that it hasn't been a PA, but that doesn't matter at this point. I think that now that we are on a real level, the withdrawl and healing can begin. I don't think she's completely made up her mind yet, but I'm encouraged so far.<P>This unhappiness and frustration has gone back a year she thought. I know I had been preoccupied for most of 2000 with a busy job, and being passed over for promotion. It seems like (bad) timing has alot to do with how the A. can happen.<P>I am prepared for much work ahead.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ifeelstupid:<BR><B>Thank you for your support. I feel we had a breakthru last night.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, you have about the best day after D-day attitude I've ever seen in a betrayed spouse! <P>If you have $95 to your name, or can beg, borrow or steal it, get on the phone with Steve Harley and get some quick counseling. It will be the best money you ever spent.<P>Good luck,<P>Mike<BR>

Go to Radio Shack and purchase a phone tape (approximately cost $30) and connect to a cassette recorder in an inconspicous place. Buy some 120 minute tapes and I promise you that you will find out much more than you ever really wanted to. You will gain the evidence you need, but you can never reveal that it is in place. Otherwise, it is a real lovebuster and you will never be trusted again. Also, if you plan to work it out, you will want some insurance in the future to assure that she is completely honest with you. Therefore the tap will be useful in the future. Reveal to no one that you are using it because it will get back to her.<P>Let me know your results. Be prepared...but she is in the fog...and doesn't rationally know what she is doing.<BR>

Still working on 100% Plan A here. We had a set back this past Friday...found our car in front of what turned out to be his house. When my W. emerged from the house (I waited) she said that she did "what I told her to do" (regarding no contact). She had assured me she hadn't had any contact with him since the night she opened up regarding her feelings for him - 1 1/2 weeks ago. Our most recent phone bill reveals daily calls to his cell phone. She didn't even bother to use her phone card to hide them. It is very difficult to believe much of what she tells me, but maybe she does want to break it off with the OM. On Saturday, she asked if we could spend the night in a motel to get away. I took her up on that offer. Although I had hoped she would open up some more, we really had a nice, relaxing weedend (I guess I needed a break from our troubles too). She has honestly seemed better towards me so far. I don't know if I'm being naive here or not, but I will need to try and start trusting her again at some point. Advice here at MB seems to indicate that the WS will need to agree to a plan (of no contact) to really start rebuilding trust. I am still waiting for that.

IFeelStupid,<P>You cannot start trusting her until she starts acting in a trustworthy manner. It doesn't sound as if she is. With the comments about no contact and then the phone bill. I was unclear about finding her car in front of his house.<P>Was this before the breakthrough? After the breakthrough? If so what was her explanation for this.<P>You have a ways to go but you can get there.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

JL:<BR>Some more background...I consider D-Day to have been Oct. 22, 2000, the day I discovered the letter to the OM. She works with jail inmates and he had been in since July. When he became eligible for work release in Sept., she started to spend his dinner break with him. I wasn't crazy about the idea but I trusted her completely. She had never shown me any reason not to. This became a nightly ritual and he began asking her to run errands for him. Again, I wasn't crazy about this but let it continue. The red flag really wasn't raised until she went to a neighboring town to pick out glasses with him. She was not authorized to take him and made a switch with the person who was. This was odd. <P>At this point, I told him myself that he relied on her too much and that I wasn't ok with it. A couple weeks later I found this letter from my W. and later that day a whole stack from him (daily contact). I made the mistake of confronting her only with knowledge he had feelings for her, being afraid they would just be more careful. That is exactly what happened. A few weeks after that I finally told her that I had found all of his letters. By this time, she was acting very differently towards me, and our sex life took a huge nosedive. He was released from jail on Nov. 30, and I was nervous about their relationship becoming a PA. She admitted to seeing him that night, when confronted.<P>She would never admit to anything else - I began to become a detective by this time. This continued until Jan. 16 when she confessed to having feelings for him. I gave her some space for a few days, then wrote her a letter explaining what my needs are and how I would ask that she never have contact with him (I had proof she still had been). Then this past Friday, I was driving through a neighboring town (work-related) and noticed her car in front of a strange house. Up until this point, I didn't know where he lived but figured it was here because she kept going up there "to see her sister".<P>I stopped and waited a 1/2 hour until she came out and she explained that she had talked to him about not "bothering" her any more, etc. The only thing I gained was knowing where her lived and what he drove. Had he not lived right off the highway, I wouldn't have known. Not sure that matters. I did know that, unless caught, she would probably never volunteer any more info. In the past week I also went through our phone bill and again, daily contact. I don't have much since last Friday although some gifts appeared yesterday (for herself - but she didn-t have any money - hmmm). <P>Sorry that this got long. This has been such an up/down ride. This past week, she seems to be more like her self and the errands and unaccounted for time have ceased. She still will not open up about what has happened. This is where I am now. Been sticking with Plan A and really have working on myself. The thought of a Plan B isn't far away if she continues contact. I will give it more time. I wish she would be open to getting help. We talk about anything and everything EXCEPT for her feelings and US. She had been married before, and I'm pretty sure she's afraid things will get thrown in her face if she opens up. She ought to know me better than that! I'm hanging in there, thanks.<P>MM/IFS