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kevan Offline OP
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We have been married for twenty-two years. This is a lengthy story but I would rather get the story straight and leave nothing out. My wife had an affair with a man she worked with last year, she says its all over now but is still friends with him, which is upsetting me incredibly. Am I wrong? This all started early last year, I had to go away on work for a few weeks unexpectedly, something that was completely beyond my control. I missed her birthday while I was away, but did bring her home a lovely gift and phoned her every day. While I was away I kept on telling her to go out now and again with some of her girlfriends which she did occasionally. It so happened that I was delayed in coming home for an additional week also completely beyond my control. The plane arrived in late, my luggage got lost and I was pretty flustered. Over the weekend my wife told me she was going out with one of her girlfriends on the Monday night straight after work and she would be home later. This did not worry me at all. When she got home that Monday night she seduced me like never before and we made passionate love like we had never had in many years, but I just felt something was not right. The next morning I checked the trunk of the car and found a bag containing her best sexy lingerie. I approached her with it and she got very upset and apologetic and promised me nothing happened and eventually told me who it was, this guy she was working with, they went out for drinks. He had become a good friend and had helped her a lot at the company they were working for. I believed her. This took a few weeks for me to get over, but I did get very suspicious every time she went out and started checking up on what she was doing, which upset her. This went on for a few months and I did suspect that something was going on even though she promised many times that nothing was going on and got very upset when I checked up on her. In the interim I changed jobs, middle of the year and now have a very stressful demanding job which my wife encouraged me to take, but still suspected something may not be right. A month later it all came out. My 16 year-old SON saw the two of them necking and kissing in one of the local parks after work. This nearly killed me and I got very very upset, as she then admitted that she had a relationship with this man and had made love to him, she says only once, in his car at a sheltered spot next to the river……, although I know in my heart that it was in a park one night after they had been out for a company dinner... This nearly wiped me out, as I am not that big a person and have always felt embarrassed because I am not that well endowed and this guy is a lot bigger than me, both in stature and his penis. We were both virgins when we met each other. My wife even admitted this to me when I asked her. No, I did not kick my wife out, I was very upset more because of all the lies, but insisted she stay and we resolve this and get on with our lives and patch things up. It has taken me a long time to deal with what has happened and I feel absolutely useless, worthless and a fool. Yes, I have got a bit possessive now and she gets very upset because I keep on checking up on her, but all I want is to get this behind us, get the truth out in the open and go on. I am willing to go for counselling but she does not want to, as she insists that no-one can help her with the way she feels. She tells me that she still loves me but refuses to break off the friendship with this guy and insists that they are just friends and I am just trying to “Control” her by insisting that she stops seeing him altogether, even though it is hurting me so much. We have had many arguments about this and she often goes out with her girlfriends as she says she needs some space from me. One of these friends is a divorcee who has already told me that I must go out and find my own friends and let my wife have her own friends. Later last year I discovered that she had changed the mailing address for her cellphone account to his address. When I asked her about it she said she was sick of me checking up on her and that it was her private business and nothing to do with me and that all I wanted to see was how many times she had been phoning him. Late last year I eventually convinced her to get the account mailed back to our home address. I thought things were really improving before Christmas, but then I noticed on Christmas day that she had a new 14 carat gold bracelet on. When I asked her where she got it from, she first told me she bought it herself on a sale. Later when I asked her again she admitted that the same guy had given it to her for Christmas. This upset the rest of my day, as it was a much fancier gift than the gold chain and pendant that I had given my wife. How can I now believe that it is just a casual friendship? Do men really give this type of gift to someone who is just a friend, I find this hard to believe, or am I wrong? My children are very upset about the situation too and I can see it is affecting their life and schoolwork. My daughter keeps on asking why her mother is talking and treating me so lousy. I really love my wife tremendously and out of respect for my wife have told no-one about this up to now but just don’t know how to deal with it anymore. She is all I have and really do not want to lose her. AM I WRONG IN ASKING HER TO GIVE UP THIS “FRIENDSHIP” FOR OUR SAKES? Can I really believe this is just a friendship?<BR>I really do not want to end this marriage, I love my wife very very much. She says she needs some space and is feeling suffocated and just does not want to discuss it with me any more, although she is making no moves to leave right now and says she does love me, although has often threatened that she has to get away from it all. <BR>So, I guess the first step is to try and explain to my wife again that she should stop all contact with this guy.<BR>How do I do that when I have already tried twice already, once after I had been to my local doctor and discussed what had happened (I told her the doctor suggested it), and once a few months later when we had a disagreement and I eventually convinced her to change the mailing address on her cellphone account back to our home address. At this time it was a trade-off that she at least change the cellphone address as she kept on insisting that this was just a control issue and all I wanted to do was CONTROL HER??<BR>I feel if I approach her again about it, she will just get mad at me again.<BR>She is also feeling very homesick and depressed and wants to go back to the country we immigrated from, as all our family, both sides are still there. Her mom is not very well and she feels very guilty as she feels it is her duty to help her mom (she is still married, second marriage, but her husband is a very selfish useless man, this is my wife's stepfather). I have told her she must go as soon as possible, but we are in a financial bind right now and do not have $2500 for airplane tickets never mind the other expenses it will incur. Her mother has not accepted the fact that we have immigrated to give our children a better chance in life.<BR>My wife's father, who is also re-married, on the other hand has been very supportive and encouraged us all along and still thinks it is the best thing we could have done, not only for our children but also ourselves, as the country we came from is rife with crime and corruption.<BR>I have asked and suggested many times in the last few years that my wife seek some counselling to help her with her feelings, depression, homesickness but she says no-one can help her with the way she feels. My wife was the driving force at first to immigrate and pushed me for two years. After I had fully assessed it and agreed she was correct and starting making plans to immigrate she did get nervous about it. It was still a joint decision to immigrate and we discussed it many many times before doing it, spoke to many different people and prayed many times about it. <BR>Is this not somewhat ironic, she is the one that does not like this country and wants to go back 'home' but she is the one who has got involved with one of the local men?<BR>I am feeling pretty desperate right now as I have discussed this many times, sometimes in the wrong way (anger), sometimes calmly, to the stage where she says she just doesnt want to talk about it anymore, I must just give her time and believe that I love her. Yes, I have been pretty angry at times, but have also practically gone on my hands and knees to do my best to give her what I can.<BR>This is going to be very difficult for me I know it. I know I am also at fault here but how do I deal with my own feelings of uselessness, a failure, incompatible, worthless and to blame for it all, although I know deep down that it has not been all my fault?<BR>I love her so much, even more than now, and tell her this daily, and tell her daily what a wonderful person she is. Yes, I do get irritated at times when I also feel she is being unfair and taking advantage of the situation to belittle me and justify what has happened in that it is my fault, even though I am trying my best to give her everything she wants despite working on average an 11 hour day (I dont even know what she is up to after work, because I only get home much later than her usually. This is absolutely TEARING ME APART THAT SHE IS STILL IN CONTACT WITH HIM. I told her last night that I am going for counselling today, she was not very happy and also said that most of the counsellors here not worth anything as they do not have to have a recognized Degree to practice (somehow I have a feeling that she has been told this by the other man).<BR>I gotta get some work done now before I lose my job too.<BR>This I am still not sure of, she does not go out at night, but does come home pretty late, most nights aorund 6:30 pm and gets off work at 4:30. She does do shopping after work but sometimes I wonder if that is all?<BR>I have asked her many many times if it is all over and she has said yes, but there is still that doubt. A day or two before New Year she came home around 6:45 pm and got all upset when I was a bit upset as she did not tell me where she had been. I asked her if she had seen him that night, she insisted not, but that she had been to gym, which I know she had not. The following day she did mention something that she had discussed with him concerning her old workfriends, but insisted she had nt seen him, but had spoken to him?????<BR>The 'gift' at Christmmas has made me very upset, but all the same I am not prepared to give her up, or at the same time let this 'friendship' continue, unless she says it is all over. She often says she does not deserve me, but........every night when I get home she is just so irritable that anything I say to her she snaps at me or get supset or impatient.<BR>I am in a terrible mess and it is affecting my job. I am going for my first counselling/assessment session today.<BR>I really need some help from all you good ladies on how to win back my wife's FULL affection, and some help from you guys on how to cope with my feelings/anger/resentment/worthlessness.<P><p>[This message has been edited by kevan (edited January 23, 2001).]

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I feel your pain, and I welcome you. This is the best place to begin to heal. Listen to the advice, practice what you have learned. Right now, concentrate on you. Heal you, your wife will see the difference you are trying to make in your life. Plan A is asking your wife to have no further contact with this man. IF she refuses, she is not ready to give him up, so for your sanity, you must lay down the rules. Listen to the forum about Plan A, not giving in to her, and making sure she understands the Plan. You can not begin to heal your marriage if he is still in her life. You must make sure that she has to make a choice, him, or you. ANd then let it be until you know she has made her decision, then go to the next step. LIsten to advice from all of us, we are here for you, any time. Good Luck. gn

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kevan Offline OP
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So, do I again just tell her that she must stop seeing him?<BR>I have tried this more than once and she gets angry and mad and tells me I am trying to 'control' her and that the affair is over and they are just friends. He has even told me this himself last year ago when I found the two of them together in a shopping mall.

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I have found it helpful to print out the portions of this website and show them to my H, specifically, the articles on affairs and Dr. Harley's statements that there should be absolutely no contact with the lover. Sometimes reading from the articles or Q&A's has been enough to start a conversation in a non-confrontational manner.<P>It sounds like you need to really think about "Plan A and Plan B", plan your approach (be calm and respectful to your W), then execute it without reserve. You also need to give Plan A some time to take hold. If this does not work, then move to Plan B. However, do not use Plan B as a threat, that can only backfire.<P>You are absolutely right that OM has to be completely out of the picture for the two of you to work on making your marriage better.<P>If asking her to read print outs from this site or reading them out loud to her are poor options in your situation, try to write her a letter inserting some helpful and supportive quotes from these materials. Your letter should be loving and respectful while explaining your feelings about the situation.<P>My H now sometimes asks me whether this site has any advice on specific issues that we face. Obviously, he has become more receptive, but that has taken more than 4 months and a lot of patience on my part in following plan A.<P>I hope this helps, and I wish you well.

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SO, one session with the counsellor behind me. I have been told I am suffering from deep depression, so who wouldnt be?<BR>Of course my wife seems to be a bit in doubt about this and has already told me that she hopes they are not going to put me on anti-depressants again. Yes, I was on anti-depressants for two years previously, before her affair started.<BR>Every night when I get home from work the first thing I do is try and give my wife a hug and a kiss, but these days she is just mocking me. Yes, I know she is usually busy preparing dinner or something else, but does a 5 second hug really disrupt everything.<P>NOW, HOW MUCH MORE ridiculing, mockery, short temperedness, do I have to absorb without getting a bit put off and my rights as a person put down? I feel that even my children are starting to lose respect for me as I am constantly grovelling and letting my wife say whatever she likes to me, whether we are alone, with the kids or with friends. Yes, I have sometimes seen the looks on our friends faces when she is short with me or mocks me in front of them.<BR>Hey, we are only all human and are not perfect.<BR>Am I now expected to be the perfect person in front of my wife all the time?<BR>Whenever I approach her to talk about us and our emotions she says she has heard enough about it.<BR>------------------<BR><p>[This message has been edited by kevan (edited January 24, 2001).]

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zycb:<BR><B>I have found it helpful to print out the portions of this website and show them to my H, </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hah, what a joke I printed out some of the material (Emotional Needs and Love Busters) after discussing it with my counsellor, wrote a covering letter, mentioned it to my wife, and now she is madder than ever, has told me she is not interested at all in any of this and is not even interested in the counselling issue.<P>Feb 13th<P>So, no matter what I try now, it is to no avail, she has made up her mind that she is leaving and going back to SA to her demanding, selfish, hard-headed mother who has basically manipulated her all her life. So why bother even trying anymore, I am just wasting my energy that I should be using to better myself. <P>She makes me as horny as all hell every time I see her because I am so attracted to her. No, she is not a perfect model but she is definitely attractive especially for her age and even some of my friends have commented on it and have even shown that they would love to get her into bed, even the guy I thought was my best friend finds it difficult to keep his hands off her once he has had a few drinks. I have mentioned this to her, but she says I must stop being ridiculous, he is just having some fun, but I can see how obvious it is, I am no fool. <P>Of course I am the last person she wants to get into bed with now, as I just am not good enough for her anymore and have hurt her so much with my words and actions that she will never warm to me again. She has found someone else more physically appealing that can meet her sexual needs better than what I ever have. I have always felt that I wasn’t giving her enough as I am below average in sexual girth and now that she has found a real man I guess I have lost her completely because she has found that size really does matter and does make a difference. I can see that she would just love to get back with this man and experience some more of what she had with him and is just getting more and more frustrated staying with me.<P>She thinks I am just a useless weakling, as she has already told me that she wants her husband to be a man, not a wimp like I have been the last few years and the last year in particular while I have been trying to cope and keep my head above water and stay employed so as to meet her and my children’s financial needs. Was I so blinded that I did not see what was happening, yes I did suspect things, but surely after all these years of marriage you would think that she would have approached me first and told me where I was going wrong in our relationship, even though I know myself that sometimes I do tend just to ignore things.<P>Every time she talks to me I can hear the anger and how she despises me by the tone of her voice. She has given up trying to be nice to me any longer and just views me as a burden to her life and just feels obliged to be with me until she can get the hell out of this country. As I told her last night all I want is to hold her in my arms and love her, but she said she is going back to SA regardless and I must come to terms with that. Well then, she must go and get herself sorted out whatever it takes, I have had enough of trying to suit her every need, getting frustrated when I cant meet them. <P>I know there is the very good chance that once she gets there she will find someone more suited to her needs. She has proven to herself that she can do it as she has once already in the last year, so why shouldn’t she do it again once I am out of her way? She will have no responsibilities to worry about once she leaves here.<P>I am really trying my best to get into my job but am just being overwhelmed by this all the time and find it very difficult to concentrate on anything.<BR>How I despise the day that this affair came out in the open and that the two of them were so stupid, brazen and careless to sit and kiss each other in Minoru Park in broad daylight and that my son had to see them. This just shows that she has little or no respect left for me and actually did not care who saw them together and was just more interested in having a good time. Some of our friends do use this park occasionally too as a place to relax. She must have been really fed up with me to do something like this, after me believing that she would never do something like this, as even though she used to joke around with our friends often as we all do she always portrayed that she did not like the very promiscuous attitude of the people she worked with. Although I did at the time start seeing that her attitude and level of morality was changing with time the longer she worked there with this bunch of immoral bunch of men. I did, many times try and get her to leave this company, primarily because of the health problems she was experiencing from the chemical fumes but also because of the attitude of the people in the company.<P>How do I get rid of this anger and frustration that builds up inside me every time I think of this guy and what he has caused by seducing my wife? Often when I think about it I get this horrible feeling running through my body like an electric current that is burning me. I think of the two of them making love and I get this horrible big knot in my stomach and just want to die. Every time I see a dark-blue Buick, the same as he drives these feelings well up again inside me. Every time my wife mentions the company or I find paperwork at home with the company name on it, it makes me furious. Every time I drive past Minoru Park I get so upset. I am sure that most of the people at that company know what has happened and are smirking behind my back at what a fool I have been to mistreat such a lovely person as my wife and let this happen. Mind you, they are such an immoral bunch that they most probably think, well done, at least he managed to get in her pants. <P>One of the main topics of interest around that office was sex and promiscuity with dirty jokes being circulated quite often. As an example, even after my wife had left the company, when she re-routed her cellphone account to his Post Office Box address (so that I would not see who she had been in contact with), he dropped it off at the company she is working at presently in an envelope together with a graphic joke of the Bay-Watch girls giving blow-jobs. He called it a ‘little ha-ha”! I find this pretty hard to accept that it is just something ‘innocent’ coming from a ‘friend’.<P>Besides the fact that he is still in contact with her in this fashion, I also find it upsetting that he has the cheek to go and visit my wife at the company she is working at presently. One of our good friends works together with my wife at this company. I have only had the opportunity once to visit my wife where she works presently and she ushered me outside as soon as I arrived without introducing me to anyone. Her excuse was that they were very strict about visitors and did not take kindly to people standing around which seems a bit lame to me, considering that at the previous company she was pretty open about introducing me to her workmates.<P>Slowly but surely all our friends here are finding out what has happened and I am feeling more of a fool and an idiot every day because I know that most of this has been my fault for not giving my wife what she really wanted in life, that is to live close to her mother.<P>What a fool I have been to think that we could ever have been happy here in Canada. I should just have done what she wanted many years ago and moved down to Durban so that she could be close to her mother. Her mother is now suffering from skin cancer, osteo-arthritis and emphysema, although will still not stop smoking cigarettes despite all the doctor’s warnings. <BR>We would have ended up with them living with us and supporting them, as he is just a lazy bum who thinks that we should now be obliged to support him in his old age. As an outsider I find it so difficult to accept that she is willing to go back to the two people who have caused her so much pain and anguish in her life when she was young. <BR>I suppose I am just very insensitive and don’t realize the mother-daughter bond. She has already told me that my sister is taking care of my mother so I have nothing to worry about. Maybe she is right, I should be like my sister’s husband and just accept that I must take in my parents-in-law and look after them? There is a subtle difference here, my parents were always and my mother still is financially independent to a large degree.<P>Yesterday morning I left for work feeling very depressed and was really upset and in tears. This is mainly due to the feeling of guilt that I have for what has happened and what I have done to her and the constant feeling that she is just tolerating me and is sick and tired of my nonsense and that I cannot let go of it. She phoned me a few times at work yesterday morning, but I was very busy and only managed to call her back around 10:30 am. Straight away I could hear the anger, sharpness and resentment in her voice because I had not called her back when she thought I should have called her back. This continued even when I got home last night and no matter how much I apologize to her for what has happened and tell her that I still love her very deeply, she just seems to be ignoring me more and more. She says she cannot take it anymore and I must just pull myself right. I asked her last might how her day had been and she answered, “terrible, what do you expect after walking out of here in the condition you were?”<P>Today, Valentine’s day I bought her a dozen red roses in a vase and a card, and left it on the dining room table as she was still asleep when I left for work. I got a surprising phone call when she got to work, thanking me for the flowers and the lovely surprise she got when she walked downstairs this morning. This is the first time in quite a while that I have heard a loving tone in her voice.<P><BR>

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hi Kevan,<BR>I just had to respond because you sound in so much pain! I won't go into my whole story but I had an EA, and my H & I are still trying to make it work. It is very hard!! <BR>We are trying everything we can. You may want to try looking at <A HREF="http://www.retrouvaille.com" TARGET=_blank>www.retrouvaille.com</A> <BR>We went last weekend.<BR> It is an intensive program. There is a lot of work through all the pain & muck in your marriage. Then a followup session as well.<BR>I just wanted to say I was utterly hopeless last Friday and after the weekend have a glimmer of hope for 'us' again. Not that things are rosy over night. <BR>I think you have to look at how long the garbage got dumped into a trash can. You have to take it out gently piece by piece. <BR>I sensed a lot of disrespect towards her family. I wonder if that is directed towards her or them? Think about it?<BR>Marriage is a painfilled fulltime job but there are some joys. Find them. And don't forget the other side is filled with pain as well. Single & divorced people can also be full of pain.<BR>Blessings,<BR>MarilynRae<BR><P>------------------<BR>No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings. - William Blake -

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MarilynRae:<BR><B>hi Kevan,<BR>And don't forget the other side is filled with pain as well.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks so much.<P>How I would love it if my wife was prepared to work through it with me like you guys are doing, she is just not interested at all in any type of counselling.<P>The disrespect is DEFINITELY NOT directed towards my wife (anger, hurt, disappointment, confusion, yes, maybe). I am sorry to say that I do not have much respect at all for her mother and stepfather.<P>NOW, HOW, HOW, HOW do I keep from wanting to hold my wife close to me, hugher and love her. I have not pulled away from my wife at all through this, if anything there is the overwhelming desire to be with her and close to her at every opportunity, I just feel this constant need to be physically very close and in contact with her. This is pulling me apart, as she is shying away.

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All I can say is what helped me. When my H said I am here ready to hug you, I really want you etc, when you are ready I am here that helped. When H got angry or LB'd it pushes me away. When H tried to look at reasons why I was tempted, then took ownership & apologized for his contributions to our downfall that helped.<BR>ANY anger pushes me away. But H has been verbally abusive in past and this is a longterm issue.<BR>Are you a christian or a believer in prayer?<BR>I really think God is the answer to healing marriages. Bring your brokeness to him, you both need to see /feel your brokenness.<BR>Blessings,<BR>MarilynRae<BR>PS: Is she still in your house? That is a good sign, shows her ambivalence. I KNOW this is hard for you. <P>------------------<BR>No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings. - William Blake -

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Kevan, I have just confessed my infidelity to my husband. He, like you, has demonstrated his committment to our marriage. In my case, the "friendship" is over.<P>I would suggest if your wife is unwilling to break the friendship, you have a problem. My husband tried to confront me when he suspected and I denied all. I selfishly at the time wanted this other life where I was supposedly the goddess.<P>In my shame and repentance and remorse, I have chosen to make the break absolutely final with mr. x in order that God and my husband can see my desire to be healed and reconciled.<P>You are one brave person. I hope your wife will recognize immediately who she should choose and that all will work out for you both.<P>------------------<BR>Fresh Start

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by freshstart:<BR><B><BR>You are one brave person. I hope your wife will recognize immediately who she should choose and that all will work out for you both.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Thanks so much for this. It does help to know that there is always the chance that things will go right.<BR>I now have a further problem, our 16 year-old son, who saw the two of them kissing in the park, now told me last night that he cannot take the tension and upset any longer and is going to move out until things smooth over, he wanted to know from me when will things come right.<BR>Last night my wife refused to let me have $70 for my next counselling session, so guess what, more upset and tension. My wife keeps a very tight control on the finances in our home. Hey, yes I did get upset about this, who wouldnt.<P>It took me an hour last night to try and convince our son that it was not a good idea to move out but he said it is just affecting him too much seeing us like this and my wife constantly treating me like dirt. He absolutely hates and despises the OM. I have asked him to reconsider and go to the Chucrh Youth Group that our 20 year-old daughter is an active member of to see if they can help him deal with things.<P>I really wish you and your husband all the best and Godspeed to a wonderful recovery in your marriage and am sure that your husband is a much better person than I am to have so much patience and understanding. <BR>I have tried everything I possibly can think of, even asking my wife to read some of the writings from Dr. Harley but she thinks I am just crazy and must just forget that it all happened and accept life as it is right now. She does not think that any 'stranger' - meaning the counsellors could have any sensible way of me improving and helping to straighten things out.<BR>I have declared my love to my wife, my understanding of what has happened, that I have done wrong, that I must put things right that I know I am to blame, but I still get talked to like dirt and our children are getting more and more upset all the time.<P>This makes me feel even worse now that our son wants to move out because he feels he jsut cannot concentrate on any of his schoolwork and cannot bare waiting at home every night until 6:30 pm for his mother to come home, when we all know she gets off work at 4:30 and is 10 minutes from home. Then we have to go shopping for food. I only get home from work most evenings at around 6:45.<P>No, I do not expect to control my wife's every move and constant whereabouts, or expect dinner to be served when I walk in the door, but is it not only fair that we as a family know what is happening?<P>How am I supposed to feel when my wife phones me at 4:45 from her cellphone, leaves a message on my voicemail, I phone her back 5 minutes later, her cellphone is switched off and nobody in the family knows where she is until she walks in the door at 6:30 pm with not even a shopping bag to show that she had been shopping and is not prepared to tell us where she has been as she feels we are just trying to control her life?<P>Maybe my son wanting to leave home and the reasons therefor may just make my wife realise that something has to be done.<P>God bless you and I truly wish you everything of the best for the future.<BR>

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by kevan:<BR><B> Last night my wife refused to let me have $70 for my next counselling session, so guess what, more upset and tension. My wife keeps a very tight control on the finances in our home. Hey, yes I did get upset about this, who wouldnt.</B><P>This sums up most of the advice I have been giving you. You need stop letting things happen to you, Kevan, assert yourself, and gain some self-respect and respect in the eyes of your wife. In marriage you get what you tolerate, and you are tolerating more abuse than pretty much anyone I have seen on this board in a year.<P>This situation will not change by your W suddenly become enlightened and kind. It will change on the day when you decide enough is enough, and then it will change suddenly and dramatically. Until then, she will keep taking your paycheck, having sex with her boyfriend every day, making out with him in public, and treating you like cr*p. <P>You have to ask yourself...is this a marriage? What am I preserving? Is this all you deserve? I don't think so. You seem like a kind, smart, ethical, responsible man. You can either find someone who treats you better, or take some action to change the way this woman treats you, but you need to do SOMETHING.<P>My prayers are with you.<P>Mike<BR>

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike C2:<BR><B>[QUOTE]Originally posted by kevan:<BR>[b] .....or take some action to change the way this woman treats you, but you need to do SOMETHING.<P>My prayers are with you.<P>Mike</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks.<P>You've got a point there.<P>

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike C2:<BR><B>[QUOTE]<P>My prayers are with you.<P>Mike</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So thats it, screwed up again. I got home last nighta bit late from work, unaviodable. At least got a peck on the cheek this time. My wife went upstairs, came down and found<BR> me looking at her little notebook with her telephone numbers in it. It is a little business diary and I reall wasnt interested in her damn telephone numbers, was just looking at<BR> all the intersrting info they put in these littel diaries, like the maps, conversion table etc. Of course she blew a fuse and started giving me hell about me poking my nose in her<BR> personal belongings. Its not as if I went snooping in her handbag, it was on the diningroom table. So of course another argument. Even though I apologised many times for<BR> doing this I still got the cold shoulder. My 16 year old son was upset again last night about this all and is now convinced it is time he moved out for a while, says he cant take<BR> me being beaten up like this and treated like cr..p all the time for stupid inconsequential things and cant take the fact that she thinks it is till alright that she keeps in contact<BR> with the [censored] OM. I am going for counselling again tonight whether she likes it or not and whether she thinks it is a stupid idea or not.<P> Love all you guys out there that are helping and supporting me through this.

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<BR>Kevan,<P>Can you tell me some good stuff about your wife? I'm having trouble figuring out your relationship. I see all this terribly, negative, disrespectful stuff that she is doing and saying, and I am trying to figure out why you want to be near rather than far from this person.<P>I have repeatedly counseled you to take some sort of strong action to stop this cycle. It may surprise you, but the next thing that is going to change will npt be her leaving....it will be your love dying. Unless you are a total masochist, no one can keep their love alive under the barrage you are withstanding.<P>What does your counselor say? He/she must be advocating some sort of assertive behavior by you.<P>Mike

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike C2:<BR><B><BR>Kevan,<P>Can you tell me some good stuff about your wife? <P>Mike </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My wife is a lovable caring person. She has the most beautiful blue eyes that just bowl everyone over. She is a very attractive lady, at least I think so and so do many of our friends and associates. She is usually a happy, chatty person who gets on with everyone and anyone. She is super-friendly even to strangers. Through this all she has still been dedicated to keeping our home running as best as she can when she is around. She is conscientious and attentive, but unfortunately is easily influenced and easily hurt, oversensitive. Hey man, I love this lady to bits, but just dont know how to come to terms with the fact that whatever I try and do at home it just does not seem good enough and how to go on dealing with the fact that she is just so short-tempered around us so often.<BR>

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kevan:<BR><B> Hey man, I love this lady to bits, but just dont know how to come to terms with the fact that whatever I try and do at home it just does not seem good enough and how to go on dealing with the fact that she is just so short-tempered around us so often.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, now I have done it, me and my big damn mouth, when will I ever learn to shut up and keep my stupid selfish emotions to myself. Somehow I think the chance of getting close again to her is now gone for good. <BR>We had a pretty good weekend, a bit strained but quite good. <BR>Then Sunday night I blew it again. Started discussing with her our relationship and what is happening and where we are going. <BR>She has just had enough of me harping on it all the time and me reminding her and off-loading guilt onto her. <BR>I am just finding it so difficult to accept that she will not completely break off contact with this OM. <BR>A few weeks ago I said to her that I cannot expect her to change any of her relationships until I can improve myself and get myself sorted out, but this is just completely eating me away. <BR>She feels caged in, oppressed and smothered. I have never meant to do this but possibly have without realising it as she had more freedom in South Africa than what she has had here having to work fullday. <BR>It is quite obvious I have not been pulling my weight enough and relying too much on her as she said last weekend she did it with the OM because she needed someone to lean on. <BR>She has now told me she will be going back to South Africa as soon as possible and doubts if she will ever return to Canada. <BR>This is all as a result of me not being able to keep my mouth shut. <BR>I told the kids everything that has been going on because they keep on asking me why she wouldnt give up this OM completely. They knew I was upset on Christmas day but did not know why until I stupidly told them instead of keeping my big mouth shut. (about the gift OM bought her). <BR>She is now sick and tired that every weekend I start my nonsense about our relationship and just feels that I will never ever let her forget it. All I want is just to get back to our old selves but I guess that is now gone forever through my stupidity, insensitivenes, and selfishness. <BR>She is very very upset with me that I told the kids everything and all the details and that I have actually poisoned them against her (my catching them in the Shopping Mall last year when I got called away from the golf tournament and went hunting for her to tell her I had to go to work, the resultant argument with OM where he told me that I must stop treating her like a child and grow up as the affair was over and they were just friends [that was before Christmas], the gold bracelet gift OM gave her for Christmas, that she was still in contact with him but I was not too sure how serious it was, that it was tearing me apart) , what a damn fool I have been. <BR>Our son got upset last night and told her that he could not take the fighting anymore, cannot concentrate on his schoolwork and wants to go and stay with someone else for a while until we sort things out. She got very very upset about this and refused to listen to our son and demanded that I put this right. Our son then blurted it out that he cannot take it anymore that she is still in contact with this OM. She told him that her relationships and the relationship between me and her were not of direct concern of the kids and that whatever happens she still loves them tremendously, but it did not end there and our son and my wife ended up having a terrible argument. <BR>In the ensuing argument she did say that she had returned the bracelet!!! This is the first I knew about this. <BR>She also feels that our daughter has been judging her unfairly and cannot see both sides of the picture and that both kids have come to see her as only their servant and nothing better. <BR>We eventually all three asked her what she wants us to do to put things right again. She said she just wants help and cooperation from all of us around the home and more consideration for her, her privacy and some time to herself instead of being tied down to the home, cooking, washing ironing and cleaning. <BR>Yes, I have expected too much from her, expected her to be totally honest with me and tell me where she was going all the time because I was so scared of what was happening and had happened. As she said to me last night I have put too much importance on my job and forgotten eveything else around me. <BR>I have been treating her like a child and know now that I have very possibly lost her for good through my pettiness and my blabbermouth. Believe it or not it was not intended to be this way but as they say in the classics "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" <BR>As she says, she has gone through utter hell these last six years here in Canada, has tried everything she can but just cannot do it anymore and feels more frustrated, tied down, restricted and oppressed than she ever did in South Africa even with all the violence and security issues to put up with there. <BR>So instead of listening to the advice I received, having some patience, and trying to get myself sorted out first, I have instead pushed things over the edge and completely torn my family and marriage apart - well done. <BR>Of course once she finds out that I have been discussing this with our good friends that will be the end of those friendships too because she will tell them the truth from her side. <P>I should have just listened to her in the first place and moved down to where her mother is staying. As she says I have put my kids first in place of our marriage. <BR>I now have two weeks backlog of work to try and get on top of, including the three days I was off work last week, but that is my fault and no-one else's.<BR>IP: Logged<BR>poodlepapa<BR>Member posted March 05, 2001 06:39 PM<P>i have been followig your posts since the begining and a couple of things jump out...i mean things that are going on...things that you describe that sound classic. <BR>i understand that it's your life and marriage that's being discussed here so forgive me when i say that regardless of how painful the entire mess is, in truth it's not really so different then many of the other stories that you can read about here. <BR>i say this because i want you to realize that many of us on this board have had to deal with very similar situations. <BR>obviously we all deal with these kind of problems differently, in terms of resolving them that is. one thing is clear however, there are certain universal responses to various situations. <BR>one is is the issue of blaim. while trouble in a marriage is always the shared responsability of the two parties involved having an affair isn't! she did it,not you! it's a cowardly and dishonest solution to any problem to lie and cheat to make yourself feel better. <BR>two, cheaters lie! that's what cheating is all about. so no matter what she says at this point, if it can't be verified, you can't believe her. <BR>three, if she is interested in resovling her marriage problems she must commit...that means giving up any suspect relationships, period. especially those with the person she cheated with! anything less is bulls---t! <BR>you sound pathetic and what you should be is angry! your children feel the anger on your behalf..why don't you? why are you making excuses for this woman? and please, don't say it's because you love her. we all have to learn to let go of the things we love when they become a detramentil to our lives. sad but that's the way it is. <BR>now i'm not throw her out but you must set some boundries or no matter how much you want it, your going to lose your marriage. <BR>1. honest answers. you must have them.<BR>2. marriage counciling and therapy for yourself and her.<BR>3. total committment to the marriage.<BR>4. respect for you and her family, (her children).<BR>5. a willingness on your part to let her leave if that's what she wants. <BR>step back, work on yourself to improve your own persona and who you are as a man. do this not for her but because you need to come out of this mess better then you were before. concentrate on the welfare of your children...you must! these are the things you can do right now to improve the situation. how she behaves is up to her, not you. <BR>stop pushing her and step back. don't be mean but be reserved. let her life take it's course and if you can't stand her behavior then ask her to leave or you and the children leave. <BR>you can't control her! only she can decide to behave correctly and she must do it because she wants to. not because you demand it. sorry but that's the way it is. <BR>once again, if you find that you can't tolerate her behavior ask her to leave. but no more fighting! it solves no problems and demeans you as a person. <BR>good luck and try to remember. if you want some one to stay you have to let them decide that it's where they want to be.<BR>poodlepapa <BR>IP: Logged<P>quote: <P>Originally posted by poodlepapa:<BR> good luck and try to remember. if you want some one to stay you have to let them decide that it's where they want to be.<BR>poodlepapa <P>Thanks guys, this encouragement is great. <P>I asked her last night why she did not tell me that she had returned the stupid bracelet that the pig gave her for Christmas, she could not answer me. I wonder if she actually has returned it or given it to this divorcee buddy of hers for safekeeping. Maybe I should show some trust. <BR>I want to write a letter to this pigs wife and tell her that my wife has promised to break all contact with the grubby-pawed bum and if she knows anything to the contrary she is free to let me know. <BR>If she betrays my trust and the trust of our children again, she will be out of our home so fast she wont know what has happened. <BR>Hey, man, I wish I had the available money to buy her a plane ticket and get her out of here as soon as possible. <BR>


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