This is my first post. I discovered my SO's affair right before Xmas, and he confirmed it. He hasn't broken off with the OW completely yet, and I'm using plan A for all my heart. My question is this. After I found out, I told him I still loved him, and desired him, but that condoms were now necessary. We are spending some good quality time together, lots of talking and affection. When we finally had sex, it was better than it has been in years. Afterwards, he commented that maybe the condom was because I had something on the side. I held in my anger, and told him that I had never cheated on him, and to lie about it at this stage would be foolish. He's brought that same topic up 2-3 times now, jokingly, and it's really bothering me. Should I forgo the protection? Really trying to shower the LB and get him off the fence!

Don't forego the condoms. Go read A2timer's post. He just found out he got herpes from his W (WS).<P>He is probably just projecting a bit of his guilt when referring to you cheating. Maybe hoping in a way that his guilt wouldn't be that bad. Too bad! <P>Keep up the plan A and pass on the LB's.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Ooops, I didn't mean LB!! I meant that I was trying shower love!! Took me three weeks of reading posts and SAA to get my nerve to even post! LOL. I'll get better next time.<BR>Thanks for advice.<BR>T

Condoms? Heck I recommend 2 or 3 or how many of these things can you get on at one time??? Am I being rash? Sorry, I seem to be a little manic-depressive lately.

Dear Twyla,<P>Condoms are not 100% effective in preventing STD's. The herpes virus is so tiny that it can pass through the molecules of the latex or sheepskin condom. Sort of like a small child turning sideways and slipping through a loose gate that an adult can't get through. Also, sometimes condoms break. Even though they are tested, if they are old, or if there's a thin spot on the condom, or if there's insufficient lubrication, the friction can wear a hole in the condom. <P>Onward and upward with graphic descriptions: If after intercourse, the couple is lazing in the afterglow, and the man gets soft, the condom can stay in his partner's body, and fluid can seep out onto her vulva. Major possibility of infection from the herpes virus, if it's present.<P>Not everybody posting to these boards is a married couple. Some people can't be married (gay partners). Those of us with cheating partners often have years of history invested, or children to consider.<P>You haven't got that obligation. All you have is a foolish hope that Plan A can work to wean your SO away from the OW. With that in mind, he is "having his cake and eating it too". What do you think SHE is doing while you are Plan A'ing?<P>I just posted to confused26 about the fiction of "but I love him". To save time, go and read it and think.<P>I know it hurts to be cheated on. You have an early warning of what your future holds. If he's cheating now, what's he going to do when boredom from a long-term relationship sets in? <P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

Bellevue<BR>Thanks for your reply. Our relationship is longterm (14 years). I really don't think working on Plan A is foolish, and it has certainly helped me see where I wasn't even meeting my own needs, let alone his. The OW? Well, I don't know what she is doing and I don't know the frequency and "depth" of their contact, but I do know that my SO and I are spending double the time together and it is quality time, and he is requesting more time with me. After reading the books and messages posted on this forum, I wonder why you think this is foolish hope. Did I miss something?<BR>T

Dear Twyla:<P>14 years? After all that time, why no marriage? Which one of you doesn't want to make it legal?<P>I said foolish because if I were dating someone and found out they were unfaithful, it would be a warning that they would likely continue to be unfaithful after marriage.<BR>It would be the "cut bait" signal. Just like any other deal breaker. (i.e., he's a member of the Nazi party or a White Supremecist group, likes to have sex with sheep, never bathed, steals money from widows and orphans, never picked up the check or always stiffed the waiter/waitress, was a deadbeat dad to his first wife, or any number of things most people would find intolerable.)<BR>What are your bottom lines? and <P>What do you love about your SO?<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

The last thing I expected from this forum was to be attacked when I needed help and support.

Dear Twyla:<P>Was my question about why you're not married an attack? If so, I apologize for being blunt or tactless. I just wondered if it was your choice or his.<P>Or did you take seriously my laundry list of intolerable characteristics? I meant to be funny, if I wasn't I apologize.<P>And asking what you liked about your SO was serious. I hang in because of important good qualities that my H has, as well as because we have a child together.<P>Please, post back. Let's talk. If I sounded like a smartass, I'm sorry.<P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess<p>[This message has been edited by Bellevue (edited February 01, 2001).]

Bella,<BR>let me apologize for being too sensitive. The last 6 weeks and in particular the last 24 hours have been more than I can cope with. Besides the infidelity, I have a daughter coming off drugs and need to support her, plus my Mom (6000 miles away) is very ill, and I just returned last week and am still turned upside down. I break down and have to leave work because I can't quit crying, but I have no leave time left, so it's unpaid. I can't even seem to get it together enough to put away the Xmas decorations. My MD started me on antidepressant today, so that may help. I'm just too overwhelmed and I took it out on you. I'm sorry.

Hang in there! I'm sure the anti-depressants will help you.<BR>Of course condoms are necessary!!! You also have every right to ask him to be tested for STD's. I'm sure you can do it in a non-LB'ing way. My H never did get tested, but I did. My MD practically insisted on it saying that I had every right, and that one must err on the side of caution.<BR>Feedback from anyone else??<BR>(results all fine btw)<BR>Re: 14 years and not married. Well, you're living together right? Makes it legal in the eyes of the law I think! The existence of the Marriage Certificate is a non-issue. You can commit yourself for life without it. Yes, I am married, but know a few couples who have been together a long time without the ceremony. I'm afraid Belle's comments did sound like a bit of a jab! (Not to flame you Bellevue, just an observation!) <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Alberta (edited February 01, 2001).]

Alberta:<P>"I'm afraid Belle's comments did sound like a bit of a jab! (Not to flame you Bellevue, just an observation!)"<P>Point well taken, and that's not the first time I've heard such a comment. Is it too late in my life for me to develop tact? I hope not.<P>I'm not sure that Twyla and her SO are living together. I checked her posts but only saw "14 years", not if they are sharing a home. <P>It takes different things to make us tick, and for me it was very important that at last we stood up before our families and promised to love each other until death, and that we had the mutual promises. (Much good it did us!)<P>Many feel "just as commited" without the paper. <P>If Twyla doesn't want to comment about the marriage thing, I will accept a "mind yer own bizness" quietly. <BR><P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

~~~~~Twyla~~~~~<P>Have you read Dr. Laura Schlessingers' book? <P>*TEN STUPID THINGS WOMEN DO TO MESS UP THEIR LIVES*<P>In your situation, it might be a very important book for you to read. Give it a try. Couldn't hurt..... and it may just be the answer you're looking for. <P>I *was* in a 14-year-relationship (before I married someone else) ..... and Twyla ..... it is NOT the same as marriage. I'm not saying it isn't special, or, that it's less important than a marriage relationship ..... but it is definetely NOT the same as a marriage.<P>Try reading that book with an open mind. It is very possible that you are not getting what you deserve in this relationship.<P>Now...... about your post. He is not wanting to put on a condom even though he has multiple partners! OH NO! Do NOT let him get away with this. Use your head and NOT his *head* (sorry .... a little weiner joke ) He does not get to call the shots about YOUR health risks. Do not be silly and give in to his risk-taking behavior. <P>In MY opinion, his remarks to you about maybe you're cheating on him .... very sad.... it speaks of low character. Big Red Warning Lights!<P>Caution caution Caution<P>------------------<BR>~*~*Yesterday~*~*<BR>all my problems seemed so far away~*

Keep the condoms...no question there.<P>as for his comments: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Afterwards, he commented that maybe the condom was because I had something on the side. I held in<BR>my anger, and told him that I had never cheated on him, and to lie about it at this stage would be foolish. He's brought that same topic up 2-3 times now, jokingly, and it's really bothering me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This may be "low character" as was posted, or it may be his guilt speaking. It is not too uncommon for a wayward partner to feel that the deserve such treatment, and therefore to start worrying that their partner might do that to them. If the latter, guilt is a good sign...<P>Good luck--<P>Kathi

Thanks for the replies everyone. It's not been a good week at all, and it's taking all my strength just to turn on the puter and check the mail. No, we're not married. I was married previously for 10 years, and he was married for 25. Both of our exspouses had affairs, and that is part of the reason we never married. At the beginning I was too worried about getting hurt again and we were both ok with that. Then, when we did talk of marriage he would always say,"maybe next year, or let's see how so and so goes." Then we would just kinda let things ride. To be honest, raising my kids, working, well, it was just easier. We don't live together, but he is here 3-4 nights/week. His affair started 8 months ago with a friend, the old EA that turned into a PA. I had no idea. Then a few slips right before Xmas and I confronted him and he told me the truth. He told me he loved me and wants a future with me, but he also loves her. Funny, when he told me I was sort of numb, and hurt, and fortunately held it together for Xmas. I also found the Hartley Affair book, and went into plan A immediately. He kept telling me that he just needs "48 more hours", or just through the weekend. @ weeks ago I had to leave and see my Mom (critically ill) and he promised it would be over when I returned. I wasn't and he slept with her again, but he would end it on Tues. On wed, he told me he wanted to wait till next Thurs, as she was going to court to get more visitation with her daughter and that he wanted to help her as she has no one.I actually didn't get too angry, or at least held it in. I couldn't help crying though, and asked him why he couldn't be there for me? He says he will, for the rest of my life, that I'm who he loves, and he knows this is selfish, but he thinks it will be the best way. Well, I slept on it and decided that I've been "the option, rather than the reason" for too long, and I gave him a plan B letter. I honestly can't be with him while this is going on. Now I'm all tied up in knots. I can't work, I can't eat or sleep. The antidepressents are helping, so hopefully I'll rise out of this. But I feel like he'll just come back, the day after her court date and think everything is fine. I don't know what to do.We really had a wonderful relationship for so long, I do love him, but the longer he procrastinates the more my heart just breaks. Need some words of wisdom.

Since you have already given him the Plan B letter, you must stay strong and DO NOT contact him. DO NOT teeter back & forth, or else your Plan B will be ineffective.<P>Regarding condoms: YES...condoms should be used, especially when multiple partners are involved. I did catch some kind of treatable minor infection (not an STD, but still, it is an infection) because the condom broke when H was with OW. It was mentally & physically unpleasant. He caught something too. Use them. Don't risk your health!<P>Anyway, if you are in Plan B, I would assume that you wouldn't be intimate with you SO, because you wouldn't be seeing him until he breaks it off with OW.<P>If your SO does finally break it off with OW, go to the doctor and get yourself checked. Better to be safe, than sorry. <BR>

You're right, there is no more contact. Unfortunately, we're both in the medical profession and I ran into him at the hospital this am. He asked if I was ok, and I just said yes, and kept moving. Cried for 2 hours later, and when I got to my clinic he had already been there and left a note to tell me he was sad. I'm so tired of hurting.

It must of been hard to see him, but you have to stay strong. Be firm in your Plan B. He needs to decide, for himself, what he really wants. He made this mess, let him find his way back, on his own.

Twyla:<P>You're enduring one of the worst things that can happen to someone who loves another. The SO is cruel, like a cat who toys with a mouse is cruel. They don't do it for pleasure, they just can't imagine how it feels to be in the prey's skin.<P>All they are thinking about is how it feels to be THEM. And since it doesn't hurt the cat when the claws go into the prey, they reason "It doesn't hurt ME; what's all the fuss about? It isn't about him/her, it's about a whole other part of my life. I'm not doing this to hurt him/her; I'm doing it for ME and for this Friend of mine. There's no reason for it to hurt him/her. He/she should get over it."<P>How do I know so well? I have also been the cat. <P>You hurt so much as the prey you think you're going to die. It's going to hurt bad for a long while to come. You don't think you can go on. (I know from personal experience as the prey.) <P>You're not going to die. You're just going to hurt. You'll be disorientated. You'll think you've gone crazy. In time it will get better. And you're probably not crazy. I asked a shrink, whether I was. Paid for an office visit. I won't tell you what he answered! <P>Whew. Come here, talk to us. There will be at least one person with just the right words, and one is all you need.<P>Sorry for the rest of the crises in your life. It all came at once, didn't it? <P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

Yup..I got bombarded with all of it. I did have another contact with him this weekend. I packed up all of his stuff and took it to the office. He broke down for about three hours, sobbing and crying. I felt really bad for him, but remained firm and I told him this wasn't a punishment, but a way for me to heal and not to be bitter. If we continued as before, anger instead of love would rule my life, and I don't want that. He asked me to promise to wait for him, and I replied that I couldn't make that promise, not out of anger, but simply because holding on to a dream would be too hard for both of us. He also said that in the past few weeks (while I was in plan A) he fell in love with me all over again. So, this was very hard, but I do feel better having taken my stand, and moving his things out. He has paged messages "beleive", and "don't Forget", but I have not responded.<BR>At least I can hold it together for work, and actually forget for a few minutes at a time. Thanks for the support.