Hi,<BR>I am kinda new at this as it seems most of you are. I just don't know where else to turn. I was shocked out of my shorts 4 months ago. My wife and I were married right out of high school, have been married 14 years and have 4 children. She told me 4 months ago that she had a I guess you could call a "quickie" affair. She met this guy at work and was calling and talking to him for 3-4 months before this happened. She was on her way to a store when she saw his vehicle and they pulled over to talk. He was leaving our city and moving away and was saying goodbye. He then said he would miss her and grabbed her hand and well it went from there. I guess if you call it lucky I was lucky that she did not have "sex" but pretty darn close. She tells me that she was in a zone and didn't really know what was going on. She realized what happened after she left. She told me about it two days later. She lied to me about the guys name for fear I knew him. I of course asked her all the questions about when, how, did she love him, want to be with him and so on. I was crushed! I truly did not know the extent of how it got so bad. I knew we were having problems and they stemmed from me not showing interest or importance to her, being judgemental and jealous. I have sinced fixed these problems or at least being very careful to not repeat these and have tried to change. I love her deeply and don't want to lose our life together or our family. She knows what the consequences were of what she did but is very confused. I don't think that I help by constantly asking what she wants and how could she do this to us and our family. Right now I am the only one who knows about this. She and I come from strong Christian backgrounds and don't really know what to do here. She finally told me why or what was lacking in our marriage about a month ago and that has been what I have been working on since. I have been withdrawing quite a few love units from her bank. She is also afraid that she may be withdrawing from mine but also has feelings of not really caring. She comes from a home that does not show alot of affection and has a hard time showing it. As far as the bedroom is concerned she does not want to do anything. She will if I ask but that is it. She tells me that she does not have any feelings for him nor does she talk to him. She tells me that she is losing her feelings of "being in love". She tells me what she knows she wants and in the long term it is me with our family and our life together. She says that she if very confused about the middle. She says she wants the feelings of missing me when Im gone, wanting to kiss me with passion, wanting to make love, wanting to hold hands and so on. She tells me she loves me and knows what is right but wants those "feelings" of wanting to do things. She will give me a peck and like it when I hold her in bed, but that is it. What is bothering her is that she wants to do these things but not with me. She wants to want to but doesn't. I am stuck! Right now because of what she did she is questioning her love for me. I have discussed with her what Dr. Harley has said and she says that it all makes sense but is worried because her feelings don't return right away. She doesn't understand how she could do that with someone else. She has asked to give it some time. She says that she is harboring resentment and anger. I of course bring up something that triggers either her thinking about it or an arguement. She gets upset and asks me again if I am going to give her time. I am trying so hard to be patient. I know what we need to do but she will not talk about it because it sets her off. She does not want to talk to a counselor or read anything pertaining to her affair, forgiving or our marriage problems. She feels very confused. One other problem she faces is that for the last three years she works a graveyard shift and barely gets 2-3 hours asleep a day. Her two days off she sleeps most of the time. The more I read about sleep deprivation the more it makes sense that she doesn't get REM sleep to process her emotions and feelings not to mention her health. I confront her about this but again it upsets her that she feels I am picking on her job and that it is not important. She feels that I don't recognize the sacrifice she is giving to our family especially being available to our children and not having to put them in daycare. I know though what it is doing to us. She is not a talking type person so it is hard to sit and wait and not talk to anyone. I am having a real problem with her going out with her friends especially in light of what has happened and how she feels about us. One of her concerns in the past was the feeling of me being possessive and wanting her home at a certain time, who she was with and so on. She wants to go out with her friends to have fun but this also includes going to a nightclub. It is really hard for me say sure go ahead have fun. I want to trust her but it is scaring me to death that if something happens it may be the end. She is afraid that since she did it once what will prevent her from doing it again. I have been trying like mad to dump into her bank again of the love units but don't feel like it is working. I feel like we have a chance right now but don't want to blow it by asking questions about her going out. I am also scared when the alcohol starts flowing things happen. She said that her issues from before was the feeling of me not trusting her. I don't know what to do. I almost feel like checking up on her but also know it isn't right. Any ideas on any of this?? Sorry for taking so long. I have been holding it in for 4 months. I really needed to vent. Thanks!<P>Myohmy

Welcome <B>myohmy</B>...<P>You've read the basics...<BR>...and gotten some counseling...<P><BR>You're doing the best you can!<P>You can check my experience in Plan A at my post...<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000176.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.)</A>.<P>Your stuck on...<BR>Checking up on her...<BR>Asking her questions...<BR>Letting her go out...<BR>... it's hard!<P>As far as checking up on her...<BR>...if it's something that is "eating" away at you... stop and give it up.<P>As far as asking her questions...<BR>...it's not as important as you expressing your feelings to her...<BR>...openly... honestly...<BR>...but <I>not</I> in a hurtful way...<BR>...and not <I>too</I> often.<P>As far as letting her go out...<BR>...again.... an honest but caring message of how this hurts you is all you can do.<P>Have you started counseling formally yet?<BR>If not... it may be well worth it!<P>Perhaps consider seeing your doctor about anti-depressants to get you through this hard period.<P>At some time... her participation will be needed...<BR>...slowly prepare her for this.<P> <P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A>

Thanks for your help. I am feeling really stuck. I feel like she doesn't want to try. She still tells me though that she loves me and kisses me when we say goodnight or leave. I have been so angry that she never talked to me and then boom landed this in my lap. I feel like we could have worked on things so long ago. I also feel like her lack of sleep is really not letting her deep down emotions and reasoning come out. I feel like I am in a loop. Every time I try to talk she brings up that she never does anything right and it blooms from there. I feel like if we don't talk we will never get anywhere. We have not started counseling because she does not like to talk. She comes from a family that does not talk about feelings or emotions much less express them. I am climbing a pretty big wall with trying to talk to her or having us go to counseling. How do you prepare her for her participation? She tells me often that she feels overwhelmed and is tired of worrying about making me angry or upset or doing the right thing. I really didn't know that about her and am worried that I am going to stop talking to her altogether and I may have my own love bank depleted. I feel lost.

{myohmy}...<P>Skills in communicating are hard to develop...<BR>...especially ifyou think you can do it all alone.<P>A decent program to consider is <A HREF="http://www.wwme.org/new.html" TARGET=_blank>World Wide Marriage Encounter</A>.<P>A great weekend to build some communication skills in a non-threatening environment.<P>A good weekend away from everything too!<P> <P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A>

Hi Myohmy,<P>It seems to me that you really have to watch the LBs, give her some space, and employ some patience. Time is in your favor...she wants the relationship to heal...you are changing for the better...she has to trust the "new you" for awhile before the changes will take efffect. So adopt a zero tolerance for lovebusters.<P>Also, realize this. You want her to turn to you, look deeply in your eyes, and say she is once again madly in love with you. Hopefully that will happen one day. But that conversation will never be the result of you asking how she feels about the relationship. So realize that those queries are a total lovebuster for her right now....she defines the lovebusters. <P>You may get some insight from this site: <A HREF="http://www.personalitytype.com" TARGET=_blank>www.personalitytype.com</A> <P>It is based on Myers-Briggs personality types, and may help you bridge the gaps between your communication styles. Buy their book 'Just Your Type'.<P>Good luck!<P>Mike

Thank you Mike and Jim,<P>It has been hard enough not being able to talk to someone. I really appreciate you advice and insight. I am the type that like to make sure everyone is happy and try to figure out what is wrong right away and fix it. I guess my patience is my downfall. We have been to a marriage encounter weekend and we both got to really talk or write for that matter. She finally talked to me that weekend. It was only a few years ago that we went. I read our notebooks on how we felt then and see some of the LB's that I have been doing but also see what she wanted to work on and she hasn't. I guess that is why I was so floored and why I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. Now she tells me that she doesn't want that notebook around because it talks about her feelings. It is so hard for her to talk and share. I will read some books on personality types and try to gain some insight on how to backoff. I know she defines the LB's right now, it is just hard knowing what they are. I feel like once I identify them I have already dug a hole deeper because of it. I try to be quiet and not talk to her about ie. how was her night out last night, who went, did you have fun adn so on but it seems to always get turned around on me. When I am quiet she feels like I am in a bad mood which she hates. I feel like just shutting up and not saying anything for fear of withdrawing LB's. She has also made the comment of not wanting to withdraw my emotional needs but also feels like she is screwing up because of all her feelings she is having so I know she feels like she is in a loop. I would rather tell her to not worry about me but to focus on her but then she feels like this is again all her fault when I say something like that. She made the comment yesterday that she got tired of caring and worrying all the time. That is why she is so standoffish. Any thoughts?

First off, myohmy, realize that you can at least recognize that your W is more honest than the average bear in her rapid confession of the EA/PA. So...I think she has some honesty and character, and that is a plus.<P>Before I could give you any real specific insight, it would be great to see those personality profiles. <A HREF="http://www.personalitytype.com" TARGET=_blank>www.personalitytype.com</A> Even if she won't fill the questionaire out, you can probably get pretty close by answering for her.<P>My guess is that your W is sort of like mine...that she felt tremendous guilt for plunging our lives into this mess (my W didn't have any outside relationships, but spiralled into withdrawal, until I brought it to a head last year.) She could see my pain. She didn't want to talk or think about the relationship, because it made her feel guilty. I imagine that your W is feeling that way as well, particularly with the OM involvement.<P>One thing the personalitytype thing taught me was that my W was very closed in revealing feelings. That is just her, not a reflection of anything...it isn't like me, but that doesn't make it wrong or bad. So I accepted that, and that was a huge weight off me....I felt a lot the way you did... It also said to not spring conversations on her...actually, counseling with Steve Harley was good about that, because it gave her a schedule to prepare to talk.<P>If I were you, and you haven't done so, I would print out the EN and LB questionaires and, with a sweet cover note, ask your W to fill them out over the next week, because it would help you. Maybe if you get a good reaction, have her take the personalitytype test as well. <P>Once you have that info, post over on the EN board, there are a lot of people there with specific experiences.<BR>

Hi Mike,<P>I went to the personality site and it pretty much hit it on the head. I thought it was pretty interesting. It hit my wifes personality on the head also. It is very hard to keep trying not to talk to her. She does have a big thing on feeling guilty and I am guessing that may be one of the big problems she is dealing with. Knowing what has happened, who it happened with, how she could have done that, what her feelings are now, etc. I seem to do some type of a LB everyday and don't mean to. It seems it would be better to not say a word at all. She at least says it is not big deal and not to read into it. I am wondering though how much LU I am withdrawing at the time. Any ideas on how to watch what you are saying. Sometimes I feel like screaming! There are times I want to blame her and tell her what I am thinking and feeling, but I know it is not right to do so and that feeling only lasts for a couple of minutes. I am scared to death that while we are going through this that someone else may deposit LU and a worse cycle could happen. Since she has started this graveyard shift she has become more angry, resentful, almost to the point it is uncaring. I take it to heart alot knowing it may just be her being tired. She has never acted like this before since this time. I won't bring up her job again to her since she feels like again it is her fault and I don't see what she is trying to do for our family. That is not it all. I just know she has never acted like this and since this time she has gone a big turn around and I don't know what to do. Any ideas? Thanks!

Hello,<P>I am still bugged about a couple of things. How do I protect my EN's when we go through this? She reacts at times in a negative manner and some of my most important needs are not met. What to do?? Also, one thing that still bugs me. She asked me about a month ago to find out what was making me unhappy and fix it. I sat back and really thought what was making me unhappy. Other than her not being there at night and our arguements that have intensified and become more frequent, nothing other than that. I did realize how I was making other people unhappy around me and I hated it, so I changed. I have read self help books, what I can do to be a better husband and father. Now that I have made some major changes my wife questions how I can do that especially over all the time that was lost. She has gotten more angry, distant, resentful, almost revengeful and questions her feelings now. This did happen after the EA and I don't if this has any affect. After seeing the withdrawing I have been doing over the years I can see the result. It is very hard though that even after she told me she said she was having feelings again, but of course the good ol LB's came up. Only 3 months later did I learn what I was not doing. Now a month later she acts so ticked off at me and doesn't want anything to do with me as far as affection, deep feelings, kissing, sex and so on. She shows me she loves me in the most wonderful ways by taking care of me and does tell me but I don't know if I am pushing too much or/also is it the result of her having the EA and what it is doing to her, does she see me as a fake (it would almost seem better if I went back to the way I was)(she even made that comment once, why are you so nice now, why are you doing everything now, I am not nice to you because of what you do for me - please stop and so on.) Any ideas - please help.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by myohmy:<BR><B>(she even made that comment once, why are you so nice now, why are you doing everything now, I am not nice to you because of what you do for me - please stop and so on.) Any ideas - please help.<BR> </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Myohmy,<P>That is great! You have her attention with your Plan A changes, and you have her confused! <P>Now she will test you....probe to see if it is an act, wondering if she can trust the new you and open up. <P>That is a real sign of progress. You are on the right track.<P>As to your other questions...<P>Basically, you have to forget about your needs when you are in this Plan A situation. Your Giver has to rule, and any appearances by your Taker set you back with your spouse. Hopefully, before your Lovebank is depleted beyond repair, your W will come around, open her heart, and begin to meet some of your needs.<P>As far as the lovebusting...you just have to really change your behavior. Think of your goal as a return to intimacy and getting your needs met. It is down at the other end of the football field. Everytime you meet you W's ENs, you take a step toward it. Everytime you lovebust, you take two steps back. You need to discipline yourself, particularly now, as your W will be testing the new myohmy.<P>What were your personality types? I have the book, I will give you some insights to your exact match. The book is much more indepth than the website.<P>Mike<P>

Mike,<P>We actually had a pretty good lunch. I guess I have to realize that I have been so one sided for so many years I just didn't realize. We talked and solved (I hope) her feeling like she does things wrong. I guess I got upset when she asked me what I was thinking and I told her that it might upset her and I didn't want to do that. She said it was ok. So I explained to her that I enjoy coming home at lunch to see her, actually seeing her at any time during the day is one of my highlights. I told her that she is one of my most favorite things! She got upset that I have never "showed" it. I explained that I understood how she felt. I would interrupt her when she was telling me about her day and come in with a story about how my day went and never went back to hers. What a dope! I had to be firm and tell her how important she is to me and for her to understand what is in my heart not the way I acted. She says ok. Any ideas about this: "Only 3 months later did I learn what I was not doing. Now a month later she acts so ticked off at me and doesn't want anything to do with me as far as affection, deep feelings, kissing, sex and so on." What do you think would make her do such a turn around? She acted or showed like she cared so much even a month ago. Then after she told me what I wasn't fulfilling for her she is going the other way. Very confusing. I am trying to keep hold of her and I guess that is why I said I should have kept acting like a boob. She says she feels angrier. Is it just her letting everything out, her sleep, the EA????? I have a fear that she is not dealing emotionally with the EA and am afraid that she may some day. I also worry about depression. No one else knows about it other than me and I don't think she feels like she is accountable. I asked her what she thought our children would say, or friends, or parents and she got really angry. I am not going to tell anyone but don't really know what it means. I think she feels like I am threatening her but I'm not. I don't want anyone else to know. I want to protect her. Does it mean that she doesn't care about it? I know she feels like it was wrong and has said she knows now what she could have lost but I don't see her actually being very remorseful. Do I wait? Anyway, hope you could shed some insight. Our personality types are mine=ENFP and hers=ISFJ. Thanks again for all your help. Good to hear from someone else.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by myohmy:<BR><B>Now a month later she acts so ticked off at me and doesn't want anything to do with me as far as affection, deep feelings, kissing, sex and so on." What do you think would make her do such a turn around?</B><P>Well, a number of things, only one being an outside relationship. Any suspicions there? <P><B>Anyway, hope you could shed some insight. Our personality types are mine=ENFP and hers=ISFJ.</B><P>lol...well, out of 136 possible personality combinations, you happen to pick the same one as my wife and I. I am ENFP, she is ISFJ.<P>So grab a beer, I can tell you plenty. But I'll have to come back to it, I'm on a deadline right now. <P>This combo is very well represented here at MB, because it is a challenging one. Go to the EN board and put up a post that says "Any ENFP/ISFJ relationshps here?" And you should get some responses. Also, search on those terms and you will find some interesting older threads. I will join that post on EN.<P>Mike <P>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by myohmy:<BR><B>Our personality types are mine=ENFP and hers=ISFJ. Thanks again for all your help. Good to hear from someone else.</B><P>Okay, I'm back, and with a little more time.<P>ENFP/ISFJ. Where do i start. This was such a big help to me, to see my wife's type spelled out in a book, to see out relationship just totally nailed. To realize that being an introvert was just her, not a disease or a handicap. Not something I could or should change. <P>The writeup really had the differneces. For instance, socializing. ENFPs like to have big parties, have a lot of friends, cultivate multiple social circles. That is me to a tee. ISFJ's prefer to spend time aalone with their partenrs, or just alone, or at most with a small group of friends. My wife and I both laughed when we read that...we have been having that fight for years! ENFP's want to party all night, ISFJs want to go home. The book suggests taking two cars to parties so ENFPs can stay on if they want. Again, we had been doing that for years!<P>ISFJs are guareded with their feelings resepct tradiotnal and rituals like the house tidy and neat, are great homemakers.<P>Here is how the books says ENFPs should work to reach their ISFJ partner:<P>1. When you go to a social function preapre her for the people she may meet and what she can expect. Introduce her to people at the event...don't wander away and leave her alone.<P>2. Keep the house tidy and neat, especially common areas.<P>3. Honor the commitments and promises you make, particularly regarding engagements or activities that are important to her.<P>4. Acknowledge the considerate things she does to make your hame a safe, comfortable place.<P>5. Remember anniversaries, birthdays, holidays with practical, useful gifts. <P>6. KEY: Don't spring relationship conversations on ISFJs. They need time to prepare for discussions that involve feelings and emotions.<P>7. Spend quiet time together reading in bed, watching TV, or taking a walk. <P>If you combine this knowledge with the EN and LB questionaire data, you will have a good base of information to Plan your campaign around <P>What worked for my wife was domestic support and family commitment. Literally, I have watched in the space of a weekend her face fall when I gave her a very flashy and expensive diamond anniversary ring, and her face light up when I walked the dog or made dinner, or assumed some other chore that she would have had to do.<P>Amazing, isn't it? <BR>

Good idea about asking about the personality traits. I will do it here soon. As far as any suspicions are concerned. She was very honest with me and upfront the first time so I can only hope to God that she is not hiding anything from me. She doesn't like to talk about that subject very much at all so I really don't like to push it by asking if there is someone else. I asked her to tell me if something happens or changes. She always tells me that she just doesn't want any affection right now from anyone and that includes right now me. If I had to ask I don't even know where to start. I don't want to dig a hole any deeper. One of her issues was me not acting like I trusted her. I don't want to do that again. I don't believe there is anyone but I have also been there before. Any ideas on how to ask? Or how to find out? I really think she is holding back her emotions and won't let them out because I hurt her for so long in the EN department. Her walls are up and I'm swinging a sledgehammer at them. I also think that I bring up the situation way to much and dwell on it along with her EA may be eating at her. I never really thought about this but any ideas on how to get or bring up getting checked for STD's? They did not have intercourse but like I said it came pretty close. It stopped because of him, well you know. Anyway, I welcome suggestions.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by myohmy:<BR><B>She was very honest with me and upfront the first time so I can only hope to God that she is not hiding anything from me.</B><P>Yeah, I would say that this isn't the likely reason here for her being in withdrawal. I would say drop that line of thought. As to STDs...well, it definitely would be shaming her and lovebusting her to ask, but, I never would counsel against safety in that area. I don't know, that is a tough one. <P><B>I really think she is holding back her emotions and won't let them out because I hurt her for so long in the EN department. Her walls are up and I'm swinging a sledgehammer at them.</B><P>I've been right where you are. The problem is, you are swinging at the steel beams instead of the fibreboard. The ENs and the personality type data will give you the roadmap.<P>ISFJs have a totally different perception of what a good spouse is than we ENFPs do. You need to work at it, but I know that you will see rapid results.<P>Remember, opposities attract for a reason. You guys, and me and my wife, make a very effective and powerful team because of all the strengths we bring. But you have to work as a team in order to see then come to fruition. And communication is somethihng that really needs constant attention.<P><BR>Mike<BR>

Hello,<P>When you said "I've been right where you are. The problem is, you are swinging at the steel beams instead of the fibreboard. The ENs and the personality type data will give you the roadmap. ISFJs have a totally different perception of what a good spouse is than we ENFPs do. You need to work at it, but I know that you will see rapid results." How long did it take you and your wife to see results. I know that it will take time it just really hurts not talking to her, not holding her, kissing and so on. One of my most EN's is affection. Her doing that tells me everything is ok. She does so many other things for me though and at times I feel like it is close but then she does something that she always does and walks away. She is always asking if there is anything she could get me or do for me. She will hold my hand if I start it but won't do it herself. I also think that for so long when she was growing up her family was not affectionate, so it is hard for her to do. When she did early on or didn't I would make comments. Now she questions that she did things wrong. I suppose that has alot to do with it. I know it would help so much just to know that there is a hope. I really have to rely on my faith. I will back off on the STD question. When she first told me I was really concerned but did not want her to have to embarrass herself so I didn't ask her to get checked, we just talked about how the yearly visit should happen soon. I believe that she is in withdrawal because of her upbringing, her telling me how upset she is and bitter she feels right now, and that I can't lay it on too thick. That is where she keeps saying that she needs time and to back off. I asked her if I could trust her and for me to not worry and she told me yes I could trust her and for me not to worry. She also feels that she wants that feeling back of always telling guys no, but the EA put a dent in her armor she feels. How can I strenghten it back to where she feels confident and myself too. I know we can do it but don't know how???? She wants to feel committed to us and me again but does not know how to go about doing it. That is what is playing in her mind. How did you break through to your wife? Sounds an awful lot in common. I welcome any ideas you have seeing that you have been in my shoes. Thanks!!!

Another quick question. She has felt emotionally exhausted since this has come out and since she has started her graveyard shift. After she told me of her EA I went through all the stages, she got to a point of not wanting to talk about it saying it brought too many bad memories up, her feelings of how bad she felt and so on. She felt that I could just drop it and let it go, not to keep bringing it up. She gets very upset and defensive if I bring it up now. Not wanting to push her or show her in any way of me not trusting her - how do I ask her in a way if there is anyone else?

e C2[QUOTE]Originally posted by myohmy:<BR><B>How long did it take you and your wife to see results.</B><P>Well....in all honesty, there are so many individual factors involved, that information would be irrelevant to anyone else. We didn't have any outside parties involved. You can read my story in old posts on the EN board. But, here is a quick history:<P>W steadily withdrawing over course of ten year marriage. From about 1992 on, no initiated affection whatsoever from her, although we have regular sex, she is increasingly wooden. November 1999 I start marital counseling secretly on my own. <P>Counselor tells me about MB, and I start posting here in the spring of 2000. Around that time I have a big OK Corral talk with W. W stuns me by saying she had long ago come to the conclusion that we wouldn't stay together, we were too different, she was sure I would eventually leave her, etc. W has self esteem issues, btw. Anyway, I assured her that I loved her, was dedicated to the marriage, etc. Still, major walls up. <P>I launched my own Plan A in April or so, based on our EN and LB questionaires. Basically, we wasted 3-4 months here, because W was not forthcoming on her questionaires, and the information on this website and in the books is not, in my opinion, sufficiently detailed to launch a maximumally effective Plan A.<P>In July, I grew frustrated at lack of results, and hectored by a few board denizens such as K, began counseling with Steve Harley. We had 6-8 session in August and September. These were extremely effective...basically, I had been way off on my Plan A, and my W hadn't really understood the concept, so my lovebank deposits were, in Steve's words, getting pennies on the dollar. Withdrawn spouses usually are resistant to being "educated" by their spouses, and that is where the phone counseling with Steve really helped. We also made some major breakthroughs in understanding each other, and in understanding Plan A.<P>All that said, my W is intensely private, and was also consumed with guilt over the whole fact that we were in marriage counseling. In October she begged off future counseling, saying she understood now, and saw the path, and felt she was on track.<P>This was proably the lowest moment for me...I was out of gas, had worked for nearly a year on the marriage (although most of it off track). I reacted poorly to this development...I was ready to throw in the towel. To my W's credit, at this point she really stepped up her efforts to meet my needs.<P>Since then, things have steadily improved. Our marriage now is better than it has ever been, even better than at the beginning. <P>Now, to answer your question, that was a long time, nearly a year, until I really began to be happy with the relationship. But we had a lot of baggage, 10 years of emotional boycott, my W approaching sexual aversion, and her personality being very shy and private.<P>To anyone in this situation, I would say that getting into counseling with the Harleys early on is key, even if it is done solo. Your spouse understanding the concept of what you are trying to do is key. I also think that people that read the website here or the books and launch into their own campaign always seem to overweight the ENs, probably in hopes of getting their own met. LBs, I think, are much more important to stop. <P>I think your W's biggest LBs are your suspicions and baggage from her EA. I think she is probably wondering is you will ever get over it, and if she can live with the guilt and suspicion she feels from you. If I were you, when the moment is right, I would make a pledge to her to drop the subject forever. This is in Harley's writings somewhere.<P>Most importantly, even if it is just you for one hour, talk to Steve Harley and get on the right track with your plan, so you don't waste time and effort. Everyone only has so much of those resources.<P>This is long and rambling. I hope you get something out of it.<P>Mike<P>

Well, we had a big talk at lunch today. I feel like I screw up daily with her. Our conversations always seem to turn to a sore point with her and they become LB's. We talked about her having feelings for anyone else. She says no and I believe her. She tells me though that she can't give me a guarantee though that it won't happen again. She tells me that she gave that guarantee to me once and she broke her promise. I tried telling her that while we are going through this that I am terrified that something might happen again. She feels very confused about her emotions and feelings. I was stupid though and asked her how her night out was with her friends. I told her that I am still rebuilding my trust and so I asked her if anything happened. She says no nothing did. She was just out with her friends having fun. Me bringing that up though really upset her. She made the comment that I have been down lately and kinds moping around. It is very hard to go through this without talking to her, fixing things, seeing a counselor and so on. It is hard to keep up the appearance that everything is fine and dandy on my end. We got into how her feelings have been vacating her for a while over the last 10 years and says that she has been working on them internally. I told her that it was fine her doing that but at some point did we ever go to a counselor, read books, work on things together, see a physician (big thing that she does not have an active libido)(wants one but it doesn't happen, at least not with me) and so on. She wants to get back the feeling of caring to work on things. Then she feels like we could progress but is also worried that it may not come back for some time. I don't know what to do. I still feel like she has some tremendous guilt about the EA, and that may be affecting her to. I think she feels like she lost alot of her values, morals, perceptions, her guarantees and so on. I wish I could give them back to her. I tell her it's possible and get frustrated that I am ready to work on it and she is not.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by myohmy:<BR><B>I tell her it's possible and get frustrated that I am ready to work on it and she is not.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Did you read my post above?<P>It would be nice if she would dive in with relish to work on marriage counseling, but she isn't going to, because she is in withdrawal, like many of the spouses of people who post here. So, you have to realize that in the near term, any progress that is going to be made will have to come from you, alone. And that is fine, there is plenty to be done, easy, obvious low-hanging fruit:<P>Quit "moping around" in her words, it is a lovebuster. Why would she want to commit to a life with a mopey mate? Be fun.<P>Quit asking her about the relationship, it is a lovebuster. AND you aren't going to like what you hear, because she is in withdrawal. So let it be.<P>Quit acting suspicious, it is a lovebuster. It seems to me that your W is a moral, honest woman who made one mistake and confessed it to you. She is wracked with guilt, and you are twisting the knife daily. There may come the day that she can nolonger live with the guilt and the suspicion, and that is why she can't committ. You HAVE to REMOVE that if your marriage is going to heal.<P>Yes, all of the above is "very hard" as you say. Plan A ain't for wimps, as the saying goes around here. <P>You have plenty to work on, get on it!<P>Mike