<B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>No, I mean like having the power to take action...knowing you will be satisified one way or the other.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>NO. It is just that the man's brain gets flooded with hormones that make him feel great!<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>If it was something you didn't really want, then how is it something that 'worked' for you?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Uh. Well it seemed to deaden the pain - for a time. But it always brought shame and guilt and ultimately left me without what I really ached for and that was a satisfying relationship with my wife. I did this for years SD. I have been the weakest person and I suspect there are millions of men just like me. They are waiting for their wives to come on to them and they never do. Consequently I was left feeling absolutely worthless! That she wanted all of me EXCEPT that! Of course she would say that is not true but actions do speak even though her heart may not be feeling that way.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>...sometimes when my husband 'leaves things alone' for too long I begin to mistakenly feel as though he doesn't want me. A little 'catch 22' there.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I read (I think Harley) that women who have sex often want it more and men who have sex more often want it less. How about that for a catch-22? I know when I have sex I don't feel nearly the pain of lust that I do when I have failed or been rejected. When I have been rejected and things haven't been working out between us at home, those women I see at Target and other places seem just so much more attractive. This is the reminder I guess, huh?<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>And how do you communicate that?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Usually I feel like a boob when it comes to initiating sex with my wife. What do I do? What do I say? It's crazy. <P>

<B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Well it seemed to deaden the pain - for a time. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Are there any other things you've found that deaden the pain? ie: non-physical intimacy<BR>Is your wife open to other forms of intimacy?<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>I read (I think Harley) that women who have sex often want it more and men who have sex more often want it less. How about that for a catch-22? <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sigh...if only we could find that middle ground.<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Usually I feel like a boob when it comes to initiating sex with my wife. What do I do? What do I say? It's crazy. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know for me subtle is best.<BR>If my husband comes at me all hands and mouth my initial response is to push him away - whether I was in the mood or not. But when he's sensitive and gentle, and gives me time to have my mood catch up to his...WITHOUT pushing I can be much more responsive. (provided my head doesn't get in the way first.)

You know? I can sense a real soft spot you have for him.

So it shows huh? <P>Some days I think I might be an idiot...volunteering to go through so much for something I'm not sure of...But I do still love him.

I have a question? How old are your kids? Do you think your husband feels in competition with them for your time?

The kids are 1 & 3. Both Boys.<P>I know that he has certainly felt that way in the past - our first was a colicy baby, and certainly took his fair share of my time and energy. <BR>Joe wasn't around much when our second was born - he was away working up north...so I'm pretty sure it wasn't much of an issue then.<P>As for now, I'm honestly not sure. I haven't asked.<BR>Given that the kids are a little older, and have fairly regular schedules, we do have time for eachother, but out of necessity when the kids are up and busy we each have to take a back seat in favor of their needs. <BR>It hasn't been a problem for me terribly often, but I'll have to check with my husband to see where he's at.

Your temperament must be able to juggle everything. You said you were a D so I can understand that.<P>I know that for YEARS I had the biggest problem in getting my wife to draw boundaries to not allow the children to dominate OUR time. I remember I would work late a lot and every night I would come home she would be asleep in one of their beds after reading a book to them. This got to be so bad that I finally told her that I wish she could stay up so we could talk when I got home. So, she did quit.<P>I have in the past viewed our children as a hindrance to our sex life and intimacy in general. On top of that she told me the number one thing I could do to love her was to love her children. Ouch! I do love them. They are mine too. But, it was like I had to prove something.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>Your temperament must be able to juggle everything. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> </B><BR>I'm ok until try to juggle too much and the stress of it hits...at that point I usually crack and have a 'hissy fit' - but I'm getting better at knowing what my limits are, so it doesn't happen as often as it used to.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>every night I would come home she would be asleep in one of their beds after reading a book to them. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> </B><BR>That sort of thing has never happened often in our house...occassionaly, but not often.<BR>We've always tried to make habbits of waiting up for one another if one of us is out or working late.<BR>We also try to make a point of going to bed at the same time.<BR>The kids are usually in bed by 9...and after that the house is generally quiet, but we don't always spend the time together. Often we'll just sit in front of the TV, and hardly visit at all - other times we'll sit and talk for hours...especially now.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>I have in the past viewed our children as a hindrance to our sex life and intimacy in general. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> </B><P>This has been an issue for us too...I can't tell you how many times the kids have interrupted or totally prevented intimate encounters.<BR>We've never stopped ourselves from being affectionate in front of them though...we even have 'family cuddles' where the 4 of us sit together in a heap on the sofa watching a movie for the kids.<BR>They seem to love it, and it gives my husband and I a chance to share a little affection too.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR> On top of that she told me the number one thing I could do to love her was to love her children. Ouch! I do love them. They are mine too. But, it was like I had to prove something.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That sounds like avoidance - almost as if she was asking you to direct your attention towards them INSTEAD of her.<BR>Have you talked much about that one?<BR>

Talk for hours? See there you do love him!<P>Yes we have talked about that one. Has a lot to do with her feeling unwanted as a child and feeling like a farm-hand. Mother had a nervous breakdown that lasted for 9 years while she was a little kid until she was 16. So, I think there was a lot of past haunts involved there.<P>What she doesn't understand is why I feel anger toward the kids when they get in our way. Yes that is a normal thing. But sometimes! <P>I handle it much better than I used to and so does she. She and I both are stern about having our door closed so we can just talk at times.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>Talk for hours? See there you do love him!<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You're right...I do, but it takes so much more to make a relationship WORK...I still wonder if we have what it takes.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR> Has a lot to do with her feeling unwanted as a child and feeling like a farm-hand. Mother had a nervous breakdown that lasted for 9 years while she was a little kid until she was 16. So, I think there was a lot of past haunts involved there.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Are you saying that she overcompensates?<BR>What have you done as a couple to try and resolve those feelings?<BR>Has she forgiven her mother?<BR>How many other children were in her family?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>What she doesn't understand is why I feel anger toward the kids when they get in our way. Yes that is a normal thing. But sometimes! <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>As a mother, I'd have to say that I'd have trouble understanding that kind of anger also - we women seem to have infinate patience where our children are concerned.<BR>It's easier I think, for us to wait until the kids are out of the house or asleep, to spend one on one time with our spouses. <BR>The most I feel towards the kids in terms of negative emotion would be frustration when they don't behave the way I'd like them to, or when they just get to be a 'mitt full'.<P>How old are your children?<BR>

My children are 8 and 5. Yes she has forgiven her mother and father. She has worked through a LOT of her anger. Not nearly as angry of a person as she used to be.<P>Check this out. Last night we went to church. Sat close together. Enjoyed watching our 5 year old boy sing in church. Went home. Got in bed. She was flirty and kissing me and all. Smiling. Then I noticed she throttled back on her 'interest'. So I figured she just wanted to be close and not have sex. So, I backed off. Then she said, "You REALLY love that night light on don't you?" <P>We have this night light in the wall. 5 watts or so. Tiny thing. But it is enough to keep me from stumbling around in the dark when I get up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. Or when I wake up in the morning because I always get up first and it is always dark. So, yes I like the night light.<P>I said, "You have such a narrow allowance for when we can have sex. Only when it is totally dark."<P>She said I did to. And I said, "I don't have to have the lights off."<P>"I guess you would rather have a light on than have me then," she said. To which I replied, "If it has to be that way everytime - Yes."<P>Everytime. It has to be the same way. What gives?<P>BTW - What do you mean when you say you wonder if you have what it takes to make your marriage WORK? What does WORK mean?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> <BR>Then I noticed she throttled back on her 'interest'. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>So...the nightlight was a 'trigger' causing her to think of something that made her feel uncomfortable about being intimate - What is that something?<BR>It sounds to me like she needs to resolve whatever that issue is before she'll be ok to try things with the lights on - or anything different for that matter.<BR>The positive thing is that she did initiate...it's a beginning.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> <BR>I said, "You have such a narrow allowance for when we can have sex. Only when it is totally dark."<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That was a bit of a 'Love Buster' don't you think?<BR>IMO...if you had said something like 'Sure, I like the nightlight...but I certainly don't need it now' maybe things would have ended on a more positive note.<P>I know it bothers you to have it dark all the time, but it sounds like that's something she is needing right now - could you not make a temporary allowance for that, perhaps with the understanding that it will be a goal to work towards something different in the future?<BR>A little less pressure could help to make her feel more open...at least that's the way it works for me.<P>What about a compromise...a candle maybe?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> <BR>BTW - What do you mean when you say you wonder if you have what it takes to make your marriage WORK? What does WORK mean?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>For me, a marriage that works is one where both parties feel loved, fulfilled, happy, committed, open, honest and understood. (with of course the understanding that there are good and bad days)<BR>Our marriage seems to be severely lacking in most of those areas right now. I realize that is probably very normal under the circumstances, but given the way things have been between us lately, I wonder if we as a couple have the ability to attain that kind of relationship.<BR>There are soooo many road blocks - I'm not sure we have the tools to tear them down.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoDuped:<BR>[/b]That was a bit of a 'Love Buster' don't you think?<BR>IMO...if you had said something like 'Sure, I like the nightlight...but I certainly don't need it now' maybe things would have ended on a more positive note.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sure. Could have. But, EVERY other time this has happened (and there have been several) I have gotten up and unplugged it. So this was not the first time it happened. I guess my thinking is "If she will not make love with ANY light on, then my chances of having sex anywhere but here in the bed at night are pretty nil." This is so boring to me.<P>She did tell me that her counselor and she talked about sexual triggers the other day. That she has them. Remember my story about putting up the wall blocks and she felt defensive because I wanted sex? She talked with him about that and she feels she should keep going to him.<P>Well, I don't know why it has to be the same way every singel time. That's all. Not very exciting.<P>

That's a tough one Dogbert...without knowing your wife I can only say how I can relate to the situation.<BR>I empathize with you though. For a man like you, I can see how this would be an agonizing situation.<P>I have a slightly off the wall suggestion...please take it lightly.<P>Would your wife consider wearing a blindfold?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoDuped:<BR><B>I empathize with you though. For a man like you, I can see how this would be an agonizing situation.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What do you mean, "man like you?" I have agonized (very accurate word) over this for 13 years. I FINALLY see movement.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Would your wife consider wearing a blindfold?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL! I wish! That would be cool!<P>

By 'man like you' I mean that you seem to be a strong 'sensing type' as opposed to an 'intuitive'.<BR>You express yourself, and connect with your wife, strongly on the sexual level. <BR>Because of the scope of emotions you feel and need to express, to be with your wife the same way each time limits the degree of that expression making it less satisfying.<BR>Over the course of 10 years that can become a very frustrating thing. <BR>All of a sudden, when you finally see progress, it is very possible to find that even more frustrating - since you see a small change the instinctive response is to want the rest to follow more quickly.<P>Just a stab in the dark, but how does that sit with you?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoDuped:<BR><B>Just a stab in the dark, but how does that sit with you?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I think you could be correct. I feel I am having to keep at bay my anger and hurt over all this. <P>

Hi guys<P>DOGBERT:<BR>The candle sounds like a good idea for improvision. OR: maybe you could try to find out why she doesn't like the lights on. Maybe she feels vulnerable, or she doesn't feel beautiful - any number of things.<P>If that's the case, maybe you could gently coax her to leave the nightlight on and you do the initiating. <P>Then with little kisses to various parts of her, you could tell her that she's beautiful to you. For example if you kiss her eyelids, tell her that you love her eyes and the way that they express her feelings. Or you kiss her hands and tell her you like how soft they are. You know, things like that. But you have to mean it or she will know that you're saying it for saying sake. Women sense these things.<P>It's just an idea. Let us know if you try it and if it works.<P>ALL THE BEST <P>------------------<BR>CPL

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Caribgirl:<BR><B>she doesn't feel beautiful - any number of things.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>She is beautiful. That can't be it.<P>

I don't mean she ISN'T beautiful. Maybe she just doesn't FEEL that way. I know people who are absolutely gorgeous or they are a wizard at what they do, but they just don't perceive themselves that way. If that's not it, then I suggest that you dig gently, but deeply to find out what it is.<P>Maybe one day she'll open up and tell you what it is. I do hope you find out and will be able to help her.<P>Good luck <P>------------------<BR>CPL