Is it cheating when you find out that your husband of 10 months is emailing and calling an old friend? She lives in Florida and is married with one child and one on the way. The calls are around MIDNIGHT and the emails (after some snooping) say things like "what I wouldn't give to . . . touch you again" and things of that nature. In the emails things were said like "my husband works from 9 until the am so you can call around 10." My husband is a flirt, no doubt, but these things seem much more serious and are not of the flirting nature. What do you think? I have already confronted him but am having a hard time believing that this contact was innocent. Help me understand why!

Welcome <B>wd5600</B>...<P>There is a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P><B>About your post</B>...<P>Yes...<BR>...your H is cheating!!!<P>If he is doing anything to offend you...<BR>...sexual or not...<BR>...with a member of the opposite sex... it has to stop!<BR>...for the sake of the marriage.<P>Do start on a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...<BR>Check out my post <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000176.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.)</A>.<P>And read the following books!<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank> "Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_needs.html" TARGET=_blank> "His Needs, Her Needs"</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6010_give.html" TARGET=_blank> "Give & Take: The Secret to Marital Compatibility"</A><P>Start counseling ASAP...<BR>I would recommend that you have a couple of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> (~$95US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A> or Jennifer Harley. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A> (888-639-1639)!<P> <P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A>

I have already confronted my husband about it and I could tell in his VOICE that it was more than just innocent flirting, yet he said it was innocent and he would never do anything to hurt me, yet I still feel hurt. This just happened yesterday and I have never felt so horrible. My heart hurts. How long does the healing process take? Also, I am obsessively checking his email (I found out his password) I need to stop this before I can even think about rebuilding my trust. Where do I go from here and when will the tears stop flowing?

wd5600<BR>I'm very sorry for the pain you are going through. I just found out about 4 weeks ago that my wife of 10 years has done something very similar. I found an e-chat that she had with a former co-worker where she said that she loved him, missed him and his hugs and kisses and needed to see him and touch him. This was only 2 weeks after they were both laid off from the company. The other man is also married with kids and slightly older than my wife. I confronted her and was told that she thought she was in live with him at one point and that they were good friends and that yes they hugged and kissed. We have a problem with communication and she was really clamming up on me on this issue. We have not spoken about this since I found out and I am not really sure if she is still in contact with him. She said they did not have an affair although they thought about it, but decided that they couldn't because os their situations. I, too, have been checking her computer use and she hasn't really done anything for the last 4 weeks. She sent him a generic e-card for his birthday. That was it. I got her cell bill and there were calls, but the cut off date for the billing period was the day I confronted her, so I'll have to wait until the next bill arrives to see if they have stopped. <P>I wish I could help you understand why this happened. I wrote my wife a long letter asking her to forgive my shortcomings and forgive me for failing her in the past. I told her that I never intended for us to grow apart and I never intended to drive her into the arms of another. She never acknowledged my letter, but things seem to be getting better between us. Things had been going badly for some years now. I know how your heart feels as mine still aches. I can understand the checking his e-mail. You have been betrayed and he will not give you the information that you need and you are determined to get it any way that you can. My anxiety attacks are less frequent now and I pray about 4-5 times aday. <P>Although my wife and I have not spoken about this I would suggest, if you can get him to talk, that you start by asking him what emotional needs of his were not being met by you. Does he need more affection? or maybe more re-assurance from you. It sounds like there is a major communication problem(I know this first hand)since he is able to share with others and not you. It sucks that our significant others have communication problems with us but seem to be able to tell others anything. I guess they feel threatened that we may not accept them or maybe we try to gloss over their problems in an effort to ease their pain. I don't know, I'm no counselor. Yes the tears will ease, but I don't think they will ever stop. I cry at the drop of a hat. At one point a couple of weeks ago we were watching a movie and there was a scene where the woman cheated on her husband and I had to leave the room. I went to the washroom and was heaving from the thoughts that were going through my mind. I think my wife heard all of this but she never said anything.<P>I would love to get an apology from her and an assurance that this contact has ceased and that she wants to commit herself to re-building our marriage. It sounds as if this is what you want from your husband. I am too weak at this point to ask for these things. I am very afraid of the answers. Things seem to be getting better, but my mind keeps putting together all sorts of scenarios that I don't like to think of. I keep waiting for the day when she announces that it is over and that she is leaving me to be with the other man. It's the uncertainty that kills me. I do love her still and I do forgive all of the pain, I just want us to be happy. I have not told the other mans wife, have you told the other womans husband? <P>I use the word "man" loosely here as I really think this guy is the scum of the earth. At the end here is a post that I put on another chat board in response to a woman who was looking for a justification for her cheating on her husband with another married man. This is all still very fresh for me so all that I can tell you is to get some rest, eart some small meals(yes, the infidelity diet can help you shed some pounds, but you need to keep up your strength), pray, alot, and keep posting here, it does help to read. <P>I hope you can find happiness<P>brknheart<P><BR>This is the response I placed on the other board<P>I Can't Believe<BR>Posted by Gray130 on Fri, 9 Mar 2001, in response to Give feedback good or bad, posted by madison on Mon, 19 Feb 2001 <BR>I can't believe I didn't vomit while I was reading your post. My wife was also involved with someone from work. Do you honestly believe that it is only he and you involved here? What about the wife? What about co-workers, friends, and family? Affairs are always aggresive and pursuit oriented. It's the forbidden fruit, but remember that once you've had the forbidden fruit it loses it's allure. <BR>I suggest you tell his wife what has been going on and then see if he continues to pursue you or if he runs with his tail between his legs. This type of man is a gutless, spineless, pathetic excuse and you are trailing as a close second. There are 5 billion of us on this planet and you can't seem to find 1 that isn't already committed to someone else? Have some self respect and some respect for others and end this and never, I mean NEVER, go after someone elses spouse. If you don't break with him, do you really think that you might have a future with him? How long before you start to wonder where he is really going on those business trips? You get what you deserve in this life, so plan accordingly. <BR>Gray 130<P>

It's amazing some of things that you said - very similiar to my situation - it all started with his cell phone bill. We receive a corporate discount and I have been waiting for mine to show up on my bill and so I checked his bill to see if the discount had shown up on his bill and it had, but so had several calls between him and Florida at very late hours. The calls were lengthy too. This made me wonder and I started snooping. I didn't eat yesterday after I found out, I barely kept what was in my stomach in my stomach!!! Thank you for your kind words, believe it or not it does help to know that there are other people out there going through the same thing, although I wish no one ever had to go through this. Thank you again. Only time can heal. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brknheart:<BR><B>wd5600<BR>I'm very sorry for the pain you are going through. I just found out about 4 weeks ago that my wife of 10 years has done something very similar. I found an e-chat that she had with a former co-worker where she said that she loved him, missed him and his hugs and kisses and needed to see him and touch him. This was only 2 weeks after they were both laid off from the company. The other man is also married with kids and slightly older than my wife. I confronted her and was told that she thought she was in live with him at one point and that they were good friends and that yes they hugged and kissed. We have a problem with communication and she was really clamming up on me on this issue. We have not spoken about this since I found out and I am not really sure if she is still in contact with him. She said they did not have an affair although they thought about it, but decided that they couldn't because os their situations. I, too, have been checking her computer use and she hasn't really done anything for the last 4 weeks. She sent him a generic e-card for his birthday. That was it. I got her cell bill and there were calls, but the cut off date for the billing period was the day I confronted her, so I'll have to wait until the next bill arrives to see if they have stopped. <P>I wish I could help you understand why this happened. I wrote my wife a long letter asking her to forgive my shortcomings and forgive me for failing her in the past. I told her that I never intended for us to grow apart and I never intended to drive her into the arms of another. She never acknowledged my letter, but things seem to be getting better between us. Things had been going badly for some years now. I know how your heart feels as mine still aches. I can understand the checking his e-mail. You have been betrayed and he will not give you the information that you need and you are determined to get it any way that you can. My anxiety attacks are less frequent now and I pray about 4-5 times aday. <P>Although my wife and I have not spoken about this I would suggest, if you can get him to talk, that you start by asking him what emotional needs of his were not being met by you. Does he need more affection? or maybe more re-assurance from you. It sounds like there is a major communication problem(I know this first hand)since he is able to share with others and not you. It sucks that our significant others have communication problems with us but seem to be able to tell others anything. I guess they feel threatened that we may not accept them or maybe we try to gloss over their problems in an effort to ease their pain. I don't know, I'm no counselor. Yes the tears will ease, but I don't think they will ever stop. I cry at the drop of a hat. At one point a couple of weeks ago we were watching a movie and there was a scene where the woman cheated on her husband and I had to leave the room. I went to the washroom and was heaving from the thoughts that were going through my mind. I think my wife heard all of this but she never said anything.<P>I would love to get an apology from her and an assurance that this contact has ceased and that she wants to commit herself to re-building our marriage. It sounds as if this is what you want from your husband. I am too weak at this point to ask for these things. I am very afraid of the answers. Things seem to be getting better, but my mind keeps putting together all sorts of scenarios that I don't like to think of. I keep waiting for the day when she announces that it is over and that she is leaving me to be with the other man. It's the uncertainty that kills me. I do love her still and I do forgive all of the pain, I just want us to be happy. I have not told the other mans wife, have you told the other womans husband? <P>I use the word "man" loosely here as I really think this guy is the scum of the earth. At the end here is a post that I put on another chat board in response to a woman who was looking for a justification for her cheating on her husband with another married man. This is all still very fresh for me so all that I can tell you is to get some rest, eart some small meals(yes, the infidelity diet can help you shed some pounds, but you need to keep up your strength), pray, alot, and keep posting here, it does help to read. <P>I hope you can find happiness<P>brknheart<P><BR>This is the response I placed on the other board<P>I Can't Believe<BR>Posted by Gray130 on Fri, 9 Mar 2001, in response to Give feedback good or bad, posted by madison on Mon, 19 Feb 2001 <BR>I can't believe I didn't vomit while I was reading your post. My wife was also involved with someone from work. Do you honestly believe that it is only he and you involved here? What about the wife? What about co-workers, friends, and family? Affairs are always aggresive and pursuit oriented. It's the forbidden fruit, but remember that once you've had the forbidden fruit it loses it's allure. <BR>I suggest you tell his wife what has been going on and then see if he continues to pursue you or if he runs with his tail between his legs. This type of man is a gutless, spineless, pathetic excuse and you are trailing as a close second. There are 5 billion of us on this planet and you can't seem to find 1 that isn't already committed to someone else? Have some self respect and some respect for others and end this and never, I mean NEVER, go after someone elses spouse. If you don't break with him, do you really think that you might have a future with him? How long before you start to wonder where he is really going on those business trips? You get what you deserve in this life, so plan accordingly. <BR>Gray 130<P> </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Dear wd5600,<P>Yes, your husband is cheating. And he is being extremely disrespectful to you by dismissing your feelings of being hurt. <P>The POJA (Policy of Joint Agreement) found on this site is very clear: Don't do anything unless both you and your spouse enthusiastically agree. I have never had the opportunity to practice this with my absent H, but it's a really good principle for a marriage. <P>If what he is doing hurts you, then it's not good for the marriage. If he continues to do it after you've told him of your feelings, he is being disrespectful. <P>You and he need to get into counseling. And, by they way, you ARE NOT overreacting. Your H is trying to justify his behaviour by saying it's all innocent. You have the written proof (e-mails) that it's not....HELLO!?!?!?<P>I would suggest a phone appt. with Dr. Harley as NSR mentions. He could really be of help to you.<P>I wish you the best. You have a chance to nip this in the bud before it becomes a full-blown affair (physical). I hope that can happen for you.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

Yes, I would call it cheating...or at least a very definite path to it. You ask what to do....you get out your phone book and you begin searching for a qualified marriage and family therapist and get there asap. If your husband won't go with you, go alone, but get into counseling. <P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

wd5600:<P>You have my complete empathy here. If you want to read what happens to someone who spends not weeks but months snooping and digging for clues, read "Between Suspicion and Proof...a Void."<BR>It is almost impossible, once you start reading e-mails, phonebills, eavesdropping, etc. to stop. As my story states, I became obsessed with looking for evidence that would tell me more about my BF's betrayal. This obsessive behaviour began for me after, like you, my partner denied the betrayal. I felt helpless, like I had no recourse but to start playing Sherlock Holmes. I didn't realize that it takes time and patience, not snooping, to bring about a discussion where you can be truthful with one another.<P>You are in a very painful process. You are to be congratulated for surviving every day that you make it through this next little while. In other words, "If you're going to go through hell, it's best to keep going".<P>You have found reasonable indications that something is fishy. You have approached your husband. From this point, no amount of new "clues" will bring change into your relationship. The change has to come from conversations between you and him. Don't give up on him. Have conversatons with him frequently, on any number of topics. Reassure him that you love him and want to hear what he has to say. Remind him that you want to meet his needs, and have him meet yours, in an honest,open lifestyle. When the time is right, you can re-introduce your feelings about this "friend". He can then consider what he is doing and evaluate it's impact on you, the person he loves.<P>Like you, the only way I will find out the whole truth will be to ask in a loving manner again, and, on one of these given days, the truth will come out. Snooping will never tell you what your partner is thinking and feeling about the betrayal, or what the two of you should do next - only communication can do that.<P>As of today, I have had 3 days of no snooping. It is hard!! Even though things are unresolved and I must continue communicating with my partner to learn my own truth, I feel more at peace.<P>So trust me, excessive snooping only makes the pain worse and the puzzle more confusing. I encourage you to speak with your husband again in the future, and to be positive. Only dialogue can really solve this, snooping won't do it for you. <P>Best of luck, be brave and use that strong girl inside you!<P>Robyn<P><BR>