HI, Everyone...<BR>Well, it's been almost a week since I posted my original message (How do you get him to admit an affair?), and I've read and read and READ until my eyes are ready to pop out! The advice and concern found here at this site are like an oaisis in the desert named "Unfaithful." Now, here is a new question that I'd like to see some opinions/advice on:<P>We have stopped battling. I have taken this new approach which is one of extreme quietness. Since he would not admit to an EA or PA (I'm not sure which he had, really), it seemed that the more I pushed the topic, the worse things got. Neither one of us needed another sleepless night spent in yelling, blaming, etc. Also, I've been as busy as a bee getting things set up for me, in case there is going to be a permanent split. This helped to take my mind off of pity or sorrow and gave me something to shoot for. I am sure he has noticed a change in ME, as I catch him looking at me now and then. His head quickly turns away if our eyes meet, as if to say, "I wasn't really looking at you." He has started to be more open, such as leaving his brief case, and all sorts of things, here in the house, instead of locked up in his car. I haven't touched a thing, just in case he is baiting me. <P>My question is this: what if he had an EA or PA, and it's over (or, let's say he's considering ending it) and he wants us to continue..without getting it "all out in the open." Is this a good idea?? There are so many unanswered questions that I have, and truly, I don't know if I am ready to hear the answers. Or, is this period just a quiet before the storm and I should not let my guard down? So far, he has made NO romantic gestures towards me at all, but it's just this quiet period that we are experiencing that is throwing me. He seems more attentive towards me, but nowhere like the way things used to be. It's almost as if he is seeing me as a person for the first time in a very long time. Has anyone else ever experienced this?<P>Any hints, suggestions, answers? I would appreciate them!<BR>Hugs to all..<BR>Windancer

Hi all,<BR>This is my first time ever to post a message anywhere. I am a little nervous. I have a dilema that has made me feel that I need some assistance. A few weeks ago I heard 2 messages on my H's cell phone from a co-worker. She did not identify herself, but I know her and her voice. She said in one message that she had been shopping the previous day with a friend and she turned off her cell phone because she thought my H would call her and she needs to be careful around that friend. She then said that she had to work that day and she would keep her cell phone in her pocket so that he could call her. It was a Sunday, which is normally our family day. She then asked about a procedure that he had on his back the week before and said that if it didn't help she had some "ideas on how to make it feel better." I could tell in her voice in both messages that she likes my H for more than just a friend. I confronted my H about these messages and he denied any wrong doing, of course. After much talk and crying he mostly convinced me. I told him to tell her never to call again and that they could no longer talk at work (he has changed deparments) or I would call her husband and tell him all I found. He said that he did this. I know that I have no way of monitoring this since they work at the same place. There is also another night that he has never accounted for in my opinion. It was a few months ago and he called me around 8:00 p.m. saying that there was a big traffic jam. After 4 hours of not being able to reach him, my mom came over to watch our children and let me go look for him. I went all the way to the hospital where he works and never saw any sign of him. Around 1:30 a.m. he called (I was still driving) and said he had assisted in a big accident (he is in the medical profession) and lost track of time and had left his cell phone in his car. I didn't see any sign of an accident, but dropped it after a while. I have never been comfortable with the account of that night. A few weeks later he went out and bought me a huge diamond ring because "he loves me so much." He is gone today golfing for 2 days with some buddies and I looked through one of his day planners. He wrote his name in the front and she wrote "sex fiend" with an arrow pointing to his name. I know her writing because I have a home business and she has purchased things from me before. <BR>The thing that confuses me is that he does not act differently toward me. I have been reading all of the posts about the "fog" and men not acting the same toward their W's. This is not the case here. My H is still very loving toward me and our children (we have 2 young children). We have been going out on more dates and are planning a vacation by ourselves in 2 months. I am sure you can see that I want to believe him, but also do not want to be a fool. He still wants to have sex (can I say that?) with me often. Other than the things I have found, there would seem to be no indications of an A. I guess I would like some educated opinions as whether or not to believe him.

Window wrote:<BR>>>She then asked about a procedure that he had on his back the week before and said that if it didn't help she had some "ideas on how to make it feel better." I could tell in her voice in both messages that she likes my H for more than just a friend. >><P>Hiya, Window!<BR>I just HAD to respond to this! I dont' mean to cast any aspersions on your H, but here's my tale, which is different from yours but has one same, key element:<P>My hubby started acting like a robot to me last summer. No interest at all in sex with me, and it felt like I was a non-entity in his life all of a sudden. He had moved to our new home in a new city about 3 months before this, and I was to follow in Sept. I was recovering from major surgery and also doing all of the work, sorting, packing, etc., of our things for "the big move." Key clue that I missed at the time: he did as little as possible to help me, even tho we had pre-planned his trips home on the weekends, which eventually became non-existant. Duh!!!<P>Anyway, once I did make the move, things went from bad to worse. He was downright cruel to me--COLD doesn't begin to describe it! He avoided me as much as possible and started working double shifts, and still is to this day. (this fact is true, verified by yours truly). I knew that something was terribly wrong, then one day quite by accident, I found a letter from a friend of ours to him. Female, fellow martial arts student, she was quite clearly head over heels for my H. What was worse, her letter showed that they had been having some sort of relationship, and as far as I could tell, mostly via the phone. However, she works in a part of the city where he has to travel to a lot. So....??who knows??<P>When confronted with the letter, he actually denied ever having seen it before! Of course, he denied everything and this led to many a night-long screaming match battle between us. The horrible things he said to me cut me to the bone, and most of them had no basis in reality. He dragged up stuff years and years old and colored them to fit 'his' opinion. (I learned by coming to this site that that's called 'justification') I cried an ocean of tears, went through a horrible period of anger and depression, and all this was only 4 months ago. In truth, he started acting funny 4 months before that but I missed all of those clues.<P>Like your H, he had periods of time he couldn't account for, either. Or at least, his explanations didn't add up. All I know is this, Window...he is having, or has had, some kind of EA at the minimum with this woman. I have yet to tell her husband and am not sure that I should. Although, I did threaten my H with telling the OW's H. He seemed to calm down a tad after that one. To this very day, he still hasn't admitted to any wrongdoing, but I know in my gut that he is NOT the same person I fell in love with, lived with for all these years and so on. Un unh! <P>Good luck to you and I hope your worst fears are groundless, but if they are true, then hang on. It's a horrible ride...<P>Windancer<P>

Dear Windancer,<P>Thank you for the reply. I am sorry for all that has happened to you. I truly hope that things get better. <P>Right now is hard because I cannot even talk to him. I am not a patient person. I am now considering calling the OW not her H. I want to confront her with how many lives she is threatening to ruin. If it really is just a flirtation, she needs to remember that this is about more than just her and my H. There are two very sweet little boys who's world would never be the same. I may call her in a little while. <P>Take care,<BR>Window

Window:<P> Bingo!! Your husband is acting EXACTLY like mine did. No indication at all, same sweet loving attitude toward me. Intamacy, the whole nine yards. Making plans for romantic getaways, talking about how fortunate we were to have each other. How fortunate we were to not be in the cycle so many of our friends were. How much he valued the trust I had in him etc. etc. Window, I know that deep in your heart you want to believe him, that his actions can make no sense. If he is still acting toward you in a loving way there could not possibly be something going on. Well, I am living proof that it can. I'm sorry. Yes, I would confront her. It's what I did. Oh, incidently the cell phone was also my way of catching him. My husband would do the same thing, arrange a time for him to contact her. They had it down to a fine art. He would call and then she would return it, thereby not looking suspicious when the bill came in. He'd have 40 or 50 minutes of an incoming call listed, but not the number it came from. I learned all this afterwards. Good Luck

Windancer:<P> Can you put this behind you without knowing the real truth? If you can than it may work for you. Myself, I am a real bloodhound. No, I could not put it behind me, I think it comes down to one simple fact. Trust and honesty. Really, what kind of a marriage can be built around a relationship without it. Coming clean with you is very important in order for you to begin a healing process. Other than that you will never rest assured that his love or intentions are true. Really, even if he comes truthful with you, you still don't know. But I think in my opinion Not knowing is worse. At least if you know you can face those demons and lay your doubts to rest. As far as him looking at you differently, yes I can see why. He's unsure of your feelings toward him as well. Good luck!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by k9love:<BR><B>Windancer:<P> Can you put this behind you without knowing the real truth? If you can than it may work for you. Myself, I am a real bloodhound. No, I could not put it behind me, I think it comes down to one simple fact. Trust and honesty. Really, what kind of a marriage can be built around a relationship without it. Coming clean with you is very important in order for you to begin a healing process. Other than that you will never rest assured that his love or intentions are true. Really, even if he comes truthful with you, you still don't know. But I think in my opinion Not knowing is worse. At least if you know you can face those demons and lay your doubts to rest. As far as him looking at you differently, yes I can see why. He's unsure of your feelings toward him as well. Good luck!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>HI again, K!<BR>Thanks for your wonderful reply. I agree with you about the need to know and for the very same reasons you cited. Honest and trust--they have both flown out the window, as far as I'm concerned, and 'if' we stay together, it is going to take a s***load of work on his part to rebuild my trust in him again. I don't really want to know all of the gory details (what was it like w/her? was she better in bed than me and all that stuff. I wouldn't believe what he said at that point, anyhow). but I DO want to know for sure that he crossed a very important line in our marriage. There is every indication that he has and once I read Dr. Harley's article on infidelity ("how to catch an unfaithful husband", or something like that), he matched up with everything on that page. The ONLY thing I haven't done yet is caught them together and I doubt that I ever would.<P>It is interesting to note that you and the other person who responded and whose name I can't see right now bec. I'm on this screen, went through the same thing. That is, spouses that didn't give a clue that something was wrong. I cannot imagine the horror you both must have felt, because this is bad enough. At least, I had a very strong sense of foreboding but no matter--finding out one's spouse has been unfaithful is the absolute pits. <P>My prayers go out to you both and again, many thanks for your reply!<BR>Hugs,<BR>Windancer

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by window:<BR><B>Dear Windancer,<P>Thank you for the reply. I am sorry for all that has happened to you. I truly hope that things get better. <P>Right now is hard because I cannot even talk to him. I am not a patient person. I am now considering calling the OW not her H. I want to confront her with how many lives she is threatening to ruin. If it really is just a flirtation, she needs to remember that this is about more than just her and my H. There are two very sweet little boys who's world would never be the same. I may call her in a little while. <P>Take care,<BR>Window </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>HI, Window!<BR>Please forgive me for forgetting your name, but I just made a great discovery! I didn't know that if you are on the submit a reply page, you can scroll down past the edit box and review the entire thread. NOW I know, so no more goof-ups on my part! :-)<P>As far as contacting the OW, I guess we each have to do what we feel is right for our own particular situation. My H is so crafty, so sly that I do not feel comfortable about doing this until I speak with my lawyer. It would be just like him to get ME in trouble (harrassment and all that rot), or at least try to. So, I guess for each of us it is different. Please, if you do contact her, would you give us an update here? I would like to know how it went and what your feelings and thoughts are. Good luck to you, whatever you decide to do!<BR>Hugs..<BR>Windancer<BR>

Thank you for your replies K9 and Windancer. I called her a little while ago. She acted like I was crazy. She kept asking me if I was alone and if my H knew I was calling her. She acted very concerned for me. I told her that I didn't want her talking to him anymore. She said that they worked together so that was impossible. I told her that they did not work on the same floor anymore so there was no reason for them to talk. She said they ran into each other occassionally. I said there was no reason for them to talk in that instance. She told me to talk to him and I said I had and I would. She said I had a problem with my marriage. I said that I was never insecure until 3 weeks ago when I heard her message. She did not deny writing "sex fiend" on his book. She said it was a joke. I asked her if her husband would think it was funny and she did not seem concerned with that. She said they have a good relationship in which she is secure. I asked her if she was so secure why did she not want her friend knowing that my H was calling when they were shopping together. She did not have any good answers for any of my questions. She just kept saying they were just friends and that it was all innocent and I must be very insecure. I still haven't talked to my H. I cannot reach him. At least I know she is at work. This really stinks. I hate this feeling. Thanks again for your thoughts. I hope you are both doing well.<P>Hugs, too,<BR>Window

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Windancer:<BR><B> HI again, K!<BR>Thanks for your wonderful reply. I agree with you about the need to know and for the very same reasons you cited. Honest and trust--they have both flown out the window, as far as I'm concerned, and 'if' we stay together, it is going to take a s***load of work on his part to rebuild my trust in him again. I don't really want to know all of the gory details (what was it like w/her? was she better in bed than me and all that stuff. I wouldn't believe what he said at that point, anyhow). but I DO want to know for sure that he crossed a very important line in our marriage. There is every indication that he has and once I read Dr. Harley's article on infidelity ("how to catch an unfaithful husband", or something like that), he matched up with everything on that page. The ONLY thing I haven't done yet is caught them together and I doubt that I ever would.<P>It is interesting to note that you and the other person who responded and whose name I can't see right now bec. I'm on this screen, went through the same thing. That is, spouses that didn't give a clue that something was wrong. I cannot imagine the horror you both must have felt, because this is bad enough. At least, I had a very strong sense of foreboding but no matter--finding out one's spouse has been unfaithful is the absolute pits. <P>My prayers go out to you both and again, many thanks for your reply!<BR>Hugs,<BR>Windancer</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, you are right in not wanting the gorey details. I myself did not ask simply because it really didn't matter. I mean how in the world can the intimacy shared with the same person for 22 years be nearly as exciting as a new relationship. It stinks, familiarity is what comes after so many years. Yes, now I realize that there were things I could and should have done to "enhance" our intimacy, but quite honestly, at this point I could care less. Now tomorrow I may feel differently. I know you understand this because thoughts, emotions and feelings run like wildfire. You are probably very right in feeling that you will never catch them, unless of course you lead him to believe that you trust him, you're sorry to have mistrusted him and then drop the entire issue. If something is going on it will continue and you will have a greater chance of "catching" it because you know what to look for and he'll have a false security that you aren't looking. In many ways it's playing head games, but in reality haven't our men been playing these same games with us. Personally, I don't like games My husband keeps telling me "The ball is in your court now, it's your decision. I don't like playing ball. In my case it's not my decision, it's his to make the changes needed to assure me he is trustworthy. So far he's not batting a very good average.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by window:<BR><B>Thank you for your replies K9 and Windancer. I called her a little while ago. She acted like I was crazy. She kept asking me if I was alone and if my H knew I was calling her. She acted very concerned for me. I told her that I didn't want her talking to him anymore. She said that they worked together so that was impossible. I told her that they did not work on the same floor anymore so there was no reason for them to talk. She said they ran into each other occassionally. I said there was no reason for them to talk in that instance. She told me to talk to him and I said I had and I would. She said I had a problem with my marriage. I said that I was never insecure until 3 weeks ago when I heard her message. She did not deny writing "sex fiend" on his book. She said it was a joke. I asked her if her husband would think it was funny and she did not seem concerned with that. She said they have a good relationship in which she is secure. I asked her if she was so secure why did she not want her friend knowing that my H was calling when they were shopping together. She did not have any good answers for any of my questions. She just kept saying they were just friends and that it was all innocent and I must be very insecure. I still haven't talked to my H. I cannot reach him. At least I know she is at work. This really stinks. I hate this feeling. Thanks again for your thoughts. I hope you are both doing well.<P>Hugs, too,<BR>Window</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Isn't it just like the "other woman" to tell you that you are insecure. What nerve, she is treading on thin ice and as a married woman she knows better. She didn't have an answer for you because the truth would have given her away. She didn't want her friend to know because "something is going on" Think about it, if it is all innocent and they are "Just Friends" who cares when your H calls her, who cares if she's with another friend. If it is truly what she is trying to lead you to believe she would not care. As far as writing Sex Fiend on his book. Nope. Not a joke. Personally I can't think of any reason why a "friend" would do that.I have male friends with whom I work. They don't call me at home or E Mail me but we have a friendship based around our careers. I cannot think of anytime in which it would be appropriate to write something like that, unless of course, sex is something you share with that person. I hope I am wrong, for your sake and the sake of your children. Let us know how your husband reacts toward your calling her. You can bet your bippy that she let him know immediately about your call.

I don't know if I said it or not, but my H is gone until tomorrow night on a golfing trip. I just talked to him a little bit ago. I didn't really want to discuss it on the phone, but I also assumed that she would call him and I wanted him to hear it from me first. When I told him what I found and that I called the OW he didn't act upset at all. I really feel that he hadn't talked to her because his cell was out of range all day. He said he knew that that note was there, but he never knew who wrote it. He said he thought it was one of the guys at work just being goofy. I told him that she did not deny writing it and all of the things that she said. He just laughed and said she was baiting me. He was very sweet and said there is absolutely nothing for me to worry about. He said he was sorry that I had been upset all day and could not reach him. He was very reassuring. Of course I want to believe him. I am working on his resume for him and I plan on telling him tomorrow that he has a month to find a new job. What do you think of that? <BR>K9, if your husband started meeting your 6 emotional needs, would you take him back? <BR>Windancer, I was worried a little about getting in trouble for calling the OW, but one call is not harrassment, I don't think. I did not threaten her, curse, or raise my voice. <P>Take care,<BR>Window<BR>Sorry I always write so much!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by window:<BR><B>I don't know if I said it or not, but my H is gone until tomorrow night on a golfing trip. I just talked to him a little bit ago. I didn't really want to discuss it on the phone, but I also assumed that she would call him and I wanted him to hear it from me first. When I told him what I found and that I called the OW he didn't act upset at all. I really feel that he hadn't talked to her because his cell was out of range all day. He said he knew that that note was there, but he never knew who wrote it. He said he thought it was one of the guys at work just being goofy. I told him that she did not deny writing it and all of the things that she said. He just laughed and said she was baiting me. He was very sweet and said there is absolutely nothing for me to worry about. He said he was sorry that I had been upset all day and could not reach him. He was very reassuring. Of course I want to believe him. I am working on his resume for him and I plan on telling him tomorrow that he has a month to find a new job. What do you think of that? <BR>K9, if your husband started meeting your 6 emotional needs, would you take him back? <BR>Windancer, I was worried a little about getting in trouble for calling the OW, but one call is not harrassment, I don't think. I did not threaten her, curse, or raise my voice. <P>Take care,<BR>Window<BR>Sorry I always write so much!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Window: I hope and pray that what you are hearing from him is the truth. Can I give you some advice? Keep your eyes wide open. Check his cell phone bill when it comes in. If he's gone overnight check her whereabouts if you can. Check the motel where he is staying, is he rooming with one of the guys? These are the things I did not do, these are the things that if I had done would have nailed my husband a lot sooner. <P> If everything checks out it may be something completely innocent. Please remember, as my husband so eloquently told our counselor when asked how he was able to pull off his affair, "I told her what she wanted to hear". Many times men are indeed in love with and are happy with their wives. They want the best of both worlds. <P>My prayers are with you as I know how trying a time this is. Unless you have concrete evidence you are simply stabbing in the dark. As far as typing a resume for another job, personally I think it's a wonderful idea, it would never work for me though, my husband would never allow me that much control over his life, especially without absolute proof of wrongdoing. With proof he still wouldn't do it. <P>As far as taking him back if he met my needs, yes. But he is so stubborn and set in his ways it's like trying to get blood from a rock. Right now we are battling over something other than the A. His new found little friend who E mails him and calls him on his cell. Naturally it's a female, this one has a boyfriend. She does ocassionaly mention me in her E Mail. At this time I know he's not guilty of anything but am I wrong in feeling that this is NOT the time to strike up any new friendships, in lieu of everything that has gone on? <P>About 2 weeks after I found out about the A he spent the night out of town with another female friend, totally innocent of course, he says he slept on her couch. He went to talk to her about our problems and had an appointment the next day. I had NO idea he and her were this close. I always thought they were casual acquaintances. Now he can't seem to understand my attitude of NO MORE female friends. <P> Am I being unreasonable, jealous or just plain fed up? He's deleting mail she sends. He's not telling me when she sends it and then of course there's the dread CELL phone, god I hate the cell phone. My husband actually had the nerve, when I told him I wanted accountability from this point on, to tell me that I could call him anytime on his cell. <P> Good answer, especially since I did call him on his cell when he happened to be with the woman he had an affair with. Yes, you really know where they are at and what they are doing by calling their cell number. I think he thinks I am an idiot. <BR>

K9, I think I am the new generation of old fashionedness (do you like that word?). Before I was married I thought that having male friends was great and should always be accepted by my H. After a couple years of marriage I realized that it really is not a good idea. I like what Rev. Billy Graham says. He said that in over 50 years of marriage he NEVER allowed himself to be in a room alone with a woman other than his wife. If he counseled a woman, the door to his office was open with his secretary right outside. He said that he never wanted his wife to feel uncomfortable. Isn't that wonderful? Yes, I am a pretty traditional. <P>I have had male co-workers that I considered so-so friends, but we did not call each other at home unless it was about work. My husband works in a field dominated by women. I accept that, but never before has a female called him at home or on his cell (that I know about) for anything other than work. I am trying to believe him right now. <P>I have to tell you that I would not tolerate the overnight visit or the new friendship. If he wants to keep you, he needs to be willing to do whatever it takes. It is not ridiculous of you to not feel comfortable with his female companionship in any realm other than work. If my H questions my demands, I always turn the tables and ask him seriously think about how he would feel in my situation. Would your H like you spending the night at a man's house "on the couch" after he just found out you were having an A or having a new guy friend that was e-mailing you? Most men cannot stand the thought of other men touching their wife. When I talked to my H last night and he said that it was pointless for me to call the OW because nothing was going on, I told him that if the shoe was on the other foot he would have gone nuts. He agreed. <P>I really like our cell phone just because ours tell the numbers of in-coming calls on the phone as well as on the bill. I expect the bill this week. If you don't have this option, you should see if you can get it. <P>I talked to one of the guys last night when I talked to my H at his hotel. They were in a great mood after golfing 27 holes. The guys thanked me for letting him go with them. It is a few hours away and I know that the OW (if that is true) worked until about 7:30 last night. So I feel that it was legit.<P>I hope that I have not been too harsh. I just don't want you to think that you are being unreasonable. Take care!<BR>Window

Window:<P>No, you are not being harsh. This is exactly how I have always felt. I did tell my husband exactly what you said, "How would you like me going out of town and sleeping on a males friend's couch after finding out about an A". His reply was, "I understand, you are right" I won't do it again. Let me clarify what that means, he won't do THAT particular thing again BUT what else will he do? In other words he can always justify himself. He's a pro at it.<P>Since, in his opinion, nothing is GOING ON I should not have a problem. I can't seem to make him understand that this is where problems start. The continuous communication the opening up to a friend. Telling that friend things about yourself that your wife doesn't even know. <P>I called the friend he stayed with and chewed her out. I told her, you knew we were having marital problems ,what would posess you to invite him to stay. What is wrong with the two of you? She contends that she's always had male friends and there's nothing wrong with it. I might point out that she is single, having gone through at least 3 marriages. Yeah, I consider her a real expert on what's good for a marriage. <P>As I said my husband told her about his A before I ever found out so I decided to call her again and ask "What did he say was wrong with his marriage" Personally, I don't think there was anything wrong, but I wanted to hear what he thought. She told me that I had to accept responsibility for his A because after 22 years of being together sex wasn't as exciting. She went on to say that my husband told her that he had talked to me about this. I know he did tell her this. When I asked him of course he denied it. If I don't have it on tape I do not get the truth from my husband.<P>The point is he shouldn't have this kind of a relationship. No other woman should be privy to the things that are going on in our marriage. No other woman should know more about him than I do. I really question his concept and idea of what marriage is about.<P>He would rather hide things from me when it comes to his friendships than tell me. One of the reasons is because I get upset. Yes, I get upset. But it's because it's not good. He keeps telling me I can't change his personality, that he won't be rude to women because I have a problem. If they are nice to him he is nice back. <P>He could easily take care of this new problem by not returning her E Mail. When he runs into her he could say he doesn't have time or he doesn't check it or whatever. For one thing he does not type so it is a slow process for him to write anyway. But no, he hasn't got enough sense to know how to take care of it. In all reality it boils back down to the same scenario for me. His needs and wants superceed what I want. At this point I feel that his not wanting to be "rude" to this woman will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I guess it's because I know deep in my heart he won't change. My feelings, because he won't validate them, mean nothing to him.<P>He keeps telling me how hard he is working on changing so that we can work things out. About the only change he's made so far is not taking off and going out of town to get away from all of it. <P>I am glad that everything checked out on your end. <P>Windancer: How is it going? We haven't heard from you and as mother hens tend to want to keep our wings stretched around each other <P>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by k9love:<BR>[B]Window:<P><BR>The point is he shouldn't have this kind of a relationship. No other woman should be privy to the things that are going on in our marriage. No other woman should know more about him than I do. I really question his concept and idea of what marriage is about.<P>He would rather hide things from me when it comes to his friendships than tell me. One of the reasons is because I get upset. Yes, I get upset. But it's because it's not good. He keeps telling me I can't change his personality, that he won't be rude to women because I have a problem. If they are nice to him he is nice back. <P>Windancer: How is it going? We haven't heard from you and as mother hens tend to want to keep our wings stretched around each other <BR>--------------------------------<P>Hi, K and Window!<BR>How nice of you to ask for me! Bless you, sweet K! I just got totally absorbed in our thread here--and wanted time to really digest what you and Window are writing about. Ya know what hit me?? All THREE of us are in a similar situation, although very different circumstances. For all 3 of us, I hear from our H's that, ultimately, 'It's not my fault.' Your husband thinks having female friends is perfectly ok, and likewise for Window. Well, likewise for MY DH, too (meaning, 'darling husband' with a tinge of sarcasm!). I read somewhere on this site the funniest but truest "dictionary of internet infidelity terms" and have been trying to re-find it, but can't. One term there (all terms were made up by contributors to the MB) was "Nocontact." It made me howl and want to bop him upside his head at the same time! It went something like this: "If I do not initiate the contact, then I have not broken the no contact rule." Yep....been there, done that, too and I dont' buy it for a minute!! My H insists that the very personal letter I found from HER to him wasn't his fault--he did not send the letter and did not ask to receive it. Right! Like I beleive that. My point of contention is that if HE wasn't leading her on in some way, then she would not have sent him any such a thing. <P>Don't the two of you agree with this idea? Both of your husbands, just like mine, seem to think that rules are made for everyone else but not for them. Sure...your H wouldn't like it if you stayed at a male friend's house overnight, but as for him? See what I mean? <P>Window, it sounds as if your H is off the hook this one time and for that, I am happy for you. But, if things were going well in your marriage, you would not be here seeking answers...am I right? This goes for me, too. It's taken me quite a few months to try and sort things out, and all I can come up with is that he cheated on me. Pure and simple, just the facts, ma'am. He chose to go outside of our vows for whatever reason he chose to adopt, and now there is a breech between us that either will be closed, or it won't.<P>I admire Window for calling the OW and just wish to GOD I had the courage to do that! I am so afraid of sparking off another nightlong screaming session with my DH, that I am paralyzed into non-action. This is why I want the advice of an attorney. It's childish of me, I know, like seeking permission or approval, but this is the number he's done on my head over the years.<P>Thank God for this site and so far for the two of you who I am beginning to think of as friends! Let's keep the thread going, ok?<BR>Hugs and best wishes,<BR>Winny<BR>

Window and Winny:<P> I want you two to know that your names are too similar, just joking. I agree Winny I really look forward to getting on line to see how you two are doing. <P>We've talked so much about the most intimate things, our pain and hurt that I wanted to give you some info on myself. I am 40, just turned this year, I live in NM. <P>You are so right when you said our men do not see fault because they feel they did no instigating . Baloney, I feel my husband is a magnet, so to speak, and he has a way of making other women feel VERY comfortable when they converse with him. Got any ideas on how to demagnitize him? <P>You are right when you said he was leading her on in some way. Women or men for that matter don't extend of themselves, be it friendship or whatever, unless the other person makes them feel safe in doing so. I cannot make my H understand this. They ARE doing something, I've come to the conclusion that my husband is totally ignorant to the facts of life. Who knows, maybe if I start to extend myself as he does he'll see and feel what it is I am trying to explain to him. <P>Well anyway it is getting late and I'm going to hit the hay. I do enjoy our conversations.<P>God bless, and talk to you tomorrow<BR>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by k9love:<BR>[B]Window and Winny:<BR>Quotes:<BR> You are so right when you said our men do not see fault because they feel they did no instigating . Baloney, I feel my husband is a magnet, so to speak, and he has a way of making other women feel VERY comfortable when they converse with him. Got any ideas on how to demagnitize him? <P>You are right when you said he was leading her on in some way. Women or men for that matter don't extend of themselves, be it friendship or whatever, unless the other person makes them feel safe in doing so. I cannot make my H understand this. <BR>----------------------------<BR>Hi, K!<BR>Yes, I also am looking forward each day to hearing from you and Window! There is such comfort in sharing things, be they laughter, sorrow or pain. {{{{K and Window}}} Notice my little smiley face this morning! I feel like smiling, which is a good sign.<P>As to our men, let me ask you a quick question: do you feel your H's are the sort of man who is mildly to very proud of himself? I mean, as far as physical looks go. My H is in very good shape and is quite handsome. He knows he looks good although if asked, he'll deny that, too. :-) Anyway, I'm just curious because it seems that men who are magnets to the opposite sex seem to share this commodity. They take pride in their appearance and if truth be known, are a tad conceited. I hate to say this, but I'll go out on a limb and say it, but I'm the same way, too. I know I am in good shape, I take pride in my appearance and usually can hold my own in any social situation. Men like to talk to me just as much as women like to talk to my H. The difference is that I am crazy/wild over my H and I know that gets communicated to anyone I speak to, male or female. (See? I'm doing it now!) <P>How do we make them understand how we feel? I wish I knew! Any suggestions from either of you? I would normally say just come out and tell our H's how we feel, but would they listen or even care? What do you both think?<P>Looking forward to your replies...and many hugs,<BR>Winny

I hope that all is ok with you, Windancer. K9, I only have a minute, but I didn't want you to think I was gone. I have to take one of my little ones to MDO. I am already late. I am back in my funk again today. I am having a hard time getting going. My H wasn't as sweet last night as I would have hoped. We haven't seen each other in 4 days and he went to bed at 6:00 p.m. He was a little sick from golfing too much. He gets sick from too much wind and cold. Too many recessive genes, I guess. Anyway, it made me sad that we didn't talk at all. He says nothing is happening so there is nothing to talk about. I will check in later while my baby is sleeping. <P>Take care,<BR>Window

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by window:<BR><B>I hope that all is ok with you, Windancer. K9, I only have a minute, but I didn't want you to think I was gone. I have to take one of my little ones to MDO. I am already late. I am back in my funk again today. I am having a hard time getting going. My H wasn't as sweet last night as I would have hoped. We haven't seen each other in 4 days and he went to bed at 6:00 p.m. He was a little sick from golfing too much. He gets sick from too much wind and cold. Too many recessive genes, I guess. Anyway, it made me sad that we didn't talk at all. He says nothing is happening so there is nothing to talk about. I will check in later while my baby is sleeping. <P>Take care,<BR>Window</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Windancer and Window<BR>God, that is the most irritating comment I think men can make. There's nothing going on so there's nothing to talk about. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt, nothing is going on. Now, let's look at how you are feeling, insecure, unsure and frightened. Okay, this is where he needs to meet your emotional needs and this is where men fail. <P>I had posted earlier that my marriage had problems a year ago. The major problem was I thought my husband was having an affair with one of our employees. Turned out I was wrong But I went through the entire gammat of what you and windancer are going through. Been there, the uncertainty drives you wild. <P>My husband was telling me nothing was going on, he too ignored my insecurities and did nothing to insure me otherwise. At that time he was not having an affair. Because of the way I treated him, the accusations etc., the damage I did to my relationship I vowed deep inside that I would trust no matter what. That is why I did not look or see the obvious when he did have the affair a year later. This is very hard for me, so you see I too have been in the same situation as you and Winny. I suspected, maybe it was a clue as to what was going to follow. I don't know. <P>I have to agree with how you are feeling now. Gone for 4 days, you NEED assurance, tenderness and affection. He goes to sleep because he's tired. <P>I think back over the months my husband was pulling his stunt and I remember the times he'd come home after being with her and not want anything to do with me. I didn't put two and two together. Afterall, within a day or so things were back to normal. I too assumed it was due to traveling and being tired. <P> I am not in any way saying your husband was doing something other than what he says but from our point of view it adds to the doubt. <P>Winny, my husband is very attractive also. As I said he is extremely charming. He has a way with women plain and simple. I wouldn't say he's built like Arnold Schwarnngegger, or however it's spelled. But he is in good physical shape, not overly muscled mind you but looks good. I too am in good shape, I excercise, I too can hold conversation with males but like you it oozes out of me how much in love and satisfied I am with my marriage. <P> I did tell you I met the other woman, on a scale of 1-l0 ten being what I would have thought my husband would go for this woman was a 4. That's not to put her down she was just not anything that if I had seen around thatI would have worried about. In fact, she is quite a few years older than me. The counselor couldn't understand this either. He said himself that as charming and good looking as my H was he would invision him having an A with someone younger, prettier, etc. But then you have to look at how my husband took great care to get involved with someone of a "safe" nature. Out of town, didn't know me, not part of our social group etc. <P>Today seems to be going Okay. Ups and downs as you know, God I hate it.<P>Take care and God bless you