Winny! I am so glad to hear from you again! We were worried. I am glad that you sound better. You are always so sweet. I hope your H can realize that. It makes me sad for that you say that he knows you still love him and you know that he still has feelings for you. I hope you know that you deserve to be truly and deeply loved.<P>I do think my H is a keeper. He definitely realizes he made a huge mistake (unless he is still lying to me). I don't think he is, though. He is not really a good liar.<P>All of my kids are awake, so I just wanted to say hi. Thanks for letting us know you are okay.<P>Take care,<BR>Window

Winny:<P>DITTO: Glad you're back, I actually let my husband read your post because he knew something was bothering me. I told him well I know you don't understand but I've got two really fantastic friends and one of them is hurting and I'm real worried for her. <P>Sweety, you said it! Go on living, one step at a time. I know this is helping me tremendously. I am fixing to leave for out of town with my girlfriend and I am going to have a ball. H is somewhat leery, worried about, would you believe, me looking for someone else. Yep, just what I want now, a hornet in the nest. It's gotta be a guy thing.<P>The hardest, absolute hardest, thing about all of this is going on and being happy again. But it works its benefits all the way around. They begin to see the new you, and you begin to look at life from a totaly different perspective. I know I am. Life is tooooo short to be in misery over someone elses stupidity. I know if nothing else I love myself enough not to want to cause pain to myself. He may not have,but oh well. I don't know where we are at this point in our relationship but more important than that I know where I am going with myself. So there it is. <P>Window: I am glad you told us about the crisis scenario. It is so true. I am glad you are feeling happier within yourself. <P>Now remember, I am older than you, therefore you need to heed me, (thought I'd throw in my motherly advice) If you get the bill in PUT IT AWAY until after you get home. You do have the strength to do so. Look at how strong you are already. You cannot change what has already happened. You deserve a weekend away from the babies, with your partner in life, you deserve to be happy, please take it. I have learned one thing, putting it on the back burner does not mean you ignore it, it means you are putting your wants and needs first.<P>Enjoy your getaway God only knows how badly YOU need it.<P>Love ya both <P>PS Winny, I am so glad you are putting yourself first. Did you call in family to help out? I wish I could do that but my family would NEVER forgive nor forget so if I even have a snowball chance at this marriage mums the word.<P>I'll fill you both in when I get back tomorrow evening. Ta Ta, my wings are needing to fly.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by window:<BR>[B]Winny! <BR>>>>It makes me sad for that you say that he knows you still love him and you know that he still has feelings for you. I hope you know that you deserve to be truly and deeply loved.???<P>I do think my H is a keeper. He definitely realizes he made a huge mistake (unless he is still lying to me). I don't think he is, though. He is not really a good liar.>>><P>Awww, Window!<BR>Thanks for the vote of confidence, lovely new friend! You are qutie right: EACH of us deserves to be truly and deeply loved. At one time, he did love me deeply but Life got in the way and bruised that love. He has told me that he honestly does not know how he feels at this point and that's OK. He is in a very confused state. At least he had the courage to tell me this and for that, I am grateful. He needs time to sort things out, and perhaps to heal. I love him enough to give him that time and if I am really lucky, he will come back to center and realize that what we have together is priceless. I am devoted to him and because I am, I can forgive his wandering (if he has indeed wandered). After all, we are only human and as such, we are not supermen and superwomen. No one is immune to falling, and when you come right down to it, we all make mistakes.<P>As for your hubby, trust your inner instincts. I think they are telling you that he is a very good man who just made a bad mistake. And Window....let me ask you something. Why torture yourself by looking at another phone bill? You already know he's erred, he's already admitted it, so why beat yourself over the head with it any more? It's like rubbing salt into an open wound. If he is truly sorry and from what you say, it really does look like he is, then he will stop hurting you and not be unfaithful anymore. If he backslides, then that is on him and he will have to deal with the guilt and bad feelings. You already feel bad enough...why feel worse? Like Dr. Harley says, it is going to take some time for him to get over it himself (the withdrawl thing), and you need to give him that time. You need to concentrate on each other and keep your eyes on each other, not on outsiders. If you can both do that, then you can get past this terrible time. <P>LOL! I wish I had taken my own advice earlier. I, too, got into the habit of dogging him--and let me tell you, it can only lead to more angry feelings on both sides and doesn't really help the situation at all. My new attitude is simply this: either love me or don't, but be honest about it. If you don't love me, then I am not going to destroy my life over it. I will go on, and so will you but it may not be together. I think this is a variation on the old standby "If you love something, let it go. If it doesn't come back, it was never yours to start with." Believe me, this new "me" is starting to get his attention! <P>Hang in there, sweetie. You sound like you have a good relationship there with him, and perhaps this was just a one-time mistake. Only time will tell, so look forward and live in the moment today. God bless...<BR>Love,<BR>Winny<p>[This message has been edited by Windancer (edited March 30, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by k9love:<BR><B>Winny:<P>DITTO: Glad you're back, I actually let my husband read your post because he knew something was bothering me. I told him well I know you don't understand but I've got two really fantastic friends and one of them is hurting and I'm real worried for her. <P>Sweety, you said it! Go on living, one step at a time. I know this is helping me tremendously. I am fixing to leave for out of town with my girlfriend and I am going to have a ball. H is somewhat leery, worried about, would you believe, me looking for someone else. Yep, just what I want now, a hornet in the nest. It's gotta be a guy thing.<P>The hardest, absolute hardest, thing about all of this is going on and being happy again. But it works its benefits all the way around. They begin to see the new you, and you begin to look at life from a totaly different perspective. I know I am. Life is tooooo short to be in misery over someone elses stupidity. I know if nothing else I love myself enough not to want to cause pain to myself. He may not have,but oh well. I don't know where we are at this point in our relationship but more important than that I know where I am going with myself. <P> So there it is. <BR>in life, you deserve to be happy, please take it. I have learned one thing, putting it on the back burner does not mean you ignore it, it means you are putting your wants and needs first.<P>PS Winny, I am so glad you are putting yourself first. Did you call in family to help out? I wish I could do that but my family would NEVER forgive nor forget so if I even have a snowball chance at this marriage mums the word.<P>I'll fill you both in when I get back tomorrow evening. Ta Ta, my wings are needing to fly.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>--------------------------------------------<P>K!<BR>You go, girl! LOL! Go and have a ball and when you get back, you'll be refreshed and ready to face each day's trials and trib's again. Lordy, marrige can be such a trial sometimes, eh?! <P>K, what you wrote is soooo true!! I really AM becoming a 'new me.' Actually, that's not quite true: I am becoming the me I used to be before I got ill. Returning to good health (or as good as it's gonna get), I am getting out of my former rut. I am now starting to put ME first, something I haven't done in 16 years. Let's face it: I became very predictable. There was no real challenge there for him anymore. Of course, being marooned in the house for 6 years was a terrible way to live, but until my legs were rebuilt and on the way to recovery, I had no choice. NOW is a whole new day, though! I am now driving my car again, after 6 years' imprisonment in my home and it is wonderful! Now, he gets to wonder "what is she doing?" and "where is she going today?" Before, he knew exactly where I'd be. Just like Old Faithful. LOL! I don't mean to imply that I am going to cheat on him (Please!! one man is quite enough, thank you!), but let's face it, I became boring to him. Living with someone who is chronically ill is a tremendous challenge, and the one who is ill often doesn't even realize this. <P>Well, it's different now. I have come to realize that with or without him, I am still a worthwhile person with a lot to offer. I may walk with a serious limp, but I can walk! I may not be able to dance anymore but I can still enjoy music, and moonlit nights, and oh so much more. <P>I love what you said about loving yourself enough not to cause pain to yourself. Right on, K!! Life can throw us so many curves itself...why go looking for more? I know that happiness can mean many different things to different people. To me, it means a day without pain. It means being able to get up in the morning and being glad to be alive. Somehow, he lost sight of this, and for reasons unknown to me, could not turn to me for comfort or solace. If we are meant to stay together, then that is a wonderful thing. If we are not, then I realize now that Life can still be beautiful. It's what we choose to make it, and I choose to make it as good a life as I can. To me, there is nothing worse than an unequal love. I love him far more right now than he loves me, if he loves me at all. These are feelings I have to deal with (don't we all??!), and by God, I will deal with them. It's a comfort to me to know that no matter what, God loves me more than I can ever imagine. Wow! How good is that?! I know that He will provide for me exactly what I need, be it food, shelter or yes, even the love of man. In short, I've learned to let go and let God. IF we are meant to be together, no force on earth will keep us apart. If we are not meant to be together, then no force on earth will keep us together. <P>As for me, it is exciting just to start rebuilding my life. The Y is working out just great and the water exercises are doing wonders for me already. Making new friends there is a definite plus and it's nice to have something to look forward to. I hope and pray that both you and Window have a lot of joy this weekend. And, I pray that your husbands all realize how lucky they are to have *you*! <BR>God bless....write as soon as you can when you get back!<BR>Love,<BR>Winny<P>

Hi girls,<P>We just got back from a wonderful weekend. It was exactly what we needed. We had a great talk and I feel much better. Winny, I think I will be taking your advice and not looking at the phone bills. I will write more tomorrow. I hope you both had a good weekend. I am headed for a bath and reading to my little boy. Take care,<BR>Window<P>Winny, Thank you for your sweet words, as always!

Girls I am back<P>Had a great time. Spent the night went shopping and went to a nightclub. Our town is so small you have to get out of town if you want to shop and have fun.<P>Opinions wanted please, As I had mentioned earlier my husband was leery of me going out of town with my friend. He is feeling very insecure right now (and he should be) and he's afraid I am LOOKING. Lord almighty that's just what I want, to lower myself to his standards, and cause more problems than I already have. <P>He actually came looking for me. This city is 120 miles away. He and a male friend (good choice) drove up that night. He wasn't able to find me because we didn't stay where I had told him, only because they had closed the lounge and restaurant and we wanted a central area. We didn't want to do any more driving than absolutely necessary.<P>My girlfriend was furious. She says this is not love, its jealousy and him trying to control me. Myself, I don't know that it's love but I would have probably done the same myself. My husband said he did it because he missed me and wanted to be with me. I said and you wanted to see if I was with anyone? He didn't deny it.<P>What do you two think about this? <BR>

Good morning! I am up way too early for my standards. My baby decided that getting up early is fun. I made him go back to bed, but of course, I cannot go back now. What luck! <P>K, I am glad you had fun. I think that it was pretty crummy of your H to do that. You needed that time to yourself and he didn't allow it. You have not proven yourself to be untrustworthy. He has. To me it seems like the doubt of the guilty. If you said you were just out with the girls having fun, then you have never given him any reason to doubt that. As far as him missing you. . . Well too bad! Didn't you miss him while he was off galavanting around? He was physically and emotionally gone away from you for how long? You have been going through the toughest thing you could ever imagine and he needs to allow you to heal. Following you and causing you more stress is not allowing you to heal! I hate to say this, but it doesn't show love (in my eyes). It just shows possessiveness. <P>I have a friend who had a terrible marriage. Her H emotionally and occassionally physically abused her for 8 years. He told her how inferior she was and lots of other fun stuff. Then when she finally divorced him, he went nuts. Now 2 years later he calls her all of the time telling her how much he misses her and loves her. I am not comparing your H and this jerk (I tried for years to get her to leave him!), but when they act so crazy, it doesn't reek of love. I hope that wasn't too harsh. I haven't had my coffee yet - it is still brewing.<P>Our little cabin was so cute! We went hiking and rock climbing (they say that rock climbingis good for a relationship, because you have to trust each other). It's been a long time since I have done anything like that and I was very out of practice. It was fun, though. It was very romantic. Our cabin was completely secluded. We ate lunch yesterday on a patio looking over a stream beside a mountain. <P>We talked a lot on the way home. We avoided it as much as possible before that. I told him that I just needed the truth and that I could deal with it if he told me everything now. He is willing to admit that it was emotional but still says it was never physical. I have to work on believing that and try to move on from here. I let him read some of my posts last night. That may have helped get a glimpse at how deeply he hurt me. He was sad last night after that. I cannot stand for him to be sad. He told me to quit worrying about him because it was his own fault. I think we will come out of this much stronger.<P>How are you doing, Winny?<P>Have a good day <BR>Window<P>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by k9love:<BR>[B]Girls I am back<P>>>>Had a great time. Spent the night went shopping and went to a nightclub.>>>><P>Good for YOU, K! Glad you got the chance to go and even gladder you had a great time.<P>>>>He actually came looking for me. This city is 120 miles away. He and a male friend (good choice) drove up that night. He wasn't able to find me because we didn't stay where I had told him, only because they had closed the lounge and restaurant and we wanted a central area. We didn't want to do any more driving than absolutely necessary.>>><P>K, only your H knows what was in his mind and heart when he followed you. You could speculate all day and night long, but the truth is simply that only he alone knows why he did this. Would he tell you the truth? Personally, I think that's doubtful because people who cheat on their mates are not capable of telling the truth at that point in time, or they would not be fooling around. (make sense?) If they could, they would have the courage to come out and say, "You are not meeting my needs right now so therefore, I am having them met with someone else." Then, they would have to face and deal with the consequences which would defeat the whole purpose of a 'quick fix', which is what I tend to view an affair as. <P>Do I think it was right or wrong of him? To me, that was being sneaky on his part. He wasn't truthful with you by keeping it from you, or by prelanning his trip and not telling you. (How did you find out, by the way? Did you see him, or did he tell you and if so, when?)<P>Here is what I have noticed in my own marriage and situation: ever since I found evidence that he was having some sort of relationship with an OW (the personal letter to him), I have become very suspicious, very jealous, and very underhanded. Never in our almost 20 years together have I ever checked up on him or questioned his every movement before. It is horrible--I am partly ashamed of myself yet feel party justified. No matter, there is another side to this coin: now that he knows I am suspicious, he is constantly 'looking over his shoulder' and actually spying on me sometimes (looking thru my personal email, going over phone bill w/fine tooth comb and other things like this). I feel as if I am under a microscope, too, and it purely rots! I like to think he is doing these things just to find out how much I have found out, because that is the only reason that makes any real sense. You know that old saying, "Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"? Well, here it is in full-blown action. The lies, sneaking around and deviousness cheating mates do leave deep wounds and scars as well as set up the wounded relationship for further injuries. Personally, I feel I have found all that I need to find and now it's up to him to decide which relationship is more important to him. We are still at that stage of things and it is miserable, slow-going and very emotionally abusive. <P>I would love to know how your H explained his trip, K! Please give Window and me some more details because this is very, very interesting. It's a chance to see how the other side's mind works, and why they do what they do.Why did he feel the need to spy on you? Was he dreading--or hoping--to catch you in an awkward situation, and if so, why? <P>Window...glad you had a nice weekend, hon! It sounds like the two of you really have some solid ground to build your marriage on, and for that I am so happy for you! As for my weekend, it was better than I had anticipated (at least we didn't fight or argue and actually had some nice time together), but there is still a mountain of work we have to do to get back on course here. He is still very emotionally closed off to me, but I see he is making some effort to open up a bit and this is a good thing. At least he is talking, and I mean really talking about some of his inner feelings and thoughts. I am learning about him in a whole new way and I just hope this keeps up!<P>It was great to find letters from you both this morning! Please do respond ASAP!<BR>Love you both and praying constantly for us all,<BR>Winny<p>[This message has been edited by Windancer (edited April 02, 2001).]

Window:<P>No, you are not being too harsh, you are right. I have done nothing, but he was so sure of my commitment to him before this A now he is not sure of anything. That does not condone his behavior at all. He was so sure of me. Now he's not. Yes, his guilt is playing a BIG part of it. But hey, I didn't want any of this anyway. I would have been just as happy if he'd come out and said, "Our marriage is in trouble, I don't understand how I am feeling, and we need to work this out" He obviously chose plan B, get needs met elsewhere and hope the wife doesn't find out about it.<P>speaking from experience Plan B stinks. I had an appointment with my counselor today.He basically feels that with the type of personality my husband has that he's had affairs in the past and will probably continue to do so in the future. <P>Nine weeks ago I would have said No Way! Today, well I really don't know. I have begged and pleaded with him to open up to me and be honest about anything else he may have done in the past. He swears this is the first and only time. If any of his friends know of what he does when he's out of town without me, they won't tell me. <P>My counselor's opinion is very unsettling to say the least. At the same time he is telling me that if my husband will make the changes, such as taking him with me if he leaves town, letting me know of female acquaintances, etc. it may work. As far as he can determine, I have no faith in my husband and trust is only a five letter word.<P>I spoke with my husband about moving back into the house a few days ago. He was both open and apprehensive about it. This worries me. Part of me wants to believe his reasoning and the other part wonders if there's an ulterior motive. I wonder if he's staying around long enough to see if he is going to be able to handle the lost freedom. He is saying that we can't work things out living separately, but that he wants me to be sure of what I want first. I really do not know what I want other than a commitment from him. I know this is really confusing for both of us right now. <P>I am glad you had a wonderful weekend Window, it sounds so romantic. At least your husband is man enough to understand that his emotional attraction was harmful to you and your marriage. Mine does not understand this, he thinks that as long as there's not a physical affair "He is doing nothing wrong".<P>Windancer: My husband left town at ten that evening, I don't think he had preplanned it, he and a friend of his went out for a couple of drinks and then my husband told him he had to go find me. They returned home quite late that evening and I found out about it when I returned the messages he had left on my cell the next day. I had my cell turned off that night. <P>I too am becoming a bloodhound of sorts. Yes, I too do not like this but what choice do I have? After so many years of "total" trust I have none. It's hard, you want to believe but when you find out how many lies you were told it is nearly impossible.<P>My counselor was telling me today about ways in which spouses hide things. One was to get a separate post office box, a credit card unknown to the spouse or even a cell phone unknown. Bills, etc would go to the Post office box and the unsuspecting spouse, would be none the wiser. Unfortunately, there are people in this world who are very skilled in this type of behavior, I pray my husband is not one of these.<P>I went back to work today and I have to say it did the soul good. My first day without every waking moment thinking about the A. Time heals, god I wish I could make it fly even faster.<P>Well, I've got to get clothes ready for tomorrow, you two take care and I'll talk to you tomorrow.<P>Love Ya both<BR>PS April the 3rd will be a beautiful day for Windancer, Window and K9, God will be with us and well as we will be with each other.

Window:<P>No, you are not being too harsh, you are right. I have done nothing, but he was so sure of my commitment to him before this A now he is not sure of anything. That does not condone his behavior at all. He was so sure of me. Now he's not. Yes, his guilt is playing a BIG part of it. But hey, I didn't want any of this anyway. I would have been just as happy if he'd come out and said, "Our marriage is in trouble, I don't understand how I am feeling, and we need to work this out" He obviously chose plan B, get needs met elsewhere and hope the wife doesn't find out about it.<P>speaking from experience Plan B stinks. I had an appointment with my counselor today.He basically feels that with the type of personality my husband has that he's had affairs in the past and will probably continue to do so in the future. <P>Nine weeks ago I would have said No Way! Today, well I really don't know. I have begged and pleaded with him to open up to me and be honest about anything else he may have done in the past. He swears this is the first and only time. If any of his friends know of what he does when he's out of town without me, they won't tell me. <P>My counselor's opinion is very unsettling to say the least. At the same time he is telling me that if my husband will make the changes, such as taking him with me if he leaves town, letting me know of female acquaintances, etc. it may work. As far as he can determine, I have no faith in my husband and trust is only a five letter word.<P>I spoke with my husband about moving back into the house a few days ago. He was both open and apprehensive about it. This worries me. Part of me wants to believe his reasoning and the other part wonders if there's an ulterior motive. I wonder if he's staying around long enough to see if he is going to be able to handle the lost freedom. He is saying that we can't work things out living separately, but that he wants me to be sure of what I want first. I really do not know what I want other than a commitment from him. I know this is really confusing for both of us right now. <P>I am glad you had a wonderful weekend Window, it sounds so romantic. At least your husband is man enough to understand that his emotional attraction was harmful to you and your marriage. Mine does not understand this, he thinks that as long as there's not a physical affair "He is doing nothing wrong".<P>Windancer: My husband left town at ten that evening, I don't think he had preplanned it, he and a friend of his went out for a couple of drinks and then my husband told him he had to go find me. They returned home quite late that evening and I found out about it when I returned the messages he had left on my cell the next day. I had my cell turned off that night. <P>I too am becoming a bloodhound of sorts. Yes, I too do not like this but what choice do I have? After so many years of "total" trust I have none. It's hard, you want to believe but when you find out how many lies you were told it is nearly impossible.<P>My counselor was telling me today about ways in which spouses hide things. One was to get a separate post office box, a credit card unknown to the spouse or even a cell phone unknown. Bills, etc would go to the Post office box and the unsuspecting spouse, would be none the wiser. Unfortunately, there are people in this world who are very skilled in this type of behavior, I pray my husband is not one of these.<P>I went back to work today and I have to say it did the soul good. My first day without every waking moment thinking about the A. Time heals, god I wish I could make it fly even faster.<P>Well, I've got to get clothes ready for tomorrow, you two take care and I'll talk to you tomorrow.<P>Love Ya both<BR>PS April the 3rd will be a beautiful day for Windancer, Window and K9, God will be with us and well as we will be with each other.

K9, I am honestly at a loss for what to say to you. I am glad you can share all of this w/Winny and me. It must be very painful not knowing, not being able to communicate, etc. I want to say something wonderful to cheer you up, but just cannot think of anything. <P>I am glad that you have gone back to work. I am so thankful that I do not have to work outside of the home. Last week I was such a basket case. I know that I am still not concentrating well. I have actually had moments that I haven't thought about it, though. I think that must be a good sign. I know that it is good for you to get away from your problems by going to work, but I guess I would be afraid of starting to cry. I started crying at the restaurant where we had lunch before we headed home on Sunday. Luckily we were sitting outside and I put my sunglasses on, but the tears were streaming down my face. I hate that!<P>One of the hardest things right now is that everyone on this forum who hears this story and the few people in my life that I have told, truly believe that my H must have had a PA. That is hard to swallow. Oh well! <P>I promised myself I would get some things accomplished today, so I am going to get started. Have a wonderful day! Thankyou for the affirmation! Yes, K9, Windancer, and Window will have a wonderful day today!<P>Love you both,<BR>Window

K wrote:<BR>>>>>Nine weeks ago I would have said No Way! Today, well I really don't know. I have begged and pleaded with him to open up to me and be honest about anything else he may have done in the past. He swears this is the first and only time. If any of his friends know of what he does when he's out of town without me, they won't tell me.>>>><P>Hi, K and Window!<BR>Yes, today is so far a wonderful day. The sun is shining, spring is in the air and the promise of a new day is always a blessing to wake up to. It's what we do with our time that matters, isn't that true? For me, I made a decision: I decided to learn all that I could about my H as a man, and therefore, as a person. Wait till you hear what happened to me!!<P>Yesterday I went to our library and was looking for a book that many of my friends read and told me about. I know this is Dr. Harley's site and forum, so let me pre-apologize for what I am about to say. The book I wanted is "Men Are From Mars, Women are From Venus", by Dr. John Gray. Not only did I find it, but on my way out the door, the very same book was on the books for sale cart at the mere price of only 25 cents! So, I returned the borrowed copy and bought the one on the cart. Let me tell ya, that book is hard to put down! I am already almost half the way through, and girls, I am learning so much that my whole inner self is calming down. Dr Gray may not have all of the answers (really, does anyone??), but what he has to say is really worth reading about. I am learning about men in general and how they think, process information and oh, so much more. <P>I can only speak for myself and my own situation, but after reading what I've read so far, it's a wonder that our marriage hasn't crashed sooner that it did. Wow! In so many ways, I was totally off base, and likewise for my H. Instead of showing him love, I learned that I was actually undermining his sense of self worth. I copied that above sentence, K, from your letter because it hits home with something Dr. Gray talks about. Men want us to trust them to do the right thing by us, to provide for us, to solve problems for us and so on. Over the years, I have helped to erode his feelings of self confidence by handling many things wrong. All the while, I thought I was doing things right--but that's because I am a woman and look at life far differently than a man. Anyway, I misunderstood him a lot of the time and took many of his actions and words in the wrong way. As a result, he hit bottom--and needed space away from me. I am NOT saying that I deserved to be cheated on at all, so please dont misunderstand me. What I am saying is that if I had known then what I am learning now, things may have had a far different outcome. The good news is that it is never too late to learn! Even if nothing else comes of it except learning how a man thinks, then I have gained a powerful amount of knowledge and help.<P>I had a chance to put a couple of new ideas in action just last night. By following a few of Dr. Gray's suggestions, I found myself having a very enjoyable evening with my H, and he actually began to open up to me and "include" me in his world at the moment, something that hasn't happened in so long that I can't remember when the last time was. <P>What I am learning here through this site is wonderful, and I look forward to talking with you two gals each day. However, it really does help to gather as much knowledge as one can--and I personally think Dr. Gray's theories are fantastic. Hey, at this stage of the game, it sure couldn't hurt!<P>Well...I am wishing you both many great days ahead and I am looking forward to trying to put things back together now in my own marriage. By the way, to really understand what I was trying to say a couple of paragraphs above, you need to read his book. It would be interesting if all 3 of us could read it and then compare notes. What do you think? I know that I am definitely going to keep my copy forever. it's really that good!<P>Write back soon...keep the faith and know that love can return, it really can. Hugs to both of you...<BR>Love,<BR>Winny<P>

Windancer and Winny:<P>Greeting fellow roller coaster comrads. God, I hate the roller coaster, always made me sick, that hasn't changed. Posting only once a day is putting me through a mild withdrawl, just kidding. Things are busy for me now. I don't know why but I have to stay busy to stay focused. If I don't have a set schedule to keep I run circles around myself, get nothing done, and think too much.<P>I have seen the book Men are from Mars, Women from Venus, I've heard it's really good. I will check it out and read the whole thing as soon as I can. I did read an exerpt out of it about a year ago. It was talking about a man who had an affair, I promptly put the book down, thinking "not anything I need". Life has a way of biting you right in the butt and the worse thing about it is you don't see it coming.<P>Today was a good day. I am trying really hard to just be me again. Sounds strange, but I felt like I didn't know who me was. <P>I am turning to help in the form of a chemical dependancy and god I hate it. I started taking Prozac a few days ago, it takes a few weeks to really begin working, but I need help desparately. My gynecologist prescribed it for me and I really had serious doubts about it. I'm afraid if I don't do something to relieve the internal stress I am going to set myself up for a heart attack. I am not taking care if myself like I know I should and like I tell you both to do. Easier said than done.<P>Window as far as you feeling that everyone thinks your husband had a physical affair that's not entirely true. I know in some of my first posts I certainly hinted that he did. But it was only because of my own situation. Everyone has a different situation and what is true for one is not necesarily true for the other. It's the same thing as people telling me that my husband's done this in the past and he will do it again. They really don't know about the future and I pray they are wrong abou the past. But the point is that you are working on resolving a delicate issue. What did or did not happen only your husband knows. What others may think, or feel for that matter are of little importance. <P>I know how badly it hurts to think that he "could have" and I know how badly it hurts when you find out "he did". We all have to live in a world filled with horrible things and we each have to make a safe place for ourselves and the ones we love. <P>The only thing that really matters is what YOU think. You are the only one who has to live your life. <P>I know this is how I have to deal with it. My only problem is I don't know what to think, I have the truth. I am scared to death to ever let anyone so close as my husband was to me. I am scared to death to ever let anyone have the power to crush me like he did. My counselor asked me yesterday if I wanted to start dating. I told him that it was the farthest thing from my thoughts now. I am so vulernable, so much of my self-esteem and self-worth is gone. I guess I am having a few poor me moments, sorry. <P>As far as crying and being afraid to be in public. I know how you feel, sunglasses are a good cover, but not inside a building. Unfortunately, I also have to blow my nose and that makes it a tad bit hard to hide.<P>Well I am going to sign off before my computer kicks me off, I hate it when you are nearly finished and it goes down. <P>Take care both of you<BR>Love ya

Hi girls,<P>I read a bit of "Men are from Mars" when my H and I first got married. I then got angry because he said he would never read it, so I thought why should I? I will go back and read it again when I finish the 2 books I am on now (Dr. Harley's). <P>Windancer, you are always so upbeat. I don't know how you do it. I really admire your attitude. I am glad that you and your H had an enjoyable evening. <P>K9, don't feel bad about the Prozac. I have been on Celexa for over a year. I am not very regular about taking it. I forget. I had post partum depression from my last son and my H told my dr to prescribe it. Now I know I need it again, but I take it even less than ever. I guess I am afraid of being too complacent.<P>I suppose what bothers me about everyone thinking he is guilty is my inability to come to terms with what I think. I try to remain positive, but it only lasts for so long. I have told you that I want to believe him, but it is hard. I am reading "SAA" and it is making me sad. My H claims to not have any sort of withdrawal, but it doesn't seem possible. His dr gave him some new muscle relaxers for his back and he is already in bed. He's been depressed acting all evening, but says it's the medicine and how much he hates his job. Since I am in the withdrawal part of SAA, I think that he must be suffering from it.<P>I got the cell bills today. Okay, so I lied. I looked at them. I couldn't help it. There are still 2 missing. Maybe they will come tomorrow. They talked 4x on Christmas. That hurt. <P>I actually don't even feel like writing any more tonight. I cannot get my thoughts straight. It is not you, my friends, I am just sad.<P>Take care,<BR>Window

He's deleting mail she sends. He's not telling me when she sends it<P>That is a huge clue that "new friend" is more than a friend. My husband used his e-mailing in a secret e-mail box as a means of contacting all three of his honeys. And, yes, he had two going at the same time. When number 1 of a PA wasn't what he expected, he was already working on number 2 to have a meeting with her. He is still hiding things from you and in denial. I believe he slept on the couch about as much as I believe you can buy ocean front property in Arizona!!Yeah!!! They are so slick and they will tell us "ANYTHING" to cover their A**es. When I found a motel bill and a bank loan for money (so he could use cash and not leave a paper trail as to where he was and what he was up to..but, he got careless with one motel receipt.) he told me that a woman was blackmailing him. And, even though he had used the imaginary "Mr. Merdon, the saddle maker instructor, to have his first meeting with his woman, and he had told me on the date of the motel receipt that he had been with Mr. Merdon as his original reason to be away over night...when I saw the motel receipt, he then changed the story to being black mailed. Even when I KNEW Mr. Merdon was his "cover" and didn't ever exhist...I wanted so badly to believe him that I accepted his bizzar tale. My sister helped me to get out of my own denial. No, it wasn't pretty at all to uncover proof of THREE different women stretching out over a full year. It was a hellatious first year, a horrible second year, a bad third year...but, now, we are finally seeing the light and love at the end of the tunnel and able to put it behind us. I'll never totally "get over it"...but, time has healed me to the point of acceptance and a realization that our marriage was really messed up and that we had many issues that needed addressing. This we have done and we have a much better marriage now. We stayed together only for our daughter's sake at first. He had fallen out of love with me because his perceptions had been that I no longer loved him for years. He saw that he made a mountain out of a molehill, but I saw that I had not shown him what he actually had meant to me. Now, he has rekindled all of his love and mine is stronger and we have a wonderful marriage. So, an affair can actually make things better in the long run when all of the issues and "baggage" from childhood are addressed. Believe it or not, we "act like we do in a marriage because of the coping skills we learned in childhood which don't help us to relate properly to a spouse." This is when you go beneath all the layers of things you argued about that were actually only scapegoats. When you get down on that final layer...you take your marriage to ground zero and rebuild the whole thing as two new people who have discovered so much about themselves and each other.

You said it exactly. You know what is really ironic about the sleeping on the couch bit? She had an extra bedroom. To tell you the truth I believe he thought it was over with us and I don't think he is still telling me the truth. I'll never know, that's about the only thing I know.<P>When you said you take your marriage back to ground zero and start over, you couldn't have said it any better. My marriage is over. The one I was in for 22 years. My only hope is for us to start completely over. <P>At this point I wish I could make him understand how much the truth about our entire marriage means to me. I am afraid the doubts and fears will continue to resurface unless he opens up to me completely. I really feel there are other issues he's hiding.<P>I can't tell you how heartbreaking it is to have absolute trust and faith in someone and to watch them tear every bit of it to shreds. I do know one thing, for myself I have to get stronger, I will not ever allow anyone to hurt me like my husband did. Not even him. I will look at life through a different set of eyes now. The eyes of someone who thought they had it all now have become the eyes of someone who knows what lies and deceit are all about.<P>Even through all the pain, the hurt, the tears there is something deep inside that knows how much I love my husband. Too much, I am afraid. He has never and will never love like I did. He's not capable of it. The best I can hope is he's got a heart and a conscious and that these lead him on the right road.

Good Evening, Ladies,<P>How are you all tonight? K9, how was another day at work? I hope it is going well for you. Windancer, how are you doing? Cheatedon, thanks for saying hi to us. I hope you are doing well, also.<P>I had a better afternoon today. I got the last 2 cell bills today. That was hard. I know, Winny, that I should not have looked, but I guess I needed to. H still says that he does not miss her. I hope that is true. I don't know how you talk to someone so much (about 250x Nov-Feb) and not miss them. I need to not torture myself anymore. I have to move forward. <P>We have been e-mailing often and talking 5-6x/day. We have plans for this weekend to go hit golf balls (his recreational need) and maybe shop for our little boy's b-day and Easter. I am lucky, my H has always loved shopping as much as I do. Sunday we will make a family day. I am trying to follow SAA. <P>Take care,<BR>Window

Window and Winny:<P>I am about to shoot a computer right between it's gray panels. Help, I have gotten on, typed eight to ten paragraphs and it kicks me off, saying due to inactivity. What is typing? sleeping? What kind of activity does this blasted thing want?<P>Anyway, back to the basics, How was your day? Mine was good. I met my husband for lunch, it was very nice, I am so attracted to the little ****. He has a way with me that I really wished he didn't. He can be so sweet and attentive when he wants.<P>Hey, something good came out of today. The new friend he had been E mailing ran into him in town and he actually told me about the encounter. No big deal, but him telling me about the conversation makes me feel better. Why, because I feel I know something more about him, his day maybe even his feelings. I don't know. I do know that playing the part of a mushroom (You know keep me in the dark and feed me ****) is not a role I want ever again.<P>Window, I can truly empathize with you over the cell phone bill. Mine too talked to the OW on Xmas day. Twice in fact, each time an hour. You bet your booty that it hurts. Women are so sentimental about times in their lives. Xmas had always been the happiest time of the year for me. Next year I'll go to church, pray for the lord's birthday and skip the rest. <P>You know what really hurts most. I had admired a certain artist who lives in the same city of sin and my husband had ordered me 2 of her pieces of art. They were so special, mine, so unique. He ordered her one too. Stick me with pins and needles. I sent them to his mother, I hope I never ever have to see the things as long as I live. I guess they would be what you call a trigger. <P>I have a pile of wood in the back yard I am tempted to light a match to because he collected it with her one weekend. Said he was going camping, yeah really roughed it,called me telling me how cold he had been at night. I bet it would go up really high, I could even have a weiney roast and invite all the neighbors. I am getting sadistic aren't I. <P>I am glad to hear you and your Husband are communicating during the day. That is good. I really am having a hard time back at work because I really got used to being around mine. Even if arguing, I enjoy his company, most of the time. <P>Well, I am going to sign off before this thing kicks me off again. Winny, hope you are okay. Window, hang on. Hopefully you have got the entire truth and you can begin the healing process now. <P>Love ya,<P>

K9, maybe if you move your mouse every once in a while or click your read mail button and then just X off of it, your computer will quit kicking you off. I wonder if you can reset the options to where you have a longer idle time. I am not a computer expert. I just know that it would really frustrate me if that happened.<P>I know exactly how you feel that your H told you about seeing his e-mail friend. It makes you feel that he is finally being honest. When the OW called my H on Monday and he called me immediately after, it made me feel so happy. I thanked him and he said that I shouldn't thank him. He is right, but it made me glad to know that maybe I can start trusting him again. <P>You know Feb. 26 is the day that I first heard the messages from her (I still didn't know much at that point) and that is when I told him to never talk to her again. When the March bill came in, there were no more calls to her. That made me glad. I just hope that they aren't being secretive now. I don't think they are, though. <P>I would roast some marshmellows on that fire, K9! I don't blame you for wanting to burn the wood and everything it represents. It's like we have this anger in us from what has been done to us, but we are trying to work things out with our H's, so we cannot take that anger out on them. The wood seems like a good start. I think that I will start a garden and take some of mine out on the dirt. <P>Winny, I miss you. I hope you are ok. Let us know how you are. Take care,<BR>Window<P>

Window: You are very lucky if there was no more contact made after you found out. That does say a lot. I found out Feb 6, on Feb. 7 he had a 97 minute call to her. On The night I found out I asked him, what are you going to do about her. He said he would tell her it was over, she had to go on with her life etc. yeah right. <P>Windancer didn't go out of town, did she? Usually she's real good about posting and letting us know if something's up. I hope all is well with her but to tell the truth, what we've learned about her, I am afraid she's going through bad times now. We'll keep her in our prayers.<P>Today was extremely long, I like but at the same time hate the new time change. I can't get to sleep at night and I am having the hardest time getting up in the morning. I think I am going to call it an extremely early evening and get into bed in a few minutes. <P>I've been bothered a lot today with thoughts about my husband. I sometimes wonder what new game he is playing with me. I have this gut feeling that he wants out, wants his freedom. Unfortunately, he is the type that wants his cake and wants to eat it too. I hope he's not playing head games with me now. I hope he truly understands what he needs to do to make things work. If he can't do it I hope he has enough respect for me to let me know how he really feels. But I am probably living in a fantasy land, I don't think he knows how to respect me. It certainly isn't respectful to tell a female friend your sexual problems. It isn't respectful to hide important things behind the curtain of "it's irrelevant, therefore unimportant" <P>Can an individual truly not have a conscience? Can they be so self involved that they cannot see how their actions affect others around them? Food for thought. <P>Well, I shall sign off for now. Hope you are having a good day . Oh, I tried hitting read mail after each paragraph. Maybe that will do the trick, It didn't kick me off this time. Thanks<P>Love ya