I hope he is not playing head games with you, too. When I think of people with no conscience, I think of serial killers. I wonder if it is the way men are raised sometimes. I know that my MIL has led my H to believe that he should be able to do whatever he wants. Here is a little example:<P>When my first son was born (almost 4 yrs ago now), he had a hole in his heart. I had a great pregnancy, he weighed 8 lb. 6 oz., but the hole in his heart did not close off properly. My labor lasted 48 hours. My H is the one who actually noticed our son's irregular heartbeat while I was in labor (he specializes in heart patients) and pointed it out to the dr and nurse. They coded our sweet little baby and took him away from us immediately. We could not hold him for 24 hrs because he was under an oxygen hood. We were very blessed, I believe, because his hole closed off in 48 hours. (He has a strawberry on his head and I tell him that it is where God came down and kissed him to make him all better) After 3 days in the hospital, we were able to bring him home. I was so paranoid, tired, etc. I was having a hard time nursing him because they wouldn't let him nurse at first, so I was having to pump and then feed him. We got home on Fri. afternoon. Sat. morning my H went golfing because his mom said that he needed a break from such a stressful week. Does that sum up how I feel men are raised? I am trying to teach my boys responsiblity and caring. I just hope that my MIL doesn't get in there and ruin it! Sorry for the long story.<P>The flood came last night. I have been pushing it back since I found out. I was so scared that when it came it wouldn't go away. I get so insecure when my H is late or doesn't act just right when we talk. I was feeling pretty low last night and my H fell asleep right after our kids went to bed. To his credit the dr has him on some new muscle relaxers for his back and they knock him out! Well that was all it took. I really felt like I needed to talk with him and have him hold me. I went to the family room and started sobbing uncontrollably. I cried for about 3 hours straight. I would stop for a minute or 2 and then it would just start again. I woke up my H because I truly felt that I was losing it. He tried to wake up, but had a hard time. Finally he held me and calmed me down. I woke up this morning crying again. I cannot even look at him w/out crying. The pain seems unbearable. I feel like I am no good for anyone right now. I prayed for God to just let me die last night. I am certainly not a good mother right now and I am probably just chasing my H away. It seems that I have no purpose. Don't worry, I am not suicidal. I feel very strongly against that. I don't feel like I can go on. I think that my H feels that I am crying to manipulate him and make him feel bad. That is so far from true. I just love him so much and this is so painful. The thoughts of him calling her in the middle of the night, all of the time bombarde me. How do I ever make those thoughts go away? <P>Sorry. I want to have a good day. I hope that your day is good. I don't know about Windancer. I am worried about her. I hope you got some good sleep last night. Take care.<P>Love,<BR>Window

HI K and Window and welcome, Cheatedon!<BR>Hi, gals! Sorry I've been away for a couple of days. My computer needed some system mantainance done on it and I don't know how to do, so I had to wait for H to help out. It seems to be working ok now!<P>K...re: conscience. Don't forget that guilt is one of the major motivators that keeps our men from telling us the truth. Without a conscience, there would be no guilt. Lots of people tend to just turn away from their problem and try to pretend it just never happened. Of course, this is not productive, but that's what a lot of folks do. I feel that with patience and love, you can break through this barrier with your H, and then true healing can begin.<P>Window, don't feel bad about peeking at the bill,hon. I think it's safe to say that every one of us would do the same thing, myself included! None of us really knows what we may or may not do in a situation until it's our turn, and it happens to us. Just treasure each new moment with your H and keep those lines of communication open!<P>Cheatedon, it sounds as if you've been thru the mill, too. Wow re: your H: three A's all at once! Your H must have nerves of steel! That you are still able to go on is a great testament to your character and strength, too. Welcome to our little coffee klatch and please do keep on posting here.<P>As for me,gals I did a wonderful thing this week. I joined a real life support group for women who are going through "transitions." That is, divorce, separation or just plain miserable marraiges. I am very lucky to have found such a group in my area and will continue to go to the meetings. Of course, I am still reading Dr. Gray's book and again I had a chance to put his teachings into practice. The result was that we avoided a major blow-out and actually went on to have some quality intimate time. WOW! To me, this is like a miracle. I had no idea how much a man needs approval, appreciation and emotional support. I am going to continue on with this book and I have to, I'll read it over two or more times.<P>Wishing each of you a good day today and a great weekend ahead. Keep up your strength, gals....be real good to yourselves and know that God does answer prayer. Keep on praying and have faith that He will help you, and you know what? He will!<BR>Love you all....<BR>Winny<p>[This message has been edited by Windancer (edited April 06, 2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by window:<BR>>>>Sat. morning my H went golfing because his mom said that he needed a break from such a stressful week. Does that sum up how I feel men are raised? I am trying to teach my boys responsiblity and caring.>>><P>Window..<BR>Sweetie, I almost jumped out of my chair when I read this sentence above! Hon, this is just what Dr. Gray talks about in his book. Men, who are motivated to solve problems, really DO need a 'break away' and they need it regularly. This doesn't mean they do not care or love us, it means that this is the way they cope with problems. They need time to themselves to think...and process all of their feelings. Unlike women who share their problems with other women, men are far different. To them, it's truly a "guy thing"..they need to feel as if they can solve every problem that comes down the pike, and do it themselves. Unlike us, they do not go to other men and discuss what to do. That's one of the major differences between the sexes, Dr. Gray says. My H went away for the weekend the week I came home from the hospital, after being in it for nearly 2 months straight. I was crushed! However, he told me at the time that he needed this time away to get his head on right again. He had gone thrut his terrible period with me every step of the way and he was mentally, physically and emotionally spent. All these years, I harbored a grudge against him until I read Dr. Gray's book. NOW I see that my H did the exact right thing at the time--he needed time to calm down, to recharge his batteries, so to speak. No, he was not cheating on me..he had a seminar to go to, so he went. When he came home, he was like a different person again. I could see that he was more in control of himself and he went on to help me through my long and painful recovery.<P>Also, you did the exact right thing, too, Window! You asked him to hold you...to listen to you, not to solve your problem, but to just show you that he cares about your feelings. Just let him know that you are going thru a very bad time emotionally and you are not asking him to 'solve' your problems...just to be there for you. Then, tell him how much you appreciate his being there for you. Your approval of him in this way will shine through and he will draw even closer to you.<P>Really, gals! GET THIS BOOK! I'm telling you, it will change your lives! So far, in one week alone, I have been able to avoid two major fights/blowouts and have come away closer to him than I have been in a long, long time. I consciously push thoughts of "her" out of my head and will not allow them to take root. I am just concentrating on US, and praying to God to give me the wisdom and strength to persevere. I'm telling you, it can be done!<P>God bless you, Window, and that precious baby of yours. I hope that all of his problems will work out and he goes on to lead a healthy and long life. <P>Love you lots...hope to hear back from ya soon!<BR>Winny<P>[This message has been edited by Windancer (edited April 06, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Windancer (edited April 06, 2001).]

Girls, you hit a nerve with the "getting away to clear his head" part. You are right. I know this, I did this, for years. I always encouraged and gave my husband the time he needed to sort things out. It had always been his way. I was intuitive enough to understand that it was actually good for the both of us. <P>At one time in our marriage, early on, he would leave maybe 3 or 4 times a year to get away. He generally went camping, or hunting etc. Usually with a friend or by himself. I had no problem with it.<P>When he bought his bike two years ago things changed. The "Need" to get away became more pulling than ever. He was going to rallies with single friends. These rallies are essentially one big party. Lots of conversation, partying, and of course half naked women to oogle at. I had a problem with this. <P>My husband and I went through a really bad period of time. He was going to these things about once every 8 to 10 weeks. The first year he had his bike he went to 7, he took me to 2. This was not good. This caused problems. He finally began to understand, or didn't want any more fighting, and he has taken me to the last two that he's gone to.<P>Herein lies my problem. When he was telling me he had to "clear his head" "get away from all the stress" he was really going to her. How can I ever feel the same way about this need? How can he ever expect me to? <P>He really messed things up for not only me but for himself. He wasn't clearing his head, unless the affair was something he considered as relieving himself. What is so sad is the fact that he "killed" the part of me that allowed him to be himself. Can someone who has done what he did honestly expect their spouse to have faith and trust in them when they "need to vent"?<P>It is really sad all the way around. All I can truly say is I will not ever allow anyone to hurt me again. Period. I will do whatever it takes to protect my very core. <P>Window, I am sorry you are having such a hard time. But it's okay to cry. It really is. God knows I've done tons of it. It helps that my husband doesn't have to witness every breakdown, it allows me to get it out. A few nights ago I read a forum on healing, it upset me so badly I beat walls with my fists. Now that is not good. Painful in fact. I wished I had a punching bag at times. I want to inflict pain upon something. Preferably non living.<P>As far as feeling like a failure as a mother, that is normal during this time. Why, because all of your thoughts and emotions are going toward your relationship. In all reality you are not being a bad mother, but you can't see that now. I bet you normally spent most waking hours thinking about your children's wants and needs. Now, you've got something else clouding your daily activities. This is to be expected, it will pass soon I hope for your sake. I have to say I am thankful myself that mine are not little now. I have felt the exact same way as you.<P>I have felt that I have not spent any quality time with my kids because if I am not visiting my husband, trying to make sense of things, I have my nose in a book or I am trying to get caught up on everything I've let go. If my children were small, oh my god, how much more difficult it would be. I understand.<P>Well, the wind is really bad and the electricity has been going on and off in town, so I don't trust this computor to stay up too much longer. Take care<P>love ya

HI, K!<BR>Your story sounds a lot like mine. My H also went away (once a month for over 2 years) to these seminars and of course, he told me it was good for him to get away to relieve stress, it was his "thing to do", a part of his life and so forth and so on. Sure. I agreed and although I was never invited to come along with him, he went religiously. I was left at home by myself and noticed that he was coming home later and later with each passing seminar. Intuitively, I just had a hunch that something was going on but honestly, I never dreamed he'd go so far as to strike up some kind of relationship with another woman. <P>I think I didn't explain Dr. Gray's point quite right in my last letter. He didn't mean that men must physically go away--he meant off by himself in another room in the house, perhaps, or just plain sit there quietly thinking (also called tuning wife out!). It's like when our men clam up and don't seem to want to talk to us for a bit. That's when a man is "off in his cave", as Dr. G. puts it. He's by himself in his thoughts and really doesn't want any outside intrusion for a while, until he's sorted things out in his head.<P>The idea that a spouse must go away for recreational purposes on a regular basis without his/her mate is just an invitation for problems! In fact, if you read some of the signs of a cheating mate, that's in the top 10. Years ago before I got ill, I used to attend ALL of his seminars with him and loved it. We had such a good time together! Then, I got too ill to travel and "naturally", he didn't want to be deprived of his hobby or past time. Being the good sport, I went along with it but you know what happened?? I found myself resenting his little trips more and more. The more I resented them, the more I showed it. The more I showed it, the more he insisted on going. That was a variation on "SHE's not going to tell ME what I can or can't do!" I look back now and realize that he didn't give a fig for my feelings and was only concentrating on his own desires and needs. Did he give me equal time? No. Did he take me places? No. Did he even ask me if there was something I'd like to do or some place I'd like to go with him? No. You see, my illness became a very convenient excuse for him to fly the coop, so to speak. <P>Ah, well....this is today. I'm a bit wiser now and a lot more educated in this side of marriage. It can happen, and it can happen to anyone. No one is immune. The trick is to recognize when things start going wrong and to take some kind of action. All of the signs were there for me to see, but I kept rationalizing them away. Well, no more! Like I said, it's a whole new day and my feelings DO matter. So do all of yours, gals! Hang in there..let's all keep learning and talking. It's good for us and our mutual support is such an upper, isn't it?? I look forward to seeing letters from you all now so much!! God bless....<BR>Luv,<BR>Winny

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by k9love:<BR><B><BR>I am about to shoot a computer right between it's gray panels. Help, I have gotten on, typed eight to ten paragraphs and it kicks me off, saying due to inactivity. <BR>What is typing? sleeping? What kind of activity does this blasted thing want?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If you're using Internet Explorer 5.5, like I am, click "Tools" on the menu. Then "Internet Options","Connections", then "Settings". Then, near the bottom of the dialog box under Dial Up Settings click "Advanced" and uncheck "Disconnect if idle for x minutes". This may may the same for other versions of IE, I'm not sure. If not, you can try "Help" then do a search. As for iffy power, try a UPS. You may have to pay $100 or so, but it's well worth it.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Posted by Window:<BR><B><BR>The flood came last night. I have been pushing it back since I found out. I was so scared that when it came it wouldn't go away. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>There is a grief process involved here, just like losing a loved one who died. It's normal, but if it gets too bad antidepressants may be in order. The process is normal, though, and you have to feel the grief to get through it.<P>As for the Mars/Venus stuff, I've never read it but it sounds like it can be very helpful to someone needing to understand their spouse better. Be wary though of too many male/female stereotypes. The differences tend to relate to personality types which may not always go by male/female breakdowns. The MBTI (Myers Briggs Type Inventory) approach has been helpful to many people who post on the EN forum. A good web site that you might check out is <A HREF="http://www.personalitytype.com" TARGET=_blank>here</A>.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Posted by Windancer:<BR><B><BR>The idea that a spouse must go away for recreational purposes on a regular basis without his/her mate is just an invitation for problems!<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>In fact Dr. Harley advocates that spouses find activities that they can enjoy together, so that they can be each other's primary recreational companions. His explanation is that being with someone when we're having a good time builds love for them. He has a more detailed explanation in one of the articles you can find by following the links from the main MarriageBuilders site.<P>Anyway, I don't often go to the JFO forum, but happened to see this thread and read it. Hope some of this is helpful.<P>Steve

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by StillHers:<P>>>As for the Mars/Venus stuff, I've never read it but it sounds like it can be very helpful to someone needing to understand their spouse better. Be wary though of too many male/female stereotypes. The differences tend to relate to personality types which may not always go by male/female breakdowns. The MBTI (Myers Briggs Type Inventory) approach has been helpful to many people who post on the EN forum. A good web site that you might check out is <A HREF="http://www.personalitytype.com" TARGET=_blank>here</A>.>>><P>Hi, Steve!<BR>Many thanks for your post here, and especially for the link you suggested. I visited that site and even took the Personality Type Test. It was fascinating reading and made a lot of sense. What's notable is that when I put in info about my H, I discovered that he and I are very opposite. I'm going to have to do a lot more reading and research, I think!<BR>__________________________________________<BR>>><BR>_____________________________________<BR>Steve, what is the JFO forum? Please let me know, ok? Many thanks again for your post and please do come back here often.<P>Hugs and very best wishes,<BR>Winny<P><p>[This message has been edited by Windancer (edited April 07, 2001).]

Thank you Steve and Winny:<P>Yes, you are right, going away alone for recreational fun is not conducive to a good relationship. I think I may be getting this through to my husband, if not at least I know it's not good for me and I can take the steps I need to protect myself.<P>He is now making comments such as, "We can get away this weekend when you are off work etc. " as opposed to "I need to get away". One day at a time. I will soon see what he is capable of.<P>I have found the MOST FASCINATING book, it's called The Monogamy Myth written by Peggy Vaughan. I had seen posts commenting on this book but personally I thought the woman had a few loose screws. Her husband had been involved in nearly 15 affairs in a 7 year period. Apparantly none since they worked things out. Anyway, the book is ME. Everything I have been going through. Everything my husband has been saying, for example, "The affair had nothing to do with you" I could NOT understand how he could say that, it explains it in the book.<P>It even had information about wanting to meet the other woman. It was fascinating, exactly my reasons for doing so. It also explains the difference between how a man and a woman perceive infidelity. <P>Honesty and open communication is the KEY to making a marriage work according to this author. With complete honesty the wayward spouse lets his partner know of his deep inner feelings etc. this helps to ward off the possibility of another affair. <P>I have not read the entire book yet, my husband wants he and I to read it together. A GOOD sign for sure! I think he is just as confused as I am. If you guys get time it is really a good eye opener.<P>Steve:<P>Thank you for the info on how to solve my computer problem.

<B>Windancer</B>,<P>JFO was just an abbreviation for Just Found Out, EN for Emotional Needs.<P>Your question reminds me that there are an awful lot of acronyms, but they do come in handy if you get tired of typing. A good link for acronyms is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000557.html" TARGET=_blank>here</A>. It may be helpful.<P>Anyway, just had a quick minute...I need to get ready to go to my son's ballgame.<P>Steve<P><BR>

I'm back and I'm better today. We've had a good weekend. I feel so wonderful when we're together. It's when he's gone that I sink so deep.<P>I guess I should be thankful that my H gets away by going golfing for 4-5 hours. I don't see why your H has to go so far away for his bike. I would think that he could go away for a half of a day or something logical like that. My H is golfing right now, but he promised to come home and spend the whole evening being by my side. <P>He realizes how insecure I am right now and is willing to do what it takes to make me feel better. He knows that it is when he is gone that I start to get depressed. I am back on the antidepressents now, though. He is helping me remember to take them. <P>We had a really good talk Fri when he came home early from work. We took the EN test. I really explained to him about meeting my need for Affection. He has always been good about bringing me gifts, hugging me, kissing me, etc., but he didn't understand that when I am upset I don't necessarily want an answer to my problem. I just want to be held. I can literally feel the stress leave my body when he puts his arms around me and kisses the top of my head. <P>I am going to check out that site, Steve. Thanks for the info. I looked at the recovery forum the other day. I don't think I am ready for that yet. The pain is still so raw. <P>Take care all. I have to get a nap. Thanks as always for the replies and friendship you offer me. <P>Love,<BR>Window<P>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by window:<BR>[B]I'm back and I'm better today. We've had a good weekend. I feel so wonderful when we're together. It's when he's gone that I sink so deep.<P>HIya, Window!<BR>That is such good news!! So happy for you and hoping that your problems will soon be over.<P>K, how are you doing? I haven't written here either in a few days. Not much new to tell--every day is different around here. My H has a lot on his mind (job pressures), and his moods vary from very outgoing to being a clam again. It is so hard to really know what to do or say, so I'm just lying low for a while and assuming nothing any more. <P>Here's a thought: we've been through a LOT of pressure over the recent past and most of it was financial pressure. I noted that IF he stepped outside of our marriage vows, it was during this time. It hit me that financial troubles really do hit a man below the belt and literally rock his whole world. From what I've been reading, a man defines himself by his success and if this is true, then I can understand why his ego needed some boosting. This does not excuse cheating on a spouse, but it is a reason that makes some sense to me. That means that it was not necessarily something I did or didn't do that caused his behavior, and to me, that's a relief of sorts.<P>Just tossing out an idea here...what do you all think about it? I'd love to know others' thoughts on this.<P>Wishing you all a good day and miss seeing your posts!<BR>Luv,<BR>Winny

I have miss ya'll, too! My H asked how you both were last night and I had to tell him that I hadn't heard lately. Sometimes no news is good news, though.<P>Winny, I agree that oftentimes men feel defined by their financial status. When they don't feel adequate in that area they may seek reassurance elsewhere, I guess. I definitely don't think it is a reason for an A. I pretty much can't think of one good reason for an A!!!! I must say, though, that it was almost exactly 1 month after I started babysitting my 2 extra kids that my H started his EA. He wanted me to have a steady income and I got it. I no longer had as much time to do little things for him and I guess that triggered this. Sometimes it's true, we should be careful what we wish for. To me the extra $ is not worth what he did to me! <P>K9, I have seen you posting around here and there. You sound like you're not doing so great, Sweetie. Let us know what is going on with you. I worry about both of you.<P>I am still doing well. Right now I am just battling the insecurity I feel when I am away from my H. I can't stand being away from him. It's not that I don't trust him. I think it is close to panic I feel when we are apart from eachother. He is still being pretty supportive.<P>Take care, girls!<BR>Love,<BR>Window

[QUOTE]Originally posted by window:<BR>[B]I am still doing well. Right now I am just battling the insecurity I feel when I am away from my H. I can't stand being away from him. It's not that I don't trust him. I think it is close to panic I feel when we are apart from eachother. He is still being pretty supportive.<P>Take care, girls!<BR>Love,<BR>Window<P>Hey, Window!<BR>I was so happy to see your post here today!! I know just what you mean by feeling insecure when apart from our H's. (by the way, a resounding "hello!" to that hubby of yours! How nice of him to ask about us! Thank you!) I am getting better in that area, Window, but it's not as easy as one might think. With my H, his job entails a lot of travel and being away from home for many, many hours each day. He works the equivilent of double shifts, and I know that he is truly working. We need the $$ so badly and now that he is making it, things are easing up a bit financially.<P>However, we've been hurt in a place that no other could hurt us quite the same. I suspect it's going to take lots and lots of time to recover from this hurt, and in time we will learn to trust again. All I know right now is that my whole attitude has softened towards my H and I've been more and more conscious and respectful of his feelings. I'm sorry to say that in the past, it wasn't always this way with me but that happens when one becomes chronically ill with a painful disease. Just one of the many pitfalls, I guess.<P>Good luck to the both of you and may you have a wonderful evening!<P>K...I'm hoping we hear a note or two from you real soon. I know I speak for Window, too, when I say we really do care about you. Please let us know how you're doing.<P>Love to all of you!<BR>Winny

Winny and Window:<P>Thank you so much for your concern, I have been bouncing around lately going into different topics. I was wanting feedback on people in recovery as to whether "Once a cheater, always a cheater".<P>It all boils down to the individuals involved and that is life in general, I suppose. My state of mind these days? Up one, down the next. I still have no idea what I want. One minute I feel love and want it to work out. The next, I feel hatred and anger and want to make plans to go on with my life. <P>I did go to my Medical Doctor today, he wanted me to try Zantac before I tried anything else. He said I have been depressed for such a length of time my reserves of Seratonin were very low. This coupled with the double whammy of hysterectomy and affair basically did a number on me.<P>I have been so busy lately, going back to work and trying to deal with everyday chores makes my day short. I will try to make it a point to write in the morning before work. <P>Thank you both for your concerns, it sounds as if the high tide is passing for all three of us. We are starting to look at things objectively. Life has to go on. One way or another.<P>Take care<BR>Love ya

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by k9love:<BR><B>Winny and Window:<P>Thank you so much for your concern, I have been bouncing around lately going into different topics. I was wanting feedback on people in recovery as to whether "Once a cheater, always a cheater".<P>It all boils down to the individuals involved and that is life in general, I suppose. My state of mind these days? Up one, down the next. I still have no idea what I want. One minute I feel love and want it to work out. The next, I feel hatred and anger and want to make plans to go on with my life. <P>I did go to my Medical Doctor today, he wanted me to try Zantac before I tried anything else. He said I have been depressed for such a length of time my reserves of Seratonin were very low. This coupled with the double whammy of hysterectomy and affair basically did a number on me.<P>I have been so busy lately, going back to work and trying to deal with everyday chores makes my day short. I will try to make it a point to write in the morning before work. <P>Thank you both for your concerns, it sounds as if the high tide is passing for all three of us. We are starting to look at things objectively. Life has to go on. One way or another.<P>Take care<BR>Love ya</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>HI, K!<BR>Glad to hear from you! I love what you said about us starting to look at things objectively because that's what I feel, too. Wow...it does take quite a while for that first shock to calm down, doesn't it? It's good that you are working and keeping busy. Keeping our minds active is a great way to help us through. You certainly have been through the mill, sweet K, with your surgery and all and then to have marital troubles on top of it all. God bless you and keep you strong. Just hang in there and know that better days are ahead. From a lot of the posts I've read "in recovery" and other forums here, it seems that what my mom always told me is true: if something doesn't kill you, it will only make you stronger. <P>By the way, have a very happy holiday, K. Thinking of you and praying for you, too...<BR>Hugs,<BR>Winny

Hi Ladies,<P>It sounds like we are all doing a little better. I understand the up and down, though. I am trying so hard to stay positive. I am glad you are both doing as well as can be expected.<P>I have been so busy this week. Easter is my oldest's 4th b-day and we are having a party for him tomorrow. Not only am I babysitting for 14 hours today, but I am trying to prepare for the party. No stress on me! <P>I blew up my H last night out of sheer stress. We wanted the party to be outside and we are trying to clean up the back yard as well as the house. H got a new motorcycle yesterday (much to my dismay) and he was sitting down reading the manual. I was busting my rear end cleaning stuff and I couldn't help yelling at him. I had been up since 5:30 a.m. and missed 3 hours of cleaning while I took him to get his bike. He got mad for a few minutes and then hugged me and told me to calm down and go to bed. I apologized profusely for being ugly and I hope that I didn't lose too many love units. <P>I guess I don't feel up to so many people at my house this year. You only turn 4 once and I feel like I cannot not have this party for my son. Mentally, I am not up to par. I feel drained. Oh well. It's 3 hours and then it will be over. Of course, my MIL will be spending the night to celebrate Easter with us. My H and I may try to get away for a little while Sat. afternoon while MIL watches the boys. That will probably help me.<P>I hope you both have a wonderful Easter. I guess it will be our first holiday OW free! Take care!<P>Love,<BR>Window

Window and Winny:<P>Greetings, good to hear from the two of you. I want to say thank you both so much for being there for me at the onset of this horrible ordeal. Yes, we have survived it, yes we are sounding like life is going on. <P>We are now dealing with other issues, besides the pain, and realize that marriage is tough at the best of times. Now we can come back here venting knowing life is going on.<P>Window, you said something about your H getting a bike. What are his intentions with it? Are you going to be part of his enjoyment with it? In meeting his need for recreational activities you will need to be a part of what he is doing. <P>When my H first brought his home I threw a fit. I could not understand for the life of me how anyone could spend nearly 20,000 on something that had two wheels and could not carry groceries. He has held resentment toward me for my initial feelings. I know this because he brought up the subject when he had OW and I on the phone.<P>I have changed my attitude since that time because I truly enjoyed the activities we did together on the bike. As I said he eventually bought me my own. Now I ride my own.<P>He used his bike as his "lure" for the OW. When he met her he asked her to go "riding" to see the countryside. Had he been in his pickup truck I doubt he would have suceeded. I harbor great resentment toward the fact that he had her on "our" bike. He had it set up for me with special pegs for my feet etc. When he began his A in Sept. I had not been on it with him, since then I have not gotten on with him on it at all. He is buying and selling other bikes and I will go on another, but not his. <P>I know this angers him but hey, Its how I feel. Gotta go

K9, I made it quite clear that no women were to ever ride his bike besides me. He said no way would he let someone else ride. His reasoning for the bike? Entertainment, more economical to drive to work, his best friends have them, blah, blah, blah. I am resentful to him about it because it obviously goes against "The Policy of Joint Agreement." <P>His is upset because I have not been very enthusiastic about it. I asked him why he thought I would be enthusiastic when I have maintained the same position all along. My position is that it is irresponsible to have something so dangerous while we have minor children. When the kids turn 18, let's get one, but not now. What happens if we are both killed on it? <P>I feel that I come for a pretty knowledgeable background concerning bikes. I am the youngest of 5 children by 9 yrs. My Mom and Dad rode bikes cross country, my brother, sister, and Dad rode dirt bikes, and my brother raced motor-cross. My Mom had reconstructive surgery on her knee from an accident when I was 4, my brother and sister always had broken somethings. All of my memories of my brother (he died when I was 4, almost 5) are of him in a cast of some kind. When I was 18, my boyfriend had a motorcycle. He flew off the back of it one day and skid 50 ft. on his face (no helmet). He had reconstructive surgery on his face. So, I feel that I have plenty of info to back up my feelings. I love motorcycles. I just don't feel that it is safe with 2 little boys. We cannot even agree on who would take them in the event of our deaths. <P>So, despite my adverse feelings, I plan on participating in activities on it just to save our marriage. I feel like a hypocrite doing it and I pray that we will be safe. I made it clear that no rallies would ever be attended w/out me. There is one down in Austin next month that he wants us to attend. I have become a little bit prissy (I admit it) in my old age (of 30). I think I will feel a little out of place there. I don't go far w/out all of my makeup and hair accessories. I am sure you are laughing. My H said we would probably need a car to follow us down there to carry all of my stuff. <P>I remembered that your H met the OW on or with his bike and I told my H that. That is why I made the rule that no women could ride on the back with him. Oh! The money thing I understand. He complains all of the time about $ and then went and bought this expensive toy. I wanted a camper that we could take trips in with or without the kids. Thankfully he didn't get a Harley, so it wasn't as much as your H's, but still expensive.<P>Now that my son's party is over, I have been thinking about the EA more again. I guess I didn't have time while I was preoccupied with the party. I haven't been in the best mood. I don't really feel like crying anymore. It just feels like a deep depression.<P>Gotta run. I hope you both had a great Easter.<P>Love,<BR>Window

Window:<P>You want to know something ironic? I too told my husband, under NO circumstances was another female to ever get on the back of his bike with him. (excluding my daughter and friends I trust).<P>Well, that is how he managed to nab little miss no morals. This is the reason I am so adamant about NOT wanting to get back on his bike. <P>You are very right to be concerned aabout your husband's timing. I too felt timing was off. Our children are older so my concern was based more on the fact that only two can ride the bike at any given time and "family" time would be interrupted, well it certainly was. Now, it seems that his "freedom" on the back of it means more than anything.<P>There is a rally in Luckenbach this next weekend. Because it is so far and I have to work Friday my H should not go. Let's see what happens. He can make arrangments to wait until I get off to go to these things or something is going to break. Probably my willingness to work things out.<P>My son also Motorcross races, he's been in the emergency room twice this year alone, once when my H was with the OW. God that made me sooooo furious. He has also broken appendages and been in many casts. He has no desire to stop racing though. We had a race two weekends ago and the wind was so bad he was at least 15 feet in the air when a gust caught him, to make a long story short, crash.<P>Gotta go, catch ya later

I'm back, anyway, about the Rallies, you will find such a diverse age of people there you will not feel out of place due to that I assure you.<P>As far as makeup and hair, hey we've all been there, I am trying to find a cordless curling iron because seldom do you find the comforts of electricity. Especially if camping. As far as makeup, you can always find room for that. <P>What rally is next month? I have family that lives in the Austin area, so if school is out we may head that way ourselves.<P>Go girl!!! I am so proud that you told him no rallies without you. I pray my husband uses his common sense and makes the right choice about this. I have been to these and I will assure you there are PLENTY of half naked women running around to entince even the saintliest of saints. It took a great deal of changing on my part to feel comfortable at these places. I enjoy the riding, the sightseeing, (not the bodies mind you but the countryside) and the friendly people. You will meet some of the most beautiful down to earth people at these places. They come from ALL walks of life.<P>You certainly do have experience in the world of bikes. I understand exactly what you are saying though as far as something happening and your children being alone. The two large rallies we attended last year both had fatalities. It happens, there are sooo many people and there is a lot of drinking and driving going on. You really need to be an experienced rider to drive in these.<P>Do you live in a large city? I don't only about 22,000 people so it's fairly safe to ride in town here. Note I said fairly, there's always that one person who is not watching and could run over you.<P>Last week we had two friends alone who laid their bikes down because someone pulled in front of them. Two were sent to the hospital, the other ones ok.