<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lostandfound:<BR><B>On Steve's point about the three stages of marriage and Conflict - I need some clarification on this one. I don't know thinking back that my H has ever been in the intimacy or conflict state. Looking back over the years, I have always been the one doing the arguing, not him. He just sits there and does not respond much. His only arguing comes in the form of the defense that he is not doing anything. I am not sure that this is what conflict really is. If that is the case, then my H has been in withdrawal since right after we got married. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm not really sure what the answer is here. Perhaps he goes through the stages and doesn't show it or maybe some people don't. I think, however, that this would not be normal.<P>Maybe he is a conflict avoider--is he always like that with others also? Some people have major FOO issues which keep them from expressing emotion or being able to confront others.<P>Such issues as major FOO disfunctionality, mental health disorders, and addictions (which Dr. Harley treats as affair as) can prevent recovery. However, I don't think it is good to assume that this will be the case until one has at least read all the concepts and articles on the main site and spent at least a few months in a good Plan A.<P>I don't have time to say any more tonight. I'm sorry that I can't shed a lot of light here.<P>Steve<BR>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lostandfound:<BR>[B]Hi all,<P>Yes even as you all were posting your replies I was inlabor having a beautiful 7 lb 2 oz girl. Victoria Ashland on April 26th. <P>Dear Len,<BR>Congrats on that lovely baby girl!! It's been a while since I've posted here and feel bad that I missed out on your wonderful event (I would have sent my best wishes much sooner!), but please know that I am very happy for you.<P>I'm so sorry that your H is still so closed-off to you. Maybe I am not interpreting it correctly, but that's what it reminds me of because my H is pretty much the same way. So, I call it being 'closed off' from me. I guess you can call it withdrawl and I tend to agree w/ Steve's comments on the FOO issues. Some people just do not meet conflict head-on, and there doesn't seem to be much to do about it.<P>Len, you mentioned dealing with anger. Here is my own experience, six months post-D day, or what I might more correctly call WakeUp Day:<P>I have entered into a whole new realm now. My anger has cooled off much like a pot of boiling water that has been removed or pushed a bit off of the hot burner. It's there, simmering, but not quite as bad or as fierce as it was even just a month ago. Something happened to me one day and I can't quite explain it, but it happened after we had a real open talk with each other. Some of the things he said to me hurt me so deeply that I just plain gave up. I figured there was no way to change his opinion or mind, so why bother? Much of the stuff he said was based on things that happened in our married life from years and years ago, and of course, all slanted in his favor. A lot of it was just plain wrong--little basis in reality and mostly just his opinion. But, that's what hit me: it was HIS opinion. Trying to argue did nothing but only made him more obstinate, stick to his guns more. I KNOW what the truth was then as well as now, so why argue? I had been trying Plan A (meeting his emotional needs), and finally he did admit a "camaraderie" with another female, but swore that was all there was to it. I gathered the topic was closed after that as he did not want to talk about it any more. <P>Well, the darndest thing happened next. Out of the blue and totally unsocilited by me or anyone else, I heard from someone from my past. I was single then but he was not (which I did not know until it was almost too late), and I broke off all communications with him. Now, he is divorced (or so he says) and just wanted to touch base with me and see how I was doing. I have to admit, memories of his smile and all that came to the surface and for a moment in time, I was tempted. But....now is NOT the time for me to get involved with anyone else. Like I said in another post, finish one relationship before you start another. However....it was nice to know that someone thought about me, but the timing is all wrong. What it DID do was to make me stop and think about my H and what happened between us. I loved and trusted that man completely with a love so deep that life without him was not imaginable. Now, after being kept at arm's length for so long (a year, in fact)emotionally and sexually, something in me has changed. Is this what Dr. Harley refers to as withdrawl?? Or, is this some stage or other that betrayed spouses go through? I am trying to understand why I don't have the same intensity of anger, fear, loss of self esteem and all those ugly emotions and feelings that I had as recently as just a month ago. We are fighting less and talking more, but let's face it: his job keeps him away about 99% of the time, so....???? Who is here for me to have any relationship WITH? Out of an entire week, we get to spend one day together, if that, for a grand total of perhaps 18 to 24 hours (half of that is spent sleeping!). <P>Anyone have any ideas here? Againg, Len, enjoy that precious bundle from heaven and Window and K, hope all is going better for you both now, too.<BR>Love to all.....<BR>Winny

Windancer and Window:<P>Sorry to have been gone so long, I've been in the recovery post for the past week or so. Not as nice as talking to you two though.<P>I have a question that needs an answer. I will be going out of town with my mother next month for a planned vacation. My husband casually mentioned that it would be a good time for the "guys" to get away. This of course means him and a few friends.<P>During his A he would lead me to believe that someone had plans to go with him out of town but at the last minute changed their mind and he'd go by himself.<P>I feel dread, fear and suspicion over his proposed trip. Mine will be very well chaperonned, my god I will be with my mother. He knows this.<P>HOW do I go about hiring a private investigator? I am not crazy, nor am I being ridiculous. Contrare to what I have read on other posts. I NEED to know that given the opportunity, me out of town hundreds of miles away, my husband will not try to go back and see the OW. Or see any other woman for that matter.<P>No, I do not trust him. Plain and simple, I have no reason to. This will be the first time he's been away from me since discovery. It will be the first chance for him to show me what he will do. <P>The idea of a PI is for my own peace of mind. If my husband means everything he has said over the past few months there should be nothing going on. But, if he is lying like he did during the A to get what he wants, I need to know. <P>Does anyone know the cost? At this point in time it matters little to me, knowing the truth is worth whatever it takes.<P>Hope all is well for the both of you.

Hi,<BR>This is my first time to post a message on the net. Let me get right to it. My wife of 7 years who was diag. as having bi-polar 5 years ago, decided to have an affair on me last week. SHe had told me two months ago that she did not feel that her medicine was working like it should and two weeks ago she woke up in her sleep her voices. She tells me out of the blue that she does not love me as a husband anymore just as a best friend. She told me that she feels empty inside and that she needs to find herself. I am the only man that she has been with besides when she was sexualy abused by her cousin when she was 7 and a man that she had sex with on a one night stand after we had a fight when we were dating. <BR>She met this current man on the internet three weeks ago and met him last week. When I kicked her out of the house she went three day with out talking to her two children who two days prior where her life. She told me 24 hrs before she met this person that she was so in love with me and could not imagine not being married. <P>Am I looking at her bi-polar being at the root of her current behavior or is our marriage just over<BR>Thanks Ryan<P>------------------<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jayhawk:<BR><B>Hi,<BR>She told me 24 hrs before she met this person that she was so in love with me and could not imagine not being married. <P>Am I looking at her bi-polar being at the root of her current behavior or is our marriage just over<BR>Thanks Ryan<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>HI, Ryan and welcome to this thread,<P>I am not a medical expert by any means, but I do have a daughter who is bipolar so know what you must go through from time to time. If your W was hearing voices again just before this sudden change in personality, then perhaps she needs to be reevaluated by her doctor. She might need a change in med's or dosage. We go through this a lot with my D, and with this strange disorder, there is just no way to predict what will or can happen. I have learned, however, that when symptoms return, there is almost always a crisis on the horizon. To ignore these symptoms is like playing with fire, so please, try to convince her to see her dr. Don't forget, too, that with females, we are constantly battling hormone level changes, so that added in with psychotropic medications can make for some very interesting episodes.<P>Good luck, please keep us posted. You'll find lots of great people here who really do care!<P>Hugs,<BR>Winny

[QUOTE]Originally posted by k9love:<BR>[B]Windancer and Window:<P>The idea of a PI is for my own peace of mind. If my husband means everything he has said over the past few months there should be nothing going on. But, if he is lying like he did during the A to get what he wants, I need to know. <P>Does anyone know the cost? At this point in time it matters little to me, knowing the truth is worth whatever it takes.<P>Hope all is well for the both of you.<P>Hi, K!<BR>First off, this is "me", Windancer (Winny). Something went crazy with my name and password here this morning, so I had to change it. It just wouldn't let my post go through, so now I am "Winnytoo."<P>K, I also would like to hire a PI very soon. They are expensive depending on lots of variables. In my case, since my H travels so much, it would cost me a fortune to have a full week's worth, so I'm going to opt for a weekend (or two or three, spread out over time). Like you, I just can't take the worrying and anxiety any longer. It's better to know for sure than to go on wondering, fearing and being in the dark, I think. <P>Just when I think things are starting to look good again, or what passes for 'good' now, something strange happens and just blows my mind back into what I've started to call the Dark Ages. For example, my mom is very ill and in the hospital. He made the time specifically to be with us on Mother's Day, and he really treated her special. One of the gifts he gave her was a stuffed animal, all decked out in a gift bag with this huge balloon that said, "I love you." Now, call me silly, but for some reason, the idea struck me that this was something that was given to HIM, let's say around Valentine's Day. I mean, isn't it strange that on Mother's Day, the words on the balloon didn't say "Happy Mothers Day?" I asked him where he got it and in a very stern voice he just said, "At the store!" It was his attitude when he answered me that got me. I mean, I've been in every store in the area this past week and didn't see anything that didn't recognize Mothers Day specifically.<P>See what I mean? This could be totally innocent, but the doubt and worry it is causing me just ruined what started out to be a pretty good day for me. Now, I won't see him for a whole week again so I have all these days and nights to myself to sit and wonder and worry. What gets me is that I am in a position of being trustful of him, and what if he isn't deserving of that trust? I would feel like the world's biggest horse's patoot, and I'm tired of the negative feelings! Right now, I have to concentrate on my mother and get her well enough to come home. Trying to cope with a spouse who may or may not be wandering is just too much. <P>Well, hope all goes better for you this week, K. Has anyone heard from Window? Hope she is doing ok, too. Steve..if you are popping in from time to time, hi to you, too!<P>Hugs to all,<BR>Winny

Winny, I saw Window on another post, sounds as if things are still up and down for her. <P>Thank you for understanding my need to know. I too will not let him treat me like a horses patoo either.<P>As far as a balloon that says I love You, We have a man in town who brings balloons, for all ocassions into our store. Some say Happy Mother's day, others Happy B-Day and still others, I love you.<P>I can't say in your case, but these are available where we live. Telling you the name of the store may have been a good idea for him. Too bad you didn't sound suspicous because now he'll more than likely not say. At least you could have checked.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by k9love:<BR><B>Winny, I saw Window on another post, sounds as if things are still up and down for her. <P>Thank you for understanding my need to know. I too will not let him treat me like a horses patoo either.<P>As far as a balloon that says I love You, We have a man in town who brings balloons, for all ocassions into our store. Some say Happy Mother's day, others Happy B-Day and still others, I love you.<P>I can't say in your case, but these are available where we live. Telling you the name of the store may have been a good idea for him. Too bad you didn't sound suspicous because now he'll more than likely not say. At least you could have checked.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>HI, K!!<BR>Yep, you're right. When I asked him, my voice was too conversational, not enough 'oomph' to it. However, I did notice a LOT of street vendors selling all kinds of things from bouquets to stuffed animals, etc. Life is so different here in the big city, compared to the tiny 'burg we used to live in. I've never seen that before--so, I just have to let this one go, I think.<P>BTW, he has been absolutely wonderful during my mom's illness. If I didn't mention it before (hard to recall what I posted before), my mom is terminally ill but at the moment is doing OK and holding her own. H has been so supportive that it has totally amazed me and in some strange way, it is bringing him closer to me. <P>I almost passed out the other day: he came home from his job in the middle of the week just to show some emotional support! He is working about 3 hours away--much too far to commute each day, given the fact that he works about 16 hours each day. Anyway, he was so much like his old self that I began to relax a bit, and believe it or not, we had a wonderful evening (complete with love making in the bargain! This is the First TIme in nearly a year that he's touched me without my asking, suggesting, etc.). K, it's almost too much to hope for, but I sense that something has happened within him and whatever it is, he is looking at me once again as a person, a woman and his mate. Wow! Do you think Plan A could really, really work this fast?? It's especially difficult because he has no clue about the MB, or Plan A or any of it. I'm doing this on my own. <P>Well, hope all is going better for you, dear K. This is one long and difficult road we are traveling, huh? Glad to hear Window is still posting, too.<P>Take care..please do keep in touch!<BR>Luv ya,<BR>Winny<p>[This message has been edited by Winnytoo (edited May 18, 2001).]

Winny:<P>FANTASTIC! I am so happy for you. <P>Found an interesting post from someone on General Questions. They said they had hired a PI, not to follow, but to give a lie detector test. This may be what I need for peace of mind. I am a basketcase. Maybe this will be what I need to start rebuilding what was lost.<P>Opinion?

Hi K and Winny,<P>Thanks for worrying about me. I hardly post at all now. I vented a little last week. Things are going ok today. I say today, because as you both know it is a day to day thing. H and I had a fight this a little while ago, but he was super sweet when making up. He could see how upset he made me and he took me in his arms and hugged me. He said he was sorry he upset me so much. He is off to the Colonial golf tournament for the day and I know he didn't want to know that I was angry with him all day.<P>K, I saw your thread in GQII and in P/C about the PI. Will your H agree to a Lie Detector test? I am sure that a PI would be much more expensive, but I guess I would rather have one if I still really doubted him. Can't some people beat the test? If he failed couldn't he say that he was nervous and that was why he didn't pass? Seems like it would be harder for him to dispute pictures. IMHO, you would feel better with someone following him. You have an appt. tomorrow, though, right? Let us know what happens.<P>Winny, I don't think I understand the balloon thing. Do you think your H gave your mom a balloon that the OW gave him a few months ago? Am I understanding that correctly? I am going to assume that that is the case. The balloon would not have lasted that long. The helium would be gone and I don't think you can refill them. It sounds strange that he chose an "I Love You" balloon for your Mom, but maybe he really wants her to know that he does love her, especially in her condition. (?) <P>My 4 yr old is sick today (102.5 fever), my golden retriever has heartworms, and my Australian shepherd got spayed 2 days ago. So I should probably run and take care of everyone. The baby is crying, too. <P>I actually have hours where I don't think about the OW, though. I think that is the best thing! All of the other things are the normalacy of life. If I can forget for periods of time that another woman threatened that normalcy, than I guess I must be doing a little better. I hope that my 2 chat friends are doing ok. I am sorry I don't post much anymore. It just gets painful reading about everyone's pain. I have to take breaks from it.<P>Take care, girls.<P>Love,<BR>Window<BR>

Window:<P>Glad to hear from you. Thanks for your input, you know you are probably right. In truth if he failed a certain part of the test he still would not admit what he's done. <P>When it rains at your house it pours doesn't it? So typical of daily life though, if ten things don't go wrong in a day it's not normal.<P>Good to hear from you. You are right about needing to get away from the forum every now and then. It has been a blessing but life does need to go on.<P>Take care<P>Love ya

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by k9love:<BR><B>Winny:<P>FANTASTIC! I am so happy for you. <P>Found an interesting post from someone on General Questions. They said they had hired a PI, not to follow, but to give a lie detector test. This may be what I need for peace of mind. I am a basketcase. Maybe this will be what I need to start rebuilding what was lost.<P>Opinion?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi, K and Window!<BR>Ok, gals..that was LAST week, now for this week, please read my post at <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/003157.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/003157.html</A> <P>It's weird how things can so totally change in so little time, but I've discovered that they can and DO change. I've come to the conclusion that his being nice was just a cover, a kind of truce for now. Once it looked like I was going to get some loving support from a family member (my daughter), all hell broke loose. It has to do with control, ladies. My H is a control freak--always has been, always will be. I've tried to look the other way and over the years have actually made excuses for him, while all those around us knew the real score. Remember--we now live about 200 miles away from kith and kin, so I'm a lone duck here in the big city. A visit from my daughter just pushed him completely over the top, and I found out why (read that post..you'll see what I mean). <P>Last night, we had a long talk and he admitted that:<BR>1. it's over (No, not his A..our marriage. Let's face it, it's not fun anymore. see reason 4)<BR>2. he wants a crack at his own life now<BR>3. he is tired of being my 'meal ticket'<BR>4. he doesn't want the responsibility of a spouse who is physically challenged any more (and was actually indignant about it! "You don't really expect ME to have to put up with your illness for the rest of MY life, too, do you??")<BR>5. there is no "us"<BR>6. while he doesn't 'have time' for an A, he did, however, talk on the phone a few times with the OW in the past year (remember: when I first discovered the now infamous love letter, which he denied ever even seeing, he changed his story at least twice about the contact with OW) NOW, he admits to 'a few times.'<BR>7. he wants ME, who has physical problems (I walk with crutches), to pack up myself and my ill mother (in hospital right now) and go back to our former hometown, courtesy of mom's savings account. The last time we moved, which was only 8 months ago to our new home and beginning, it cost us over three thousand dollars! <BR>8. wants me to 'let him go.'<P>My response: "Fine...go." Now, WILL he actually go? It's anybody's guess, but I am calling my atty. this morning for a long over-due appointment. I'm tired of his crap, the lies, the deceit and the manipulation. I detest the way he's made me feel about myself, but as God is my witness, I will NOT let this man destroy my life. In fact, I have plans of returning to school to get my RN. Even nurses can walk with a crutch or two and go into many different fields and areas of medicine. <P>Ohh..by the way...did I tell you both about my latest "find"? How about his fav. sports shirt, stuffed on a hangar in the closet and covered in long, black straight hair!!?? His response: "I have no clue where that came from. " In case I didn't mention it, the OW has--you guessed it!---long, straight black hair. She obviously needs a better shampoo because she sheds like a dog! How appropriate! <P>I hope you both are having a much better time lately than I am, gals. As for the PI, I say K, go for it. Window, I was away from the boards for a while, too, and that's OK. We need a break now and then from the pain, as you said. But, when the flames are fanned again, oh what a welcome spot this place is! <P>Love to you both...keep in touch!<BR>Winny<P><p>[This message has been edited by Winnytoo (edited May 21, 2001).]